Cooking shard costs, 30 minute duration, fading on death.

It's a question of immersion.
When i eat a burger it doesn't magically disappear from my stomach when i die.

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Originally Posted by Phe

It's a question of immersion.
When i eat a burger it doesn't magically disappear from my stomach when i die.

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But you're not getting much enjoyment from it anymore either...

Food shouldn't cancel when you die, that simple.

Am I the only one that think the stats on the food is crap? Only VIT will actually do a real difference. Well, the control and perception food are decent enough i guess.

But for fighting, they are not good. You will not really notice 20-30 Crit rating/speed. That is like 0.1-.2%?

Only reason I actually use food is because I'm an old FFXI player. But only on things like titan since the VIT will help some.

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Originally Posted by Phe

It's a question of immersion.
When i eat a burger it doesn't magically disappear from my stomach when i die.

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you also generally dont get 'raised' after you die, do you?

BUT, people actually do 'empty out' (ahem) when they die - so its realistic

Yeah, SE seems to have a personal grudge against consumables. Oh well.

Please fix consumables.

yes please do!! I think this has been brought up countless number of times. I plan to get my Culinarian to 37 and nothing more because the only food worth using on Culinarian is food for crafting or botany. Using food in a dungeon, especially end game becomes a waste because bam 5 minutes in, you wipe, food gone. If you're going to make food wipe on death then you should give it better stats that way we at least get rewarded for NOT dying and losing it.

tl;dr: Please make food last upon death OR increase its stats if it will get lost upon death.

Agreed. Too high cost currently (shards) and/or doesn't last long enough.

Casuals gonna casual

let's all have permanent stats boost with each meal on top of the 30 min buff that doesn't fade on death..

-.-

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Originally Posted by Wobi

That wasn't sarcasm, in every event/fight I've done I am the only person with a food icon next to my name.
There is no reason not to be eating food unless you feel like being a gimp.

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Haha Right +30 points on Int gave me +10 dmg to Ruin 2. So most food are trash. Take some time to check how much dmg you do before and after using food. Theres probably just a few food worth using.

Having played FFXI, I think it would be pretty stupid if food buffs persisted through death.

Though I also agree that the benefits of eating food (at least for battle content) don't justify the cost.

Half the forum complains that the game is too easy. Then you have people complaining that they have to re-apply food after death and that makes the game harder because then they need more resources, time and money to aqcuire more and they don't think they should have to bother with that.

Incase you guys didn't realize it... this is how games get dumbed down. Next something else will be a new annoyance and they will have to adjust that until everything is so simple you log in and epics fall at you feet. Wait? Doesn't that already happen in a game?

the complaint isn't that it's too easy/too hard.
the complaint is that you have to waste a lot more money/resources on food that has short lived effects vs all other crafting.
I make a cotton pair of pants -> it lasts me for 10 levels while I craft/gather.
I make a food which requires 6 different ingredients instead of 3 for the pants -> it lasts 30 minutes -> I die within 3 minutes food is gone.

That's the point everyone in this thread is trying to make.

Things id like to see changed:

- all food up to 1 star recipes yield 3 per synth
- 2 star recipes yield 1 per synth, HQ synth would increase duration to 1 hour and allow for the food effect to persist through death

I wonder why people never bitched about food going away when dieing in FFXI?

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Originally Posted by Nukocafe

the complaint isn't that it's too easy/too hard.
the complaint is that you have to waste a lot more money/resources on food that has short lived effects vs all other crafting.
I make a cotton pair of pants -> it lasts me for 10 levels while I craft/gather.
I make a food which requires 6 different ingredients instead of 3 for the pants -> it lasts 30 minutes -> I die within 3 minutes food is gone.

That's the point everyone in this thread is trying to make.

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Real life... my pants consist of approximately 3-4 materials and my food.... who knows, but usually way more. When I eat it's gone, yet my pants stay much longer and sometimes actually can cost less than food. That is all in real life.

No one cares about real life, but I thought it was entertaining to make a comparison. In game if you want to min/max you need the best stats and if food nets the best stats then you need food. If you need food then you need to acquire food. You want your food to last longer so that you don't need as much food which means you have less work to prepare for end game dungeon runs... which in turn makes the game just a little bit easier. THAT is my point.

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Originally Posted by necrosis

I wonder why people never bitched about food going away when dieing in FFXI?

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Because of the things you lost when you died... losing some food wasn't as bad as hours of exp grinding or possibly a level.

You all realize that if crafting food produces more than one item and/or it lasts longer and/or it doesn't wear off on death, then everybody making food will see profits drop to a point where it's only worth doing if you're botting or something? Why do you want to kill off your own craft?

Please fix/revamp/overhaul consumables in this game! Especially health/MP potions and 2 star food(as well as making food less grindy to make). Thank you.

