Cash shop pricing is getting a bit much...

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Why cant she not ask for ultima weapons in there? They are just glamour anyway and since buying stuff for glamour is fine that should be fine too right? It just really annoys me that people can point out that someone should just earn more money as if your complains are only there because we could not afford it..instead of just accepting that not everyone is fine with the prices on these digital goods and point out how far you could take that. Tiraelinas post was not even about P2W but more about Krotoans post that its about the income of people and thus saying that if its fine to pay a price because they dont have time to grind for it ingame then this should happen to savage too since not everyone has time and the stuff is glamour.

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Ultimate Coil weapons are indeed glamour right now since the ilvl's are not any better than the current Savage tier so you're right about that, however, the actual current Savage Sigmascape tier is not just glamour pieces. It's significantly better gear than the normal Sigma gear and questionable in some terms up against the Dai-Ryumaku gear depending on which piece has the better BiS weight. Diamond gear is not just for glamour.

I just wanted to correct that, sorry.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Dear SE please raise all the prices of the mounts to 200 $ and make them single character only. Because if people complain that one digital mount costs more than the monthly sub they pay it seems that they just dont earn enough money and thus have no reason to complain. So if someone does not want to pay 200 $ for it they should just earn more rl. (And yes this is sarcasm)

This is a game and a MMO..it should take time to get stuff. (Reasonable time and not years or something) But hey please put savage stuff in the mog station. I dont have the time and group to clear it and because of that lets sell it for money..

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Your exaggerations help convince me to adopt your perspective very little. If you want to have a reasonable discussion that's fine, if you're going to take everything I say and run 20 miles down the road with it.. I'll just ignore you like some others.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Why cant she not ask for ultima weapons in there? They are just glamour anyway and since buying stuff for glamour is fine that should be fine too right? It just really annoys me that people can point out that someone should just earn more money as if your complains are only there because we could not afford it..instead of just accepting that not everyone is fine with the prices on these digital goods and point out how far you could take that. Tiraelinas post was not even about P2W but more about Krotoans post that its about the income of people and thus saying that if its fine to pay a price because they dont have time to grind for it ingame then this should happen to savage too since not everyone has time and the stuff is glamour.

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The idea is to earn the price for something that HAS a set price, not that everything should have a price. I apologize I didn't phrase that explicitly enough. You can turn everything someone says into insanity by dialing it up past a reasonable level. I'm not supporting cash = completion. I'm saying that an item being buyable for money isn't the barrier you think it is.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

People that are anti-cash shop want to cry about how it’s pay-to-win because you can rent additional retainers;

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Her post was about a post that pointed out how those that dislike the prices are only doing so because they dont earn enough money. Answering sarcastic to such a post is imo not the worst one can do. I think that would show quite well how the other poster was kinda wrong.

Also this thread is not about retainers, P2W and other stuff. These points were discussed in other threads more than enough. This one is about pricing! And her reaction was about the post that selling the glamour (which is as important to some as savage to others) is fine because people dont have time to play the game much. So she answers that since she does not have time to raid it should be fine to put the savage stuff in the shop too. So its not about P2W, its a sarcastic hint that the argument of "I dont have time" can be used for much more.

In the end people play this game for different reasons. I for example like to collect stuff, like Glamour, Pets, Mounts. I cant complete my collectin and thus cant reach my goal thanks to the cash shop. So for me all those mounts and stuff in there is like putting savage gear in it. But somehow we should be fine with that because its only glamour. (But again this topic is more about the prices..)

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Your exaggerations help convince me to adopt your perspective very little. If you want to have a reasonable discussion that's fine, if you're going to take everything I say and run 20 miles down the road with it.. I'll just ignore you like some others.
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And your post about saying that people just dont want those prices because they dont earn enough money wont help me understand your perspective very little. We have given more reasons than that but you put them down to: We dont earn enough and thats why we dislike it. Thats also not how to do a discussion. I did use a bigger price because I wanted to point out how one could even use the argument there. Lets get a bit down. If they go around and add a mount for 50$. Would you be fine with that? Would you go around and say that people just dont earn enough money and thus should not complain about the price. When will they reach your comfortable zone? And yet when they reach that another person can just come and say: Welp they can do whatever they want this is just glamour and since I can buy this without a problem you should not complain because you just need to earn more.

This was my point of the post. To show that even if they would raise the price soo high, that you could still use your argument. So it does not make a good argument for me. (And enough people already pointed out that they could buy it but that they still find it too high)

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

Ultimate Coil weapons are indeed glamour right now since the ilvl's are not any better than the current Savage tier so you're right about that, however, the actual current Savage Sigmascape tier is not just glamour pieces. It's significantly better gear than the normal Sigma gear and questionable in some terms up against the Dai-Ryumaku gear depending on which piece has the better BiS weight. Diamond gear is not just for glamour.

I just wanted to correct that, sorry.

