Dont kill the lambs!

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Originally Posted by Cycloptichorn

I'm quite sure then, you support not blaming/blisting people for just finishing up the FATE? After all, they are ALSO playing the way it was intended - even if it does 'ruin' YOUR xp. Right?

From the responses in this thread, it seems like most wouldn't agree with your position that we should hold those who are using normal game mechanics blameless for doing so.

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If someone runs up and kills the lambs, generally I give them the benefit of the doubt. Not everyone knows how players are completing this.

People who continually end the FATE early ruining the XP farming, I black list them once I realize their actions are habitual. Plainly put, people who continue that kind of behavior, knowing 100% that it aggravates other people, are assholes.

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Originally Posted by Mishakai

If someone runs up and kills the lambs, generally I give them the benefit of the doubt. Not everyone knows how players are completing this..

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Correction : How those who are in a party and are attempting to prevent the completion of the fate by people who want to complete the fate. You are (by definition) not completing the fate, you are active in your attempts to prevent completion of said fate, completion of the fate is the polar opposite of your intentions and the intentions of your group, so blacklisting someone who are attempting to complete the fate... bit juvenile that.

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Originally Posted by Cycloptichorn

I'm quite sure then, you support not blaming/blisting people for just finishing up the FATE? After all, they are ALSO playing the way it was intended - even if it does 'ruin' YOUR xp. Right?

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I can't control the reactions someone does or does not have. To assume I do gives me more power than I have.

I can only say that the developers have made it clear. DD is working as intended. Farming the mobs is not an exploit. Ending the FATE is not an exploit. However, the issue here isn't which of these two things is or isn't an exploit.

One side is saying it is an exploit, the people doing it are exploiters, and they should be punished by those who run the game.
Another side is saying it isn't an exploit and ending the farm makes you a jerk who should be socially outcast.

One of these is much more severe than the other.

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Originally Posted by Cycloptichorn

I'm quite sure then, you support not blaming/blisting people for just finishing up the FATE? After all, they are ALSO playing the way it was intended - even if it does 'ruin' YOUR xp. Right?

From the responses in this thread, it seems like most wouldn't agree with your position that we should hold those who are using normal game mechanics blameless for doing so.

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Two totally different things. I'm not even sure what one has to do with the other. The exploit argument was because it could lead to banning because of not using the game properly or like the devs intend it to. The blist argument is because if you decide to troll the people doing the zone by killing the lambs.

exploiting and being a douche are two different things

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Originally Posted by Lexxuk

Correction : How those who are in a party and are attempting to prevent the completion of the fate by people who want to complete the fate. You are (by definition) not completing the fate, you are active in your attempts to prevent completion of said fate, completion of the fate is the polar opposite of your intentions and the intentions of your group, so blacklisting someone who are attempting to complete the fate... bit juvenile that.

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how are those in the party attempting to prevent the completion of the fate? by chat? if you are in that zone you are obviously leveling up and therefore you need the xp. You see your chatlog with shouts of people telling everyone "don't kill the lambs" yet you decide to troll them. You are nothing but a troll since you decided to ruin their fun and will be blisted in return. To say that you just want to complete the objective for the seals is a lie. You didn't care about the seals, you wanted people to rage and since you have the power of the internet behind you you know your actions don't represent any harm to you. Yeah they will blist you but it doesn't generate physical pain to you, like a child you do it anyway. No empathy or anything.

basically trolls are going to troll

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Originally Posted by cainejw

By definition, an exploit in a video game is the use of a mechanic that the developers did not intend. They say they've intended this. Ergo it is not an exploit. The developers have said it's not an exploit, it is working as intended, and this is how it is meant to be played.

Don't blame people for playing the game how it was meant to be played and 'ruining' your xp.

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https://www.google.com/search?q=expl...ient=firefox-a 'make full use of, and derive benefit from a resource.'

Come on, it is literally the definition of 'exploit'.

