yea, but that person also got to attend fanfest.. ya know.. in vegas...Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaTimeBear
Cash shop confirmed
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10-23-2014, 01:08 AMSinisterIsBack
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10-23-2014, 01:09 AMTeirshinAnd you have proof of this.... where? You cant prove it any more than I can disprove it. It remains.... an opinion only.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teryaani
As I said, companies have this generation sold on the idea of paying something.... for nothing.... a virtual item that exists only in data streams....
I'm of the mindset I should have something tangible for my money. Things like a cash shop prey on those who are already addicted to MMO's, and give them one more thing to spend on to get that "quick fix" feeling of "I got something!!!!!".... when in reality, they got nothing.... except a lighter bank account and a small blob of pixels that was irrelevant and forgotten within a week of spending that money.
Its really a shame that people have come to accept that as an ok thing. -
10-23-2014, 01:10 AMTeaTimeBearThat wasn't why he was going though. His fanfest was the virtual item.Quote:
Originally Posted by SinisterIsBack
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10-23-2014, 01:11 AMDefendPopPunkMaybe. Maybe not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaret
Yoshi-P mentioned in a presentation at GDC (iirc) that they prefer to hear the feedback from angry customers rather than having quiet customers that walk away from the game unhappy. Anyone complaining about or celebrating the advent of the cash shop (or any change to the game really) is simply giving them what they want: feedback.
It's interesting to note though, that when Yoshi-P was first mentioning the possibility of a cash shop, at the time there were so many threads that were popping up with even the tiniest requests/suggestions followed by "please take my money, SE."
Our feedback does have some amount of impact, more often than not welcomed by the devs, and SE has said in the past that it's appreciated that so many fans even have that much love for this game to make such a fuss over things instead of just up and quitting. No, I don't think this excuses some of the more extreme reactions but you understand what I'm getting at. -
10-23-2014, 01:12 AMTeryaaniOuch! That's dedication to vanity right there :)Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaTimeBear
Sure, but if their only reason to go was the mog, that's a helluva lot of money to spend for a vanity item. Hopefully they squeezed their money's worth out of the trip.Quote:
Originally Posted by SinisterIsBack
On a weirdly tangent note, I really want SE to make sure that these things are untradeable. The vanity pet aftermarket that happened in WoW was just silly.
Which is why I used language like "suspect". The thing is that without data we'll never know and there is a high chance that that data would be skewed because I know human nature well enough to know that people want to present a particular image of themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teirshin
That image is one that wants the art book and that minion? Oh I suppose I'll add it to my account, it came with the book right? When the reality is "A MINION! Yay!....now where do I throw this book".
Not saying that's you, but it certainly could be. I'll never know for sure though because those like you who claim it's somehow different will never admit that it's not.
There's no shame in enjoying the virtual stuff in game. I certainly take no shame in it. Sorry you do.Quote:
Its really a shame that people have come to accept that as an ok thing.
Yes, collecting dust in a corner. For me the main body of the purchase is the virtual item.Quote:
Originally Posted by RaddCuban
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10-23-2014, 01:12 AMRaddCubanThat is your and people like that's choice to neglect the actual main body of your purchase as you are not interested in it not the negation of the code's existence as an incentive for early adoption of the merchandise. The merchandise will probably be around for much longer than the "early bird special" codes will.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teryaani
Then resell it. There is a healthy aftermarket for these things. And no, when you buy the soundtrack you pay 50 dollars for the blu-ray(s) full of music. You get a cute little minion for buying the merchandise early in its lifespan. The fact that you are choosing to only focus on the incentive doesn't mean that the product is not what is making up the price of the purchase. I'm not saying you are wrong to do it, just that your motives for purchase do not affect the nature of the product being sold.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teryaani
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10-23-2014, 01:13 AMGucci_Charms
I want an instant win FCOB. Can I buy my win in the cash shop please?