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Oh I know. I would also completely argue against SE if they ever decide to put them in the shop (even if this would never hurt me). I am just sad that its fine for some people because its just glamour. Yet glamour/pets/mounts may mean a lot for some of us (just like some love savage). If I might want to nitpick I could argue that they can put the weapons in there as pure glamour too without any stats thus making them useless in fights. I am still sure that this would not be fine for a lot of people that raid even though its just glamour too. In the end I wanted to point out how you can spin that argument to everything.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Her post was about a post that pointed out how those that dislike the prices are only doing so because they dont earn enough money. Answering sarcastic to such a post is imo not the worst one can do. I think that would show quite well how the other poster was kinda wrong.

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Didn't you speak about how other posters shouldn't be using an "eye for an eye" in Kaiva's thread and now you're allowing it here? You're kind of going back against your own words. Reacting sarcastically towards another user's sarcastic post solves nothing and in fact, is just as bad as being rude or insulting, it creates a hostile environment where everything starts to become approached by high-strung feelings rather than rational thought.

I mean, if that's what you believe then fine, I can't change your opinion only you can, but...you can't call out other users for doing it and then say that it's acceptable in this situation because of a "this user did it first, so it's okay for this user to to do it too". It's still an eye for an eye no matter which way you can spin it...

Both sides got a little heated, but you shouldn't respond to sarcasm with just more sarcasm, it goes no where as Hyomin had said and just makes you look petty and blowing things out of proportion. Although, sometimes it is hard to avoid in certain topics, but...hyperbole and exaggerations seems to be the trigger that riles everyone up lately too.

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Originally Posted by Sigma-Astra

Didn't you speak about how other posters shouldn't be using an "eye for an eye" in Kaiva's thread and now you're allowing it here?

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The eye for the eye thing was more about insulting the poster which I did not. We kinda did want to point out how the argument can be used even further and on everything. Like if you say that its fine that they use the price then its fine to use the prices even if they reach quite high. That points out a flaw in their argumentation and is not about insulting the poster. (Which my post in Kaivas thread was about) If I would go and say how she is xxx and should stop posting or calling her names I would be rude. But pointing out how far one can take the argument is imo not. I also said that its not the worst one can do which means that it may not be the best either but it also is not attacking them or anything.

My own sarcasmus was more about a hint that I did not mean it as that. That I would not be fine with it costing that much money.

Edit: But maybe it got a bit too heated and for that I am sorry. I just really dislike arguments that make it look like we are just poor and thus thats why we complain. They dont do much for the discussion and I wanted to point that out. Maybe in the wrong way.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

dismiss the rest of your arguments

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

civilized conversation/debate

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So you have nothing to add this conversion except for a kneejerk out of context reply and further nit picking, got it.

On a more serious note, regarding the pricing structure...only a few things have actually changed over time and the Mogstation has been around since Heavensward, correct? I don't quite remember when it first started, but it has to have been several ongoing years now. I'd like to think that if SE really wanted to just gut us like fishies, they would have bumped the prices up severely at the start of the new expansion because that's when a lot of people come flooding back into the game. Instead, they're raising certain things while devaluing some others in gradual increments over time. Are they perfect prices? Not really. Is it extortion? Not necessarily. And yes, I don't even consider the statues to be extortion because you're paying for a hand-made, quality painted and sculpted work of art that probably took some poor Japanese worker months to create. Did those statues need to come with an emote? Not really, but we know why they do because it's an incentive to get people to spend money on very shiny paper weights. $150 is within the normal range for figurines, depending on their craftsmanship, quality, and rarity.

Certain things like emotes I think should have already been in the game via purchased through Gold Saucer or GC seals, those aren't worth the price to me. The dyes they are getting better with over time. The NPC costumes? They could have been sidequest options as older RPG's have done in the day, however, I think we're over that era unfortunately and it's not coming back. They could stand to be cheaper. I can buy glamour for my Neptunia and Tales games at like...$2-$5 per outfit or item from the PSN store. The Chinese/Korean exclusive stuff? We will probably never see any changes since it wouldn't be fair towards the actual developers and players from those regions if we got something far cheaper than them. The mounts? Some stuff is a bit over-priced and could have been packaged together like the Carbuncles and some of them just aren't worth buying period like the Fat Moogle one. Even if I could spend $35 on it, I'd never use it and I see less and less people using the atrocious thing every day so maybe over time, they'll reduce it hopefully. But, as far as I know of based on knowledge from a friend who still plays, WoW mounts are priced a bit higher than our mounts in their cash shop, however, Blizzard at least offers discounts and bundles at much higher ratios and SE hasn't even offered one. I think if SE started offering bundles on certain items, it may alleviate some of the other people's distress with the cash shop. And finally for the minions? Those aren't really worth the price either and could stand to be knocked down a few pegs simply because once you have so many minions, you kind of focus on a few favorites that remain out all of the time and then you ignore like....half of the rest of them (I'm looking at you Morbol Seedling and Little Rat). Some minions could have been tied with events or quests as well.

All in all, we have numerous ideas to fix the Mogstation, however, the likelihood of SE doing anything is...probably about 5% because they focus on a "don't fix what isn't broken yet" mentality.

And with that, I have to get to bed or my fiance is going to be really angry if I sleep past noon again tomorrow since it's 6am. Goodnight~

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Originally Posted by Tiraelina

So you have nothing to add this conversion except for a kneejerk out of context reply and further nit picking, got it.

