So, can we just ban damage meters already.

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Originally Posted by Misutoraru

and how do we stop it?
by putting a control on said tool
i am sorry if you are on console, but the current dont ask, dont tell rule is just about the middle ground we need, not any further

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And how is that working out? People are still harassing others and of course some people are still using parsers in silence to better them selves. In addition, the ps4 users cant even use the information at all. This is no "middle ground." This is SE allowing pc players to have an advantage over ps4 players WHILE harassment is still as prevalent as ever because some people are willingly, and illogically gimping their selves out of fear. If SE bans people with poor behaviour or not, that still doesnt change the fact that ps4 players are getting the shaft. Whether ps4 players get a parser or not. You will still play with pc players who parse and thats fact.

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Originally Posted by Misutoraru

i am sorry if you are on console..

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Exactly.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Yeah, and I think he was talking about level 50 and below dungeons too. Honestly, thinking about it, it is kind of ridiculous. Why would anybody even be using a parser in that kind of content? :confused:

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To get a chuckle out of how OP DNC's AoE moves are... obviously. :D

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Originally Posted by Komarimono

You're more then free to search his post history unless he deleted it. Myself and others called him out on it, especially since I may have very well been the person who dismissed them from group since the healer(which is not DPS related) Kept dying over and over to simple mechanics that other sprouts were doing fine with. But I simply said they were not ready for this dungeon yet if they can't avoid simple damage before removing them.

He himself wanted to ban all parsing though, and kept trying to defend his stance over and over, blaming the tool on a rather aggressive mode I may add. Most of the posts went to end game, since that's where you see the parsing being done. Sure some are lazy and keep it running for roulette's and the like, but 99% don't care about someones DPS is what we all were saying.

He was implying it was a constant thing in low level dungeons and leveling groups, which in my hundreds of runs I've not seen a single mention of it, even when doing trial roulette's. Most complaints is people not doing mechanics or leeching by not doing anything, which you don't need a parser to know anyway.

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Originally Posted by Komarimono

Ya know, it just dawned on me... I had kicked a healer a few days ago from group, since called them out for walking in circles and dying all the time. Just noticed OP is in the same data center as me, wonder if my kicking them led to this thread lol.

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You mean this? You saying you're both in the same datacenter and you booted a healer a few days ago LOL?

Let me wait for someone else on your datacenter to post about being a dps that clapped as you did it now. I don't see anything else calling him out with proof in here.

As for the op getting progressively more done with the replies in this thread:

The op originally asked for them to be left out of low level dungeons. This thread has become what it has because people with parsers needed something to be offended at. The replies stopped being about low content on what, page 2? I'd have been fed up with a lot of the replies in here before page 15 and started sniping back if I was him as well.

Do I think it's ok that the op is snappishly aggressive further in? No, but I've seen 0 posts addressing players talking about snowflakes, calling him a nice guy type, or the other callous remarks. Odd, if aggression is such a huge deal. Courtesy goes two ways, I don't understand why you would expect it to be shown at this point when so little was recieved?

It might not be every party in low level dungeons, but it most certainly happens in them. I keep seeing the 'I didnt see it, it can't be true of my beloved ACT!' defense. I truly hope it's less than 1/100 runs. Even 1/5000 would be too often, because it should not happen at all. That said, I don't think we should remove it, just accept that trolls and rude players are going to be just that, and they should be reported when it happens.

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Originally Posted by HWalsh

Oh for Pete's sake, not this stuff again.

You.
Do.
Not.
Need.
Parsers.
To.
Better.
Yourself.

For eff's sake. Do a little math. This. Ain't. Rocket. Science.

It's VERY easy to create a solid rotation.

Step 1. Look at the potency of abilities.
Step 2. Look at cooldowns.
Step 3. Put cooldowns in order to take advantage of the global cooldown to maximize up time.

SMH

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Is that the equivalent of inserting clapping hands emojis between words that are supposed to make the statement true? I highlydoubt you will be able or patient enough to use math to see if your new opener does 300 DPS more or less than before over a 12 minute fight :P By that logic: You don't need browsers, just download the raw data and translate the binary data into a website yourself.

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Originally Posted by xJimmehx

And how is that working out? People are still harassing others and of course some people are still using parsers in silence to better them selves. In addition, the ps4 users cant even use the information at all. This is no "middle ground." This is SE allowing pc players to have an advantage over ps4 players WHILE harassment is still as prevalent as ever because some people are willingly, and illogically gimping their selves out of fear. If SE bans people with poor behaviour or not, that still doesnt change the fact that ps4 players are getting the shaft. Whether ps4 players get a parser or not. You will still play with pc players who parse and thats fact.


Exactly.

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And because it is control, you don’t see it happen everywhere in game. It is rare. If it make official it is like lifting a gun ban, with gun control in some countries they still get shooting in rare occasions, lift the ban it happen way more. The only way to eliminate it is completely banning it and I am sure it is not something we want.

even in PC ppl with high end PC is going to have advantage over weaker PC, they load faster have less hardware induced lag and ppl with faster internet will have advantage too. That’s just how it is

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Originally Posted by Misutoraru

And because it is control, you don’t see it happen everywhere in game. It is rare. If it make official it is like lifting a gun ban, with gun control in some countries they still get shooting in rare occasions, lift the ban it happen way more. The only way to eliminate it is completely banning it and I am sure it is not something we want.

even in PC ppl with high end PC is going to have advantage over weaker PC, they load faster have less hardware induced lag and ppl with faster internet will have advantage too. That’s just how it is

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Not to mention that PS4 players can still see the results of their encounters on fflogs or by asking in chat. Having the parser live has little use. It's more of a mental thing than it is a useful one. Not like you can "make up" lost DPS.
It's a different matter for tools like cacbot and whatnot but honestly, it doesn't do anything more than someone on voice giving callouts. There are only a select few instances where it can brain dead a mechanic and 99% of the time it's not that much of a gap from doing it without ACT anyways.

