Please buff Succor.

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Originally Posted by kronpas

hehe, you just describe the exact issue here: SCH is merely a bonus. WHM+WHM is manageable. SCH+WHM is great. SCH+SCH = crippled raid. Shield and dome aint game breaker tools, unlike WHM's AoE tool set which happens to be the requirement for the majority of hardmode fights and up. If you can find a SCH/WHM pair your run will be optimal. If not, your fallback plan is 2 WHMs, your raid might struggle, but definitely passable. Stuck with 2 SCH? Tough luck, lol.

Even in WoW healers aint equal. Holy priest shines in 25m, most switch to disc for 10m. Holy pal is always a requirement for 25m tank healing. However unlike this game priest is a unique healing class with 2 healing tree to switch at will (albeit not optimal with the same set of gear), they are willing to switch to meet the demand. Plus, WoW got an excellent fight battle designing team that allows for a very flexible healing composition (unless its cutting edge progression fights).

As I always said, level an SCH to feel the pain yourself. A WHM saying SCH is fine? Why am I so surprised?

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Whm+Whm is imo better then sch+whm perhaps until they fix the faerie. Whm+whm has its strengths over sch+ whm and the way the endgame is designed favours 2 whm .

Double whm's strength is
Immense passive raid healing, giving whms more time to spot heal and tank heal
Higher potency heals along with higher base healing by around 40hp(test it yourselves).
Higher burst healing
more control over their cooldowns and healing direction
much longer uptime on "divine seal" along with a better way to utilize it (regeneration snap shots)
Larger aoe radius

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who has more time to heal the tank/others?
the whm who spends 2.5 sec casting for 200+500 potency hp healed in 15 seconds
or the sch who spends 12.5 sec casting for 750 potency hp healed with a temporary 150 shield left over.

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2 whm large healing per cast healing simply gives them more time to outheal and provide more healing output in a smaller time phase. Then having a sch would . Sch spends more GCDs casting to reach the same amount of healing. The amount mitigated by sch's 50% uptime of -10% damage reduction within a small circle does not even begin to bridge the gap.

Because of how much extra time sch wastes casting spells. Whm is the better tank and raid healer atm. IF SE fix and allow sch more control over the faerie sch may catch up or beat whm in tank healing(though still be behind in raid healing). However se have not annouced fixes and we only have speculation on how they may fix the faeries.

At the moment the healing required for coil 1,2 ,3 and 4 is still very forgiving with plenty of time to waste gcds (not sure about coil 5 or 6) The real test of healing will be when there is fight where wasting even 1 gcd will result in falling too far behind.

Not to reuse a phrase, but, as an aspiring SCH myself (please don't look at the man behind the curtain, he's my legacy character that I used day one so I could actually post [on reflection... I can probably change that now]), I kind of view SCH at end game like a BRD. BRDs are support damage dealers (ideally), and I doubt you would see any self respecting party say "We need a BRD instead of a LNC/BLM/MNK" unless special circumstances called for it. No, BRDs shine brightest when they are accompanied by other DDs. That being said, you never see a BRD complaining that... Ok, maybe I can't finish that sentence... but most BRDs seem quite content with their lot as support Damage dealers.

I view SCH similarly, we can heal alone, but we are at our best when supporting another healer. That's not something that we should be disappointed about, but revel in. It's our own little niche; and what makes the job interesting. In the interest of full disclosure, I'm only level 34, so I don't have Succor yet. I am, in fact, a baby of a SCH, but I love the job, and I think there's nothing wrong with playing second fiddle to WHM; after all, parties aren't an aria, they're an orchestra, sometimes what you need is a second fiddle.

As for Succor, as I said, I don't have it yet, but from what I have read here, I agree it could probably use some more utility. On the other hand, there are plenty of party members that rarely, if ever, get hit, except on first engagement - if something goes wrong - such as BLMs. As a low level SCH, I would find an AoE prebuff for the party to prevent early disasters invaluable.

