FATEs are killing Dungeons and team play

Then what?? all with healers at queues¿? XD

I vote on boosting exp elsewhere. I like options. Some of you nostalgic people wanting FF11 back should find something similar. This aint it.

Alright, so I've now spent the last few days in FATE parties to see what everyone is complaining about... having not really ever joined a FATE party until I posted here first a few days back.
That being said, I can see both sides of the argument rather well. People can get their main class up to level 50 (given a few breaks in quests) without using FATEs or at least sparingly so.
The problem then becomes when you work on a second class and no longer have those quests available to help level with, this should be where FATEs come in to play.
But people aren't using FATEs to just level their secondary class(es) alone.

So to continue a bit due to limited post size... Something needs to be added if FATEs are nerfed, perhaps expanded class quests to ease the pain of leveling alternate classes or something of that nature that is only available to alternate classes. But when people start crying for NERFs... they never stop, and then everything gets NERFED to where nothing is playable. So I say, lets see what can be added/improved/balanced rather than crying aimlessly for everything to get nerfed.

The biggest issue I have is that fate parties are everywhere now. Even in level 10 areas. No one levels without it anymore. Not even people who leveling their first class because people taught them so. I am really glad that all my classes I need now are finished and I never have to experience these kind of fate parties in low levels. It is really upsetting how player destroy a great game with that....

The thing you can do is making dungeons more profitable for items and experience giving various bonuses how you do. Which also includes death because I am also tired of these stupid sacrifice pulls so you can beat a dungeon in 20 minutes while there are mobs in there that give like 1k exp. But people do not realize this and just go for items.

Maybe cut the fate XP by 50%, and then award a FATE xp doubler once your story is completed?

FATEs are not the problem here. It is the fact that the exp you get from dungeons is awful. Not to mention most dungeons past 30 are a complete nightmare for healers. Dps steals aggro, tank can't hold aggro off the healer (FFS). Why go through the stress of a dungeon why you can just run FATEs?

Dungeons need to offer way more experience.

too many arc's

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Originally Posted by ShinkuTachi

Why are the FATE haters not taking into account the fact that there are multiple jobs to be lvl'd, you can run out of story quests, and clear your map of quests. This leaves you with almost nothing but job quests, job monster hunt book pages, leves and hests (3 allowances a day, caps at 99), dungeon runs (30+ in que unless you're a tank or heals) and you only get full exp in a successful group, and FATEs.

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my personal hate has nothing to do with that. I acknowledge that its the only way to level new classes after the first few.

and thats EXACTLY THE PROBLEM

expwise,. NOTHING else in the game is worth running. Ergo, I either take months to level extra classes, or I join the endless roving zerg of "I hope I make it in time to get some ex-aw Bronze, crud."

I think some of the issue is the fact the story is one time only. It leave out the ability to do so as another class.

As some others have said run dungeons are not terrible fun. The exp is low, the agro system (tanking) is rather iffy , one of the healer classes doesn't get a debuff remover till 40!

Its that everything besides fate is horrible exp right now. Leve, dungeons and heck even the story if you do mostly that leaves you needing more exp to continue.

Lastly normal quest aren't repeatable either. This ends up making fates needed if you do most of them with your first run.

simple fix to the fate would be to simply either:
A remove ability to get credits for action done in parties especially for exp
or B limit it.

the only reason why everyone is hopped up on fate parties it because they doing in group with everyone in the group getting credit for action regardless of who did or did not take part in the fate so long as they are close enough to it

as for fate being the only way to level other classes that is only partially true. you also have leves which can also be down in groups (normal levees not grand company leve) which everyone in the group is able to part take in regardless or not if anyone in the part has leve points(leve allowance)
then there are the dungeons and guild hest which can be run as many times as person wants. there are ways to level up other classes but everyone rather take the easy way up.

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Originally Posted by Twinlance

I think some of the issue is the fact the story is one time only. It leave out the ability to do so as another class.

As some others have said run dungeons are not terrible fun. The exp is low, the agro system (tanking) is rather iffy , one of the healer classes doesn't get a debuff remover till 40!

