Please Stop Crying About Personal Gil Insufficiency Issues.

ITT: people under level 50 thinking they understand higher level problems.

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Originally Posted by Flarestar

It's funny, I've seen a guy with your name in the forums of almost every MMO that's launched in the last 4-5 years. You always seem to be a bit slow on the uptake.

The vast majority of gil comes from non-repeatable quests. As more people get off of the quest treadmill at the end of the ride, less gil will be entering the economy, and more gil will be consumed by repairing high end gear. Without both a reduction in repair costs, and substantial gil generation being implemented for high level players, the result is a nonfunctional economy. No one's "demanding SE pander to their impatience". They're expecting SE to implement fixes for a problem that is already evident, and will only become worse as time goes on.

The repair cost reduction is going in, thankfully - how effective it is remains to be seen without corresponding introduction of gil generation methods.

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It's Funny,I haven't played an MMO other than EVE in last few years. So that part was complete bullshit... interesting.
As for calling me slow on the uptake lol sonshine if you wish to talk to me dont waste my time with schoolyard insults, because I just block silly teens for that.

As for the rest, well.. As I said when you rush to 50 thinking that is all the game is about then you can expect to have a few issues. My point stands I have 3 chars all in 30s an making enough cash to buy what I want without playing more than 3-4 hours a day....

Interesting that. As for the repair costs form dungeon farming instances, thats your fault. There is more to a game than farming a silly instance for a shiny.

VanillaH
That is exactly what silly raiders demand. They dont like it when crafters are not "Forced" to raid. Yet it isn't fair to have raiders craft or rely on crafters for repairs among other things?.... two way street usually.

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Originally Posted by Flarestar

[B]It's funny, I've seen a guy with your name in the forums of almost every MMO that's launched in the last 4-5 years. You always seem to be a bit slow on the uptake. The vast majority of gil comes from non-repeatable quests. As more people get off of the quest treadmill at the end of the ride, less gil will be entering the economy, and more gil will be consumed by repairing high end gear. Without both a reduction in repair costs, and substantial gil generation being implemented for high level players, the result is a nonfunctional economy. No one's "demanding SE pander to their impatience". They're expecting SE to implement fixes for a problem that is already evident, and will only become worse as time goes on.

The repair cost reduction is going in, thankfully - how effective it is remains to be seen without corresponding introduction of gil generation methods.

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Oh, ahaha...ahahah.... Yea I think he maybe getting confused between his current XP needed to level and his amount of gear needed...just like in planetside where he gets all confused at doors and walls and tanks looking at him in the face.

No what we're complaining about is 5k repair bills per night, and the thing is you cant make that much money back by doing quests etc, because your gear loses durability in the process, giving you more repairs. Iv gotten pretty lucky with random drops and went rather well selling alot of level 20-30 armour when people were gearing up and have 300k ATM after getting my base relic complete but all my auction house sales arnt generating more gil, they just transferring it from other players to me, the base underlying problem is once everybody is 50 and nobody's doing quests, there's more gil leaving the game than entering it. I personally never got why dark matter was removed, didn't SE see this would create a problem?

How exactly does crafting generate gil anyway? levelling it is a gil sink and selling it takes 5% of the gil out of the economy.

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Originally Posted by DwightParkman

yeah i figured i would see this excuse "cuz im not level 50 yet" but if i was level 50, i would make sure my crafting class was also level 50, which would undoubtly mean more money would be made, balancing out the higher repair bills, so no, that excuse is not valid. People just need to stop being lazy. Try not taking this as an attack, but as a friendly suggestion of help..

@Usotsuki

Well its part of the game, if you dont like it, then this game isnt for you.

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You won't get to experience the level 50 problems because by then SE will have eased that burden if the latest patch works. Your foolish talk of how you know the game reminds me of a single person trying to tell married people how they won't have any issues once they wed. Just more of the clueless discussing things they think instead of listening to those who know.

I'm a level 31 archer primary, and just recently took up blacksmithing and armory, and you know what?
I don't have squat to say about what others are complaining about, because I'm not there yet ;0
That is all

Well it looks like they agree with the gil problems (at all levels) and are reducing repair costs and costs of dark matter. Step one I guess, not that I have any gil problems... But thats only because I am legacy and have over 5mil.

ITT: People hitting 50 on a single DoW/DoM job teleporting everywhere and waiting until their gear breaks to repair complaining about not having money.

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Originally Posted by TasOgie

...the reason they are complaining is because they all exploited fates to rush to 50 in a few days, an suddenly find they are broke because they didn't take time to craft, quest explore an generally wander around making money as per normal. Now suddenly they are demanding SE pander to their impatience at needing to be level 50 in 5 mins.

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Originally Posted by TasOgie

It's Funny,I haven't played an MMO other than EVE in last few years.