Lest someone think I am hiding behind a different character, my actual character is Alec Temet @ Midgarsormr

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Originally Posted by kronpas

As I always said, level an SCH to feel the pain yourself. A WHM saying SCH is fine? Why am I so surprised?

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SCH is fine. As long as optimal is one of each- IT'S FINE. When raids are forced to take 2 of one class, they are doing so because they have to and can't get the optimal setup. If stacking WHM or SCH was optimal, then there would be a problem. Being forced to take two of a class because that is all you have and having that be a little less painful with 2 whms is not a problem. If there was a SCH around, they would have taken them.

TLDR: NO ONE IS GETTING BENCHED.

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Originally Posted by Valiant

all SE needs to do to SCH to help it is what they did to WHM... medica 1 - 300 CP... medica 2 - 200 CP plus 100CP as regen... where as a SCH would have succor1 150 + aldo and succor 2 300 CP.

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So, the answer is to homogenize and just give WHM abilities to SCH? Hilarious. (Should they delete WHM class while they are at it?) There would be a trade off.. say good bye to your fairy and sacred soil. Also, expect it to take a chunk of Etherflow stacks. so you can't spam it without limits, since mana isn't an issue.

Or you could just roll a whm, instead of trying to get everything from both classes on one OP class.

-I'm not surprised to see the WoW comparisons in the discussion. It comes from the same desire to homogenize the heck out of everything, until choosing a class is pointless. Please go back to WoW and stop trying to make all classes the same here. You don't have to re-roll a character to change classes- so different classes are different.

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Originally Posted by Hulan

*snip*

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I fully agree. I have been lvling WHM first. Around lvl 4x I stopped to go level my SCH. The thing I noticed immediately, was that WHM was much more versatile. WHM is the healer you want if something goes unplanned. Both healers are great for 4 man parties, but when it comes to raids, WHM is the first healer to look for. WHM is obviously the main healer, and the SCH is there for support/backup. White Mages run out of MP pretty easily if they spam all their skills, but a Scholar can last about 3x longer before they have to wait on their aether flow's cd to finish. A WHM with no MP becomes quickly crippled, because they don't have a way to quickly regain MP without a Bard. In the time that the WHM is conserving MP, a SCH can keep the party going and prevent a wipe.

... SE MAKE THE CHARACTER LIMIT BIGGER PLEASE D:

The only thing that needs to be worked on for Scholar, is the fairy. They just need 3 things fixed. Steady to continue using only Embrace even after ordering them to use another skill, and the ability to have the fairy only heal one particular person unless ordered otherwise. Do something about Succor. I feel the best solution to this would be if you cast Succor a second time, any remaining shields on the party would be converted into HP along with the heal, however a new shield would not go in place if you consumed the previous one as a heal, and would have to cast again to re-install the shield.

But seriously SE, this character limit is preventing detailed constructive posts. -.-

You can edit your post to get around the limit... and since developers did say that WHM would be the more versatile healer- that is working as intended.

Heh.. As I said, SCH toolkit looks great on paper, but falls short in practice, then it is further plagued by the buggy pet. I leveled SCH first, grabbed my ifrit codex, ran everything up to garuda, then switched to WHM. The difference was like day and night. One thing WHM white knights cling to is the supposed mana limit, however with fixed spell mana cost and a bard's presence (almost guaranteed in any serious 8m), there aint any more issue. Then what SCH s stuck with? Adol isnt making SCH any better than WHM at single target healing, succor simply sucks badly, render WHM helpless in heavy AoE situation.

Instead of repeating the same mantra trying to assure "SCH is fine" while you are having only WHM, why dont you level one yourself to see whether it needs improvement? I believed in SE's promise of each class having it own strength and weakness, that was why I leveled both in the first place to switch on demand. But only when I owned a 50 WHM to try out I realized the pathetic situation SCH was in. Simply put, WHM is your to-go healer, SCH is not even your secondary choice. You need a WHM in a party first before thinking of getting a SCH, but not otherwise. A pair of WHM is ok, SCH+WHM works well, but 2x SCH just cant function. You simply ignore the fact that a pair of WHM works, while SCH does not.