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Originally Posted by Amyas

https://www.google.com/search?q=expl...ient=firefox-a 'make full use of, and derive benefit from a resource.

Come on, it is literally the definition of 'exploit'.

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That is not the context in which you are using the word and you know it. Pretending otherwise is dishonest. You are using it to denote that players are using a mechanic in the game that exists contrary to the intent of the game. You even built it in to your post! You said that people are exploiting and complaining because others are playing the game "the way it was meant."

Frankly, I shouldn't be surprised that you would stoop to such a tactic. You know you're wrong, but you refuse to admit it. You'd rather attempt to play semantics and change the context rather than admit it. You're eventually going to have to stop playing stupid. You are wrong.

Edit: While I'm loathed to use Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploit_(video_gaming)

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Originally Posted by cainejw

That is not the context in which you are using the word and you know it. Pretending otherwise is dishonest. You are using it to denote that players are using a mechanic in the game that exists contrary to the intent of the game. You even built it in to your post! You said that people are exploiting and complaining because others are playing the game "the way it was meant."

Frankly, I shouldn't be surprised that you would stoop to such a tactic. You know you're wrong, but you refuse to admit it. You'd rather attempt to play semantics and change the context rather than admit it. You're eventually going to have to stop playing stupid. You are wrong.

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What? You don't tell me what I meant, okay? I even gave an example (THAT YOU QUOTED) that 'if I was the only player who was capable of x meld I could exploit players of their gil', sorry there are other meanings for words outside of the video game world.

EDIT: I'll even go back and bring up what I said originally "Sorry, you don't want people to finish it early then don't do it yourself. Devs said its working as intended, either way, so just stop it with that argument. :P No one is forcing you to exploit the fate like that (yes, you're exploiting it, no matter what the devs say) "

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Originally Posted by Lexxuk

Correction : How those who are in a party and are attempting to prevent the completion of the fate by people who want to complete the fate. You are (by definition) not completing the fate, you are active in your attempts to prevent completion of said fate, completion of the fate is the polar opposite of your intentions and the intentions of your group, so blacklisting someone who are attempting to complete the fate... bit juvenile that.

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No, blacklisting people who continually interfere with how myself and a few dozen or more other players are getting experience isn't juvenile.

Continually interfering with people who are farming experience because you don't agree with their methods, when there are plenty other fates available for you to complete, is EXTREMELY juvenile, and not the type of person I would ever want to play with, hence the blacklist.

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Originally Posted by Amyas

? I even gave an example that 'if I was the only player who was capable of x meld I could exploit players of their gil'

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I can tell you because you posted it. Right here. Let me quote:

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Don't blame people for playing the game how it was meant to be played and 'ruining' your xp when that is how it was meant to be played.

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Now, you're pretending that you meant exploit in a totally different way. You meant it just as using something for benefit!

Sorry, but your own words belie your pretense that you meant exploit as just benefiting from something. You meant the word "exploit" in one single context: people who are playing the game contra to developer intent, doing something wrong, and then attacking those who you say are playing the game right.

If you are unwilling to accept your own words then you're clearly just trolling at this point.

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Originally Posted by cainejw

I can tell you because you posted it. Right here. Let me quote:




Now, you're pretending that you meant exploit in a totally different way. You meant it just as using something for benefit!

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If you're exploiting, in either the computer security sense or literal sense, its still 'using something for your benefit' :/ It helps if you actually read what I write instead of mewling and antagonizing me. Yes, I'm the one who is trolling. I'm not the one who is literally twisting words around, you are. Sad.
EDIT: Settings > Edit Ignore List
Saves us both the trouble since we are on two separate wave lengths here.

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Originally Posted by Amyas

If you're exploiting, in either the computer security sense or literal sense, its still 'using something for your benefit' :/ It helps if you actually read what I write instead of mewling and antagonizing me. Yes, I'm the one who is trolling. I'm not the one who is literally twisting words around, you are. Sad.
EDIT: Settings > Edit Ignore List

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Yes, you are trolling. You're using the word "exploit" against people who play the game in a way you decided was the "wrong" way. Then you throw up your hands and say, "Whoa ho ho" when someone actually calls you out on using that word in that context. You're a troll who throws a bomb then pretends that you only meant to throw an innocent kitten.

