Btw I made more than 10 millions cause i was the only lvl 46+ miner on my server for a few days selling DS ore at 13k, gold sand at 9k, pet at 15k, gold at 9k and I'm not even talking about HQ mats. I sold most of my ores 3 at a time cause everyone wanted them for the relics or crafting quests which gave me 36k after market taxes (for DS). I was making around 500k per day only with DS ores.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shigaru
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09-28-2013, 06:11 AMKevinC
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09-28-2013, 06:13 AMThotorSomeone in his FC has crafted for him ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shigaru
He sold crafting component made from tomestone ?
He played the market by buying low and selling high ?
His FC sold Titan run ?
There is so many ways without being a crafter. -
09-28-2013, 06:29 AMAlcyon_DensetsuI hear you and this is why I'll step out of the sarcastic cloud to speak in plain and simple words.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shigaru
The intent may be good, but the methodology you suggest is:- Such a burden on the player's part, when it should be the developer's job to make sure the in-game environment is secure, that I just can't condone it in principle.
- So idealistic, to think that players at large in a modern MMORPG would actually take that time to research a potential buyer and all his FC mates, LS mates (which he doesn't know anyway since the info is private), friends (same remark)… It's actually more than idealistic, it's unrealisable by any stretch of the imagination. You do realise this game, as all others, is full of people who can't stand to wipe more than 3 times on a boss, who can't be bothered to put more than 5 minutes of effort into pretty much anything?
You are basically suggesting that crafters who want to sell anything take as much, if not even more precautions than real-life companies do with real money —ever notice a salesman doesn't do a background check on you before you go through the cash register? :rolleyes: And even if your money was illegally obtained, it's not the seller's responsibility anyway, nor is that person liable in any way for wanting or accepting to sell you a fancy, pricey object, however you "look". You may have friends, you may like hawaiian shirts. Rich people don't all wear suits, you know. And salesmen aren't responsible for other people's crimes. And I, for one, think it's better this way. To each his responsibility, salesmen aren't policemen or judge, nor should they be.
You can't judge a book by its cover. It's not "better", it's actually worse: how would someone be able to prove to you that he's legit despite the looks? Is that the kind of self-policed, closed-minded game you wish for us, thinking of all the consequences of what you imply?
You might also want to consider how a publisher asking his players to behave as you suggest would fare commercially, what people would say about it. "Horrible customer service" doesn't even begin to cover it, "dropping the ball" would be an understatement, unless that hole is like 6,400km deep.
You mean well, I suppose, but you live in a fantasy dream. Your solution can't and won't happen, and I'm glad for all the reasons I mentioned. Don't confuse a game's lore with a game's design and rules; the former is a dream, a fiction, whereas the latter is much complicated and serious job. It's just not that simple... not the real world, nor even in a MMORPG.
Cordially. :) -
09-28-2013, 06:32 AMSintram
I laugh at whoever thinks I should do a background check on someone I am about to sell to.
It is taking a game a bit too seriously. -
09-28-2013, 06:34 AMShinrinCole
Wait how can you do a back ground check on someone if you're going though the Auction House/Selling Board/whatever it's called?
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09-28-2013, 06:37 AMAndrikWhat laws would you have broken, though?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shigaru
Similarly, I'm looking at the part of the ToS relevant to this situation and I don't see how it requires crafters to do any research whatsoever on who they are selling to. If SE is going to depriving players of the game time they've paid for, they should be damn sure that rules have been broken.
Another thing, when these people are found to be innocent, are they going to get back the 3 days or whatever that they've lost? Will it be credited onto their account, or will they get a partial refund? Frankly, I'd want the entire month free for the inconvenience. I haven't actually been affected by this, but if I'm going to keep paying the subscription I want to know that I'm going to be treated fairly by SE, and I'm certainly not getting that feeling here. -
09-28-2013, 06:39 AMAndrik
Actually, maybe I should just stop reading these forums, and the FFXIV reddit. Seems like every time I come on here I read something new that makes me want to play the game less...
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09-28-2013, 06:42 AMMishakaiWell, if you want to talk about real life law, possession of stolen goods is a crime. So, let's say that hobo off the street robbed a bank to get that cash, then gave it to you for the Ferrari. You are now subject to criminal investigation while the police determine whether or not you knew the cash was stolen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrik
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09-28-2013, 07:11 AMAndrikI really don't know why I even thought about pursuing that metaphor, comparing games to real life is never a good idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mishakai
Nonetheless, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask that SE makes sure people have violated the ToS before they ban them. -
09-28-2013, 07:34 AMReika
It is partially SE's fault (and by partially, I mean mostly to completely) for jacking up the crafting mats like they did, forcing people to sell things at unnecessarily high prices, giving people the urge/temptation to buy gil in order to afford the prices people have to sell these things at. All that gear costs probably 3 times or more on a legacy server. over 2mil for a HQ vanya robe of anything.