Just try it instead of sitting on your WHM butt repeating the same old tired "SCH is fine". Apart from the codex, they share the same gear, your 2nd job even got +50% xp bonus on everything. Try it, then get back here to say it is fine.

But after all that said, I'm more raged by SE's silence on when the pet is fixed than players' attitude towards a particular class. Given their horrid, utter incompetency regarding server issues (which still persist to an extend even now), I dont believe they are capable of fixing the pet in the foreseeable future. If one thing Blizz is great at, its their very open to their player base.

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Originally Posted by kronpas

But after all that said, I'm more raged by SE's silence on when the pet is fixed than players' attitude towards a particular class. Given their horrid, utter incompetency regarding server issues (which still persist to an extend even now), I dont believe they are capable of fixing the pet in the foreseeable future. If one thing Blizz is great at, its their very open to their player base.

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This is the priority issue. It's also why I leveled whm before SCH. I started on my scholar and will be leveling, but I figured 2 obvious things about the class made it my second choice - by design

1. Splitting healing with a pet. - If a class is balanced, why would I want the power of a healer split between me and a pet that then has to be managed? It's extra oversight to achieve parity.

2. I don't trust pet UIs. Generally, management of pets is a pain point in MMOs. I didn't trust the execution to be flawless, and anything short will dramatically impact healing performance.

It seems like both of these issues has come to bear on the class, and it's why I am saying they need to fix the pet UI, but an informed person made the choice to choose the class that has its power shared with a pet. You can't expect to be at parity when your pet is not fully functional.

If you are looking at your AE heals, you have to add in pet AE heals if they have them along with mitigation skills. If you have single target heals, you have to add in pet single target heals and mitigation skills.

People are selectively comparing apples to oranges, because they don't want to include the role of the pet and mitigation because it is a pain point, but has a huge impact on the comparison calculus. Currently, the SCH can massively outheal the WHM... it's just a PITA to do so.

Micromanagement isnt an issue to me who played a lot of micro heavy strategy games (War3, DotA2 and the likes) over the year. I also play a fair amount of FPS. Seriously, compared to those fast paced games, pet microing in this designed-for-gamepad-in-mind MMO is a joke, first thing I did when I gained the fairies were to manually pull embrace onto my action bars. I was mildly surprised when people complained about the Doom spell that killed the pet outright where all you need was to move it yourself or make it follow you to the platform to remove the debuff. I managed to keep the pet alive while both DPSes failed at killing the bees and kept dying to Doom. That was my first time, and last time in that instance. I dont care if you dont believe me, this is after al the internet where one is free to make up stories.

What makes it stupidly hard is the illogical, unresponsive pet UI/pet control mechanics and AI bugs, not the pet itself. If one can mic Chen and his horde of creeps in DotA, he shouldnt have any issue with pet controlling in any MMO.

You brought up pet AE heal, but seriously, have you EVEN tried it? HAVE YOU? You cant even freaking control that damn creature but embrace as it fires off all CDs the instant the tank loses the tiniest amount of HP. You cant control it during spell casts, which forces me to embrace before casting my own spells. Best thin a SCH can do is to spot heal with pet while pumping adol/phsyik onto the tank (which is incidentally the only thing its good at: heal multiple targets at the same time). Also I'm not saying it has any issue healing single target, look at thread title, woudl you?

I bet you only read up class mechanics and compared class spells, you got absolutely no experience to speak off. I might not setting foot into coil yet, but my experience up to Titan with both classes is sufficient to comment on the matter, unlike you who only know of it on paper.

I think its time I stop replying to you. You dont play the class, you are cluessless about its issue, yet you keep saying "its fine". Btw, HPS doesnt matter. HPS # DPS, sheer output doesnt make a good healing class.