You're wrong. The developers have said you're wrong. You even said you were wrong. But, hey, ignoring someone is easier than accepting that you are wrong, admitting it, apologizing for stigmatizing people who did no wrong, and then moving on.

I don't understand the point of this thread. If the OP just wants to get their exp and move on, they can kill things for two minutes and leave the fate. You still get exp/gil/seals once the fate is successfully completed, even if you aren't in the fate anymore. So why couldn't you just move on after 2 or 3 minutes, get the exp you wanted, and not ruin the exp for people who wanted to spend the time to get more?

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Originally Posted by cainejw

You're wrong. The developers have said you're wrong. You even said you were wrong. But, hey, ignoring someone is easier than accepting that you are wrong, admitting it, apologizing for stigmatizing people who did no wrong, and then moving on.

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You're the one in the wrong though. Go read my original post and you'd know (I even said 'devs said its working as intended, either way' when I said 'how its meant to be played' I really meant that. The game is also meant to be played by 'killing the lambs' /sigh), but no, its easier to call someone a troll and twist their words around than it is to have to use your brain to decipher the meanings of sentences.

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Originally Posted by Kiroh

I don't understand the point of this thread. If the OP just wants to get their exp and move on, they can kill things for two minutes and leave the fate. You still get exp/gil/seals once the fate is successfully completed, even if you aren't in the fate anymore. So why couldn't you just move on after 2 or 3 minutes, get the exp you wanted, and not ruin the exp for people who wanted to spend the time to get more?

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I can get over 80k exp in that fate, there are 3 parts each a different fate. 20k for the first 20k for the second and 40k for the last part. I can easily miss the last parts because they last a minute literally, there I missed 60k exp just because you tell me to go to a different fate after I do my damage. I'm sorry but who are you to decide I'm wrong or anyone else that just wants to do the fate and get out?

My main thing is WHO CARES IF THE FATE ENDS, DONT TREAT PEOPLE LIKE GARBAGE OVER SOME STUPID EXP! seriously had a few people that told me to go kill myself and worse. Trolls dont just become, they are made.

Lol, people are mad they cant power level because someone ruins it for them? Holy shit, I hope the bots come and kill the lambs on all of your servers. Maybe then you'd stop the AoE2Win fest and actually play the game. I've actually done DD as well, and the amount of ridicule someone gets when they kill the lambs, purposely or not, is just beyond stupid. If SE won't stop the imbalance that powerleveling from FATEs is creating in other facets of the game, social aspect MUCH included, then the players have to step in and try to curb it I guess. Most people are paying attention to their golden chat logs, and not their level 20 gear.

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Originally Posted by Amyas

Sorry, you don't want people to finish it early then don't do it yourself. Devs said its working as intended, either way, so just stop it with that argument. :P No one is forcing you to exploit the fate like that (yes, you're exploiting it, no matter what the devs say)

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I don't think I've ever said that it was wrong or incorrect for them to end it. I was saying they're not a cooperative player. So what if you miss out on one FATE (by solo standards), why purposely destroy what the majority are aiming for? There are going to be people who are ignorant of why people like DD, and end up finishing the FATE early. That's fine, whatever. But to purposely end it, knowing that you're just gonna mess everyone else up, well... it's kinda bad character on your part. Do you miss out on full benefits of the first DD FATE? Yes, but only due to circumstance. Again, nothing to do with right and wrong gameplay, just you as a person. Which is, I think, what the whole underlying argument of DD is about.

