This is why quest markers make the game for 2 year olds

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Originally Posted by Majidah

I'm not going to gimp myself in order to make the game more challenging. I will make use of all the tools that they provide me with.

Not using the map function is like suggesting I use a low level weapon to make fights more challenging instead of keeping my gear up to date. Or covering my HP bar with a piece of paper so I have to guess how much health I have left.

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Not really because you can generally get all the info you need from reading the quest text. How would not using it be any different than it not existing?

Anything that ensures i wont ever be going outside the game to a community website for information is fine by me, thats where the immersion is completly broken for me, its not needed for stuff like obvious locations within a city so much, but out in the middle of a place as big as any of the 3 areas such as thanalan, thats for the most part a bland big area with no real landmarks aside from camps helps enough to stop me poping outside the game quickly and back in real quickly. Im sure there was hundreds of times within playing Xi where this instance occurred for me and many. Mabey a toggle could be added if this ever gets to be a major issue for them to put time aside to develop.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

I said "Do they think we're lazy and stupid?" not "EVERYONE IS LAZY AND STUPID!!". I assume everyone isn't lazy and stupid, but the game ENCOURAGES us to be that way, why? I don't want to be lazy, I don't want to be handheld to level50/75/100/whatever. Do you? I want to feel challenged.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leading_question

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikiped...introduce_bias

Jesus, do you not even see the irony in what you're posting? It's more insulting to my intelligence that you're implying that I'm learning anything off a damn game. Being able to see a marker isn't going to affect my personality and make me a lazier person or whatever.

Seriously, who cares? Go do something else instead of whining about something so utterly insignificant.

EDIT: Also, your idea of a 'challenge' has been warped by FFXI. Having to look things up in an online wiki is not a challenge. Of course you might argue that you NEVER USED ONE and did it ALL BY YOURSELF, to which I would say; BS.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

I don't like the markers because
A) I don't find them necessary... I'm "one of them readers" who likes to take in what the NPC is telling me, follow the clues and figure things out for myself.
B) They're an eye-sore to me adding more clutter to the game world than, I think, is needed.
C) They have this tendency to make it feel less like a "world" where these NPCs are actual citizens, and more like a "game" where they're simply cardboard cut-out quest dispensers.

That said... I know there are others who find them handy, even necessary (sad as I find it in those cases). And so I could live with them being there..

I would just request an option to toggle them on or off. This way those who like to have them up can have them. Those of us who don't can hide them.

Everyone's happy.

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I don't mind them being on my map, but I would prefer they not be floating over NPCs heads. I would make use of an option to turn them off.

Talk about highfalutin (marginal troll), The game Journal and maps are a huge improvement over 11. Its a game, try to keep that in mind. Nobody is babying you. Lazy is not mowing the yard and playing ffxiv all Saturday :), your talking about "helpful" the game is too "helpful" what a terrible crime......

So there are a variety of quest types already in the game and hopefully they will use the various mechanisms to offer more challenging content in the future, as well as add new quest mechanisms:

Side Quest types:
- Instanced - you get to a region and it puts you in an instance for a special battle - Location to enter instance marked on map - in this case you pretty much need to stand on the exact spot to trigger so map makes sense - challenge should be via difficult/interesting battle

- Kill X Special Mobs quest - the spot indicated is the exact location of the special mob type - challenge should be via diffiuclt/interesting battle with unique mob

- Kill X Normal Mobs quest - the spot indicated is the general region for the normal mobs (ie...Galagos near Tranquil) - apparently challenge is in finding X of the normal mob, which are suddenly hunted to extinction

- Visit NPC quests - the spot indicated is the exact spot - this type of quest I'd like to see switched to general region marker, with the use of clues to identify who I might need to talk to

That's all I can think of, there may be more types...

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Originally Posted by Majidah

It really isn't. Its more like taking an exam with the answer written right after the question.

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It really isn't. Exams are something you take that get graded and count towards your progression as a student or success in a field. They actually mean something because they are testing you on your knowledge or ability.

Quests are something you do for fun. They don't matter at all. You could just as easily not do them, or not look at the answer, and still have just as much fun (assuming you have fun in different aspects of an MMO or RPG). Perhaps you do quests as a hobby, or simply to pass the time.

Sometimes Quests are something in your way from a goal, and you don't think they're fun. You just want to get "Hand of the Gods" and you don't give 2 cents about a sleeping Elezen kid. You just want someone to basically do the Quest for you as quickly as possible so you can get to your goal.

So you see, Quests and Exams are nothing alike. I hate bad analogies.