P/s Or I think I should be out of here altogether. What a waste of time trying to argue with you fellow players, SE devs dont even read this board :\

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Originally Posted by Eriane

snip.

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maybe its worded wrong or SE f'd up the faerie but she doesn't give as much speed as labeled(and the pet ai is also broken)... and for the record the effect of regen and medica 2 regen the potency is per tick not overall and that makes a huge difference compared to an unstackable shield... That was something I actually tried myself. Would you rather have a 500 hp shield or multiple regens that can cure for 4 times that easily... that's the issue with sch.. and any good whm worth their salt would know how to manage their mana. all i have to say is... remember van darnus? i never ran out of mp in that fight.. though mp refresh isn't the same as 1.0 you can always wait out a few mins for mana to be restored especially if only the tank needs healing and is above 75% and all mana restore in on CD

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

So, the answer is to homogenize and just give WHM abilities to SCH? Hilarious. (Should they delete WHM class while they are at it?) There would be a trade off.. say good bye to your fairy and sacred soil. Also, expect it to take a chunk of Etherflow stacks. so you can't spam it without limits, since mana isn't an issue.

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SCH is far from OP... SCH can't bring up a group like WHM and its pointless to keep spamming succur... shields don't stack and 150 potency doesn't equal to alot.. either make a seperate spell as succor 2 or allow extra healing when aldo is active (since both shields from both spells are labeled aldo) besides i can't ever see 1 WHM and 1 SCH ever being as efficient as 2 WHMs... SCH is nothing more than a RED MAGEs equivalent in healing atm especially with the horrible AI for faerie.

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Originally Posted by Mistix

And SCHx2 is just not supposed to happen. Period.

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Yet WHMx2 does, and is at least on even terms of effectiveness as SCH+WHM.

You can't omit a WHM from anything challenging, yet you don't need a SCH at all. People progress in coil of bahamut without SCHs. That is imbalance. Having a SCH over a WHM as is does not make or break a fight, while the opposite isn't true. Those people know it, and people like you gloss over that fact as if it's not there.

If I could make a graph of what this looks like, it would show generally poorer results with fewer WHM's and more SCH's. More accurately, a sharp decline in results on the SCH+SCH side, while it more or less plateaus at WHM+SCH/WHMx2. What was the magic variable that caused the change for the better? Combination of presence of WHM's, and less SCH's. What boggles the mind is posters like you avoid stating this half of the truth like it's a taboo (though it obvious you just want to further your own argument doing this. Don't feign your ignorance. If you know what sucks, you should know what works considering you're a healer too, so you're not BS'ing anyone).



I also hate to have to bring this up, but why is it whenever I see a comment like this it's from a lvl50 CNJ? I mean I already know why, but your bias manifests in such a shitty argument full of holes that anyone could refute in 5 minutes that I'd be ashamed to post what you said myself, and so should you. More accurately, what you did is omit the fact that WHMx2 is fine, while saying SCHx2 should never happen, implying this double standard is your ideal of balance. The remainder of your post is also wrong because, like I said earlier, people do titan+coil without SCH's. This is why this post is garbage.

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Originally Posted by fanservice

Yet WHMx2 does, and is at least on even terms of effectiveness as SCH+WHM.

You can't omit a WHM from anything challenging, yet you don't need a SCH at all. People progress in coil of bahamut without SCHs. That is imbalance. Having a SCH over a WHM as is does not make or break a fight, while the opposite isn't true. Those people know it, and people like you gloss over that fact as if it's not there.



I also hate to have to bring this up, but why is it whenever I see a comment like this it's from a lvl50 CNJ? I mean I already know why, but your bias manifests in such a shitty argument full of holes that anyone could refute in 5 minutes that I'd be ashamed to post what you said myself, and so should you.