Whoever changed up how food works in ARR compared to 1.0 needs to be slapped.

I went out to Costa del Sol to try and farm Apkallu Eggs to make La Noscean Toast (since that seems to be the only appropriate tank food imo) just a few minutes ago. Of course, the place is over-camped by 3 people, all on Bard, who can insta-claim everything...

Several things need to happen:

- If certain ingredients can only be found as mob drops, then the mobs that drop them need to be more plentiful. Either that, or nerf BRD's somehow, since they're OP at claiming low-level mobs.
- All mobs need to drop shards/crystals again
- Item yields when cooking meals need to be increased
- Food effects should not fade upon death
- Foods with high stat requirements should have appropriate level requirements so that players can easily identify what they should be using
- Bring back foods that boost stats such as STR, DEX, attack power, etc.
- If foods MUST require clusters to make, then they should have more powerful effects (for example, a Lv50 food that gives +5 to all stats)

The problem is shards. We weren't supposed to be spending 9:1 time farming shards over everything connected to crafting. Food is the only craft with an inherited decay system so it really gets to see what hurts all the crafting. We don't craft, we mash the Insert key on lv. 5 nodes most of our game time and I don't call it playing just because I am logged in.

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Originally Posted by Ksenia

The problem is shards. We weren't supposed to be spending 9:1 time farming shards over everything connected to crafting. Food is the only craft with an inherited decay system so it really gets to see what hurts all the crafting. We don't craft, we mash the Insert key on lv. 5 nodes most of our game time and I don't call it playing just because I am logged in.

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Buy shards from the market then.

Argue that synthing food shouldn't cost as many shard as it does, and I'll agree with you, but argueing that Cooking is broken because you spend more time farming shards than cooking is not a valid argument.

To those saying that food thru death buffs is dumbing down the game and will lead to its ultimate destruction I have this to say to you. Do you even cook in game? Do you seriously understand that I as a crafter spend hours in a week just trying to get enough shards to make food for my FC? You do understand that one piece of food takes 11 shards! I am so back logged I farm at work, and even then its not enough. I can get about 500 fire shards in a hour, I also need water shards, so 2 hours of farming means I can make about 80 pieces of food, TWO HOURS! And thats not counting the items I need to farm to make the food itself! I can only sell HQ for any gil and even now on my server the prices are dropping. Do you think that 3-4 hours of farming that nets me 20 or so hq is worth the measly gil I can make off it when other crafters are raking in the gil with only a fraction of the time spent farming? If spending a part time jobs worth of farming exclusively for one craft that no one can use effectively on what amounts to slave wages in game is what you call "dumbing the game down" to unacceptable levels of play, I call you mad sir.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

Buy shards from the market then.

Argue that synthing food shouldn't cost as many shard as it does, and I'll agree with you, but argueing that Cooking is broken because you spend more time farming shards than cooking is not a valid argument.

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RMT have the shard market at stupid prices, when we cant make money on our craft because no one uses it and the shards cost 55g each (on Midgard) and it takes 11 shards to make one item, wellll maybe your argument is the one that isn't vaild.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

Buy shards from the market then.

Argue that synthing food shouldn't cost as many shard as it does, and I'll agree with you, but argueing that Cooking is broken because you spend more time farming shards than cooking is not a valid argument.

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Don't even go there. With the bot based ban system, interacting with shard markets is begging to have your account locked. Besides, we shouldn't need to buy shards because it's a prison sentence to collect them.

But its not a prison sentence.

Don't argue that you're "forced" to farm shards (because you aren't). Your "get account locked" argument also doesn't hold any water because, if anything, you're only likely to get your account locked from selling shards not from buying them.

Like I said, if you want to argue that synthing food shouldn't cost that many shards, I'll agree with you, but complaining about farming shards simply isn't a valid argument. You don't want to gather your ingredients, then buy them from those that will, because I spend more time farming ingredients than doing actual synths on ALL my DoH classes.

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Originally Posted by Yurikitty

I can get about 500 fire shards in a hour, I also need water shards, so 2 hours of farming means I can make about 80 pieces of food, TWO HOURS!

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This argument is pretty pointless anyway, but I can get around 1000 shards per hour on the nodes outside the cities. You need to optimize your gathering routes.

Posting limits reached so:

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Originally Posted by Ksenia

Rubbish.

Rectangular circuit, sprint on the long, run to the short. Use a ward on third cycle of the +1 and you get 17 and 27 on third cycle. I know the process. It's above and beyond grind and it isn't required. We had shard processing in the game, they took it out to create a throttle based on undesirable content and that's a scam down by development. Stop defending lazy hack, fixes.

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Rubbish? More like reality.

