[Pole] Do you want to see the summoner class reworked?

i will vote No
and i hope all the one that have voted Yes will read this, because it's need to clarify stuff.


1) do the summoner (the jobs) is a pet class? yes! people misunderstood 2 thing, the first one the skill from the arcanist and the skill from the summoner. you do have 5 skills (7 if you count garuda-egi and titan-egi) 3 of this 5 skill are pure pet oriented!

2) why do the summoner have dot? one more time it's because it come from the arcanist, but more important for allows you to survive if your pet are busy or dead! other point you can't compare a solo game to a mmorpg. you need balance in a mmorpg, if they had put direct damage spell to the summoner they will have been a black mage with pet. other point, the DoT give you a lot of freedom.

3) why the summoner can't be like the one from FF11? one more time for a simple reason of balance, the summoner of FF11 was horrible, the gameplay can work (barely actually) in an old game like FF11 but in a game like FF14 it's not possible.

all of this for say, people stop to compare what can't be compared and try to understand more your class, my two concern about the summoner so far are the cd of enkindle and the look of the egi that look a bit too much crystal.

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Originally Posted by glim

out of the MMO rpgs I've played, this game (the summoner class to be exact) has probably the strongest pets I've seen (in a raiding scenario), the pet does about 30% of your damage, even in WoW a warlock's pet would be lucky to reach 10% of the warlock's damage, and I hear ffxi pets are terrible but only looks huge.

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Yeah but thats the problem, we got a Generic MMO pet class, a warlock/Necromancer instead of a Final Fantasy Summoner.

The FFXI Summoner was good, it just wasnt that good of a DD in parties. The mistake the XI team made was making the Avatars all similar in the sense of soloing, instead of making some Tanks, some DD, some buffer etc.

In Final Fantasy Summoners always performed through the summon to inflict the damage. In XIV we do all the damage, and the egi are a DOT with an HP bar.

I mean its called "Summoner" for a reason lol , Not Arcane Mage.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtuNaJdeaiE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRoX7Vq_ZAQ <--- FFXI SMN SOLO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE85y-fMRR0 <----FFX Ifrit

Yes

Filler.

I like the idea of DoT rather than burst damage. I like that about playing ACN. It's about maintenance rather than timing booms right with the tank's enmity. As to whether it fits the lore of Summoner, I won't argue that. The play style of the class is fine though.

I vote yes. Summoner needs to have more abilities like enkindle that make them more interactive with the pet. Also I don't need a huge avatar like in FF11 but at least make the egi's look cool. They are a fraction of the primal's power. Fine, but don't make them look so stupid.

Absolutely yes, the current summoner is an insult to the "class"

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Originally Posted by Engineer

The FFXI Summoner was good, it just wasnt that good of a DD in parties. The mistake the XI team made was making the Avatars all similar in the sense of soloing, instead of making some Tanks, some DD, some buffer etc.

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Voting no, simply because I want to avoid the catastrophe that was FFXI's summoner. Having all our damage dealt through our pet doesn't work. SE had 10+ years to make it work. TEN YEARS and it still sucks. In fact it's worse because now they're used for one ability and they sit on the sidelines.

The only avatars worth using were Garuda and Shiva, simply because they both do the highest damage in physical and magical, respectively. They made no attempt to alter them to make them more unique to each other. Or rather they did and never bothered to go back to make it better.

FFXI summoner is more of an insult to the class than XIV, because here it's actually good. Damn good even.

no.
I think the class as a whole is fine as it is.
but it could 100% get a few tweaks along with some more commands for the pets besides the "just do more damage" spells.also the u.i needs a major re-work cause the whole cant command my pet while casting as a caster class is just plain dumb.

but like I said,with a little more elbow grease and hammering out the edges I think the smn in its current form is awesome and amazingly fun too play.

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Originally Posted by Vashous

YES

When I saw SE was making a SMN job I was so thrilled because through all of the FFs I have always loved the job of the Summoner the most. The problem with FFXIV's summoner is we are nothing more than a lame pet class. The worst part of this is the focus of the summoner is DD through optimization of our DoTs and offers very little interaction with the actual pet itself.