I'm glad I don't bother trying to farm and sell that stuff, even tho I know there are many people on my server that will buy a rosegold ingot for around 1mil :/. Could bank from doing it, but seeing this, just going to vanquish the thought. Gilbuyers buy my stuff and i'll get banned....
You know, it is probably mainly the gill buyers/sellers or people who sell things to gill buyers/sellers that are liking the changes to those recipes. They are profiting greatly from them.
SE: continue your blanket ban if you like, but fix the shit you broke that caused this to occur in the first place please. -
09-28-2013, 07:37 AMDeedsie
All this and a spam shouter with a *headslamkeyboard* name that I had to blacklist TWICE yesterday is still up and around spam shouting in Ul'Dah.
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09-28-2013, 07:53 AMscarebearz
Today's gaming:
Log in.
Woot that 2 star HQ item I crafted legitimately sold for 1.25mil.
Log out.
Try to log in - Suspended.
....
I've never cheated or used 3rd party programs/maro's in games, yet suspended for having too much gil. -
09-28-2013, 07:55 AMNeasa
... Wow. For the first time, I'm actually glad I wasted all that gil at the end of 1.0. >.>
What are you doing, SE? -
09-28-2013, 07:56 AMAenarionIf you're going to make RL analogies, then at least make accurate ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mishakai
Possession of stolen goods is only a crime IF the owner had reasonable cause to believe the goods are stolen. In this case, the equivalent would be akin to someone getting arrested for possession of stolen goods simply for selling stocks on the stock exchange.
In other words, will never happen -
09-28-2013, 08:04 AMDreamerThis. People need to stop treating wild speculation as fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amnesia
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09-28-2013, 08:08 AMHeather
I don't know why they took this approach for, they should have launched with a right click report spam feature that captures the text with the name. it is = a gil seller then ban him.
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09-28-2013, 08:31 AMEard
Gil laundering, that's why
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09-28-2013, 08:45 AMMattatronI think that's it right there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eard
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09-28-2013, 01:22 PMAcelynne
Coming from FFXI, I remember similar things happening after the STF was introduced and during the height of the RMT issues in the game. This was before the hard limit of sending money via Delivery Box was set to 1 million Gil. There were stories, unconfirmed and confirmed, of players getting banned just for selling items on the Auction House and getting paid millions of Gil for it. Other issues were Linkshell members who handled the LS bank and transferring money to and from LS members. It would flag them as RMT thinking that the one in charge of the LS bank was selling Gil or was a delivery person for an RMT site. I don't believe it is happening nowadays in XI, but I have heard these stories before.
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09-28-2013, 01:29 PMAcelynne
Continued from previous post… (exceeded 1000 characters)
It's a blanket tactic honestly. It's hard to pinpoint an actual RMT player. Most effective way is to monitor monetary transactions between two or more players. In FFXI, I've observed and reported RMT players that used tactics such as selling benign objects like crystals or bone chips in bazaars or if I caught them in the Auction House. They'd be sitting in Port San d'Oria or places with very little players around them. It's too obvious when you see an RMT bazaar selling multiple single item Fire crystals for 1 million, 10 million, 20 mil., 50 mil., or 100 mil. Gil each. And, when you catch it in the Auction House, it sets a red flag. And the items are bought by mules belonging to the actual player. And, they'll use their mules to do so. -
09-28-2013, 01:37 PMAcelynne
All it will take is a GM checking transaction logs between two people. Especially if you see something like "Bone chip Bisasdfasdf -> Matata 10,000,000 G". 'Bis' = Bismarck server, for example.
Because the easiest way to suspect a player for participating in possible RMT activities is via monetary and trade transaction logs, GMs and the STF will flag those players and investigate them. But, remember: It has to go from RMT player to legitimate player or legitimate player to RMT player. If they find that you were trading large amounts of Gil to/from an RMT player within a day or regularly and repeatedly, you will possibly be banned permanently. And, they can check IP addresses of each player. It would make sense since Square-Enix has banned IP ranges in FFXI. I am sure Square-Enix has a list of IP addresses belonging to known RMT companies, possibly known proxy and VPN servers used by them, and possibly country of origin that have high RMT activity like China. -
09-28-2013, 01:42 PMtyrianna324
With the amount of threads about this same subject over and over im thinking of one of two things either A) i save my money now and dont bother paying a sub fee and go play another game that wont ban me for actually following their rules of B) stop using the market board all together and just sell my crafts to the NPC and let my retainers hold my cash that i earn. Im opting for the second option although the first option is looking mighty tempting since i dont want to put real cash into a sub fee to get banned a week later for absolutely no reason what so ever. SE really screwed up on this one and they will lose alot of players from this fiasco.
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09-28-2013, 01:45 PMAdelphe
Is it me or does SE make an awful lot of mistakes? and never apologize for them? i dont buy and sell and i dont craft, but i'd like to think i could and not get banned, seriously SE not our fault you let so many RMT on your servers.