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Originally Posted by Majidah

There's a good example that disproves this.
There's a quest in gridania in which a follower of a god asks you to find certain NPCs and hear their sins. He gives you clues as to where to find them.

Then you click the map button and it tells you exactly where they are.

Reducing what could have been a rewarding quest into go run to that place I'm pointing out and come back.

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Well, you could have simply not looked at the Journal Map and wandered all around and not robbed yourself of that reward just as easily. You should have known the map would show you exactly where they are. It has every time before that.

Also it's nothing like not looking at your HP bar for additional challenge. You're complaining about a thing that's optional.

I don't even have a word for that.

The only thing i hate is your posts complaining about everything. Shiyo you are MY quest marker. i want it gone!!!!!

OT they are not bothering anyone so please shhhhhhhhhh forever.......

Also SE is not stupid.. every single person looked online for where to go next in every quest in FF11.... and they know that. why make us do that again? Modern MMos are fun not time sinks. Also Shiyo if you played FF11 you used the external quest marker all the time just like everybody esle (a PC and a site call ala)

The quest map in the journal window is since beta ingame. If you don't want to use it, then don't push the button and open the normal map only.
I did the R20 leatherworker quest too, and I didn't needed to open the quest map and the normal map because I knew where the chocobo is.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

Not really because you can generally get all the info you need from reading the quest text. How would not using it be any different than it not existing?

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well thats wrong because not all quest text tell you where to go.

I like the quest thingies. :3 Im all for making the user interface more user friendly.

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Originally Posted by Majidah

There's a good example that disproves this.
There's a quest in gridania in which a follower of a god asks you to find certain NPCs and hear their sins. He gives you clues as to where to find them.

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He gives clues, that's right. But these clues don't show up in the journal text.
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/7511/questgl.jpg

If you forget the clues you can't just re-read it in the journal text.

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Originally Posted by Majidah

There's a good example that disproves this.
There's a quest in gridania in which a follower of a god asks you to find certain NPCs and hear their sins. He gives you clues as to where to find them.

Then you click the map button and it tells you exactly where they are.

Reducing what could have been a rewarding quest into go run to that place I'm pointing out and come back.

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Do you know what most people would've done if there had been no map journal? They would've looked up the quest on a wiki or database. The information and the walkthrough have always been available outside of the game. Most people have always used them.

If you were one of the few that never looked up what to do... guess what? You can keep on taking that approach.

First off, the OP wasn't talking about the quest markers directly, but rather a particular quest that literally drew a path like Billy on Family Circus. This was explained and resolved earlier in the thread.

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Originally Posted by Majidah

There's a good example that disproves this.
There's a quest in gridania in which a follower of a god asks you to find certain NPCs and hear their sins. He gives you clues as to where to find them.

Then you click the map button and it tells you exactly where they are.

Reducing what could have been a rewarding quest into go run to that place I'm pointing out and come back.

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No one has to pull up the map. People can play Encyclopedia Brown if they want to.

I'd actually love to see more quests like that myself.

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Originally Posted by Jocko

Shiyo, I agree with a number of you points. I think that the journey is more important than the reward, and I agree that the game could stand to up the difficulty in a number of areas. At the same time, a number of conveniences should be added to prevent players from just looking up the information via a website, much like what everyone did in XI. It's important to find a proper balance.

I think the best way to handle this is to bold key locations and items in the text of the quest information, and adjust the map to make locations easier to spot. In instances of quests wanting you to find some random spot in the desert, I think the quest information should give you it's coordinates, instead of placing a quest marker on the map. Using these methods, the game gives more than enough information, and at the same time does not lead you directly to your goal.

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I stopped reading after this post cause its filled with Greater Essence of Win and Truth!

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Originally Posted by Jocko

I think the best way to handle this is to bold key locations and items in the text of the quest information, and adjust the map to make locations easier to spot. In instances of quests wanting you to find some random spot in the desert, I think the quest information should give you it's coordinates, instead of placing a quest marker on the map. Using these methods, the game gives more than enough information, and at the same time does not lead you directly to your goal.

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They can do that as long as I get a cute magnifying glass and tweed cap for my character. :)

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Originally Posted by Chezen

First off, the OP wasn't talking about the quest markers directly, but rather a particular quest that literally drew a path like Billy on Family Circus. This was explained and resolved earlier in the thread.

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The OP should know, that the journal map show the location where he should going.
Maybe he opened the wrong map, but he even didn't know where the chocobo is in the first place without a map.

Lets throw more crap at SE so we can stall them on working on the actual, more important updates! \o/ Thats what we truly need right? Cmon guys! Who's with me? I already have one member on my side who i am very proud of! My best buddy Shiyo!