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Originally Posted by Misutoraru

...

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-Having better internet or pc is something out of SEs control. In game parsers are not.
They CANT ban it. They cannot detect it. If they try to write anti parser code, people will just make a different parser and they will be stuck in an endless loop of anti parse patches. FFXIV anti cheat will basically become malware and as others have said, SE would lose way too much time and resources to fight it.

-Allowing parses will not hurt the community so long as they still ban the players who harass others with them. Even with "guns" its the same thing. Lawful citizens should be able to protect themselves from being killed in their own homes. Removing weapons from lawful citizens doesnt lower gun crime. Because...they're lawful citizens in the first place..? Taking them from criminals is impossible. The only thing you can do in this case is let citizens defend themselves and punish them heavily if they abuse their rights according to law. (in my area shooting a man in the back even in "self defence" is murder because he isnt attacking you if hes not facing you)

-The concept im trying to get across is this. If you do not have the power to stop the parsers from parsing but do have the power to ban people who are jerks to their fellow players, why should you punish the innocent ps4 players instead? Ps4 players arent calling out peoples parses. Hell, they arent even given the chance to prove SE wrong. Its as if SE thinks ps4 players cannot be trusted to play by the rules.

-People are only worried about the way they will be treated and the potential embarrassment. Not the tool itself.

-If you can ban the people who rudely shame others and embarrass them, why would you still settle for being punished for playing as a ps4 user when you can have both proper moderation of the parsing community AND a parser on ps4 which would level the playing field for both consoles and pcs? Why would adding a parsing system to a game increase the amount of harassment cases if they issue bans appropriately? We have parsers on pc and ps4 does not. Their are good and bad people in both communities. Why punish the good people who haven't even done anything when you can punish the bad people for shaming and kicking? Its like saying "Because some pc players are mean, instead of addressing their behavior, we are going to punish ps4 users." It doesn't make sense.

-I get it. People think that if you disallow users access to parsers, then that means less parsers overall so it also means less jerk parsers. But what it also means is no ps4 parsers at all. You wont affect us over on pc. So long as we "dont ask dont tell."

-Why is Ps4 incapable of "Dont ask, Dont tell"? Why trust us pc players but punish ps4 players?

-Imagine if they banned computers everywhere because a handful of idiots looked at minors on porn sites. Imagine if they banned all alcohol because some men get drunk and assault their wives. Imagine if they took all of our medicines from our hospitals because a group of people lie about being sick to abuse drugs or sell them to people who will. It doesnt make sense. Punish people for being bad people. Do not punish good people because of the bad. A tool is just a tool. Its how you use it that matters and quite frankly, as stated before, they cannot stop pc players. Pc is the prince and Ps4 is our whipping boy who gets punished in our stead.

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Originally Posted by xJimmehx

-Having better internet or pc is something out of SEs control. In game parsers are not.
They CANT ban it. They cannot detect it. If they try to write anti parser code, people will just make a different parser and they will be stuck in an endless loop of anti parse patches. FFXIV anti cheat will basically become malware and as others have said, SE would lose way too much time and resources to fight it.

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There is always some sacrifices to made, and introducing a don’t ask don’t tell rule, I would say is already being generous consider they never officially allow this tool at the first place. Is it unfair? Yeah but there is always a price to pay, there will never have 100% freedom even in real life

The issue is with use at your own risk there are already ppl miss using it, lift the ban more of such situations will occur and GM have to reveal everysingle report in case to case basis. It will end up either GM don’t care anymore, or they just ban every ban with slightest evidence of harassment. And SE will have to recuit more GM to just handle the extra complain if they choose to do it properly, with Yoshi claiming they have tight budget on everything I don’t see them increasing man power in an area which have almost no benefit to SE.

Finally, their don’t ask don’t tell policy basically assume no one is using until someone file a report and someone admit using it, so in their mind it is also something they could not control(clearly written in T&C)

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Originally Posted by xJimmehx

-People are only worried about the way they will be treated and the potential embarrassment. Not the tool itself.

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More like "afraid of no longer getting carried". When I try to join static and they tell me my DPS isn't good enough for a clear, that's an objective, measurable, neutral fact. I can then decide to either try to improve or to accept that I won't be doing savage. The only person that is afraid of that scenario is the person that was still hoping of doing savage while knowing they are not good enough.
Just bc 99% of the game is a prticipation medal doesn't mean the final 1% which is endgame is as well. The game just does a bad job at communicating it, so people still feel entitled to keep getting rewarded for subpar play.

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Originally Posted by Misutoraru

There is always some sacrifices to made, and introducing a don’t ask don’t tell rule, I would say is already being generous consider they never officially allow this tool at the first place. Is it unfair? Yeah but there is always a price to pay, there will never have 100% freedom even in real life

The issue is with use at your own risk there are already ppl miss using it, lift the ban more of such situations will occur and GM have to reveal everysingle report in case to case basis. It will end up either GM don’t care anymore, or they just ban every ban with slightest evidence of harassment. And SE will have to recuit more GM to just handle the extra complain if they choose to do it properly, with Yoshi claiming they have tight budget on everything I don’t see them increasing man power in an area which have almost no benefit to SE.

Finally, their don’t ask don’t tell policy basically assume no one is using until someone file a report and someone admit using it, so in their mind it is also something they could not control(clearly written in T&C)

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Can’t edit in phone
Furthermore, in SE defence their is nothing unfair, they clearly state using such tool will potentially result in a ban. A don’t tell don’t ask policy simply mean they assume no one using it out of good gesture, no one is guilty until there are evidence suggesting such tool are being use