Just when I thought DF couldn't get any worse...

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Originally Posted by Leiloni

I've said it before and I'll say it again - Duty finder is a random group finder where the majority of the time people want to do speed runs. If you want to enjoy the story, either a)do it with friends so you don't have to annoy the DF groups, or b)watch the cutscenes in your Inn room.

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This is probably the best instance I have seen thus far, of stupidity and self-righteousness in the same sentence. It kind of made me giggle.

Did you just use the word random, and then pair it with the term "majority of the time"?

For one, how exactly do you know wtf most people want to do? You don't, so stop assuming it makes you sound even more idiotic. RANDOM people use the duty finder, so their goals in usage of said finder are also just as random. If YOU jump into a system that pairs you with random people, do not walk in all high and mighty and think you are going to change the way people play because YOU don't agree with it. YOU are a great example of the reason regular people who try and enjoy games get perturbed with their experience and decide to ruin it for many others.

It goes both ways pal. If YOU want to do your precious speed runs, than YOU do them with YOUR friends and stop ruining the game's story experience for others who are trying to follow along. Oh, haha, that is assuming you have friends. Sorry, I won't be like you and just assume your way is right and all others are inferior.

"The people who sit and make an entire group wait because they have to watch that cutscene" are people that are gaining more out of the experience than a f&^*$% tomestone. I watch a cutscene once, than I skip it any other time I do the dungeon. You won't catch me bitching at anyone who wants to immerse into the story, even though I skipped it. If you don't like it, stop using the DF. Arrogant responses like the one you made will turn people into trolls, trust that.

Sure glad I don't have to duty find with you. Thanks for making different groups SE!!!

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Originally Posted by Leiloni

Duty finder is a random group finder where the majority of the time people want to do speed runs. If you want to enjoy the story, either a)do it with friends so you don't have to annoy the DF groups, or b)watch the cutscenes in your Inn room.

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Or, you know, you could do your precious endgame in a non-storyline dungeon. S'the matter? Scared of AK? A lot of the people running CM and Prae are people which're in for completing the main scenario- and they have every right to watch the cutscenes without being whined at and having their experience ruined by jerks like you, especially considering they're paying exactly the same per month as you, and the dungeons can be cleared with time to spare for cutscenes and strategy. Stop ruining it for them - or better yet - take your own advice. Do speedruns with your friends.

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Originally Posted by Vino

I believe there's a need for a world-wide shitlist, and soon.

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I understand the desire for it, but I just don't see that being helpful. Square Enix themselves would never in a million years support anything like that, so it would have to be some "trusted" unofficial, off-site sub-group. It would undoubtedly degenerate into a "he said, she said" witch-hunt where people just make up stories and rumours. There would be false accusations, photoshopped "screen shots" or "chat logs" submitted just to troll innocent people, and even the truly guilty ones who deserve to be there would deny any such things took place. In the end, all you'd have are thousands of strangers arguing over things that may or may not have happened.

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Originally Posted by Snorgrind

cross server blacklist is needed to filter out idiots.

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I was surprised to find out this wasn't possible. Until today, I assumed there was some method of doing it through the Lodestone, at least. Nope! :-(
I agree that a cross-server blacklist would be valuable, though it is still a band-aid solution and not a replacement for filing a report to a GM. Assuming it would prevent you from matching with that player again in DF, it's not like you would suddenly get priority in the dungeon queue over them. The victim is basically the one taking the hit, potentially delaying their own queue as more and more names get added to the list.

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Originally Posted by Vynym

I see quite a few people (in this post and others) that say "They will be gone soon" and I'm wondering why people think that is? Is it to be expected that a lot of the more negative people will leave once the free time is over? Or is it something else?

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There's no way to know what people will do. It kind of makes sense that some might leave after their free time is up, but money has never been an obstacle for people who want to be jerks. It sounds like all the trolls seem to be hovering around endgame content already, though. I'd wager it's more likely they will leave after the first month purely out of boredom. They're probably here because this is the new, shiny MMO. They'll have their fun, and then be off to the new GTA or Call of Duty.

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Originally Posted by Aegis

I didn't believe the DF naysayers when they first predicted the introduction of DF would ruin the community. Well, it has.