Its that everything besides fate is horrible exp right now. Leve, dungeons and heck even the story if you do mostly that leaves you needing more exp to continue.

Lastly normal quest aren't repeatable either. This ends up making fates needed if you do most of them with your first run.

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you get the debuff remover esuna at 18

Scholar doesn't get one till 40 the other current healer class.

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Originally Posted by Deathgasm

Group finder is empty, There are non even some DPS, because the FATEs gives too much experience points.
Everybody is roaming mindlessly from FATE to FATE.
Chat is filled with grouping for FATE demands or offers.

It's shame that this system corrupts the game, please Squee, nerf FATE ASAP, don't boost XP in dungeons, because they are not the problem.

Also, casters not in those roaming bands can't cast before mobs are dead, and no we won't accept to group because we'll loose our place in dungeons queue.

Sorry that I prefer team play than mindless roaming and farming in a MMORPG.

I'll won't renew sub if this problem is not solved because I don't want to share anything with mindless people who only want profit and not sharing something interesting and together.

Let's call that lovely game FATE Fantasy, as it's what it came to be.
Voila, thanks for reading.

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FATES have nothing to do with it. If you're not a tank or a healer, you're going to end up waiting as the majority always roles dps.This is true for pretty much every mmo that has group finder. Even WoW has 20 min + wait times for dps. Case in point, I am leveling tank and I get an instant pop every time I enter the queue.

When people are getting to lvl 50 in the first week of a re-release of a MMO (exception is legacy players) there is something seriously wrong. What happened to the sense of adventure? What happened to the feeling of accomplishment in a MMO? Fates take that away from an MMO! In this game, it seems that all you need to do is go to a zone, open map, look for the huge blue fate indicator on the map, run there, spam spells/zerg, and move on to the next. Most of the time you don't even know who is in your party, what class they are or job they have, and just run around like a bunch of lemmings who just want that quick exp. YAY CONGRATZ YOU ARE LVL 50 BECAUSE YOU WERE A LEMMING AND KNOW HOW TO SPAM SPELLS/ZERG!!! I think fates should be done away with.There is a world out there that isn't surrounded by a hoard of lemmings on mounts. I Strongly suggest going off and finding it. You will find me out there ...someplace...

There are a lot new people that are having fun in the 8 man fate parties and there meeting people on there servers , Yea level seems fast , but they need to do it this way for now , to balance the game , Other wise all the legacy players that are 50, Would be so far ahead everyone that they would elite the game and hurt the game , for any new players. They would have had to have everyone start from level 1 then could made the grind harder. They now can do what ever they want on updates to make it harder. One thing that would be nice is in the more popular fates they make the mobs not so squishy .

The FATE XP is good but to the people complaining that it takes forever to backfill slots if someone leaves during a dungeon then the issue here isn't FATEs. It's because most people don't have the "Join Groups In Progress" box ticked on the Duty Finder.

As a Bard it takes me on average 45-60 minutes to get a group together via DF. As a WHM the thing pops as soon as I queue up. So go figure that most of the DDs are going to go on FATE zerg fests to level considering they can't do any group content, at all, whilst in the DF queue. If DF allowed you to stay in the queue if you joined a party then I imagine more people would show up in dungeons. But most of the time I see people trying to make groups themselves via Shout because it's quicker than waiting on the DF.

FATEs are a symptom of a bigger problem, not the issue in and of itself. The XP is too high for FATEs I'll agree, but to pin FATEs as the reason you're having a bad time in DF is just not the case.

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Originally Posted by Deathgasm

Everybody is roaming mindlessly from FATE to FATE.

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Don't hate the FATE. Embrace your FATE.
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__...ork_moogle.jpg
It's not too late.

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Originally Posted by Scripted_reality

I vote on boosting exp elsewhere. I like options. Some of you nostalgic people wanting FF11 back should find something similar. This aint it.

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Just want to point out that the playstyle of pre-abyssea FFXI is still unique outside of instanced dungeons. Pre-CoP economy in FFXI is also still unique. Every other game has been a WoW clone in playstyle with some unique tidbits here and there.

Now for the topic at hand. My only gripe with the FATE system is it's heavily centered around AoE skills/spells. My lancer has nothing until level 46. Otherwise I don't care too much.