I was really hoping that FFXIV was going to be inventive with this opportunity and not just conform to every other MMO's standard pet class. Unfortunately I was proven wrong.

Personally, I would love to see these summons re-envisioned more as short term companions whose initial summoning does decent burst dmg or has an effect, stays for a short duration, and is dismissed either in death or a timer. They should be our main damage source, not a bunch of DoTs with a pet basically acting as another DoT.

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Hm... but your dream does not work in a movement intense endgame.

If you want to cast powerfull Summons for huge burst damage - you need long cast times, meaning no mobility.

And if you can use Swiftcast with Summons (what you can do currently) you get a huge ballancing problem, because then Summons would be infinitely too powerfull.

I get where you come from... but I dont see your dream work in this game. But you are not allone, my dream of a Main-Support-Class (maybe RDM) doesnt work in a 4-man-group game either... ;-)


/edit: Forgot to vote... a NO from me.

Yes

This class is not a Summoner. It is a Pokemon trainer.

No. Summoners are great I think. Bane just needs to be fixed. The range should be larger

Yes - Ideas listed here. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...59#post1425259

Votes updated again.

Just want to say that I think this job's gameplay is rather entertaining and quite efficient. Neither of those though, are reasons we are voting Yes. The reason we vote yes is because the gameplay is not a SMNR.

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Originally Posted by glim

out of the MMO rpgs I've played, this game (the summoner class to be exact) has probably the strongest pets I've seen (in a raiding scenario), the pet does about 30% of your damage...

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first off... our SMN still doesn't do even 30% of our total damage. Aside from the decrease in damage output, our gameplay is not effected at all by our summon being out. There is nothing we would do differently (aside from cast contagion once every few mobs or minute) if we didn't have a summon. We would still have practically the EXACT SAME ROTATION. Does this not seem a bit sad for a class that is named after it's summon?!? This is the core defect in this job that needs to be reworked.

No.

I really like Summoner the way it is.

No. /char 10

POLL
Can topic title not be edited?

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No. I like the class the way it is. The Egis just need to be bigger. :3

No by a landslide.

You don't like it? Don't play it. Don't try to ruin others' fun just because you're not happy.

Yes please :)

YES

Would rather it was more pet focuses, less damage over time and more flat damage. I love pet classes but don't enjoy ignoring my pet to watch dots.

NO

Because I already satisfied by how they already framed as a caster :)

nice DoT that doesn't OP but still reliable if needed to kill fast. Fester and other skills can make him busy other than doing watching DoTs count down.

My main job is bard, my partner in crime is a summoner, so I understand him well.

Not really. SMN's fun to me so I have no qualms with it. I imagine though that if SE animated our spells differently, like say, Ramuh phasing in (during cast time) and physically striking the enemy when we cast the Thunder spell or Catoblepas when we cast Bio II, people would say a different tune. The mechanic of the job will still be a DoT machine but having a summon apply the spell would fit "the look" of SMN and silence some naysayers.

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Originally Posted by Vashous

Current Tally:
Yes- 40
No- 20

Before your first reply this thread at the top of it I would really like you to simply type on its own line:

"Yes" if you are not happy with the current gameplay of the Summoner class and would like to see it reworked. or...

"No" if you think that the summoner class is a good representation of it's title and would not like it's core gameplay style changed.


*PLEASE VOTE BEFORE YOU READ EVERYONE ELSES POSTS

Just updated. More votes are starting to get a more definitive result.
see below for rules.