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it is an imbalace that proves SCH has yet to be ironed out properly

For the record with current gear set up, as WHM i get atleast 170 per tick for medica II, and 260 per tick for regen. Now double that with a second WHM. Per tick minimum would be about 860 per tick. Now SCH shield. Unstackable, 390 therefore a 390 shield. 605 crit therefore a 1210 shield. Tell me how an unstackable shield is better than stackable regens. I'm curious. From what I see even one WHM with both regens on a target gets in far more health than one shield prevents, especially since SCHs don't crit as much as they should. For numbers purposes... 200 succor so 200 aldo shield and 300 crit for 600 shield. The mitigation isn't high enough to warrent use of a SCH over 2 WHMs. Simply put, nurf the ability to stack regens, fix faerie AI so I dont have to stop my casting to cast Embrace, widen the range of Sacred Soil, and I'll call SCH on par with WHM. This will also force WHM and SCH in endgame more than using SCH when you can't find a second WHM.

I do agree that compared to WHM our AoE healing is rather miserable.

However:
1.) In dungeons you've only got to keep up 3 people, excluding yourself.
2.) You'll most likely end up healing with a WHM if you raid.

wich at the end means, Medica II + Succor = Win.
Scholars ain't a pure healing job compared to WHM, we're more like an uttility healing job, we prevent damage.
Also, we get our big bubble wich also prevents 10% damage, our fairy has got an AoE magic reduction.

For the time being I don't think any of our skills really need an update or "fix".
If anything needs attention from SE it's the Pet AI and how we can get the best out of our Fairy - right now it's complete dips*it.

Edit: I would like to add that it would be very nice though if we could stack our shields. It would be a better "upgrade"/"fix" than having the healing increased.

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Originally Posted by Valiant

For the record with current gear set up, as WHM i get atleast 170 per tick for medica II, and 260 per tick for regen. Now double that with a second WHM. Per tick minimum would be about 860 per tick..

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That's great for a tank- unless you are actually suggesting whms are rolling regen on the entire raid group... in which case time and mana would be issues- especially for spike damage..taking the time in the middle of a fight to try to recast regen on the entire raid... with two whms... well.. you are better off GCD wise just spamming medica...

Is that what you are implying? That WHMs are rolling regens on the entire raid through entire fights? I just want to make sure I understand the "math" correctly. Because you are not including the hps/second when you are including a rather large amount of setup/cast time on 8 regens. Have a scholar casting succor during that whole time... THEN do the "math".

Or is this just "on paper" talk?

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

That's great for a tank- unless you are actually suggesting whms are rolling regen on the entire raid group... in which case time and mana would be issues- especially for spike damage..taking the time in the middle of a fight to try to recast regen on the entire raid... with two whms... well.. you are better off GCD wise just spamming medica...

Is that what you are implying? That WHMs are rolling regens on the entire raid through entire fights? I just want to make sure I understand the "math" correctly.

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Being that most fights are aoe heavy and if you have idiot dd, then yes it is more viable with 2 whms for better survivability than whm + sch. Solely do to the health restored from regens assuming both medica 2 is popped off plus atleast one regen, and 2 regens after a heavy hit since regen alone heals for more than 1 cure1.

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Originally Posted by Valiant

Being that most fights are aoe heavy and if you have idiot dd, then yes it is more viable with 2 whms for better survivability than whm + sch.

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Okay, so the assumption is that you heal with a medica... and then go around regenning multiple dps... because? Why? You assume the regens will just tick instead of be sniped? So, after massive damage, it makes sense to use single target regens on multiple targets instead of a couple quick group heals? Seems to me like a waste of GCDs...past 2 or 3 people, you have left others at low health for a while... so it sounds like you might need to pre-hot before the damage spike... and that requires rolling regen.

What fights do you just spend your time spamming regen on all your raid mates and then (if it hasn't expired by target number 8) casting medica 2? I would like to know?

Please prove this "math" with a use case. I keep hearing "Regen" tossed around with "group heals"... please explain when and where you use regen (not the medica 2 regen) as a group heal.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

Okay,

Please prove this "math" with a use case.

