Heals for Scholors need a buff

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Originally Posted by Marcusow86

4. As for Leeches, since we are a DoT kinda class, i suggest that leeches will first remove one detrimental effect and then subsequent after 5 sec removes another. And while removes a detrimental effect, target is heal for a set of amount of hp.

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this will make the ability too interesting and different than Esuna and this doesn't agree SE vision...
but I like it, it fits the name also and the fact it's higher level ability than Esuna, Leeches deserve to have it's own mechanic as well.

Why are you requesting buffs to scholars when your class clearly has better mana efficiency and higher potency when combined with the fairy? All you need is a proper AI to improve gameplay.

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

But whm excells at everything sch does expect for being mana efficient in long fights. Brd cures that , a hardmode pt will have a brd.

Whm can shield and place regens on people,

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SCH gives AOE 50% uptime 10% damage reduction, can provide shields to everyone to prevent burst damage, has a 2 min cooldown that reduces the bosses damage by 20% for 20-30 seconds, 50% uptime 30% spell haste, 50% uptime 30% skill haste, AOE MDEF buff, MUCH better MP regen, -15% str/dex/int/mnd down debuff, 15 seconds of blind every ~30 seconds,100% uptime AOE slow circle, an instant cast heal that heals for 20% of the targets HP, and -50% healing debuff. SCH reduces damage everyone takes, provides lots of shielding, debuffs mobs, and reduces the damage mobs do. Stoneskin is garbage and not AOE. They are nothing alike besides both being able to mainheal, WHM is not better than SCH in every way.

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Originally Posted by WhiteWindHD

SCH healing is fine. if you're having problems with your pet dying I think it may be player error.

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Lol so many tards without a clue. Have you done Aurum? There is no way to keep your pet alive as when you eat the fruit it does not clear the debuff from your pet. The debuff ticks for 200 with only 1 stack and like 600 with 3 I think, then the boss does an attack that if you have the debuff you get hit like a truck. This is a problem for SUM as well.

And I think SCH healing is fine, I actually think it is much more fun than WHM as you have to manage a pet as well. I have not had a problem solo healing anything except Aurum. And that was tough only because we had a SUM as well whose pet kept dying so he had to rely solely on his DoTs for damage so the fight dragged on for a long time, he was able to spot heal a bit while the fight was going on to help out when I started going OOM after like 10 minutes of this fight.

I've never had an issue as a Scholar healer. :3

Bad players whining the new op healer needs buffs. No one saw this coming. They won't be happy until whm is completely useless.

The problem is you, not the class.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

Bad players whining the new op healer needs buffs. No one saw this coming. They won't be happy until whm is completely useless.

The problem is you, not the class.

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Scholars will prevail! we are 103% sure about it!
You WHMs sicken me!

in my personal experience all this years in mmo i always created my main as a healer and a alt as a dps in this case i unlocked SMN/SCH at the same time 2 birds in 1 shot + better for Q in duty finder anyways SCH is fine remember yours heals are split into you and your PETS!! this is why sch heal potency is slightly less than WHM cause WHM dont have pets first learn how to manage your healing skill and MP and not trying to be a >DPS< in a group

They just need to make it so pet control is better and pet heals are off my GCD and i think they should make SCH have a high crt rate on heals. I had 2 SCH heal garuda hard mode and you get blasted by AoE's in that fight all day. When we had the 2 SCH's it was easier than 2 whms cause the shield soaked up so much dmg.

Ok now that have experience hard mode garuda and APR.Keep. I feel i understand problems of sch and how they should fix.

1.First off the fairy ai and control is broken and needs to be fixed.

2. They should reduce the recast time of eos aoe regen . Eos is currently does not compare to serene at all, partly due to the fairy brokeness affecting eos more then serene.
This way the sch has to choose between healing output(eos) or party buffs(serene)

3. Fairy dies too easily. Either improve the control/ai and let us control them while casting or perhaps give us the choice to place the fairy above us, on our shoulder or on above another pt member.

4.Sch severly lacks combos, we have no combo in our main heal physick. We have only 1 combo spell and that is a 60 second cd requires aetherflow and 20% chance combo.
Whm could also do with more combos for more interesting gameplay.

I think Succor should give x2 the shield it heals for making it a good AoE or if you cast succor x2 it will use the remain shield and convert that into hp.