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tl;dr

SE isnt going to change the game for one persons thread and vote lol

I was so excited for summoner and must say its a huge Disappointment speaking as a ffxi Vet, summoner is horrible what is that thing next to me . Yes if you are new to FF games then yes its good DPS it great n scholar switch over etc etc But if you are a summoner from FFXI then you are extremely disappointed no interaction NO Tp skill/spells , wheres the party benefits like carbys ruby or shiva's ice spikes, but then again I feel like this game is letting me down at every corner (not bashing I love the game ) but kinda Disappointed in a lot , Fate grinds say no more ... But so yea PLEASE RECREATE SMN and most classes really , plus I want 100 hr quests for AF n Relic gear :cool:

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Originally Posted by Ceelo_Mage

tl;dr

SE isnt going to change the game for one persons thread and vote lol

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NO your right We should just say nothing about how disappointing it is , and just troll other peoples threads ,, Works for u right

yes please!

Yes. Although I like the sustaining DPS over time, the egis need a new look. Perhaps making them more menacing or a little bigger. Not bigger to the point to where it takes up the entire screen or insane DPS but a little bigger and more menacing. It is very understandable that if smn had spells with flat dmg then it would just be a blm with a pet. Although, I am good at playing smn, I hardly ever use any healing magicka on the pet except the spell sustain. I see the pet as only another DPS over time with a HP bar. Then there are issues with not being able to cast spells while commanding my pet which is really frustrating and annoying. Although we are mobile mages, as one could say, our lack of burst utility is poor. The radius spread for bane needs a definite increase so as to be able to spread to more targets or over a wider radius. The enkindle spell is very underwhelming which I hardly use unless its a major boss that has a difficult DPS checkpoint. The potency on that should be buffed, the graphic animation of it should be made better, and the cooldown of it should be lowered. 5-min cooldown is too much and ridiculous. There should be more interation between the pet and the smn. I only ever interact with my pet when I tell it to use a certain attack or move out the way of a deadly aoe or from something that I know can kill it. Our spells should change based on which pet we have on the field to make all of them more viable and usable. It's pretty damn sad when I see that I have an ifrit egi with 4685 hp and titan egi with 10k hp who I hardly ever use. Only use titan for solo tanking which is dumb because he still can't keep the enemies off of me and ifrit egi is only good in certain fights that won't kill him off so easily. Then again, it is very laughable to go into dungeons and see that my pet has more hp than some of my party members. So yes please help the smn job.

no
I don't normally contribute to these discussions but I'd like to offer a few points;
#1: They've stated before they have no intention of changing Egi design. Can we please stop asking for this? It's not going to happen.
#2: It's highly unlikely they'd completely rework a class so long after it's release. Changing spell animations, Egi sizes and having to completely rebalance a class costs SE time and money that they most likely will not want to waste.
#3: Changes to the way Summoner works means changing Scholar because unless they're changing job-specific abilities of which Summoner has 4: Summon III, Fester, Tri-Disaster and Enkindle (and changes solely focused on these four abilities aren't going to change the way the class plays). They won't do anything to change Summoner and Scholar together because reason #2.

Personally, I like the way Summoner works as a class. Do I think Egi are ugly? Of course! However I don't expect them to ever chance aesthetically and I think asking for any class to be completely reworked is asking for too much

NO.

SMN is an awesome class, my favourite and main currently.
The only thing which could use some improvement is the visual aspect of Summons, so they could look bit more powerful than as somebody in one thread said "popcorn" :)
Mechanics are fine, the class play is entertaining and the most enjoyable summoner design I have ever played in any MMO.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trystan

Hm... but your dream does not work in a movement intense endgame.

If you want to cast powerfull Summons for huge burst damage - you need long cast times, meaning no mobility.

And if you can use Swiftcast with Summons (what you can do currently) you get a huge ballancing problem, because then Summons would be infinitely too powerfull.

I get where you come from... but I dont see your dream work in this game. But you are not allone, my dream of a Main-Support-Class (maybe RDM) doesnt work in a 4-man-group game either... ;-)


/edit: Forgot to vote... a NO from me.

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Cast time for summon is 6 sec which is insanely long for the pets we summon

Yes the Summoner does need a little re work to the job.
-They need to change the look of the Egis and make them look like miniature primals and 9 ft tall.
-Give the Egis abilities that correspond to their HM Primals.
-Give the Summoner Time Mage abilities ie dark, gravity and Comet.

No, entire class does not need reworked IMO.