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You make it sound like they weren't going to be jerks and trolls, if not for Duty Finder. We all know that's not true. These people are going to be out there, with or without DF. Granted, the problem has been exacerbated because it forces us to interact with these idiots on a regular basis, and the devs seemingly just released Duty Finder "as is," without any sort of safeguards or countermeasures. In my opinion, it was a little irresponsible to set up this lawless, Wild West style frontier and not include even so much as a Vote to Kick option, a more robust player reporting system, or a cross-server blacklist of any kind.
As improvements get patched in, and the novelty of trolling dungeons just for the heck of it wears off, we will see less and less of this problem.

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

1) Do not allow chest opening until certain mobs are killed
2) Award end of dungeon loot (tomes) only to people that actually participate in all bosses (from the participants point of entry, in case they join mid-dungeon)
3) Boss chest loot only lottable by participants in the boss battle

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1) Agreed. Why could someone open a chest while in combat, anyway? That seems wrong.
2&3) Agreed, though they have to make sure players can't get locked out of boss rooms if other party members charge ahead without them. I understand being locked in the room, but locked out? What is the point of that?

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Originally Posted by rubina

How is OP supposed to know which server that player originated from?

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Don't need to, really. Include the time/date, and which dungeon it was, and I assume the GMs can easily tell who they were partied with.

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Originally Posted by Vino

I believe there's a need for a world-wide shitlist, and soon.

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I think there should be a list on the forums with names and what server. Apparently they need the attention we just as we'll give it to them.

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Originally Posted by JayCommon

Did you just use the word random, and then pair it with the term "majority of the time"?

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Yes, because it's only your first time ONCE. After that if you queue again, it's either for gear or tomestones. So the majority of players are there for a repeat of the dungeon. Eventually there will be very few people doing it for the first time. It's just logic. Unless there's a mass influx of new players, the majority of players will always be on repeat runs.

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Originally Posted by Leiloni

Yes, because it's only your first time ONCE. After that if you queue again, it's either for gear or tomestones. So the majority of players are there for a repeat of the dungeon. Eventually there will be very few people doing it for the first time. It's just logic. Unless there's a mass influx of new players, the majority of players will always be on repeat runs.

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I have never requeued for a run I've done before for the gear and for the tomestones. I've done it because (1) I want to pay it forward and help out others who are running for the first time, and (2) because I enjoyed the dungeon/primal fight in the first place and want to do it again.

Thank you for trying to speak for everyone, which includes me. Please stop.

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Originally Posted by Avalon_Albrook

I have never requeued for a run I've done before for the gear and for the tomestones. I've done it because (1) I want to pay it forward and help out others who are running for the first time, and (2) because I enjoyed the dungeon/primal fight in the first place and want to do it again.

Thank you for trying to speak for everyone, which includes me. Please stop.

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I'm talking about farming for gear at level 50 and in order to do that you need to farm mass amounts of tomestones, which means at level 50 people farm the same few dungeons over and over. Not leveling dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Leiloni

I'm talking about farming for gear at level 50 and in order to do that you need to farm mass amounts of tomestones. Not leveling dungeons.

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Who the hell farms gear in CM/Prae?

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Originally Posted by faris

Who the hell farms gear in CM/Prae?

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CM earns you 100 Tomestones and is the fastest and easiest way to do so, especially with the speed run nerf to AK. The large majority people I run across both in DF and in /shout chat (as well as my entire guild), are farming CM for their tomestones. In case you forgot, Tomestones of Philosophy earn you Darklight gear which is the first set you'll want to earn after hitting 50.

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Originally Posted by Leiloni

Yes, because it's only your first time ONCE. snip .

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You are missing the entire point. You have no right whatsoever to tell people to stop watching cutscenes, whether it is their first time or their 100th time. They have the right to watch it as many times as they want, and if it pisses you off so bad then leave the CS watchers there, and see how far you make it into the dungeon alone. People playing this game alone have no choice but to use the duty finder. Not everyone is privileged enough to start this game from the beginning with other friends that are playing. That being said, if you are level 50 and farming tomestones for your end game gear, chances are you have met some people that you regularly group with along the way. If you haven't, it's possibly a product of this poor attitude you carry.


Either way, if people watching CS is such a burden to you, find a premade group and do your speed runs without the worry. But you telling people to stop watching the CS as they happen in the dungeon is only going to make them want to do it just to piss you off.

I saw this in Halatali, healer said they were looking only for hunting log - Firemane, once it was dead they bounced. I couldn't help but laugh.

You had a limited experience in WoW, thus you find this the worst you've ever seen.

