Dark Devices - Exploitation

[GordonLiu]

The problem with this is that a lot of people playing the game are jerks. When someone is killing the xp, it would be nice if the group could let them know how things work without trying to belittle them. That's not the case though, and instead of being receptive, they're trying to out-belligerent the next guy, and now we have a clan of people who sacrifice their own personal time (that should be used improving their own characters, as they ironically accuse others of not-playing properly) in hopes of killing the xp of others.

Make no mistake though, while both sides are being aholes to each other at this point, the people who are spending time trying to ruin this for other people really need to get over it.

[CrimsonJenn]

Actually your wrong about the ninja in XI, it was intended to be a jack of all trades - tank / dps / support. That's why it had the modes for each, tho your right about how we as players did pigeon hole it's potential into being just a tank.

However, not everyone seeks to complete the objective for the sake of being a jerk some people just want the rewards such as seals or just the feeling of completion that goes along with it. Fates in general are a system that needs serious work this one is no exception.

[Rhained]

Actually your wrong about the ninja in XI, it was intended to be a jack of all trades - tank / dps / support. That's why it had the modes for each, tho your right about how we as players did pigeon hole it's potential into being just a tank.

However, not everyone seeks to complete the objective for the sake of being a jerk some people just want the rewards such as seals or just the feeling of completion that goes along with it. Fates in general are a system that needs serious work this one is no exception.

Lolol, this sounds selfish to me, their are countless fates which provide seals.

Heck is it small wonder people try to get as much exp as they can? Either way the most efficient way to level is grinding fates which is utterly mindless and boring, especially after your first class when the alternatives are pathetic.

And ye its not an "exploit" as such, if it was a big deal square enix would have put a stop to it long ago. Whining over a little thing like a small increase in leveling speed in that zone is rediculous.
Does it give people an unfair advantage? no is it an exploit then? no.

[CrimsonJenn]

People seem to not understand what exploitation means, it falls in line with an aspect of strategy to utilize a weakness or flaw in order to improve your effectiveness in an aspect or goal. Which is exactly what is being done with dark devices. It is not cheating, however it is the abuse of a function or aspect of the fate. And i think they have bigger things to worry about then a single fate's abuse. For one a good majority of the content has already been completed let alone the server and gold seller issues. So unless it falls under the catagory of game breaking exploitation like speed runs - where the unintentional heeling of monsters allowed players to skip content, i don't think it will be on their top to do list for some time.

[GordonLiu]

Actually your wrong about the ninja in XI...

Almost every single ability they had was to create and exploit enemy weakness. You're welcome to dig up old threads if you don't believe me, you will find lots of talk about the NIN being used in a way that the developers didn't intend. I even remember the words "elemental fighter" being used to describe them in the official guide. Here, I even have a couple of links for you; the wiki, which explicitly says that it wasn't intended as a tanking job, and a history of FFXI thread that someone made, which contains all the updates, several of which make direct mention of NIN tank being an unexpected phenomenon.

[GordonLiu]

Anyway, the point wasn't to talk about NIN, but to point out that when players do something unexpected, SE act or don't act accordingly. No matter what they intended with DD (or any number of other FATEs that can be used similarly) they don't seem to be concerned about the way it's being used, and they are addressing real exploits already.

My remark about people being jerks by completing it ASAP is referring to people who clearly stated in this very thread that they do that. Or people who openly state it in-game as they do it. I didn't say everyone, I referred to "the people who are spending time..." Those people are very real. Seals drop on most FATEs I've seen, and there are plenty of other ways of obtaining it; no other way to earn that kind of xp. If someone is knowingly doing it on the single FATE where people can get huge xp, and is claiming to do so to expedite their "feeling of completion", that someone is being disingenuous.

[CrimsonJenn]

No, they are addressing issues based on priority of severity. And Ninja had a specific stance that improved enmity and lowered damage output not to mention merits that improved enmity of ninjitsu (also inversely had ones that reduced it), they wouldn't have these tools available if they were unintended to have the potential to tank. And it was never intended to be a primary tanking job, It was intended to be a jack of all trades most of the zilart jobs were designed around this concept.

So you would force others to play in a method to the liking of the masses? Just do it because everyone else does? Fall in line with us or pay? No. Everyone has the right to play the way they want, whether they want to exploit a fate for exp or complete a fate for rewards, we all play the game to have fun and each persons view of fun is different. And SE has a history of failing to address issues even severe ones, its remarkable they even addressed the AK one as fast as they did.

[Noahlimits]

The main argument I see is that leveling through other means does not make you know your class better; this is something I want to argue. If they made dungeoning the primary way to get exp, people would learn their jobs better at lower levels. Sure, there are people that get carried through storyline dungeons, but if you had to use PUGs to primarily level? That'd be a different story. It'd force the DPS players who insist on pulling, healers that over heal, and tanks who try to pull with Flash, quickly learn the correct way to play (or suffer many, many wipes).

While doing the level 47 Molboro quest is a good 130k exp per run (and really fast/easy for even average players), it takes around 45 minutes and bad parties will wipe, hopefully making you a better player by realizing what you're doing wrong. Doing this fate 'exploit/whateveryouwannacallit' gets you 130k exp in 10-15 minutes by pressing one button over and over in the same spot.

I'm not really opposed to people doing it for exp. I mean, whatever. If SE wants to nerf it I encourage it. If not, I encourage that too. While I agree "bad players are just bad players" to be true, some players could really benefit to having to do a moderately difficult dungeon to level. Let's face it: pick up groups are always going to be hit or miss. But if people rush to 50, I'm under the opinion that it'll be more "miss" than "hit." I even previously reported this, but mainly due to leveling with 50's who didn't know how to target or mark enemies without explicit instructions. :|

TLDR: I don't care how people wanna play the game, I just hate how it effects later game PUGs. If it's your 2nd, 3rd+ class, have fun. You're likely a good player already. I just want better players in the community.

[GiseleValkyrie]

ive been reported by 10 off people after ruining 3 so far blacklisted by over 100 people, im doing our cause proud

Its quite amusing you think you are doing some justice when in fact you are no better then the people who troll or yell at others in runs but what ever makes you feel high and mighty

[Camate]

Hello,

Since there seems to be a lot of questions and concerns as to whether this is an exploit, I wanted to clarify that the way this FATE functions as well as others similar to it are working as intended and it is not an exploit.