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Originally Posted by Firon

I think Succor should give x2 the shield it heals for making it a good AoE or if you cast succor x2 it will use the remain shield and convert that into hp.

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The 2nd part would help alot when you have 2 sch since they penalize each other in many ways . But two whm can stack their regens and medica 2 .

I would love if you could stack the shield from Succor so you could prep for an AoE ahead of time with like two or three casts of Succor2. The mp cost is already high so I don't think this would be THAT OP. Maybe slightly higher MP cost would be needed but I would LOVE THIS. It would make it so WHMs can recover from an AoE (faster and more efficiently) but SCHs can prep for one (thus enhancing out "tactician" style of play). DO THIS!!!!!!!

Selene has the games only Haste spell. Faerie heals are powerful, especially with Rouse up. Crit shields are extremely powerful. Virtually unlimited MP. Tons of mitigation skills. DPS that can get in the same ballpark of a standard DPS, especially if you're micro-minded enough to switch Cleric Stance when applying dots. What else do you want?

SCH has way more potential than a WHM. A good SCH can put out respectable damage, keep a boss debuffed, keep your party Hasted, while keeping the group topped off just as well as a WHM. AOE healing can be trickier if you're caught unprepared for it, and keeping track of your pet/debuffs/Aetherflows can be overwhelming, but I personally find it exciting to play a healer class that can let you take such an active role in a fight and show real results for it.

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Originally Posted by Rainsford

Selene has the games only Haste spell. Faerie heals are powerful, especially with Rouse up. Crit shields are extremely powerful. Virtually unlimited MP. Tons of mitigation skills. DPS that can get in the same ballpark of a standard DPS, especially if you're micro-minded enough to switch Cleric Stance when applying dots. What else do you want?

SCH has way more potential than a WHM. A good SCH can put out respectable damage, keep a boss debuffed, keep your party Hasted, while keeping the group topped off just as well as a WHM. AOE healing can be trickier if you're caught unprepared for it, and keeping track of your pet/debuffs/Aetherflows can be overwhelming, but I personally find it exciting to play a healer class that can let you take such an active role in a fight and show real results for it.

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I want them to fix the broken pet and controls. Selene overwrites her own spells and gives the boss silence resist. Eos non embrace spells are practically unusable since she use whenever she can. When you make them embrace a target they reset commands. They die too easily as well.

2ndly the haste is not as strong as it reads. It shaves of .12sec of my heal so it must not be exactly 30%. Also Sch is lowest dps job by a large margain fyi. Someone parsed it as being 40% lower then whm
Sch is also not good at quickly aoeing adds like whm can with holy.

Maybe just me but I feel a good fix to pet ai, for ALL pets, would be something like gambits from FF12. A series of if>then commands that you can prioritize, but less slots than that game had so it isn't just like, autopilot, that would be too easy and thus a poor decision.

Succor's absorb component should be a different buff from adloquium, so that the two can stack. And a bit of a cd reduction/potency increase for whispering dawn.

edit- I think the spell haste/skill haste means 30% of your stat called casting speed, not 30% of the spell's base cast times. Totally different animal.

I'm just going to leave one note here: Take a look through this entire thread and other similar "buff scholar" threads (which the class doesn't need, neither does white mage (it just needs less rng reliance for mp upkeep on LONG fights) and "fixing" ai on the fairies would lead to the class undoubtedly being brokenly overpowered especially if able to command it whilst casting) every single post asking for buffs and fixes are from the same 5 or so people, you're a vocal minority, not a majority, ergo, learn to play issue, not a class issue.

I have been following the Scholar forums and threads for a while now. I havent said anything until I was higher level. Now at 42 couple things I would like to state.
I don't think they need a Buff so to say. Only part that needs some fixing is the pets and thier macros.

1) We DONT need to be able to tell our pet who to heal while we are in mid cast. That is just out right OP.
How ever we do have the ability if you hot bar the pets heal to tell them who to heal before you cast your own heal.
I do this all the time I tell pet to heal tank then I cast Adloquium on the tank..
What ends up happening is Succor goes off before Pets heal so he has a shield to stop health from going down then he gets the heal from the pet.

(tip) tell you pet to heal 1 target while you heal another is very Mp friendly and efficient dont depend on your pet healing the right person.