I've been in WoW since 2006. A healer for the first year, then a tank for the rest with healing as my 'alt option'.

I've seen MUCH MUCH MUCH worse than this. And usually 2 to 3 times a week when I'm active over there. And that's coming as a tank - where I have control over the dungeon and queues. I'm sure the DPS over there have even more horror stories than me.

This sadly, will only continue.

The game has an LFD / Duty Finder tool. I saw a video before buying where the devs said "We love the duty finder tool as it lets anyone play together, and our community are nicer people so it won't have issues" and I thought to myself... "you guys are thinking very wishfully there..."


Unless they bring in account-based accountability: blacklist by account, and a publicly viewable record of how many times someone has been blacklisted... plus and ability to 'not DF queue with anyone who has X more blacklistings than me'... The issue will not resolve.


What I would do as a developer:

1: Blacklist works by account across server.
2: To blacklist someone requires entering 50 to 150 characters of why, or it won't black list them. The entry will not accept names of people.
3: Lodestone shows all your blacklistings, and the reasons, but not who did it.
4: Lodestone shows a list of all blacklistings you have put on people, and what you put in why, but not who.
5: DF won't queue you with someone you blacklisted. Option, default on.
6: DF won't queue you with someone who has blacklisted you. NOT optional.
7: DF won't queue you with someone who has 20 more or 20 less blacklistings than you. Option, default on.
8: DF won't queue you with someone who had blacklisted 50 more people than you have blacklisted. Option, default on.
9: If you put a name into your 'why' for blacklisting (such as through special characters), people can report this, and if found to be the case, you'd get a 7-day account suspension followed by a 30-day block from using DF.

- Accountability, or DF will ruin the community.

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Makeda is right. The whole dungeon finder allowed the trolls/jerks to come out of the woodwork. When you can only group on a server it only takes a few bad runs and a few threads to warn people about you. The community of MMO's is self policing for behavior. That person from the original post would probably never pull that trick because he would know he would never see another group after he had been shamed on multiple sites.

The biggest trouble is that DDs are a dime a dozen, but healers and tanks, not so much. Because of this, people will queue as a healer or tank just to get a duty in shorter time so they can get what they want and split. Happened a couple of times with some folks. It's annoying and completely sours the vibe of the community. There's nothing wrong with gunning for a specific piece of gear or item, but at least see the quest through to the finish. You have to consider that there are others in there with you.

And also, for the speed-running, cutscene complainers, you SHOULD run with a preset group. Think about it: you want a reliable speed-run through the dungeon, which means you're going to want a setup that can best deliver that. Grouping with random people will likely not give you that. In that regard, DF is a bad option for a speed-run. Find a static team and smash CM or AK for your tomestones/loot. You get your speed-run, others get their immersion, everybody wins.

We need a system to deter this mindless douchery right? Hold on while a borrow a bunch of things and make them awesome.

Ahem

Presenting the new FFXIV AR Indictment system (yes I borrowed Darks Souls indictment system since it gave me a great idea).

What is this Mr. Iskander?

In short, Its a system thatll deter douchery in instances through threat of notoriety and long queue times.

How it works:

Lets say you go into an instance and you come across a tank like the one the OP had. When he leaves, a message pops up for the other 3 players. It'll say "Indict (player)?" If you say yes, the player gets an indictment point on his character. For each indictment point (up to 4), the wait for next queue increases by 15 min. SO now that guy has to wait 30 min to DF again. If they have 4+, they get a 60 min cooldown for each time they get indicted. If one person clicks that yes button, you get an indictment point.

"But then they'll just afk..."

Yep, which is why there's a nice little function where if you select a party member, you can choose to start a vote to kick and indict that afker. But wait, there's more! it can only be done in random queues, and it has to be a majority vote (3/4 or 5/8). You want to go with a couple people or a full premade? That's Fine. But you can't start a vote on each other.

But that's not all! Those who are tagged with First Timer Syndrome in instances are immune from kick indictment. No worrying about being in trouble for watching your cutscenes. However, you only get one reprieve from this. Firsties are subject to leave indictment and if they are, they lose their kick indictment immunity.

But we haven't finished yet! Let's add a nice board in the main cities that allows players to see who's wracked up the most indictment points. The douchers from around the servers can have their names shown around the cities for players to know who's been the biggest griefer in the game.

We can have these points reset once per week.

SE wants to put in an MVP system.

Well how about having each MVP vote up knock off one indictment point. You don't want your name on the board? Start helping people.