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with 2 whms.. why not... did it that way in 1.0 with van darnus... regen kept people alive quite well due to tick potency.. 2.0 is no different medica 2 plus regen even from 1 whm is better than 1 aldo shield. and i already gave you the math from my sch and whm... my own medica2 + regen heals for more than aldo prevents. til that is nerfed or sch shields can stack 2 whms will always be more viable then whm sch

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Originally Posted by Valiant

with 2 whms.. why not... did it that way in 1.0 with van darnus... regen kept people alive quite well due to tick potency.. 2.0 is no different medica 2 plus regen even from 1 whm is better than 1 aldo shield. and i already gave you the math from my sch and whm... my own medica2 + regen heals for more than aldo prevents. til that is nerfed or sch shields can stack 2 whms will always be more viable then whm sch

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Why not? That's not an answer- I told you mana and GCDs. Maybe medica 2 + regen is great for healing on the tank during AE... of course you ignore lustrate. Now, tell me where you apply Medica 2 + regen to the entire group. You were talking about group heals.

Where? Tell me the fight you spam regen and medica 2 on the whole raid.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

Why not? That's not an answer- I told you mana and GCDs. Maybe medica 2 + regen is great for healing on the tank during AE... of course you ignore lustrate. Now, tell me where you apply Medica 2 + regen to the entire group. You were talking about group heals.

Where? Tell me the fight you spam regen and medica 2 on the whole raid.

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lustrate requiers Aetherflow... now if you are gonna add that ill add benediction.. longer cd but heals 1 target to full.. better than 60% every min

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Originally Posted by Valiant

lustrate requiers Aetherflow... now if you are gonna add that ill add benediction.. longer cd but heals 1 target to full.. better than 60% every min

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Debateable... but irrelevant. You were talking group heals. Then you gave single target healing figures and are trying to portray that as a group heal figure.

I said your "math" is BS unless you can give me an example of a fight, where you sit spamming regen on the entire raid and medica 2. Otherwise, you don't achieve those numbers. I'm tired of people mis-representing whm healing and using that to scream that SCH are "suffering" ... or the whopper liars that just go straight to claims that WHM x 2 is "better" than WHM+SCH... because they say so.

Some SCH want the legitimate issues fixed like pet UI... and some are just coming in here being deceptive to scream for buffs because they want to be OP.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

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i will say it was done on Ultima we survived well enough.. some dd died due to idiocy in second phase.. (that dance is too simple) type 2 Ultima it wasnt needed since most aoe was easily avoidable. besides the cd caused by regen is the same as cure and if PoM is used right its easy to pop on alot of people real quick. Once again 1 regen heals more health than one cure.. you're a 50 CNJ go out and try it yourself and count each tick... regen heals more than cure 1 therefore a very useful spell to keep up health.. same goes for medica 2 than medica 1. pop medica 2's regen effect compared to medica 1 far more health will be restored.. the potency is per tick. If it wasn't per tick WHMs wouldn't be more useful than SCH.. and in 1.0 same method was used on van darnus.. 2.0 isnt much different than 1.0

Get back on topic. My point is that Succor is a terrible spell. I know the WHM advocates of course want to see their hierarchy maintained because it benefits them to be NEEDED as opposed to optional (a luxury none of the DPS outside bards have).

It's just incredibly weak, and if you're going to make a bad AoE spell, just scrap it and give us more tools for what we are meant to be good at instead.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

Blah.

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Before you continue to spout your nonsense, take 2 Scholars though Titan HM, then take 2 White Mages and tell me how perfectly fine Scholar is.

Yeah, Succor can -totally- save a group from stomps when he's near death.

Id honestly take the WHMs aoe heal due to shear power it has over Succor any day and Im a Scholar. Succor needs some love big time. The weak heal + weak shield just doesnt do squat when mobs blow through the shield like its nothing which it quite literally is.