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10-23-2014, 01:17 AMRinchanNauBasically this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gucci_Charms
Unless they're offering FCoB gear in the cash shop during 2.4 or 2.5 who cares? Is it just people that live to complain about every single change in the game? -
10-23-2014, 01:23 AMTeirshinRight because its always better to worry about things AFTER they happen......Quote:
Originally Posted by RinchanNau
Its what the cash shop represents as a possible path thats the problem most have with it. Once they get it going, and start making money hand over fist, anything they CAN sell, they WILL sell. -
10-23-2014, 01:29 AMRinchanNau...Source?Quote:
Originally Posted by Teirshin
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10-23-2014, 01:32 AMNegotiatorthe arrival of a cash shopQuote:
Originally Posted by RinchanNau
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10-23-2014, 01:33 AMStrejdaTomCommon sense and knowledge of every company's goal (to make money)? Stop being so naive.Quote:
Originally Posted by RinchanNau
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10-23-2014, 01:36 AMRinchanNauBlizzard is pretty great at making money. Not really any notable pay to win in their shop. Only notable thing is the much much higher pricing.Quote:
Originally Posted by StrejdaTom
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10-23-2014, 01:36 AMShneibelyou mean the player assumption , all I read from this thread are assumptions & assumptions.Quote:
Originally Posted by StrejdaTom
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10-23-2014, 01:39 AMStrejdaTomI wasn't talking about pay to win, I was talking about how they are going to use every possible mean to make money from cash shop, even if that means adding less things to game the normal way. They can't sell pay to win things, that would drag the most of the community except white knights away. But they can sell anything else and even that is in my opinion too much for subscription based game and to be honest if they added the possibilities that are in WoW (levelling up for example) it would be too much for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by RinchanNau
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10-23-2014, 01:40 AMLuckeIsn't Blizzard the company that sells the ability to instantly get to max level with a brand new character with no work? Legit question.Quote:
Originally Posted by RinchanNau
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10-23-2014, 01:41 AMMysteranActually, most of it is predicting future outcomes based on past experiences with nearly identical situations. Yea, I guess you can call that an assumption, but it's based on past experience. Like when I burned my hand on the oven when I was a child. Based on that past experience I would predict, should I touch that part of the oven again, I will likely get burned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shneibel
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10-23-2014, 01:44 AMMoqi
Hopefully they'll start selling raids soon so they'll have more money to develop them and they'll be much better than Coil now... right?
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10-23-2014, 01:48 AMEvenstar
You guys talking about experience, because you say other companies do it too. Can you name one major MMORPG that had a cash shop and added pay to win things?
Blizzard and adding "boost to 90" after almost 10 years does not count. It is not a pay to win function, but a smart addition to attract new players to the game. They know very well none is going to level 1 to 90 to catch up with their friends before the new expansion.
After all those years Blizzard only has a few mounts, a few minions, a few fun gear items and the boost to 90. If Blizzard can handle it without going nuts I am sure Square Enix can.
FFXIV will never add pay to win stuff and if you are really worried so much about a few minions and a mount I would say grow up already .... -
10-23-2014, 01:48 AMTeryaaniThey did and it's ridiculous. There are loads of theories as to why they're doing this, mine is that WoD is the last level increase expansion, they were betting on Project Titan (which they lost to Bungie (Destiny)) and this is their "screw it!" moment. Prior to the WoD announcement though, their cash shop was pretty much the way I hope SE's is in terms of content offered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucke
Right, because Raids are a vanity item.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moqi
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10-23-2014, 01:48 AMTupsiIt is - They're doing it because their design negated and obsoleted every past content. It's done to allow new people to catch up instantly with the new content and expansion if you choose to go that route. XIV is only a year old, while most content is obsolete, it's almost nothing to level in this game and having multiple classes per character actually keeps the leveling content relevant. The Blizzard Cash Shop for WoW has been around for awhile and that's literally the only "dodgy" thing in it - and even then that makes sense for that game. People say: "common sense it will happen!"...yeah, it happens...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucke
In F2P and P2W MMORPGs...something people keep forgetting about. -
10-23-2014, 01:48 AMMardelIt is a flawed prediction though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysteran
You could say, one time I backed up and accidentally hit a car. Next time I back up I'll hit a car again. (Doesn't work like this.)
or
I could assume that since FFXIV 1.0 was bad that 2.0 would be just as bad, right? What a shock to find it is one the more popular MMOs out on the market. -
10-23-2014, 01:50 AMTupsi
Ironically - People who keep saying "It will happen" must secretly be stating that ARR is going F2P and has failed..because most "P2W cash shops" happen when a P2P MMO fails and need to relaunch as F2P...