I suspect the local server party finder/matcher that they're talking about for 2.1 or 2.2 will deal with this somewhat.. the desperate will use DF, the rest will use party matcher and good luck being a douche if you go that route.

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Originally Posted by Iskander

SNIP

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That sounds worse than what we already have

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Originally Posted by Tolmos

I would say you definitely can get reported for that. Not only is he subverting the purpose of DF and screwing over an entire group (which, if he has done it more than once, could be construed as griefing), he's also exploiting by running past the mobs to get a chest that he is actually required to kill said mobs for. And again- all at the expense of his group.

This is the picture perfect example of something a person can, and should, be reported for.

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I reported a troll for something like this the other day, two at that. The response I got was that "there isn't a rule or policy that regards actions player must take to fulfill the role of their job/class." Basically saying there's nothing they can do about it. True that they should be able to be reported for it, but if SE says they can't do a thing about it, what can you do? :/

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Originally Posted by Vynym

SO I know there are good people out there that use DF.But I guess we're a minority? I dunno.

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Don;t be discouraged OP. I just got out of a DF ran Garuda Hard Mode that lasted almost 90 minutes! We had a new tank and we all banded as a group, with encouragement, each attempt getting us closer and closer to victory until we finally downed her. Sure it took 90 minutes, but this is a game and I was having fun because of the great people who qued with me. Grats to the SCH who got his book :P

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Originally Posted by Leiloni

Yes, because it's only your first time ONCE. After that if you queue again, it's either for gear or tomestones. So the majority of players are there for a repeat of the dungeon. Eventually there will be very few people doing it for the first time. It's just logic. Unless there's a mass influx of new players, the majority of players will always be on repeat runs.

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You've got a really backward ass way of looking at things. That's a logical fallacy. You put the counter-argument right in that post. "because it's only your fire time ONCE". Which is exactly why anyone claiming duty finder is for speedruns is a moron and that they should group up on their own server with a group of first-timers is ridiculously illogical. Eventually, there will be very few people doing it for the first time, even less on one's own server (with no world chat either). Making a group without duty finder (for first timers) will eventually be impossible.

I have no problem with people who want to watch cutscenes since it's their first time. However, fail to get along and start going to one extreme or the other and be an asshole during a Praetorium run and you'll find yourself short a tank for the last 5 bosses. Be an asshole about either watching the cutscenes or be an asshole about other people watching them, either way you're still an asshole and I don't have time for that.

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Originally Posted by Cryptomiser

I hate to be the rude dude here, but that may have been your fault. I have characters on Leviathan, and I've chatted around and have had little to no negative experience with whom I've chatted with, no matter where or who I've talked to. I hate to point this out, but your character there may be the issue. It is an unoriginal idea to simply create a clone of a character already existing within the series.

With such a thriving roleplay community, I can understand why people don't want to see a Rinoa clone in a game series where she made an appearance. Especially since this game follows the design of the older games, before VII. I'm not saying it's right to be so judgemental, but I can tell you why you may be addressed in such a light.

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lol?!!?! People haven't been rude to me. I see them being rude to others though. Wtf. this is the most ridiculous thing I've heard. No one ever even said anything bad about the name I picked in the game. I get a lot of nice comments actually..lol ;o

Tried to run Ifrit hardmode this morning, but was met with a warrior troll that decided he just wanted to queue into group and scream "Leory Jenkins" as he aggros Ifrit and repeatidly wipes the group. Even after accepting the 15 min penalty, I kept getting matched up with this warrior in subsequent queues.

The whole experience left a sour taste in my mouth. Such a shame really.

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Originally Posted by Itseotle

Don;t be discouraged OP. I just got out of a DF ran Garuda Hard Mode that lasted almost 90 minutes! We had a new tank and we all banded as a group, with encouragement, each attempt getting us closer and closer to victory until we finally downed her. Sure it took 90 minutes, but this is a game and I was having fun because of the great people who qued with me. Grats to the SCH who got his book :P

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Thank you for the encouragement. Once in a while I get a group like the one you detailed. Groups like what you described should be the norm, not the exception. It's sad that it's not the norm. I can't help but feel that this is how groups *should* be. Even trolls had a first time in all of these instances. They too had to learn the strats and etc. I assume that they must have had at least some groups that extended them the courtesy of teaching them the ropes (and watching the cs's) that they now deny all subsequent groups. Anyway, I digress.