WHM: "SCH is fine!". Its quite funny to see some SCHs in this thread also have 50WHM, while the most persistent WHM here is almost clueless about the class =\

SE never said they wanted whm/whm or sch/sch in raids. They want both. I think the issue isn't that whm/whm is better i think sch/sch is poorly designed.

Problem is things like dungeon finder exist where its possible two scholars may come together and you can't change classes in raid. Not that i think df is the way to go if you want to clear content anyway but it exists.

I do think sch aoe could use a fix in the sense that after shielding it just overwrites, whether its one or two so that scholars don't synergize well. No class should end up stepping on the toes of another by game design.

I still think it wouldn't be game breaking for the same heal to do a % more direct healing if the shield buff is already on. Its not really a buff in potency but in effective healing.

That being said, if sch are given aoe healing on par with whm etc. I would expect to see their mana efficiency and threat management take a hit.

If succor was buffed to be a group spell as powerful as medica2 plus rolled regen all in one cast- or if SCH group heal was just powerful as whm- why would you ever take a whm for anything?

Optimal would shift from SCH + WHM to SCH x2 and the game would have a very clear alpha healer. SCH would do everything a whm does... plus shields, mitigation, mana, and healing on the move with pet.

It seems to me the only way to address stacking without making SCH OP is to make WHM medica regens overwrite each other... with the more powerful one overwriting the weaker one. That would preserve the ideal SCH + WHM, while making stacking WHMs less attractive.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

If succor was buffed to be a group spell as powerful as medica2 plus rolled regen all in one cast- or if SCH group heal was just powerful as whm- why would you ever take a whm for anything?

Optimal would shift from SCH + WHM to SCH x2 and the game would have a very clear alpha healer. SCH would do everything a whm does... plus shields, mitigation, mana, and healing on the move with pet.

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I'm not saying sch needs a medica 2 or a medica 2 equivalent. I think most would just like their aoe succor to actually be as effective as medica 1. Correct me if i'm wrong but the issue is once the shield is up they are trying to refill health with half the potency of a medica no?

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Originally Posted by Eriane

I'm not saying sch needs a medica 2 or a medica 2 equivalent. I think most would just like their aoe succor to actually be as effective as medica 1. Correct me if i'm wrong but the issue is once the shield is up they are trying to refill health with half the potency of a medica no?

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Does the pet have any AE healing abilities? (Isn't whispering dawn an AE regen potency 100?)

Also, the reason they are healing half, is because half is a shield.. so if they have healing added, it would be stronger than medica. With pre-shielding, some of the damage should have been absorbed already, so there is not as much damage to heal. Theoretically.

If you make the heal increase if a shield is present to be equal to medica, then you basically get medica + a shield. You have an adaptive heal that is superior to medica.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

Does the pet have any AE healing abilities?

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I sincerely apologize as i am a ignorant white mage. i have no clue but i think so.... problem is... Fairy is hard to control so i think many are not even factoring it in.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

Does the pet have any AE healing abilities?

Also, the reason they are healing half, is because half is a shield.. so if they have healing added, it would be stronger than medica. With pre-shielding, some of the damage should have been absorbed already, so there is not as much damage to heal. Theoretically.

If you make the heal increase if a shield is present to be equal to medica, then you basically get medica + a shield. You have an adaptive heal that is superior to medica.

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Agreed.... but we would still have medica 2 and regen. Scholar would have a one time shield and medica.

A shield is still a shield, it will go away after its duration expires, then we are left with a unhealed party member. A WHM do the same thing with medica 2 will result in a fully healed one. Our only choice is to keep spamming Succor which costs us massive amount of mana and TIME and trying to overwrite that useless shield over and over without actual benefit (since the damage is done already).