And sorry, but I'm not defending the "lazy hack" what I'm doing is pointing out that you don't have to farm your shards. 1.0 having easier ways of farming shards is completely irrelevant because you are not forced to farm them in ARR, so using the argument "I spend more time farming shards than synthing so Cooking is broken" is stupid because you could walk to the Market boards and "farm" them pretty much instantly.

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Originally Posted by Yurikitty

I do maximize my routes, I go to the crystal nodes and use my wards on the nodes that give a bonus shard giving me 16 shards for that tree alone.

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See? This is where you're not "maximizing your route". You don't use wards on the node that gives you extra crystals, you use wards on the nodes that give you an extra gathering attempt. You're only getting 8 extra shards on that node when you could be getting 10 extra shards on the +1 gathering attempts node.

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Originally Posted by Yurikitty

As a level 28 botanist and level 27 miner Gilthas Ragnaux I am calling your claim of 1k shards a hour. You cant even have the GP to efficiently make a loop like I do. Also, you dont have cooking or any other craft up to 50 it seems. When you get there then why dont you come back and tell me and Ksenia that we are still talking out our bums....

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*rolls eyes*

Yes, I need to be a level 50 Botanist and Miner to understand simple math.

- Between level 27 and 50 you gain NO ability more efficient than Wards for gathering shards.
- I currently have on both Miner and Botanist roughly 500 GP (one has 495, the other 506 or so, not counting food). You just need a small buffer over 400GP to make sure you're not wasting the GP you regenerate.
- As a level 27 Miner and 28 Botanist I've apparently managed to figure out that Wards are better used on the +1 gathering attempts nodes and not the extra items nodes, something that Mrs level 50 Botanist, the expert here apparently, couldn't figure out.

I've actually already agreed that cooking shouldn't cost as many shards by the way, I just don't agree that "I spend more time farming ingredients than synthing" is a valid argument.

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Originally Posted by Yurikitty

RMT have the shard market at stupid prices, when we cant make money on our craft because no one uses it and the shards cost 55g each (on Midgard) and it takes 11 shards to make one item, wellll maybe your argument is the one that isn't vaild.

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Uh, RMT actually makes the prices go DOWN. They botfarm and undercut everybody so they'll get the gil they sell. Without them shards would be a lot more expensive, so I guess it's not all bad, in a way.

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Originally Posted by Ksenia

Don't even go there. With the bot based ban system, interacting with shard markets is begging to have your account locked. Besides, we shouldn't need to buy shards because it's a prison sentence to collect them.

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Yeeaaah, you won't get banned because you buy shards off of the market. That's ludicrous talk. And you don't buy shards because "it's a prison sentence to collect them", you buy them because it's a hell of a lot more efficient. I've got every craft at 50. Guess how long I spent farming shards for that. It's a trick question though, because I didn't spend any time farming shards, since I bought them from the market. And still made money. Because I sold the stuff I was crafting on the market.

Now I happen to agree that shards should be easier to come by. Maybe give alchemist recipes for splitting clusters into multiple crystals, and crystals into multiple shards. That'd at least give Alchemists something useful! But complaining that you HAVE to mine shards for hours because you go broke is ludicrous. If you go broke crafting, you're doing it wrong!

This week in Coil I did turn 1-4 with 2 uses of food. It shouldn't last through death, but maybe a hour over 30 minutes wouldn't be bad.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

Like I said, if you want to argue that synthing food shouldn't cost that many shards, I'll agree with you, but complaining about farming shards simply isn't a valid argument. You don't want to gather your ingredients, then buy them from those that will, because I spend more time farming ingredients than doing actual synths on ALL my DoH classes.



This argument is pretty pointless anyway, but I can get around 1000 shards per hour on the nodes outside the cities. You need to optimize your gathering routes.

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Rubbish.

Rectangular circuit, sprint on the long, run to the short. Use a ward on third cycle of the +1 and you get 17 and 27 on third cycle. I know the process. It's above and beyond grind and it isn't required. We had shard processing in the game, they took it out to create a throttle based on undesirable content and that's a scam down by development. Stop defending lazy hack, fixes.

Pointing out to the people saying RMT help the shard prices go down, maybe... but that doesnt change the fact on my server, all the "cheap" stacks are for 10000 or more shards at a time. So yeah maybe I can get those shards for 45g each, but Im not paying 45k plus for so many shards at a time. And there is no way you are pulling 1k shards a hour. I do maximize my routes, I go to the crystal nodes and use my wards on the nodes that give a bonus shard giving me 16 shards for that tree alone, I have the most GP I can get minus a few materia slots, and I refuse to use cordials, other then that I am doing the best possible. I call serious shenanigans on you getting 1k a hour. As for the other items, well we can't all buy gil and some of us can't farm non stop on game, I do have end game to get to.... I guess Im not as rich as you and dont feel throwing money away on farmable items is worth what gil I do manage to make in game.

