SCH: Get stoneskin. Yeah, fine, it's not as good as when used by a WHM, and maybe you can justify your way out of it. The simple point is that you are a better SCH if you go get it, and you actually are making your group weaker because you don't want to get it. Maybe that's okay for your group, but don't try to deny the simple facts. Also for WHM, SMN, or SCH you should have Swiftcast from THM. It's just way to good to not have.
BLM: Get Raging Strikes and Quelling Strikes from Archer. The first is very low level and just straight up lets you do more damage. The second lets you avoid a bunch of the threat you will generate with that damage. Both are good skills to have.
I miss the days in FFXI where people without properly leveled subjobs (similar to people who won't go get good skills from other classes in XIV...) were just left out because they didn't care enough to try to play to their maximum potential.
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09-12-2013, 11:06 AMSovereign
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09-12-2013, 11:07 AMSilvyr
If you don't have culinarian you're bringing your party down by the lack of delicious sammitches. If you don't have fishing You're bringing your party down by not appeasing your catgirl whitemage with fresh fish for delicious nutrients, happiness, and mana regeneration.
Play the game don't shove it down people's throats. 2 weeks in and everyones already at each others throats rofl its hilarious. -
09-12-2013, 11:15 AMKalleraQuote:
Originally Posted by Sovereign
"Unless we each conform, unless we obey orders, unless we follow our leaders blindly, there is no possible way we can remain free. "
-Maj. Frank Burns, M*A*S*H -
09-12-2013, 11:21 AMDivineOracleThat has already started, as i seeing shouts asking for people with full exp of these fights, which needs 3-5 runs to learn. In fact some people will outright not accept anyone who has not done it before. leaving people to only learn from watching. But experience is the best teacher.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallera
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09-12-2013, 11:37 AMLeonas
DRG: Internal RElease, Mantra, Fracture, Second Wind, Blood Bath
Mantra is pug 42. Get to crackin' DRG
*** I"ve been depressed ever since phase 3- 4 when they switched DRG"s 3rd subclass from archer to mrd. But I guess DRG with Rising Fury ( 20% more damage for 20 sec. ) and Straight shot ( 10% crit for 20 sec. ) woulda been wayyyyyyyyyyyy too op. -
09-12-2013, 11:41 AMSovereignWell, I think some people just want to play with other people who are interested in squeezing as much performance as they can out of their character. I don't really think that's a bad thing. If you want to play with a more casual group that may not be as concerned with player performance, then you could probably find or create a group, Linkshell, or Free Company to do exactly that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallera
What is so wrong with some players wanting to be their best and looking for other players who feel the same way? I guess I just don't see the problem (granted some players are outright rude about it, but that is a different point all together, in my opinion). -
09-12-2013, 11:52 AMdragoriani agree i also do this but tanks can help pt stay alive longer with hp buffing at the right time and while healing them selves on my war i am useing af 1 + jewerly and with my hp skill and hp buff i saw my self getting over 6k hp mind you a2ll i did was maxed out my vit and i know with af +1 and hq jewerly i might see 6k-8k hpQuote:
Originally Posted by Shori
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09-12-2013, 11:53 AMKalleraPeople that bail and kick on the first wipe are not concerned about "Performance", the party they are looking for is merely a tool to their own ends.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sovereign
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09-12-2013, 12:04 PMSovereignOh, sure. I wasn't so much thinking about them as much as I was thinking about the people in Mor Dhona, shouting for a Garuda or Titan party and asking that everyone have better than AF gear and know the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallera
No question that people who leave after a single wipe in the DF are annoying. On the other side of the spectrum, I don't mind explaining a fight to someone who hasn't done it before and I don't even mind wiping once or twice so they can see the mechanics, but I get frustrated if the same mistakes are made after 3 or 4 wipes. =/ At that point, I don't think it's 'playing for fun' or just 'trying to enjoy the game' as much as it is just making mistakes over and over again. -
09-12-2013, 12:04 PMEstellios
Swiftcast is just so good, you should want to get it. Being able to cast even one spell while moving, especially a Raise, is amazing in a lot of late game fights.
I feel this is different from FF11's situation because you can level an alternate class solo in a reasonable amount of time through various means. In FF11 you had to put up with jobs that were garbage until they hit certain level (THF) or jobs that could not solo and thus you could not level at your own pace (all of them except beastmaster). This is not some crazy endeavor that requires you to play 24/7, you can do this on the side and if you are someone that can't play often you get the wonderful bonus of being able to take advantage of rested bonus. Not to mention you get +50% XP on top of that for leveling something that isn't your highest class. -
09-12-2013, 12:11 PMmadolynthats all well and good but have you considered that you, as a scholar, you are a mitigation healer? it just makes sense that you should have stoneskin. You have white mages in your party whos primary focus is to heal heal heal. You should be using stoneskin liberally to alleviate some of the pressure and assist with heals as necessary. You should also want to get swiftcast for resurrection...not just summoner.Quote:
I hear alot of people complaining when I'm playing scholar that I'm not using stoneskin. It's a level 34 conj ability, and we always have a white mage in raid so honestly it's pointless from a raiding perspective. That being said I do want to level swiftcast from THM for my summoner
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09-12-2013, 12:11 PMEldaena
Why wouldn't someone want to max out their favorite role? So what if you need to level up a few others? You want to pimp out any job, you need to work on other classes too. =/ Obviously, they already encourage this mentality by requiring you to level up others just to unlock your job.