Also, may I remind you again there aint much benefit in pre-shielding in this current tier of gear. At 150 potency a pop the shield is like 200+ HP, compared to around 3.1 HP requirement for Titan HM to last through his stomps. Not even 10%HP. And it requires a regular cast time to boost. If SCH is THAT powerful in preventive department, there shouldnt be a HP req. in the first place, no? Shielding works.... but only on paper.

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Does the pet have any AE healing abilities?

Also, the reason they are healing half, is because half is a shield.. so if they have healing added, it would be stronger than medica. With pre-shielding, some of the damage should have been absorbed already, so there is not as much damage to heal. Theoretically.

If you make the heal increase if a shield is present to be equal to medica, then you basically get medica + a shield. You have an adaptive heal that is superior to medica.

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At its current state, it DOES not. Thats why I was repeatedly telling you to actually try a SCH to see if it works. The only AoE HoT (not even direct AoE!) it has got relatively long CD, then it spams it away the moment the tank got the tiniest of scratch. Setting it to passive doesnt help, as you need to spam embrace and as soon as you use it the fairy is back to auto mode to fire off al CDs again.

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I sincerely apologize as i am a ignorant white mage. i have no clue but i think so.... problem is... Fairy is hard to control so i think many are not even factoring it in.

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You cant control them during casting (so the supposedly flexibility is non existant). You can force yourself to a different play style to accommodate for the clunky mechanics, you still cant do shyt about its idiotic AI as I described above.

The issue I'm seeing is lack of WHM weaknesses.

WHM heals are supposed to be big and powerful but come at a cost of MP and enmity.
If 2x WHMs can spam medica without quickly draining their resources or pulling heavy aggro from tank, then why would you ever need to take a SCH to a endgame raid?

That's where I'm seeing the imbalance. WHM doesn't have enough shortcomings for a SCH to complement.

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Gang

The issue I'm seeing is lack of WHM weaknesses.

WHM heals are supposed to be big and powerful but come at a cost of MP and enmity.
If 2x WHMs can spam medica without quickly draining their resources or pulling heavy aggro from tank, then why would you ever need to take a SCH to a endgame raid?

That's where I'm seeing the imbalance. WHM doesn't have enough shortcomings for a SCH to complement.

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I don't think two whms are spamming medica over long periods... there is a mana constraint there, although they can for burst healing- which I think is the intention. They will oom quickly if they keep doing it.

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Originally Posted by Eriane

Agreed.... but we would still have medica 2 and regen. Scholar would have a one time shield and medica.

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They would have a shield and medica... and pet heal. I understand if people are ignoring it, but the pet is an important part of the class and if they aren't working (which I think they are not working very well)... then with part of the class broken, you can't really judge the ability of the class.

^^^To the above post, I certainly think that an unused shield could convert to healing on expiration for any unused amount without a problem. If the problem is that shields are popping from absorbing, then they are working... but if they are just expiring, then they should heal for the unused shield amount, imo.

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Gang

The issue I'm seeing is lack of WHM weaknesses.

WHM heals are supposed to be big and powerful but come at a cost of MP and enmity.
If 2x WHMs can spam medica without quickly draining their resources or pulling heavy aggro from tank, then why would you ever need to take a SCH to a endgame raid?

That's where I'm seeing the imbalance. WHM doesn't have enough shortcomings for a SCH to complement.

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I'm not sure where you are getting your information from... but WHM/WHM is doable, arguably better than SCh/SCH not the best option. It requires having a bard to compensate for the mana issues, and i will tell you i can pull threat very easily if i'm not careful. Overhealing is a big time threat generator. And things like regen can certainly cause overhealing.

So basically... they can't just spam.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

^^^To the above post, I certainly think that an unused shield could convert to healing on expiration for any unused amount without a problem. If the problem is that shields are popping from absorbing, then they are working... but if they are just expiring, then they should heal for the unused shield amount, imo.

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That is an interesting idea. But i think the duration is too long to fill up a raid before the next "big hit". perhaps having a manual way to convert shields to healing would also work. Like when druids could make hots a burst heal. just with shields.