You really shouldn't misuse "exploit". Perhaps by your warped use of it, it fits though... so I guess that would explain why you feel it's right. Mind you, the definition is right, but the implications is wrong. You're clearly utilizing the word under a negative pretense, which in this case, would make the use wrong (since there's no wrongdoing by anyone... there's no negative pretense to "exploit" as a result). People do exploit DD, but only by meaning of using the FATE to the max potential (to get the most out of it). In that case, it's no different than claiming the solo player is attempting to exploit DD, but always fails to. Why you feel like pointing out that people "exploit" DD is beyond me.

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Originally Posted by Lexxuk

snip

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It's a never ending cycle as far as who's right or wrong. Both sides are right and wrong. As I mentioned, it's just a matter of character. Imagine if, based on your last sentence, the norm was reversed. Everyone was doing the exp grinding, rather than actually finishing the FATE. Would you do the same and follow them with killing mobs for the 15min? Or would you be the lone wolf and take that away from the others, simply because you think they're wrong to do it that way?

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Originally Posted by Mishakai

No, blacklisting people who continually interfere with how myself and a few dozen or more other players are getting experience isn't juvenile.

Continually interfering with people who are farming experience because you don't agree with their methods, when there are plenty other fates available for you to complete, is EXTREMELY juvenile, and not the type of person I would ever want to play with, hence the blacklist.

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But the reverse is also true, you are trying to interfere with solo or low group players who want to complete the fate and get on with all the other Fates in the area. You want to prevent them from getting the XP from completion of Phase 1, then 2, then 3, by telling them to bugger off because "this fate is ours!".

It's not juvenile at all to want to play the game as intended, by following the layout of the Fate, if the Fate says "kill X" and people actually kill X, they are playing the game as intended and not trolling, stating "you can't kill X because we don't want you to, we want the easy XP", that is the issue. *YOU* want the easy XP and everyone else who doesn't agree with you and avoid partaking in content because of that is obviously in the wrong and should be put on /blist instantly, not that it makes much difference, unless they end up /sh HM Titan 7/8, all experienced, looking for TANK - and you miss it because they are on your /blist

But hey, like I said, I'm on Durandal (also a Legacy server but JP) and have never witnessed farming in DD, and if I did witness it, I'd follow the other players who are killing the lambs and ignoring the people who think their XP is more important than everyone else.

This discussion should have ended with this

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Originally Posted by ashikenshin

mod said it's not an exploit: "Hello,

Since there seems to be a lot of questions and concerns as to whether this is an exploit, I wanted to clarify that the way this FATE functions as well as others similar to it are working as intended and it is not an exploit."

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...15#post1329015

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Seriously... just stop.

Like I said before I don't get the rage that people finishing DD causes. hell if people don't kill lambs I'm happy with it and if someone who other people consider a "troll" finish I don't care nor do I get all pissy about it. It's a game after all.

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Originally Posted by Mazley

Like I said before I don't get the rage that people finishing DD causes. hell if people don't kill lambs I'm happy with it and if someone who other people consider a "troll" finish I don't care nor do I get all pissy about it. It's a game after all.

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No! FFXIV is serious business! :mad:

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Originally Posted by Mazley

Like I said before I don't get the rage that people finishing DD causes. hell if people don't kill lambs I'm happy with it and if someone who other people consider a "troll" finish I don't care nor do I get all pissy about it. It's a game after all.

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I don't really care either way as well. It's unfortunate if it does end, but it's not like it won't pop up within the next hour or so if I feel that strongly about it. Although I do sort of rage at my own stupid mistakes. Sort of like what happens when you keep dying in games like Dark Souls or Super Meat Boy.

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Originally Posted by ErBear

Actually it was the first time doing the thing, until after I knew, but because of what garbage people spewed out just because of one fate, be sure ill get people to go kill the lambs now.

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very mature....

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I bet a lot more people would hold off on killing them if the monster claiming was FATE wide. (So everyone shares kill exp, would need to probably reduce the exp a little per mob to prevent a huge boost).


Often times its people who can't get into a party will kill the lambs because there's really no reason why they should wait for your party to get all of the benefit- and QQ that you should wait on them even though there is no reason why you should.