So if no one is saying that, as someone will no doubt argue, why do people keep arguing what happens in F2P MMOs will happen here? -
10-23-2014, 01:50 AMStrejdaTomWith cash shop we are getting to the state when paying subscription doesnt give us full access to the game content (everything ingame is content, even vanity items) so I think that gating raids behind money wall is ok. It is SE's right to give us only the content they think we deserve. /sarcasm offQuote:
Originally Posted by Moqi
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10-23-2014, 01:51 AMEvenstar
I am seriously curious about what people are scared about. Can you give a few examples of items that might brake it?
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10-23-2014, 01:52 AMShneibelso basically what you say is : The player fear for the feature of the game & they come to the conclusion & assumption the game will be like this or that game make by this or that company & host by another this or that company. It is still assumption.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysteran
Dont get me wrong, I will and I am see everything in this thread are assumption until I can see the source, the feature is something we do not know -
10-23-2014, 01:55 AMTeirshinEvery business ever?Quote:
Originally Posted by RinchanNau
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10-23-2014, 01:56 AMsaeedaisspecialThere's nothing that could "break" the game. But as for what we're worried about? Well go look at the OP, and my reasoning on the Odin mount.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evenstar
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10-23-2014, 02:00 AMAmberionBlizzard is also testing out xp pots and some kind of pvp point pot boost i think it was. There is a link in the earlier pages to the article from blizzard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evenstar
Pretty much how predictions work. You see how the trend have been in the past, then apply that to the future. And unless you are using untrue basis, the predictions have a high possibility of coming true.Quote:
so basically what you say is : The player fear for the feature of the game & they come to the conclusion & assumption the game will be like this or that game make by this or that company & host by another this or that company. It is still assumption.
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10-23-2014, 02:03 AMGucci_Charms
Maybe they will start selling Gil in the cash shop to reduce RMT bots similar to how Diablo 3 did it when Auction House was still available.
1 million gil stack = $99.99 -
10-23-2014, 02:03 AMTeaTimeBearI think the fear stems from past experience of playing F2P, or watching a cash shop start out as vanity then trickle into the P2W area. What items? Gear for example, stuff solely exclusive to the shop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evenstar
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10-23-2014, 02:09 AMTeryaaniQuote:
Originally Posted by saeedaisspecial
They also will be shuffling some of these as veteran rewards as well. That's something that keeps crossing my mind too. It has absolutely next-to-no bearing on this discussion, but for some reason that's been bouncing around in my head.Quote:
Do we make this a drop, similar to the Extreme Primal mounts? Or do we put it into a cash shop?
The problem is that we have what looks like two (maybe three - apathy is a camp) camps of people.
1) Those that lean toward SE putting anything and everything good that is vanity in the cash store.
2) Those that hold a wait and see attitude, or possibly even a hope or expectation that SE won't do this.
I fall into the 2nd camp and here's why: SE has had this in the works for some time and they still released a large amount of vanity pets and mogs into the game when they could have withheld it. I still have hope that they will keep making emotes, and makeup, and minions, and mounts available in game.
Until SE pulls another housing and does something crappy with the store, I will hold out hope that they will remain a good actor in this. I understand why others feel differently, but that's how I am.
<cough>Quote:
Originally Posted by RaddCuban
Part of Saeedaisspecial's post is commenting that this is a development decision that has to be made. When thinking through that statement the thought "sure, those or as a veteran reward I guess" kept coming up in head. To prevent this thought from becoming sentient and taking over my frontal lobe, I typed it out and included a statement basically stating that it was a non-sequitor.Quote:
It has absolutely next-to-no bearing on this discussion
But hey! Thanks for picking out the completely non-salient point there RaddCuban. Thumbs up!
Freaking post limit.Quote:
Originally Posted by RaddCuban
The problem with what you picked out is that it's none of the things you mentioned above. You cherry picked a non sequitor and ignored the part of the post that contained the point.
To your point:
I completely disagree. The collectors edition and merch with in game items are exactly the same as a cash shop item. You have handed SE money for something, in game, that is over an above your sub amount. Whether or not it's a better value is subjective, but IT'S THE EXACT SAME THING.