(2) Our Aoe healing is ok..it is not the best but it is ok. Fixing Pet Ui and able to control Whispering Dawn more would help this a lot. So when casted with Sucor this is a powerful AOE heal combo when raid is needed.
(tip 2) In a raid we complement White mages very well, if you are (smart) you know aoe is going to happen pre bubble then cast it again after.
(tip 3) If Aoe is going to happen pre bubble * then Damage happens cast Rouse, Fey Illumination, Then Whispering Dawn. ( Can someone say OP hots) Or even cast Fey Illumination before your pre-bubble Stronger Bubble.

(3) Yes we spam out basic heal alot..but it is all about knows good rotations...tank is getting low I always tell pet to heal ..Cast Adloquium, tell pet to heal again, cast cure if your tank is not full health from that he should be really close to it or he is standing in to much

(added) I would like to see whispering Dawns Range increase unless I am always placing my pet it is hard to make sure most of the group gets it even then on spread out hard to control it

(Tip) cast a second Adloquium at the end to give tank or dps a bubble to protect from next incoming damage

Summary. If pet macros and Ai work properly as in no more spamming all CD when off CD then scholars will be a great spot. I really think it will take more time before we can truly say if it needs a buff or nerf.
And really cant compare to White mage. Different class and way different play style.. Scholar I find is a more active (know the fight) class.

If you cant multi task or want a simple healing class Scholar is not for you. Spend time play with different cooldown rotations.
This class has a lot of theory behind it and will take time for people to figure it all out.

Final tip Control you pet..yes they may use their cd but if you active and can handle it key-bind Steady and use after each spell is used helps a decent amount for now

I am not the greatest healer and there is no number crunching in my post just off of what I have experience.

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Originally Posted by Delitia

I'm just going to leave one note here: Take a look through this entire thread and other similar "buff scholar" threads (which the class doesn't need, neither does white mage (it just needs less rng reliance for mp upkeep on LONG fights) and "fixing" ai on the fairies would lead to the class undoubtedly being brokenly overpowered especially if able to command it whilst casting) every single post asking for buffs and fixes are from the same 5 or so people, you're a vocal minority, not a majority, ergo, learn to play issue, not a class issue.

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Wud we still be op if we cud choose which spells the fairy should autocast or not. Like rift does (they have fairy heal pets too)
QUinceiy how can we do your point2 when eos waste all her spell. Stop looking at our spell list and theory crafting and actully do some hard mode fights to see how unreliable eos is for not embrace spell.

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

2ndly the haste is not as strong as it reads. It shaves of .12sec of my heal so it must not be exactly 30%. Also Sch is lowest dps job by a large margain fyi. Someone parsed it as being 40% lower then whm
Sch is also not good at quickly aoeing adds like whm can with holy.

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It gives you a 30% increase to your spell speed stat. It's about 110~ based off lvl 50 stats. It's not huge, but 8 players alternating with an extra 110~ spell/skill speed is nice.

Also, not to argue DPS on a healer, but I'm not sure where you're getting those numbers from (maybe it's Ruin spam v Stone spam?). With Cleric Stance up, my dots tick for 350~ (counting Shadow Flare). Energy Drain does around 250, and Ruin II around 120. You're not doing DPS level damage, but it's higher and more sustainable than a WHM.

Well after farming Ifrit hard about 30 times to get my book I was not once matched or out healed by a White Mage.

Most fights ended up with me sitting at roughly 130k healing done including bubbles, and around 70-80k healing done not including bubbles with most White Mages sitting at 30-50k healing done (One White Mage, I forget her name actually put up a respectable 77k healing done). These numbers were obtained using ffxiv-app and included healing done by Eos. I also only looked at kill attempts and reset the log between each pull. These numbers also don't reflect damage prevented with Eye for an Eye, Sacred Soil, Blind, Virus, etc.

For the record Eos puts out an incredible amount of healing, especially with Rouse, so FWIW when played right Scholars are pretty damn amazing.

Edit: I would just like to point out that this isn't meant to slam White Mages in any way - it's clear their ability to burst AoE heal completely trounces a Scholar. But the effectiveness of the pet and being able to Pre-shield the entire group (shields let you over-heal effectively AND reduce the amount of possible HP that a White Mage can heal) is being completely overlooked by the people screaming for buffs.