Im not sure it matters how much "adventure" you put into a game, people will still rush to cap. That dont mean people aint actually taking their time and enjoying themselves as well tho. Fates, if not taken advantage of, are a fine addition to an mmo. Dont forget that people like to rush, its fun to them. Just like taking in the adventure is to you.

Literally every decent mmo in the past 3-4 years has been like this, not sure why everyone is so surprised. Literally 2-3 days to reach cap on them I would know since I've done it with a friend in almost every single one of them.

No I don't rush content, I just happen to have a lot of free time and we've played so many mmo's together we have gotten really good at doing quests efficiently/fast. You can hate people leveling faster than you all you want but seriously you don't need to do it. It's obvious this is the way SE wants it since there's a 50% bonus when killing mobs and doing fates (the 2 things fate parties do).

Not to mention the fact that DPS would be at a huge disadvantage if dungeons were the best way to level, I played on a server where no one did fate parties the first week or so and dungeon queue's were upwards of an hour for dps...that's incredibly ridiculous.

Edit : SE won't change this, just look at FFXI, so just adapt or just keep leveling up your own way.

Make FATEs give a quarter of the XP they do now, but twice as many Grand Company seals. Problem solved.

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Originally Posted by Eikko_Fenrir

Maybe but later levels when you run out of story quest (between 47-48) you might be glad you had fate or something else to grind with besides just leves.

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Pretty much this. I ran out of main or side quests at 47, out of leves and dungeons were just taking too long, so i joined a fate grind party. Got two levels that day, and the next continued the story. Not much else to do at those levels.

I hope i don't get flamed for this, but one thing WoW did recently that i really liked, the whole scenario thing. short group instances that didn't need a trinity, and while the rewards weren't as good as dungeons, as a dps i could get a near instant pop and get some gold and gear and have fun. Guildhests are 'close', but after the first they reward squat, and seem to stop at 40. Make more of them, with better rewards, and possibly even ones that don't need 1/1/2 and i'd be happy. Just something that i don't have to wait close to an hour for would be good.

I'm wondering how to get the Frostbite sword from this dungeon as well. I've beaten it twice and alot of the forums and info sites say it dropped by the final boss of Toto Rak in the level 24 mission of the main story. How've you guys gotten this weapon??? ANy luck??

We have to take into account the quite long queue that DPS role have to endure.
I myself am a Pugilist (low-level for now), and when i come back from work, I don't really wanna spend 30mn waiting for the dungeon to start.

So i start questing, and then i'm joigning a fate-farming party. And when I finally decide to wait for a dungeon to start, i find myself (most of the time) having a hard time with an incompatible party :tank not really doing his job seems to be common fact in low-levels, because we don't have to tank when farming fates.
And I must be not so good as DPS too, with the little real experience we can get.

My point is :
- Dungeon long queue (idk how it is high-level) is killing dungeons
- FATES are happening too frequently, and killing gameplay because players who don't want to wait just farm those.

Quite a vicious loop.

not to mention Dungeons drop crap for the most part. Other than moving your story line along, I see no point to them at all.

I love FATE's. They are one of the most enjoyable parts of the game for me. I don't know why, all of a sudden, they are being blamed for every problem this game has. If you took them out of the game completely, there would still be terrible players in your dungeons. I played WoW and FFXI, neither had FATE's, and many parties in those games lacked communication and team play.

to show how fates ruin party play and comradeship(?) here is an example
i was in a lvl 25-30 zone, doing main story so i occasionally joined fates as the appeared.. now.. all fates that where mindless aoe attack attack attack.. where completed with gold..

fates that actually needed party mechanisms and had an objective.. failed.. so as a good FFxiv player i /sh
"next time we do this we should get ixals away from the boxes so we can win it!!! ^.^"
the reply i get.. /sh SHUT UP, YOUR AN IXAL...
aaand i stop doing fates....