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09-12-2013, 12:13 PMEstelliosNot to mention having Stoneskin on as many people as possible, no matter if its the boosted on or not, is extremely useful no matter what and two people with Stoneskin means a lot more people in the party can have an extra buffer of damage, since there is no way in hell a WHM has the time or MP to keep Stoneskin up on everyone constantly.Quote:
Originally Posted by madolyn
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09-12-2013, 12:18 PMrazorpakk
People want better gear to show off, it doesn't matter if they lack cross class skills that would be a tangible improvement over any gear.
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09-12-2013, 12:32 PMCrystallus
End Game
Being the key word here.
Yes we all have to start somewhere and at certain times we will by default be under geared.
However when it comes to things you can control. If you are joining in End Game content, then yes you absolutely should have all the available abilities and spells.
1. It is End Game you are joining you need to show you have put forth effort to join.
2. In the process of leveling some jobs to get that one spell you have a better understanding of the role it plays.
End Game is not for everyone there is an expectation that whether I agree or not EG FC do have the rite to discriminate. -
09-12-2013, 04:06 PMJynxii
@Madolyn and Estellios, I'm glad I'm not the only one that saw the potential use for Stone Skin on a SCH instead of having the 'our heals mitigates anyway! we shouldn't need stoneskin' view.
And as has been highlighted a lot throughout the thread, it comes down to what each individual is looking at doing. If they wan't to find themselves in Bahamut's Coil, and only level their primary class, that is their prerogative, but the goal and what is being done to get their doesn't line up at all. Also, if you want to have people that have every cross skill, you go out and look for them, but don't be a hypocrite and claim you're one of these 'hardcore min/max'ers' when you haven't even got your most vital cross class ability (ie Blood for Blood on MNK). People will find out and tell you to stick it, because you don't fit into the 'elitist or min/max'ed' group/behaviour you are trying to perpetuate.
Funnily enough, this would be the time where they come onto the forums to complain about being removed/not invited to a group because they haven't leveled their LNC to 34 for a skill that gives a big increase to damage. -
09-12-2013, 04:25 PMBlackcat75
I'm torn on this one, granted anyone requiring anything of me better be my wife or go F yourself.
That being said I have a 50 WAR and a 15 GLD.
Do I want Provoke from 22 GLD, Yes.
Do I want it bad enough to level yet another tank, Not Sure.
Do I need it to hold agro or pick up agro, Not Really.
But on the flip side I was doing an Vale run with a SCH healer who did not have swiftcast. She tried her best. But the dot kept killing her pet and we kept wiping. She just couldn't heal enough without her pet out. We eventually gave up after wipe number 5 and told her she really should level up THM to get swiftcast.
Is it truly needed, I don't know honestly. All the observation I have had in vale is SCH without it generally fail, I have never seen one succeed. But I haven't run it enough times to know if it is truly doable or not without it. -
09-12-2013, 04:27 PMteadax
This thread makes me happy to be old. May death come for me before some of these entitled, spoiled, obnoxious ankle grabbers breed .......
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09-12-2013, 04:32 PMVamptI'm not 100% on this but i thought only whm could do battle rez. I lvd thm for swiftcast first anyways tho for if pet died. However im not excited about lvling conj for stoneskin, but i guess i will after i hit 50Quote:
Originally Posted by madolyn
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09-12-2013, 04:35 PMJynxiiThis was pure hell, and one I need to go back too soon unfortunately. I managed to get through the boss without my fairy, but it was literally healing non-stop and getting off Aetherflow+Energy Drain whenever it was off cool down. I have noticed that in other dungeons AoE effects on pet are significantly reduced (ie Imminent Chaos hitting for ~300 on fairy, ~3,000 on players), so I wonder if it is an oversight and will be changed at some point, or if it is indeed working as intended. Would still be tough, but if our fruit cleansed our fairy too it'd at least keep it alive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat75
WHM revive can be done in battle at level 28 I think, however SMN/SCH revive can be done in battle at level 22 when you first unlock it. I've pulled off 'slow cast' 7 second revives in a lot of situations and recovered from failing encounters, but any time taken away from healing the tank or topping up players that take damage from non-avoidable mechanics, is an issue. As mentioned, this also included resummoning the pet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampt
All players should aim to take as little avoidable damage as they can because it effects every resource a healer has; Mana pool, where the heals are going, and the time spent casting those heals. While I wouldn't say DPS is as simple as just hitting rotations on a target, healers definitely are not as simple as "keep people healed". In a crucial moment, is it better to risk losing the tank to heal up a dps, or let the dps die? What if you can avoid that crucial moment from ever happening if the DPS had better positioning and didn't take the avoidable damage in the first place?