Yes we need better pet control - and I would like a bubble-less AoE heal, even if it was only 100 value, so I can spam while Succor shields are still on the raid but this is all QoL.

Yes, scholar healing is fine... bordering on OP with the ability to "snipe" heals from whm via shielding.

Whm might fill the burst heal niche.

Working as intended. Scholars higher sustained healing- whm burst healing, not sustainable.

I wouldn't actually be surprised if fairies' heals were nerfed.

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Originally Posted by Rainsford

It gives you a 30% increase to your spell speed stat. It's about 110~ based off lvl 50 stats. It's not huge, but 8 players alternating with an extra 110~ spell/skill speed is nice.

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-0.1 GCD on a 50% uptime is absolutely horrible compared to what Eos can do.

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

If you are going to compare sch+fairy heal then compare whm cure+regen

The fairy heals about every 4 to 5 seconds due to it responding a bit slow and the fact we cant order it to heall
while we are mid cast.

The fairy's heal does not heal directly proportionate to a heal from the sch with 300 potency. The fairy a heals a fair amount less then the sch

tested 1 heal My fairy heals for 414 my heal is 520

Regen ticks for 270 every xx second and be placed on multiple allies and it can crit too.

Would rather have regen then the pet heal lol. There is also medica regen. Which stacks with your regen .

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Well does the fairy stack efficiently with MND as you do? yea i thought not. so my guess is, the fairy it heal with 300 potency correctly. nuff said.

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Originally Posted by Sonata_rose

Well does the fairy stack efficiently with MND as you do? yea i thought not. so my guess is, the fairy it heal with 300 potency correctly. nuff said.

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no the fairy doesnt heal as much as me with 300 potency
my Aqua spell heals for 550 and its 300 potency
fairy heals 100 less

Regen ticks near enough to fairy heal. fairy takes 4-6 sec to heal due to input needed regen ticks every 3 ?

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Originally Posted by Waliel

-0.1 GCD on a 50% uptime is absolutely horrible compared to what Eos can do.

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I'm obviously talking about a situation where you don't need the heals. -.1 isn't huge, but if you have 2-3 BLM in the party, the extra DPS will become noticeable.

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

The 2nd part would help alot when you have 2 sch since they penalize each other in many ways . But two whm can stack their regens and medica 2 .

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THANK YOU!!! Someone other than myself that has to remind people SCH buffs don't stack... It's why I have been sticking to WHM. 2 WHM regen will stack... 2 SCH shields will not. Either fix that or prevent 2 WHM regen from stacking (as well as the medica regen also stacks) and the 2 classes would truly be equal imo. The faerie AI also should not be forgotten. For your info the aoe shield and the solo shield don't stack either..For solo SCH they replace each other, where as a solo whm will have their medica and regen stack.

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Originally Posted by Rainsford

SCH has way more potential than a WHM.

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Potential for what exactly? I'd take my WHM over a SCH anyday honestly. I would miss the sheer healing prowess of DS+PoM, Benediction, Medica II, Sleep for CCing adds, Holy for a Aoe Stun...WHM's have tons of potential, but I admit we may not have as many tools or methods of fully exploiting it. Still, for what we lack, we demolish SCH's in the areas we excel in my opinion. You cannot bring a tank from, 0 to 100 in an instant, not even if you spam your 20% move. You cannot stack your defensive bubbles, they don't work with % cure affinities that some tanks have (whereas a WHM will see a bigger return here, since it's a straight heal, and not a heal+shield). To top it all off, you have little control over a portion of your healing/support abilities, because they are tied to the fairies. A WHM has full control. I could go on and on. I'm glad people have a class they prefer, but all the WHM hate in this thread is laughable. Both classes are great healers, they're just different.

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Originally Posted by Arale

-snip- they don't work with % cure affinities that some tanks have (whereas a WHM will see a bigger return here, since it's a straight heal, and not a heal+shield). -snip-

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% to cures DO work with scholar. The shield is based on how much the heal hits for, and crit heals are doubled. So if they cure portion hits for 400, shield is 400. If an ability makes the cure hit for 600, the shield is 600. Same mechanic as WHM, just different methods.

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Originally Posted by Tandy

% to cures DO work with scholar. The shield is based on how much the heal hits for, and crit heals are doubled. So if they cure portion hits for 400, shield is 400. If an ability makes the cure hit for 600, the shield is 600. Same mechanic as WHM, just different methods.