Personally I'd rather do dungeons, but the xp is pretty bad, no seals, you usually lose more money on repairs than you gain, and although the loot is good, there's not much of it. So I always feel that the dungeons are a waste, especially when you add in the queue time. If they improved some or all of those aspects I'd happily queue up my healer again and again. But until then, I do it once, unless a fc member needs it, and do questing/fates for the rest.

i've been stuck in stone vigil quest (lev 41 main scenario quest) for 3days now, maybe because majority are into fates :(

I think the biggest problem was they made Dungeons part of the Story Quest. They should all be optional, unfortunately, most will skip the main SQ's and opt for Fates and an occasional Dungeon. The gear drops in dungeons are horrid. Again, other than to continue the Story, why bother?

Duty Finder isn't the only way to find groups. You have linkshells, free companies and friends (well...online friends). To me, that's the problem some of you are facing. It has nothing to do with the way FATEs are.

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Originally Posted by Thatispookins

Duty Finder isn't the only way to find groups. You have linkshells, free companies and friends (well...online friends). To me, that's the problem some of you are facing. It has nothing to do with the way FATEs are.

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THIS. THIS. THIS. Why is it so hard for people to take the initiative? Instead of making threads where you complain about whether you're for/against speedruns and the like, why not post a thread under your appropriate world "What other FCs/groups/players are playing xyz way? Want to combine forces or play together?"; the in-game shout spam would get annoying. Better yet, join one of the FCs or make your own and emphasive the type of players you do and dont want (I won't be offended lol).

Everyone still sitting on their ass waiting for DF to pair you with that rare but awesome group that thinks like you, then complains on forums when disappointed, needs to do more than wait/ask for SE patches.

I only have one complaint. Right now DF works by linking players from different servers together to play, and that's cool and all but it takes away the connection between players after the dungeon is finished. I've met some awful players who i do not wish to play with in team play ever again, but i've also met some great players who i would love to run dungeons with and i can't because they're from another server. Maybe SE should allow friending players from other servers so we can keep the players who we like on our friendlist, just for dungeon play. Now i dont know the technical aspect of this so call me stupid if this is not feasible idea due to server congestion or what not.

When I play my Paladin, I dont use the DF anymore, and my guilds tanks do the same. We just shout for approx. 20 seconds in chat, get a full group of people we can at least blacklist in worst case, and we dont carry bad FATE babies through the upper dungeons which dont have storyline requirements. I truly, truly dislike the fast-levelling incompetents this game has already.

yeah its hard to make a party in dungeon. almost all people are in FATE farming..

Finally got the Frostbite sword after beating the dungeon 3 times....FINALLY...lol. Hard work paid off.

The thing about FATES is that they're pretty much exactly like Dynamic Events in GW2. This leads me to believe it's working as intended, at least in some respect.
Chances are, the way it was designed, they expect a new player will run through, picking up all the quests as they do the main story. Doing this and having dungeons tied into the main story introduces players to partying and new mechanics in dungeons to prepare them for high level gameplay. After this, they reach max level and want to level other classes, or get to 30 and want to get a job, but have fewer quests to gain exp. that's where FATES come in. Like GW2 they become the only and most effective way to level, apart from levequests which are limited. Unfortunately this also means that it's the most effective way to level even before you run out of quests but that's just something we have to deal with. Because of the class system and freedom to level every class, the high exp gain from FATES is kind of necessary

Poor design is the problem. It's a combination of fates yielding too much XP for very little work and that dungeon's are instanced, generic and have a very "fast food" style feel to them. Putting a dungeon group together takes no effort, can be done from anywhere and most likely you will never see the players again since it's all cross server. I can't imagine how boring it must be to play this game without a quality guild or group of friends.

Personally I'd like to see a huge nerf to FATE exp if they compensate for it and introduce some form of non-costing leves.

These leves should only grant exp, be fillers for when you dont have side quests, story quests or class quests. Since this game is based around being able to have all classes on 1 character I dont see why we should get punished for only having one character. Limit the leves to a min and max level per zone, once you outlevel that zones leves you go to the next zone, do the regular side quests and unlock these leves.

I'm not saying they should remove the regular leves and the costs for them, just that they should introduce another way of leveling. I'm not fond of the FATEs one bit, it's a braindead zergfest, I'd prefer real quests. And no, wasting leve allowence is not an option to level low level classes.