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For an Eve player, I would've expected you to know a bit more about the economy side of things :p

I didn't rush to 50 (already maxed everything in 1.0), I'm certainly not broke - I've made a healthy sum already in 2.0 with little work, but guess what, I do agree with those that there current system is one that will head towards deflation eventually once the quest income dry up.

Now will deflation actually occur? extremely unlikely, I don't believe SE is so incompetent as to actually allow that to happen. That being said, whether one has been able to "make" gil is really irrelevant to the larger discussion on the system balance, and framing everyone who think there is an issue as lazy rush-to-50ers is just as bad as those who says if you aren't 50 you can't talk.

Repair costs are being nerfed.

New players bring new gil into the economy.

Levequests. They exist.

These economy threads are a non-issue. Though it's hilarious to watch the wailing and gnashing of teeth as dungeon runners realize that it's crafters and gatherers, not them, who are going to be most wealthy players on the server.

Crafting and gathering will not make you rich but they will sustain you.

DwightParkman wake up dude.

again this .. everyone seems know everything let me ask you this do you guys really know how much gil creating and how much gil leave ? everyone seems like economist here but without exact numbers how can you be so sure about everything .. only SE know this numbers and if there is really something like that .. they will do something about it dont mix hard earning gil with deflation

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Originally Posted by Aenarion

For an Eve player, I would've expected you to know a bit more about the economy side of things :p

I didn't rush to 50 (already maxed everything in 1.0), I'm certainly not broke - I've made a healthy sum already in 2.0 with little work, but guess what, I do agree with those that there current system is one that will head towards deflation eventually once the quest income dry up.

Now will deflation actually occur? extremely unlikely, I don't believe SE is so incompetent as to actually allow that to happen. That being said, whether one has been able to "make" gil is really irrelevant to the larger discussion on the system balance, and framing everyone who think there is an issue as lazy rush-to-50ers is just as bad as those who says if you aren't 50 you can't talk.

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im pretty sure its the same guy: https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/...9/#post-933449

Doesn't play other games but...though i could believe that...he didn't really play PS2...just kinda complained and died alot.

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Originally Posted by Halc

again this .. everyone seems know everything let me ask you this do you guys really know how much gil creating and how much gil leave ? everyone seems like economist here but without exact numbers how can you be so sure about everything .. only SE know this numbers and if there is really something like that .. they will do something about it dont mix hard earning gil with deflation

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Indeed, only SE have the hard numbers, but just like in Eve, while only CCP have the hard numbers, it doesn't prevent the players from being able to make educated estimates from information available in-game. TBH, most of what I see here are people who take up one position and then for whatever reason start shutting out everyone who disagrees with little thoughts given as to why.

I have no problem making(or rather, re-appropriate) gil, doesn't mean I'm suddenly blind to what I see just because of that.

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Originally Posted by TasOgie

I like to lie about who I am.

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You're pretty clearly the same Tasogie that constantly crapped up the Firefall, Planetside 2, and Rift forums. Your posting style is particularly distinctive. If you want to pretend you're someone else, feel free, but that only works if you don't, you know, type and converse exactly like you have everywhere else.

"My point stands I have 3 chars all in 30s an making enough cash to buy what I want without playing more than 3-4 hours a day...." <-- thank you for validating that you're a bit slow on the uptake. This problem will not affect you in the 30s, although the ramifications should already be pretty obvious.

We'll see what happens with the repair costs - it will take a pretty severe reduction to allow leves to make up for the gil generation deficit currently in place.

Do they not teach Economics in high school anymore?

This post made me chuckle. While I'll concede the OP hasn't a leg to stand on given he hasn't even cleared the level req for brayflox yet, I'll also note that he's right that subsistence-level gil farming (i.e. farming enough to keep up repairs and etc.) is incredibly easy. My highest crafting class is at like.. 12? I don't even know. Highest gathering is 19 miner. DoH and DoL have had almost no impact on my bottom line thus far (I've sold some items, but generally it feels just about net-neutral between the money made and money spent on equips and whatnots.

I don't really farm anything but tomestones (Ifrit/WP/AK/CM), and the only time I get below 100k is when I've been lazy. I won't divulge my trade secrets on the forums, but needless to say the market boards can be quite lucrative when you're paying attention.

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Originally Posted by Laeore

Do they not teach Economics in high school anymore?

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^this.