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09-28-2013, 01:49 PMdavidbowie
I farm every item i use to craft they can look at the logs to prove it, i have no need to buy crystals and have no need to buy any mats also i have no control on who buys from my listings on market that is square enix job and they should be more diligent.
to be honest i don't believe 99% of what i read in forums half the crap is made up just to stir the pot and most the truth is left out. -
09-28-2013, 01:51 PMjoshdavis271
This is more supicious to me, if a guy named Asdf Asdf has suddenly acquired 10,000,000,000 Gil
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09-28-2013, 02:28 PMNefarioCall
By a rule, i never buy anything on the markets from retainers with RMT like names.
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09-28-2013, 03:31 PMAcelynne
Put it this way:
If you see a Retainer selling a single crystal, bone chip, or some kind of benign item in increments of 1 mil, 2 mil, 10 mil, or 50 mil gil. Report it. They're either going to a) Trap a legitimate player who accidentally buys it or b) It's meant for someone selling Gil to an RMT player.
Or, it can also be the opposite: A mule of a non-RMT player buying Gil by putting up a benign item up for sale so an RMT player will buy it off him or her for a VERY SPECIFIC amount. Again, report the Retainer. Their Retainer is linked to the account and player anyhow, so they'll be screwed.
Again, I would not be surprised these tactics will be done similarly in FFXIV as it was in FFXI. Someone will have to receive or trade the Gil anyway. Trading Gil may be also monitored as it was in FFXI, so even if they exchange Gil away from the Market Board, there's still a chance it'll be flagged by the GM and/or STF. Like they say when it comes to money-related crimes in real life-- there's ALWAYS a paper trail. Here's there's always a log of who traded who and how much they received.
Remember: Unlike FFXI, Market Board items now show what the item is selling for. They're no longer hidden. -
09-28-2013, 05:52 PMLiadansWhisperI'm just curious...and perhaps someone has already asked this..but uh, how exactly do you research your buyers on the Marketboard?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shigaru
I had 350k by the time I hit 50, and I'm not a huge auctioneer.Quote:
Originally Posted by ilJumperMT
Knowing posession of stolen goods is a crime. If you're given money in good faith that you have no way of knowing was illegally obtained, you have committed absolutely no crime under criminal statutes in the US. Now, it may be that it's different in other countries, but here, beyond a cursory investigation to make sure your story checks out, you're fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mishakai
And no, you don't get arrested. -
09-28-2013, 07:09 PMMolly_Millions
This thread almost makes me happy I stay broke. 1mil for any item in this game is nothing short of robbery, you're damn right people buy Gil to afford that crap.
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09-28-2013, 08:28 PMSotekDepends entirely on the server, but... If people want me to sell Vanya for less, they could start by selling Potash for less...Quote:
Originally Posted by Molly_Millions
That is a major part of the problem with this gear, actually... They set the requirement far too high for this stuff... 9 Potash/Coke/etc is nothing short of ridiculous, making a full set of crafted gear require over three times the amount of tomestones... This means nobody is really getting the stuff, not the amount of people I'd hope to see at least... There is a fairly huge demand for this stuff (thanks in no small part to requiring 9 per synth), since it is used for the only worthwhile crafted gear, and a very small supply. That pushes the cost of the items up (or rather, stops the ridiculous prices from falling down). Coupled with that, you now have a small supply for the gear itself, as well as a (hopefully) large demand seeing as its easily better than Darklight (and doesn't require throwing your face at Praetorium for hours). Again, prices are high because of this.
This really isn't the crafters fault, it is Squares for guffing up endgame so damn badly, and it is Squares for failing to do anything about RMT (we still have Tell/Shout bots, etc.)... They set up endgame such that the supply/demand for this stuff was going to be ridiculous, and now they're banning people for playing off basic economic principles...
That's OK though, crafting was really the only thing I had to do while waiting for weekly caps to pass (again, another problem). Hmmm... Now that I can be banned for using the bleedin' Market Board, I wonder what I'll do until Monday... I swear, it is like they want this game to fail again... Binding Coil is really the only redeeming thing I've run across so far, lets hope five turns can carry me over to 2.2? Christ... 2.1 better be amazing... With Crystal Tower being a stepping stone I've already stepped, I doubt it though... -
09-30-2013, 03:17 PMKiluvian
This is Square Enix we're all talking about. They literally have the worst customer service of any decent MMO that hit the market over the last decade and a half. What were you all expecting? I mean, other than the art, this game appears to have been built with technology almost as old as EverQuest 1. Lower your expectations, a lot; it's not going to get much better.
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09-30-2013, 03:32 PMSedoSan
It does sucks indeed, innocents being invested because of stereotypes...
Black men driving expensive cars being pulled for no reason (yeah right)
Muslims being (Randomly) investigated in an airport (year right)...
Can you really blame SE? everyone is accusing based on stereotypes. You have lots of gils, then there is a high chance of you being an RMT, must investigate!
I'm guessing they wanted to ban all RMT immediately so they won't sell anymore gil during the investigation. Thus resulted in banning non-RMT players as well.
I craft double star HQ items but I use them for myself or FC members so I don't charge as much (havn't gone beyond 3m gil at a single time) so I guess i'm on the safe side :P