Besides that I think FATE monsters should be FATE wide shared anyways since it will stop the silly strategies of claiming everything first and then often letting other people kill it for you. (Will promote people to play the class as it was intended rather than a claim machine lol)

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This here is likely the biggest reason people end the fate early, and a good solution to fate zergs in general. I haven't done DD yet, but if I am an unable to get much in the way of XP from the mobs, I would do enough to get gold then work on ending the fate. If you are going to exclude people from the mass XP from prolonging the fate, don't expect them to help you keep the flow of XP going.

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Originally Posted by Hawklaser

This here is likely the biggest reason people end the fate early, and a good solution to fate zergs in general. I haven't done DD yet, but if I am an unable to get much in the way of XP from the mobs, I would do enough to get gold then work on ending the fate. If you are going to exclude people from the mass XP from prolonging the fate, don't expect them to help you keep the flow of XP going.

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Why not do enough to get gold medal, then walk away and do something else until the next part?

It's not like you need to be in the fate area to get the end exp. Not only that, ending that fate faster, just means you will go pack to camp and afk for longer until next one pops.

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Originally Posted by Amberion

Why not do enough to get gold medal, then walk away and do something else until the next part?

It's not like you need to be in the fate area to get the end exp. Not only that, ending that fate faster, just means you will go pack to camp and afk for longer until next one pops.

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Because it is a chain fate, and I know how hard it can be to qualify for gold when solo and the fates are being zerged if are not present at the start? If its not a boss fate, mobs can often times die faster than one can target them, which makes it really hard for some jobs to get any credit at all. Plus if solo and not in a group in that zone likely already doing something else and the fate just happened to be in a convenient spot, or might be waiting on a DF queue and pretty sure if fate ends when in a dungeon won't get any credit for it as well.

I love how some of the people in this thread most likely say the community is pretty bad in some way or form. Yet they openly say they will troll a fate where people farm xp just to make people upset yeah and you say you aren't part of the problem. I don't agree people should rage over people who may not know how people farm it and all but doing it to get people upset when you KNOW they are farming xp like it would prove a point or because you don't agree how they level in a game is pretty silly on a higher level this mindless rage over a fate and makes you look like a prick imo. I didn't know player dictate how others can earn xp.

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Originally Posted by Hawklaser

This here is likely the biggest reason people end the fate early, and a good solution to fate zergs in general. I haven't done DD yet, but if I am an unable to get much in the way of XP from the mobs, I would do enough to get gold then work on ending the fate. If you are going to exclude people from the mass XP from prolonging the fate, don't expect them to help you keep the flow of XP going.

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Please explain exactly how you are being excluded? Anybody can hit the mobs that people are farming for XP. Are you looking for a group? Generally within a couple of seconds of shouting that I'm looking for a fate party, someone sends me an invite.

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Originally Posted by Mishakai

Please explain exactly how you are being excluded? Anybody can hit the mobs that people are farming for XP. Are you looking for a group? Generally within a couple of seconds of shouting that I'm looking for a fate party, someone sends me an invite.

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Parties are generally but not always available. Being in a party is a key part of making the mass murder worth it- otherwise you are just maybe getting some kills at a rate entirely not worth it compared to getting the FATE to the next phases.

Though some classes are far better at getting claims than others and if you have the right class and desire to fight the claim wars you can make it solo. Only with the right class abilities and desire to fight everyone else for it. . Just getting the FATE end vs fighting full parties would be much easier lol.

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Originally Posted by Hawklaser

Because it is a chain fate, and I know how hard it can be to qualify for gold when solo and the fates are being zerged if are not present at the start? If its not a boss fate, mobs can often times die faster than one can target them, which makes it really hard for some jobs to get any credit at all. Plus if solo and not in a group in that zone likely already doing something else and the fate just happened to be in a convenient spot, or might be waiting on a DF queue and pretty sure if fate ends when in a dungeon won't get any credit for it as well.