This isn't too downplay that there is a chance for things to go bad, but if it is the same person getting hit to the same mechanics every time, it isn't a 'chance' effect, it is a bad player effect. -
09-12-2013, 04:39 PMMalixThis and That are two different things. Not having the proper cross skills is the exact same thing as not having the proper subjob leveled in FFXI. The only real difference is that you can visibly see who doesn't on ffxi.Quote:
Originally Posted by e90guy
You will need it. I can tell you right now that doing Garuda without it will immediately put on u strictly tanking garuda and the other tank on the adds. If you both don't have it? you just made the fight harder. Saying you don't need it is a clear example of not knowing the advantages of it and not knowing how to tank.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat75
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09-12-2013, 04:40 PMEmeraldSerenadeSwiftcast wouldn't change the fact that one of you were horribly geared for that instance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat75
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09-12-2013, 04:41 PMJackl3
Hidden grind in disguise by S.E. -
You could say the skills aren't necessary, but then that's a lie, because most of them are important when it comes down to end-game/final content. If all the people in the group have all the abilities necessary, then that eliminates a point of failure.
FF11 required lv37 subjobs. Square know that this is another little slow-down, attempting to get you to re-live low level content and keep the areas busy as well.
The main point is: To be optimal and fully be at one with your 'main' class, then you need and should do all that is required in order to have everything possible at your disposal.
Sure, you can most likely get past the content with the basics, but why would you get by with the basics... when you can enhance yourself with more tools.
I'm currently working on my additional cross-skills, and as much as I dislike doing it, once it's over, I can then concentrate on the rest of the content knowing I'm bringing all my tools to the fight. -
09-12-2013, 04:42 PMmadolynI lol'ed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackcat75
/10char -
09-12-2013, 04:49 PMJynxiiI am currently in the same boat, and it doesn't help that THM is mind numbing (in my opinion at least), which isn't helped by the mind numbing of FATE grinding. Yesterday I took a break from levelling my sub classes to spam Leve/grind up gathering, and that is saying something. I've even started taking my CNJ into dungeons at a XP 'deficiency' to liven the releveling process up a little more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackl3
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09-12-2013, 04:49 PMBlackcat75In fairness we didn't tell her she had to, we suggested that it would be beneficial. Actually I was quite surprised that the other two players in the instance were quite nice and understanding that she was doing her best.Quote:
Originally Posted by madolyn
When I tanked any instance the first time starting at Sunken Temple (Where I learned 3 overpowers were no longer going to cut it for holding mob agro from the healer on the second and third mob in a pull.) almost everyone one of them was a universally ugly run with a lot of the wipes and problems being able to be directly attributed to my lack of knowledge of the instance.
It wasn't until Vale that I actually failed to finish an instance the first time thru before the timer expired.
And AK was the first instance I felt the need to apologize to the party and ask if they wanted me to step aside so they could get a new tank and finish the run.
That being said.. I have never failed an instance the second time thru it. -
09-12-2013, 04:56 PMVamptHaha thanks, I probably wouldn't have realized that for a long time. I saw that the whm had a passive ability for it so I just assumes sch couldn't XDQuote:
Originally Posted by Jynxii
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09-12-2013, 05:11 PMHik0
I think this thread pop too early in ARR life.
You cant expect everybody to have leveled several job on a 3weeks game! -
09-12-2013, 05:17 PMMalixThis is true, its not like ffxiv has been out since 2010... oh wait...Quote:
Originally Posted by Hik0
Its not like it only takes a couple of days to get the skill you need.... oh wait... -
09-12-2013, 05:31 PMMikedizzy
I don't really want to...but I am going to be leveling Lancer to get Blood for Blood for my ARC/BARD because that ability is just amazing...20% damage increase...yes please....take 25% more damage....hmmmmmmmm....don't take any REAL damage anyway...that seems like a fair trade to me.
Play how you want to play and just live with what happens...no big deal...it's not like you cannot change your mind later on...right?! -
09-12-2013, 05:36 PMSolAeternus
why do we need "best" performance?
Whatever happened to just enjoying the game?
Not everything has to be done the way you've seen it done on a stream or youtube. -
09-12-2013, 05:38 PMSTARSBarry
as a scholar I would say stone skin is completely useless especially considering how much damage it stops for the mana cost we have an AOE Heal that holds off about the same over the top of the heal for around the same mana cost 10% of your HP even on a tank is worthless
now the instant cast skill from thaumaturge, that is a different story, you can use it on resurrect or your pet summon or hell even on an instant cast heal if the tank needs healing at the same time you need to move out of an AOE, I think its one of the most usefull healing related skills to be found on another class -
09-12-2013, 05:45 PMrazzgrizz3
ressing with swiftcast is all good but what happens when its a healing intensive fight and i have to keep spending a large chunk of my mana pool to res your incompetent ass, and i have no more mana to heal anybody at all?
think before you post -
09-12-2013, 05:50 PMHik0yes because 100% of player are Legacy players that had all job leveled!Quote:
Originally Posted by Malix
what take playerA "only a few days" might take playerB more than a week just because B spend less time IG in a week than A in "only a few days".