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Originally Posted by Aenarion

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well im not blind too, but what i see is players which suffering high repair fee and fast durability loss are blaming whole economy for that like there is no way to earn gil.. and they keep complain about how there will be no gil in the future ?? like SE will allow that ?? .. what i think is its just hard to earn gil here..but yea you can make it if you try. maybe there is a high repair fee and durability loss problem but that can be fixed (and will be) not with throwing gil everywhere but lowering the repair fee or durability loss .. if you keep askin "make gil easy" then infilation will raise. and another thing why nobody complain about repair fees at low lvl being too cheap ? -oh and i hope they dont cut that rep.fee to the 500gil or so

The're taking a 5% tax off each transaction, not feakin 5,000 Gil off each transaction. If the community is rich, then the tax is high, if too much Gil is taken off the economy, the community is poor and items sell at lower prices, thus lowering the actual tax too. Imagine an extreme situation every item is 20Gil, every transaction has a tax of 1 Gil. God you can play Monopoly all day without even noticing a Gil difference. Market's deflate and inflate on their own. The actual flunctuation can be dependant on the current influx of new players but it will still run in a cycle.

Just stop using the market as an excuse.

5% is 5%...

EDIT: And also it's 5-10% depending on where the retainer is located. The seller is always charged 5%, but the buyer may also be charged 5% if the retainer is in a different city.

Yet with SO MANY new players gil running out won't be an issue for ages, so all people are whining about is not being able to get rich without crafting.

Creating gil isn't, and won't be, an issue for quite a while, given the number of new players who most of them, probably won't then drain gil via endgame as not THAT many people are hardcore raiders.

Someone doesn't get it....

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Originally Posted by Halc

well im not blind too, but what i see is players which suffering high repair fee and fast durability loss are blaming whole economy for that like there is no way to earn gil..

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There is a distinct difference between earning Gil and creating gil, I've made well over 10mil during a 10 day period, at the same time destroying about a mil Gil through market tax/fees by myself alone.

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if you keep askin "make gil easy" then infilation will raise.

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I don't really care how "hard" it is to make Gil on an individual level, a lot of that is subjective. All I care about is a healthy economic system that is sustainable - which, btw, is one that has a slight inflation.

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Originally Posted by Tigerwong

The're taking a 5% tax off each transaction, not feakin 5,000 Gil off each transaction.

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You know, sales over 100k will have higher tax than mere 5k, and for those that take place cross-city, only 50k...

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If the community is rich, then the tax is high, if too much Gil is taken off the economy, the community is poor and items sell at lower prices, thus lowering the actual tax too. Imagine an extreme situation every item is 20Gil, every transaction has a tax of 1 Gil.

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For the market yes, but not for static overhead like repair/teleport etc.

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Market's deflate and inflate on their own.

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No, market reacts to various stimuli, whether internal or external, but it's not sentient, it doesn't act on its own with no reason.

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Originally Posted by FyeyaHerald

Yet with SO MANY new players gil running out won't be an issue for ages, so all people are whining about is not being able to get rich without crafting.

Creating gil isn't, and won't be, an issue for quite a while, given the number of new players who most of them, probably won't then drain gil via endgame as not THAT many people are hardcore raiders.

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This is so obvious, but yet so many people don't get it.

sorry but untill u start running dungeons man u don't no anything and selling items on the market ward isn't making money, yea u make money but ur draining it from another player. This is what people are talking about think about in this way.

Say SE dont think the Ecom in a few months nothing will be selling on the Market wards because people buy crafting items on there then try and sell to another player so all is doing is bouncing around 1.0 money. In a few months when all 1.0 player have no more money to spend and people have spent there money on repairs and crafting items, then sold them to NPC there wont be any more in the game. That is what people are crying over. Long at the long run not whats going on now.

rofl just made a bunch of gil, since someone listed allagan silver pieces on AH for 500g each XD and he had listed lige 30 something XD ppl are effing retarded. Think i've made a total of 100k just by buying ppls stuff which is either lower than what an npc would pay for it, or ppl who sell stuff for like 1k when it Worth more like 15-20k XD

Come to think of it, why dont we implement a kind of credit system by NPC. Ppl can go and burrow gil from NPCs and promise to return the gil after x amount of day.

If the player cannot return the said amount of gil, NPCs will harass the player, till the point of sending assassin NPCs during boss fights and stuff, probably even your inn room.

Imagine the drama we get to see!

for all the people claiming that "i dont know anything because im not level 50"
i now have a much better understanding of the current woes of level 50 gil fees because ive been helping multiple friends i know that just so happen to be level 50 with all their money problems completely, and its no where near as bad as you all make it out to be, just to test your tired theory.

the truth is this: your lazy, and need to stop being lazy.

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Originally Posted by DwightParkman

for all the people claiming that "i dont know anything because im not level 50"
i now have a much better understanding of the current woes of level 50 gil fees because ive been helping multiple friends i know that just so happen to be level 50 with all their money problems completely, and its no where near as bad as you all make it out to be, just to test your tired theory.

the truth is this: your lazy, and need to stop being lazy.

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Except you look foolish, yet again, because SE has announced that they are reducing the repair costs because it was a problem...