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The DD bosses die really fast too, so you want to be in the area when that FATE finishes - which you can't tell for sure from the timer since someone else could be killing lambs unless you are in the area (not going away as some people would suggest you to do). XD

What selfish douche. Ending a fate with possible 100k worth of exp just so he can move on to other quest -_-

Man remember when MMO's used to take days to level not seconds? I remember those...Now people complain when they might have to take minutes to level.

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Originally Posted by Mishakai

Please explain exactly how you are being excluded? Anybody can hit the mobs that people are farming for XP. Are you looking for a group? Generally within a couple of seconds of shouting that I'm looking for a fate party, someone sends me an invite.

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See Shougun's reply below, plus have to be able to do enough damage to a mob to qualify for experience from them in the first place if you are not the one claiming them.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Parties are generally but not always available. Being in a party is a key part of making the mass murder worth it- otherwise you are just maybe getting some kills at a rate entirely not worth it compared to getting the FATE to the next phases.

Though some classes are far better at getting claims than others and if you have the right class and desire to fight the claim wars you can make it solo. Only with the right class abilities and desire to fight everyone else for it. . Just getting the FATE end vs fighting full parties would be much easier lol.

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...This is a videogame for entertainment right?

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Originally Posted by Gramul

...This is a videogame for entertainment right?

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It's serious business that needs to be completed and thrown away.

You should have named this thread "lambs to the slaughter" that would have been pretty awsome, the irateness in this thread makes me want to kill them when I level up now.

I've never been one to grief people, but something about the way people are acting towards that fate makes me want to make some lamb curry, for great justice.

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Originally Posted by Luthia

Would it really hurt you to skip 9k xp? Instead, you're making them skip a possible 100k worth of xp. Nice to see so many selfish people around here.

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Pot meet kettle....

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Originally Posted by Lafaiel

You should have named this thread "lambs to the slaughter" that would have been pretty awsome, the irateness in this thread makes me want to kill them when I level up now.

I've never been one to grief people, but something about the way people are acting towards that fate makes me want to make some lamb curry, for great justice.

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Aka you want to be part of a problem? ok

No, anyone killing the sheep is not the problem! Damn guys read the Fate objectives so people do the objectives, they are called a troll and ruining the game for others because they are completing the FATE objective. Who is childish now, children don't follow objectives and rules, we forgive them because they are kids and learning. Now we have adults not following an objective and when someone shows up following the objective they are blisted and called to kill self and being a troll. From my experience that is childish to harass players (both directions) but when person just does the FATE objective it is not grounds for reporting or harassing the player for doing what the FATE asked of them.

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Originally Posted by Xmbei

No, anyone killing the sheep is not the problem! Damn guys read the Fate objectives so people do the objectives, they are called a troll and ruining the game for others because they are completing the FATE objective. Who is childish now, children don't follow objectives and rules, we forgive them because they are kids and learning. Now we have adults not following an objective and when someone shows up following the objective they are blisted and called to kill self and being a troll. From my experience that is childish to harass players (both directions) but when person just does the FATE objective it is not grounds for reporting or harassing the player for doing what the FATE asked of them.

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killing the sheep? WHAT?

While I'm completely against angry tells and abuse in a game some people kill the lambs to wind people up.

A guy on Behemoth today was shouting "If no one invites me I'll continue to kill the lambs." Someone invited him to make him stop yet he shouted "You're just doing that because I threatened you. You don't want me in your party"

And then killed the lambs.

That's a bit out of order really.

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Originally Posted by Kal-El

While I'm completely against angry tells and abuse in a game some people kill the lambs to wind people up.

A guy on Behemoth today was shouting "If no one invites me I'll continue to kill the lambs." Someone invited him to make him stop yet he shouted "You're just doing that because I threatened you. You don't want me in your party"

And then killed the lambs.

That's a bit out of order really.

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see that should be reported, but just because someone comes in and starts killing sheep because FATE asked them too, and they don't (possibly) know the xp use of the fate, that person will get harassed and blisted for just doing what was asked of them.