As a level 28 botanist and level 27 miner Gilthas Ragnaux I am calling your claim of 1k shards a hour. You cant even have the GP to efficiently make a loop like I do. Also, you dont have cooking or any other craft up to 50 it seems. When you get there then why dont you come back and tell me and Ksenia that we are still talking out our bums....

Bot shards are much less common now than they were a few weeks ago.

Shards are also trivial to gather. Even getting 594 fire and water shards to make say 99 buttons in a blanket is only going to take you an hour and a half or so. I have charted my shard gathering times. It takes me about 7 minutes to get 100 shards. If you're using them yourself and you're the sole supplier, an hour and a half is not excessive considering how many hours 99 foods will last you even if you're wiping a lot. How can you really say "You can't even have the GP to efficiently make a loop like I do." All you want is 300GP for your ward. Having more GP doesn't change your GP gain rate. You'll still get 5 GP back per swing, 5GP back per tick. You'll still be able to only do 1 ward every 300 GP.

There are issues with culinary, but I'd say the viability of two-star recipes is a bigger thing than the shard cost of popular recipes.

Greetings,

We are currently working on adjustments for patch 2.1 to make it so food effects do not wear off when you are KOed.

We understand that there have been a lot of feedback asking for longer effect durations or higher stats when considering the materials needed for high level recipes, but we’d first like to monitor the situation with the planned adjustments.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

Greetings,

We are currently working on adjustments for patch 2.1 to make it so food effects do not wear off when you are KOed.

We understand that there have been a lot of feedback asking for longer effect durations or higher stats when considering the materials needed for high level recipes, but we’d first like to monitor the situation with the planned adjustments.

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THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ♡～(´ε｀ )

hmm.. well this is going to drive the price of food down.

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

Greetings,

We are currently working on adjustments for patch 2.1 to make it so food effects do not wear off when you are KOed.

We understand that there have been a lot of feedback asking for longer effect durations or higher stats when considering the materials needed for high level recipes, but we’d first like to monitor the situation with the planned adjustments.

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Thank you so much for this news. I know many people who would love to have food last past death.

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Originally Posted by KittenStomper

hmm.. well this is going to drive the price of food down.

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Very likely the opposite I suspect. Currently nobody uses food, except in t4+ Coil, for fear of lose upon death. Lasting through death will drastically increase the perceived value of food and more buyers = more demand = higher prices. Maybe not by too much, but they will be worth using at least.

Now the price for raw mats is the real question, will apkallu eggs be a nightmare in 2.1?

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Originally Posted by Okipuit

Greetings,

We are currently working on adjustments for patch 2.1 to make it so food effects do not wear off when you are KOed.

We understand that there have been a lot of feedback asking for longer effect durations or higher stats when considering the materials needed for high level recipes, but we’d first like to monitor the situation with the planned adjustments.

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Originally Posted by KittenStomper

hmm.. well this is going to drive the price of food down.

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Great idea dev. even great point mr/ms kittenstomper.

Solution: Food remaining time drops 5-10 minutes upon every death.

Instead of being completely lost or completely de-valuing food, implement a way where upon each death the remaining time is diminished not completely eradicated?

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Originally Posted by zdub303

Very likely the opposite I suspect. Currently nobody uses food, esp in coil/dungeons for fear of a wipe. Lasting through death will drastically increase the perceived value of food and more buyers = more demand = higher prices. Maybe not by too much, but they will be worth using at least.

Now the price for raw mats is the real question, will apkallu eggs be a nightmare in 2.1?

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Speak for yourself. My FC has people who craft in the company and we always try to use food.

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Originally Posted by Daniolaut

Instead of being completely lost or completely de-valuing food, implement a way where upon each death the remaining time is diminished not completely eradicated.

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Yeah I edited my post a little, we do use food in t4+. I try to quick synth some cheaper food like Knight's Bread but otherwise I haven't found the time input vs reward is worth it until turn 4.

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Originally Posted by KittenStomper

hmm.. well this is going to drive the price of food down.

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I doubt it. It probably won't even have any effect since the real problem is that synthing food simply costs too much in terms of materials for what you get. If recipees were changed so that they now give multiple yields instead of just one, that would drive the prices down.

Unlike what many people here say, I also don't see this change making more people use food. People currently don't use food because food effects are simply too weak AND completely unnecessary to clear content. This isn't like FFXI where food effects had a very noticeable effect on the performance of physical dd jobs. For mages, Ginger cookies were probably the best, lol.

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Originally Posted by KittenStomper

hmm.. well this is going to drive the price of food down.

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I don't think so. Right now most of my FC don't eat food for most attempts because it is expensive and the first few attempts when training someone new we expect to wipe.

With this change everyone would be willing to eat food because it will last the full duration.