I would like to see more egis. I like them :3 But we've already been told that's for level cap raises sooo bleh.
(Not that I wouldn't say no to mini-primals but... they've made it clear several times they're not going to do that. Dead horse etc.)

I haven't played SMN myself so I won't vote, but I've played with a lot of SMNs so I feel like I have an idea of what's at play here. Personally I like that the class is different from say, BLM, or any other DPS, but I don't feel like it's very true to what most people think of as a SMN. I'm not sure what they could do with this because I don't want to see the class removed (from a mechanics point of view), but I would prefer SMN be something else.

It would seem odd to rename the class something else and then reintroduce SMN as a different job, but perhaps they could have an advanced class/ job in the future (Evoker or something) that plays more into people's expectations. I think I would like something a little more FFXI, but not too much. Perhaps put a reasonable cooldown on the actual summoning abilites (like 30-60 seconds) so you can't just swap summons back to back, and give the summons more potent and varied abilities (rather than the current X damage or X damage over Y time). Still have them actually engaged in combat (a departure in practice from XI), but give reason to use all or most of the different egis and their abilites, rather than giving them all only generic damaging actions so that there's no reason to swap.

As someone that doesn't main summoner, I personally think the class should be (by name) more pet heavy, rather than DOT heavy. But as the class is currently balanced, it fits very well into the balance; awesome utility, very good dps.

That said, I don't main the class and the people that do should be the ones talking about it.

Btw, Poles are nice

No.

Tiny little changes here and there might be welcome, but a "rework" would be overkill.

yes, to the way it was before. Thanks to ppl saying "change this and change that" they realized that the Arcanists were too strong for their own good so they made the class weaker, now i just feel weak as hell cuz if i dont summon i cant make the damage score as a single person doing a different class, this goes for Healing too. Now because of the complains they were going to do/did (idk) some changes to the THM/BLM class cuz ppl were complaining about how a BLM is the weakest class. And finally the dragoon class is now complaining saying that they dont have enough magic def.. do you see the pattern here? well, i know they did, they said that their not gonna make the dragoon class completelly tough against magic but they will do something about it which im sure they're not cuz BLM was their last touch to the classes unless a HUGE problem is found in a class, thats what i think, just saying, like they said, some classes will be stronger than others in certain dungeons and thats fine

Do you people have any idea how old this thread is?

Yes, but not huge changes. I'd like to see new summoner only skills that scholar doesn't have. I play both, and they're so similar, there only seems to be a few skills that differentiate the two.

I'd like Enkindle to have a shorter cooldown, since it's not that powerful to begin with.

I defintely want more Egi's, Leviathan and Ramuh for sure, and eventually Shiva.

And I would like at least Garuda re-done so she actually looks somewhat like Garuda.

Yes

I'd love to see a rework of the SMN. Although i love to play one (have 2 to 50 actually), it kinda feels like im playin an Affliction Warlock from WoW and not a Summoner who controls (or tries to control) all powerful entities.
I wish the Summoner in FFXIV would tend more to the gameplay like the Summoner (or what its called) in Aion. Your spells there are the actual pet special attacks and you get a little stuff to cast for yourself.

And as i recall. This thread is not about the damage we deal or if we want to be top in dps. Its about if you think this class feels and plays like a summoner.
In my opinion it doesnt.
And our only direct pet-command-skill "Enkindle" is on a freakin 5 minute cooldown. The buffs are no direct command.

And just for my selfish little ego. I want Flare on a 5 minute cooldown too and no changes to its damage :) (For all who dont get it. This is just teasing a little)

Nobody cares that this seven month old thread was necrobumped? Really?

Yes. Summoner should be able to take over the PoV of the pet they summoned. And the summoner should be able to stay out of the battle field while their pet (and while the player's PoV is on the pet) to fight for the summoner.

I know it's old but this topic is worth to discuss. Summoner in this game doesn't play like a summoner at all. Moving around casting DoT... Summoner shouldn't need to go to the frontline. Instead, their pet should do all the dirty things for them.