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but what you're missing is that the WHM abilities all stack.. SCH's do not... and it a pinch it does matter

i just downloaded this ffxiv-app parser and eos did 50k healing without the aoe cd and the white mage 30k in ifrit hard, i alone did 110k (whm was dead like 15sec)

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Originally Posted by asyra

i just downloaded this ffxiv-app parser and eos did 50k healing without the aoe cd and the white mage 30k in ifrit hard, i alone did 110k (whm was dead like 15sec)

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i'm sure if the whm lasted the whm would have healed more than you... the regen effects stack on whm.. if the whm is smart enough to keep them both up

err yes 150k healing in 15 sec? :<

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Originally Posted by asyra

err yes 150k healing in 15 sec? :<

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you said s/he died in 15 sec... im not sure how long the hard mode is but im sure its alot longer than 15 sec. between medica 2, cure 3, regen, and benediction (if bene is needed) yes a whm can out do a sch... only issue is mana regen... without a bard the whm would last 5 min tops if they are good with mana control. 1.0 mana regen was never an issue... atleast not for me. hopefully yoshi changes mana regen for whms.

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Originally Posted by Valiant

Heal Parse stuff

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WHM will never outheal a SCH on overall healing. MP issues and the fact that shielding blocks direct heals contribute to this fact as much as other mechanics. The fairy not being affected by latency or MP issues for one..
sustained healing is powerful on parsers but does it really matter more than burst heals? No, it doesn't and I said that earlier in the thread already. It depends on the fight and if you can't get your tank to recover from a big hit fast and he ends up dying no amount of overall healing during a fight can save the day.

SCH and WHM are different for a reason and fill different roles and situations. Instead of trying to nerf one class or be jealous of one we should focus on how to improve our own without trying to focus too much on the other imo.

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Originally Posted by Rainsford

I'm obviously talking about a situation where you don't need the heals. -.1 isn't huge, but if you have 2-3 BLM in the party, the extra DPS will become noticeable.

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2% dps increase over the whole fight is noticeable? Assuming perfect upkeep of the buff. It's even less if you don't buff the melee and archers, who are usually half of your group.

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Originally Posted by Sonata_rose

Well does the fairy stack efficiently with MND as you do? yea i thought not. so my guess is, the fairy it heal with 300 potency correctly. nuff said.

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

no the fairy doesnt heal as much as me with 300 potency
my Aqua spell heals for 550 and its 300 potency
fairy heals 100 less

Regen ticks near enough to fairy heal. fairy takes 4-6 sec to heal due to input needed regen ticks every 3 ?

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The correct answer to this one is that the fairy doesn't have the 30% increased healing from Main and Mend, but scales perfectly with your stats otherwise. Fairy isn't affected by Cleric Stance either.

The fairy doesn't take 4-6 seconds to cast a heal, it will keep spam healing every 3 seconds when people are actually hurt and when it doesn't have to spend time following you around.

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Heal parser

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Healing meters are worthless; they're so easy to pad. What will all that regen overhealing do, other than increasing your enmity and upping your meter numbers?

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Originally Posted by Valiant

you said s/he died in 15 sec... im not sure how long the hard mode is but im sure its alot longer than 15 sec.

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WHM was dead for 15 seconds, not in 15 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Scerick

Well after farming Ifrit hard about 30 times to get my book I was not once matched or out healed by a White Mage.

Most fights ended up with me sitting at roughly 130k healing done including bubbles, and around 70-80k healing done not including bubbles with most White Mages sitting at 30-50k healing done (One White Mage, I forget her name actually put up a respectable 77k healing done). These numbers were obtained using ffxiv-app and included healing done by Eos.

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I'd point out that the nature of a pro-active healer is always going to make them have inflated numbers over a reactive healer. You're "sniping" heals before they ever show up for the WHM to heal, so you'll almost always come out ahead.

Also, you'll never give a second thought to firing off an Embrace w/ your Fairy. A WHM will hold his heals to make sure he's not over-healing.

The end result isn't quite as reflective of the power of the healers as you might think.

At this moment in time it's more about people being really bad at healing and not about one class being better than the other. I have done around 30 Ifrit HM's and I'm always doing 75-80% of total healing done.