I'm sure someone will help you with that foot in your mouth. Once more people hit 50, like the rest of you low level experts, we will probably see more tweaks here and there.

lol OP you obiously don't know the difference between creating gil in the game, and taking gil off another person by selling something.

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Originally Posted by Bouteiller

Except you look foolish, yet again, because SE has announced that they are reducing the repair costs because it was a problem...

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Or they just caved to the people who won't stop complaining.

oh so im such a terrible person for helping people right? how exactly am i such a bad person because im trying to encourage people to try harder so they dont spoil it for the others? god forbid someone has a right sense of moral decency.

@Azrael

YES, i do. the gil creation is perfectly fine. Just do a ton of Leves with your allowances, sell allagans and vendor sell crap you dont need, youand the server economy will be fine. plus theres tons of people leveling up new classes all the time doing quests throughout the game, they those add plenty of new gil.

im sorry that im calling everyone out on their laziness, but its for the best, try not taking it as an attack.

seriously, just get off your lazy arse and run some dang leves!!!! they give plenty of money at level 50.

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Originally Posted by DwightParkman

@Azrael

YES, i do. the gil creation is perfectly fine. Just do a ton of Leves with your allowances, sell allagans and vendor sell crap you dont need

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and you still act like you are clueless. I earned over 200k by questing and leveling my arcanist.
What will you do when you will get out of quests? You will only loose, and earn nothing. A dungeon will never give you enough gil to cover the repair costs for using your gear.

Oh btw, I got tons of gil, don't really worry about it, but I can notice the problem and I can see it is a big issue for new players especially on new servers

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Originally Posted by DwightParkman

snip basically QQ.

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Don't try to make yourself a victim when I never said anything against you helping people. The argument here isn't helping people. I help people all the time, it's fun to do and makes you feel good. You call people lazy. For what? Not "working" in a game? How stupid does that statement sound? If you had any sense it would sound insane. A healthy economy works on supply and demand, in order for there to be demand everyone can't supply their own goods. In order for this to work perfectly, everyone can't craft/gather.

Raiders/Dungeon runners aren't going to be rich, but they wan't to be able to, at minimum, sustain. It's what Yoshi promised them, to be able to play how they want. If they want to run dungeons and skip crafting, they should be able to. If you guys want to walk around in diamond coats because you "work" then you should be able to, too. Reducing repair costs should help this situation immensely.

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Originally Posted by Bouteiller

angry lazy midget attempt at sounding intellectual

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the economy is fine. stop fishing for excuses on making an already terrribly easy game even more easy.

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Originally Posted by DwightParkman

the economy is fine.

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And that's how you lose an argument. Brought to you by Dwight Parkman.

In it's current population distribution, sure. More lowbies that higher ups bringing in lots of new money from quests and such. In time, who knows. My biggest beef was with the in sustainability of dungeon runners. Lowering repair costs should help them. In order to get any read of an economy a game should probably be out for more than 2 weeks. But no go ahead and continue to act as if you know anything when your max class is currently a weaver...

Not fishing for excuses. The changes I wanted are already being implemented, while you sit there scolding people for not being you. That's really messed up. Market costs are a way to even off an economy, so I don't mind them. The big blow up we have seen on the forums was about 50s running out of money and thinking this was going to happen to everyone. May not have, but either way they couldn't play the game the way they wanted. SE is making changes so they can. This should keep the peace, except for weasels like you who think you're better than everyone.

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Originally Posted by DwightParkman

already terrribly easy game even more easy.

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So easy that you are still 32 and never experienced end game to know something about it

/facepalm 1,000 times

The only real question is will a lowering of the repair costs and cost of Dark Matter be enough?

And can people please stop saying "Why don't you just get naked and mine/harvest *x* mat for a few days and vendor it?!" because I have no intention of subscribing to this game if I would be subscribing to a job. A little bit of work is fine, nothing should be free as that is part of the challenge and fun, but I will not pick up a second job just to support my virtual character in a game I'm already paying for. If this is something that you like to do then you have probably never had a real job before and are probably still living with your guardian(s).

if your server ecomony is bad is becuase everyone on your server is just doing fates.. gaining extreme xp and little gil, because poeple dont balance gameplay and want to rush to 50 they end up been 50 in a week with no gil to their name and then get to endgame and start burning gil on repair.

i assure you if in between every 2 fates. people would queue into a pair of guildhests(around 3k in 10 min or less) and did some leves (leves reward allagan coins.. 1 silver allagan is around 1k gil plus reward gil). the server would have a gil rich economy.

but nooooo.. is not enoguh that SE prostituted XP gain.... you guys want gil pouring from O'ghomoro Volcano..

yeeeah make it rain SE make it raiiin..pff..

Its funny how the op is telling everyone to stop whining and then you look at his sig...