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I’ve already said my piece previously. Feel free to go back and find it.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Get your butts out there and make some money. The opportunity to get those items IS there, you just have to spend a little more effort in REAL life.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

If you're on a fixed income and have budgeted for a video game but don't have enough to squirrel away a couple dollars a month til you have enough for the item, you probably can't really afford that video game either. You are one misfortune away from disaster. BTW people with cancer and developmental disabilities are still capable of many things, including finding other means of income than hard labor.

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I really can't describe your attitude as anything but obnoxious and condescending. I have a friend waiting to hear if she needs a third operation for cancer this year, and you can be 100% sure I won't be waving my good health and superior earning power in her face or suggesting she starts looking for secondary employment, since she is unable to do her normal job.

Back to topic
You are assuming everyone arguing against the prices is either poor (oddly enough this is not seen as some sort of moral deficiency where I come from), unable to budget or both. The point of the thread was that the prices in the cash-shop are too high, and in some cases I have to agree; the price of some recent additions does seem pretty steep to me.
It's not that I can't pay, it's that I think the items are overpriced.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

And your post about saying that people just dont want those prices because they dont earn enough money wont help me understand your perspective very little. We have given more reasons than that put you put them down to: We dont earn enough and thats why we dislike it. Thats also not how to do a discussion. I did use a bigger price because I wanted to point out how one could even use the argument there. Lets get a bit down. If they go around and add a mount for 50$. Would you be fine with that? Would you go around and say that people just dont earn enough money and thus should not complain about the price. When will they reach your comfortable zone? And yet when they reach that another person can just come and say: Welp they can do whatever they want this is just glamour and since I can buy this without a problem you should not complain because you just need to earn more.

This was my point of the post. To show that even if they would raise the price soo high that you could use your argument still. So it does not make a good argument for me. (And enough people already pointed out that they could buy it but that they still find it too high)

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I'm sorry suggesting you go out and acquire the resources necessary to achieve your goal is so antagonizing.
Reasons given:
It's too much
it shouldn't be for money
this is a small step on the path to total monetization
SE needs to make these items accessible to all even those who cannot pay money

I think i've addressed all of this during the thread but I'll recap:
It's equal to or less than other similar services from other games.
It wouldn't exist if the money wasn't being paid for it.
Being afraid to offer things because they can be taken to unwanted levels or being against things for the same reason is alarmist and prevents lots of good things from possibly happening.
I don't think they do, it'd be nice but it's not a moral issue.

you can post ridiculous prices over and over and tell me "well what if they.. " but they wouldn't. $200 dollar mounts to you AND me are prohibitively expensive. Just because we're ok with one price isn't a green flag to just throw prices at us until we can't pay, that's not how this works. They do research for what people are willing to pay and price accordingly. You can take any argument to a ridiculous example but it only makes you look unreasonable.

I'm not implying you all are poor peasants who can't afford the things I can cause I'm so much better.. I don't think I'm better and I honestly apologize if that's the message you're getting. I'm saying that there are solid and doable ways to get what you're coveting. If you truly don't find it worth it, then don't buy it. Saying you'd buy it if only it was cheaper is a non-comment though, that's nearly everything for everyone. The stuff will go on sale, so wait. If it's still not enough bang for the buck for you I'd say you'd never buy it unless it gets reduced to spare change.

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Originally Posted by Solarra

I really can't describe your attitude as anything but obnoxious and condescending. I have a friend waiting to hear if she needs a third operation for cancer this year, and you can be 100% sure I won't be waving my good health and superior earning power in her face or suggesting she starts looking for secondary employment, since she is unable to do her normal job.

Back to topic
You are assuming everyone arguing against the prices is either poor (oddly enough this is not seen as some sort of moral deficiency where I come from), unable to budget or both. The point of the thread was that the prices in the cash-shop are too high, and in some cases I have to agree; the price of some recent additions does seem pretty steep to me.
It's not that I can't pay, it's that I think the items are overpriced.

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I'm sorry you took it that way. I personally find it strange you equate my telling you that people with disadvantages or challenges in their life are capable of doing things as suggesting your suffering friend with cancer needs to go work more. I can be reasonably sure her concerns in life are far worse than "I can't get that eastern dance emote" and getting the money to cover that. You keep acting like I'm telling people in particularly dire situations that I think they need to go make more money though, if it makes you feel superior to me. What I meant was "for the time you would have spend 'grinding' something ingame you could have earned the money to buy the cash shop item". What you seem to think i said was "everyone who cannot afford it is lazy and no matter who you are if you don't like the prices you're just not trying hard enough".

No the point of the thread is that the prices are INCREASING but they are not. They're adhering to standards pretty well.

I won't be so assumptive as to tell you the prices are reasonable for YOU, but I will say that for most of the public they seem to sell reasonably. You are welcome to decide what is worth how much money for yourself, but I will argue with you if you declare others should think so as well. Based on a median income of the average gamer, it's really not that much and compared to other things with similar entertainment value and longevity it's comparably priced.