When the fat chocobo came out, the cries in Mor Dhona of "BRB, grabbing CE for the mount" were incessant. Those people bought the CE for an in game item. They paid extra for a mount. Whether or not it's a better value as it applies to all of your characters or not is completely irrelevant. People paid above the sub price for an in game item. -
10-23-2014, 02:12 AMStarlordWell there are reasons not to be totally scared:Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaTimeBear
1) Square Enix has ALOT more money than all the other MMOs that were once P2P then went to F2P ( because they simply lacked the funds and needed to recoup)
2) FFXI is still P2P for 11+ years, as long as that game stay P2P, FFXIV will follow suit. ( It's more of a Marketing Formula for them concerning MMO's in general it seems.
3) They have both FFXI and FFXIV as money flowing into the company, so the chances of SE going to the F2P route is VERY slim. MMOs only go to F2P route when once a P2P game is if the game is not sustaining itself ( and the company not having the funds to keep it a P2P game).
I don't like the idea of a cash shop, but I don't think it will ever go F2P nor the cash shop will ever go the P2W route ( in a p2p game?) Never heard of a game to do that while under the P2P tag. -
10-23-2014, 02:16 AMRaddCubanYou know what separates the veteran rewards from the cash shop items? That the former is an account upgrade. Once you get a veteran reward tier, you get it for all your characters, that is past, present, and future.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teryaani
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10-23-2014, 02:22 AMLaf
so... subs dropped that low?
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10-23-2014, 02:30 AMJaybot
I wonder how many people will unsubscribe, I had a couple friends tell me they weren't going to renew next month because of it. :(
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10-23-2014, 02:41 AMRaddCubanI've already cancelled my recurring subscription. I still have a large amount of paid game time that I will make full use of, as I buy my time in the 180 days chunks, but unless the state of affairs changes over the course of that time that shall be it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaybot
I brought it up because several times through out the discussion the CE and the digital CE upgrade have been brought up as being basically the same as a cash shop when they are not. Demonizing account upgrades by conflating them with Cash Shop purchases, something that also applies to the promotional codes on merchandise, is something that has been bugging me through out this thread, the entirety of which I've read.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teryaani
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10-23-2014, 02:43 AMFyrebrandThe last stats I heard about FFXIV were that it has over 2 million subscribers. Just imagine how much money they are raking in, from that. I know there are some people from 1.0 who are paying a lower subscription fee, but on average most players pay between $13 to $15 per month (and much of that paid months in advance for veteran rewards). Let's be conservative and just assume there no more than a flat 2 million people paying $13/month each:Quote:
Originally Posted by Laf
2,000,000 x $13 = Twenty-Six Million Dollars PER MONTH in revenue (not including any initial game purchases, fantasias, or other services)
And people tell me "the subscription model isn't viable anymore," or "the cash shop is a great way for fans to help support the game." Please. Your subscription money is plenty enough to support FFXIV for a long time coming, as it was for FFXI. The cash shop is not some last-ditch effort to save FFXIV from oblivion; it is a superfluous, greed-driven ploy to tarnish the value you get for your sub money and gouge you for extra cash on top of it.
EDIT: My mistake, it was 2 million "registered accounts," not necessarily active subscribers. There seem to be no solid stats on current active subscriptions, but I believe Yoshi-P has commented that they get an average of 500,000 account log-ins per day. However, it's not as if every player is logs in 7 days a week, without exception. You pay your monthly sub, whether you log in every day or not. Some people only log in a few times per week, or even 1-2 times. So, somewhere around 2 million subscribers does not seem that far-fetched. Plus, keep in mind I was low-balling the subscription amount to a standard $13/month. Some pay more than that, based on their sub setup or if they pay extra for more than one character per server (I do). Then there are optional paid services like fantasias, server transfer, or the recent HD stream of the Fan Fest. The point is, they are making crazy money off this game. -
10-23-2014, 02:44 AMRamen
the moment when I decided to leave XI was when they are selling more and more Add-on contents while there are nothing more to do in the game.
I am going to boycott this cash shop. -
10-23-2014, 02:51 AMLafSigh... It was registered accounts or created characters, not subs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyrebrand