Are they getting rid of the job system?

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Originally Posted by ClausL

well... again, you'll just have to look around.

I'm not trying to prove to you that a lot of people agree with me (but they do), I'm just saying that the class to job progression is useless and poorly designed.

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But, since you're the one making the declaration, isn't the burden of proof on you?

I mean, it's not like I'm lazy or anything. I've been to a lot of sites, and I do mean a LOT, and i haven't seen evidence of what you're declaring at all. I've read just about any and every info the devs have been drip-feeding us, and have yet to see proof of this as well. I've read countless posts from people complaining about this and that with the game, and still no proof about the job/armory system being universally reviled.

I mean, if you're going to make a claim like that, you should be able to back it up, or else it's about as factual as me saying I'm immortal, with the proof being simply that I haven't died yet.

lol @ hiding behind needing to "PM" links.

If you have a legit source, lets see it, if not, please gtfo. Reddit etc are all public forums, so there's no need to hide links in a PM.

Don't try to equate your opinion to something grandeur. If your friends are really confused by the simple system, then they don't need to be playing this game. It's pretty straightforward.

Sick of you shatting up the forums with your dumb whiney topics that have already been beaten to death.

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Originally Posted by Vilhem

lol @ hiding behind needing to "PM" links.

If you have a legit source, lets see it, if not, please gtfo. Reddit etc are all public forums, so there's no need to hide links in a PM.

Don't try to equate your opinion to something grandeur. If your friends are really confused by the simple system, then they don't need to be playing this game. It's pretty straightforward.

Sick of you shatting up the forums with your dumb whiney topics that have already been beaten to death.

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by the twelve i can't believe I'm typing this i argee with Vil (lol jk) Clausl you my friend need a new hobby, Forum trolling, its not fun for anyone. And by the way, if your going to troll something like this look up the facts first before wasting these good peoples time with nonsense that has very little backing and support.

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Originally Posted by Vilhem

lol @ hiding behind needing to "PM" links.

If you have a legit source, lets see it, if not, please gtfo. Reddit etc are all public forums, so there's no need to hide links in a PM.

Don't try to equate your opinion to something grandeur. If your friends are really confused by the simple system, then they don't need to be playing this game. It's pretty straightforward.

Sick of you shatting up the forums with your dumb whiney topics that have already been beaten to death.

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Dang! Vicious, much? lol

While I'm not a fan of some of the negativity in this thread, I will attempt to ignore it and put down my opinion as requested. I by no means feel that the current structures for class/job are convoluted or confusing. I like many aspects of it, in fact. But the things I like are pretty much tied to two points, I like that I can change at whim (which I feel is important for balance and personal enjoyment with a game that is using role archetypes, tanks, healers, dps, and the like). And I like that I can use cross-class abilities.

For me, though (and only me) I would rather the game develop a job/class system that forced players to make tough choices. I don't mean permanent tough choices, I just mean if a job has 50 abilities I should have to choose like, 6-10 of them to use at any given time. The numbers I just used are completely arbitrary, but the point is if your class has 50 outstanding abilities it would be tough to narrow it down to 10, and if its tough you'll see build variety. Even if someone comes along and does a bunch of math that says X is better than anything else, you'll still have people willing to experiment and expand and demonstrate a role or a use for a build that others didn't think of. Again, I don't think you should have to choose 10 and be stuck with them, but for any given situation whether that was one battle, or one dungeon or whatever the case was, you should need to bring the class (or job, as it were) into a more focused state through a series of difficult choices. I find that sort of thing very fun and interesting, especially as a game develops and changes. Even as a class, I don't really feel like my decisions about which abilities to equip are all that difficult. I'd like to show examples that aren't as generic, but I fear that would make people believe I'm telling them to make a copy of an existing system, and I'm not. I would also be just as happy with a classless system, such as FFVII/FFVIII/FFX(later in the game), FFXII(non-international version).

Really though, if there were a series of other character customizing features outside of the class/job system that made me make equally difficult decisions, that would also satiate me. I like to have the potential to be different and while designing customization parts I like to shake my fist at the heavens and curse the devs for making such a cruel decision exist. (Actually, what's wrong with me? I'm a masochist. Maybe.) I don't have to be a unique snowflake, but in a party that has all DRGs, I'd rather not be exactly the same as everyone around me sans gear.

And not to derail the thread too much, but this is also somewhat in-line with another game feature that weighs heavily on me, and that's a heavy emphasis on gear/stats. Such as gear-check content, your either strong enough to win and need a little skill, or your not strong enough to win and even with a tremendous amount of skill/teamwork you'll still lose (or not even be allowed to try). I would prefer less focus on gear and the individual and have more focus on cooperative tactics and play. Skillchains from FFXI were in the right direction for what I'm talking about, but they were sadly very basic and almost never worth their time other than those SCs you could make on a whim, of course. I think they want to do this with the limit break system, but to me that's still just inidividuals all doing their own thing (granted, the best way they know how, and for the team) to build a guage which releases a single attack. I would want consecutive, combined, and controlled actions between players yielding much bigger results than could you could ever get alone. (maybe that would help make the epeen contests subside alittle in the dps field). I see images in my head of White Mages and Paladin's combining their efforts into a dual tech that erected a barrier around a small area where the party could shelter themselves during large devestating attacks, or melee DPS doing what I can only call combos. A monk stomps the ground thereby breaking it which staggers the enemy, so that a Warrior can take advantage of his lack of balance and brutally bash the mob into the air with his Axe, while a Black Mage emblazons a Dragoon's Spear that is used during a jump to peirce through and quickly shuttle the mob back to the ground with eloquent and explosive vigor.

Is it going to happen? No. I desperately would love to see things like this, but even without these things ever happening I will still enjoy a huge quantity of the game, if not every bit of it. And that's enough. I'm sorry you have such strong negative feelings for so many aspects of the game, but their not innately bad game elements. Clearly though, they are not your cup of tea.

Sorry for the wall of text, I talk way too much. ^.^b

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Originally Posted by Forgo

by the twelve i can't believe I'm typing this i argee with Vil (lol jk) Clausl you my friend need a new hobby, Forum trolling, its not fun for anyone. And by the way, if your going to troll something like this look up the facts first before wasting these good peoples time with nonsense that has very little backing and support.

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Who are you again? >_>;

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Originally Posted by SkyeWindbinder

Dang! Vicious, much? lol

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Only to forum trolls hon <3 and this one is very much a troll.

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Originally Posted by Vilhem

only when people insult muh precious FFXIV and yoshi-P <3

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Fixed it for you.

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Originally Posted by ClausL

Fixed it for you.

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Nah, actually I don't fanboi over them like you accuse (see wat u did thar?). I'm very much a person that likes debate as long as they're intelligent, and not whiny, which is ALL you're doing in the topics you've been posting. You won't even go read the past threads, you just want to sit here and whine about how shitty a system is that the majority APPROVE of.

Your first mistake was trying to shit up Vergil's thread; take the hint from there and stop your constant whining.

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Originally Posted by ClausL

well, MOST people never liked XIV in its entirity, at least based on the active subscriptions/server populations before 1.23 was taken down... I think that much should be telling that the armor/job system wasn't loved, as it's a big part of the game.

if you want specific examples that most people don't like it, look at any other XIV related forum for proof. You'll find dozens upon dozens of negative posts regarding the system.

you just won't find much criticism for FFXIV on the official forums because it will get greeted with similar responses that are ITT; gtfo, troll troll troll, dont feed the troll, it was perfect, fanboy comments.

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You can definitely take it from me, ClausL, People didn't like XIV for other reasons. One huge reason would be that it was on an obsolete game engine. It was on XI's engine. It didn't run on 80% of people's computers (smoothly). Etc etc. People that were playing around 1.23 were people that were there at the beginning. Because you could only buy the game on like ebay and amazon after it failed. It was supported by people that didn't leave. That stuck it out for the future of the game. Supported by people that knew it would get better because Square was on top of fixing it. Most of the people that complained about the armoury system were the people that also complained about no content and all of the things XIV failed to present at the very beginning, and quit after about a month and didn't come back.

You won't find much criticism for XIV on the official forums because the people that were giving it problems have left. And some are unfortunately complaining about certain tests too.

While I'm at it, Fanboy comments? I'm sorry, but this term is overused. If you're not a fan, why are you here?

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Originally Posted by Rex

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While I'm at it, Fanboy comments? I'm sorry, but this term is overused. If you're not a fan, why are you here?

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Haters got to hate...trolls got to troll.

Problem Solved.



Added to Ignore List..

Good Job You are the first! So you beated even Rokien and Gath! At least they were funny :/

I find the 1.0 system (it isn't impossible 2.0's changed slightly) rather imperfect begging for asymmetry and suffocation from freedom in any natural equilibrium while adding processes and variables too many for their return value.

Of course these are all imo, and beyond small tweaks you are 99.99999% likely to have no change to the system into 2.0. dealwithit.jpg XD

Its obvious this system can work, as it has. But I would be a liar to say I like it over other proposed job options like a FFT system- though it still offers choices unusual to the MMORPG realm compared to other popular games like WoW/GWs and so forth (where each character is stuck into a type and its derivative builds). Even in imperfection I like it over most other choices.

From what we know, class only abilities, class type only abilities, job only abilities, wands for WHM (tremor), staves for BLM (relic) probably other things I can't remember Yoshida is pushing to reduce the limitations of development on this particular system- the system will look better, but I cannot deny that feeling I get where it's packed with lots of duct tape lol.



So.. No they arent getting rid of it, yes I dont think its the best, it will look a little better (my guess from changes I've seen near the end of 1.0 and as well as announced things like class only abilities- carby != for summoner at least by official and unofficial wording and definitions if such wording was chosen appropriately (some class abilities dont have to go to jobs)).

I have seen nothing to indicate that ClausL is doing anything other than trying to incite negativity in people (trolling). When he was given a sufficient answer, he chose to ignore it and continued to target the posts that were the most toxic (shame on all of you).

If you have any decency, people, please stop replying to his threads, and remember to follow forum guidelines, which he can report you for.

This reminds me very much of a certain series of posts that ended up being the same person, trying to troll people for fun. ClausL, if you're not in fact a troll, I appeal to your obvious intelligence and realize that you're not helping your situation.

However, I think you most definately are trolling.

actually Carbuncle is an Arcanist summon, not a Summoner summon

which also supports my opinion:what's the point?

it's obvious that arcanist won't be able to branch off into anything BESIDES summoner, so why even separate them? It's just needlessly complicated

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Originally Posted by ClausL

actually Carbuncle is an Arcanist summon, not a Summoner summon

which also supports my opinion:what's the point?

it's obvious that arcanist won't be able to branch off into anything BESIDES summoner, so why even separate them? It's just needlessly complicated

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But... How do you know?

How do you know Arcanist won't be a requirement for Blue Mage or Red Mage down the line? I'd love to know where you're getting your sources, as well as your idea that your opinion = fact.

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Originally Posted by ClausL

actually Carbuncle is an Arcanist summon, not a Summoner summon

which always supports my opinion:what's the point?

it's obvious that arcanist won't be able to branch off into anything BESIDES summoner, so why even separate them? It's just needlessly complicated

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That is what I said :P

Arcanist summon for Arcanist but not for Summoner.


Actually Arcanist could branch off into other things, he does have a large amount of dot spells and mechanics to revolve around them (so said in previous public announcements). Also there is nothing to say that carbuncle cant be used in other classes at the moment, perhaps a THM with a weak carby.. This is unlikely though.

The reason they likely separated summoner and carby if they worded correctly (because it is literal sense in their wording "instead of" meaning replacement of, meaning doesn't have) is because carbuncle adds mechanics and dynamics they want differently in summoner but they don't want to waste the experience of Arcanist as a class.

It would then be true this is an example of the system being forced to be asymmetric for best game play value. Yes.. but reworking the whole system could turn out to be worse and take many months to prepare properly.. You just are not going to see a new system come into place unless Yoshida goes into berserk mode. The cost and risk would be great, while in this system that isn't perfect it does work (just settle with being inconsistent and sometimes adding extra steps like adding classes just because you want to make the job, even though no one will use that class by itself).

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Originally Posted by Momita

Problem Solved.



Added to Ignore List..

Good Job You are the first! So you beated even Rokien and Gath! At least they were funny :/

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First! Congrats! I think I'm up to 60 or 70 now.

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Originally Posted by SkyeWindbinder

But... How do you know?

How do you know Arcanist won't be a requirement for Blue Mage or Red Mage down the line? I'd love to know where you're getting your sources, as well as your idea that your opinion = fact.

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you think a Carbuncle summoner is going to progress into Blue Mage or Red Mage?

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Originally Posted by ClausL

you think a Carbuncle summoner is going to progress into Blue Mage or Red Mage?

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Why not? Pugilist was a sub-class requirement for black mage. lol

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Originally Posted by SkyeWindbinder

Why not? Pugilist was a sub-class requirement for black mage. lol

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she has a point...

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Originally Posted by ClausL

you think a Carbuncle summoner is going to progress into Blue Mage or Red Mage?

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Without much thought here is an example.. Time Mage.

When applying DoT spells you can cast accelerate on the enemy to make the DoT's applied tick faster and beneficial buffs fall off faster. Arcanist does follow route of a kind of elementless magic, or at least from what I "get" from its title.

Perhaps Arcanist gets a spell that causes his next one to spread like a disease (spreading arcane magic) - use this with your haste spell. Casting stop on an ally stops all negative DoT's all damage stopped is added as mana..

I'm sure you could make a Arcanist -> Time Mage work (also books as a weapon fits nicely).

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Originally Posted by ClausL

you think a Carbuncle summoner is going to progress into Blue Mage or Red Mage?

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Hmm, maybe not one of those two but who knows? Blue Mage does have a weird attachment to what Arcanist is the first pet/monster class and Blue Mages are know for the use of monster abilities. Red Mages where known cripplers and light buffers in XI which attached to the said link of Archanist being a DoT inflicter. I'd also add that Beastmaster would also be a fair job attachment to the class as it's well know as a pet/monster class.

As for your disdain of the armory and job system; would you explain why you dislike it so without throwing your negativity into it. I'd love to know why you hate the system when clearly everyone here doesn't. Especially when you said almost everyone hates the system. If you are unable to explain intelligibly without bashing, you sir ClausL will have become maybe the greatest troll in our FFXIV forums.

Good Day sir.

How can you DISlike the job system? Its one of the unique experience that you can find only in FFXIV, I love it and its really useful and comftable

I'm talking about the class -> job progression, not the ability to switch between classes etc, to be clear

they should combine classes and jobs into one thing

I'll say it again. Jobs do not have the versatility that classes do but are alot more specified. Example. Try solo something kinda hard with BLM and you go bye bye. Try solo something with THM and you should get victory fanfare. That is how they are set up.

Jobs are there for party play. Classes if you don't want to play with people :D

System worked well in 1.x. Will be interesting to see it with the job changes coming in 2.0!

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Originally Posted by Dhalmel

I think this is Rokien's replacement, soon enough people will just ignore it's threads and posts and BL it.

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Lol.. Rokien..

I got banned before he did and I wasn't even trolling :D

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Originally Posted by ClausL

I'm talking about the class -> job progression, not the ability to switch between classes etc, to be clear

they should combine classes and jobs into one thing

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ugh...ok ok...classes are the base where most skills come from, Jobs are add on's to classes adding stat boost and Job based Skills...In the end Jobs and classes are the same thing, so what the hell is the problem? Is it the Job quest to get Skills? Must all skills be handed to you for you to be happy? Is it wrong for you have to quest them to get them?

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Originally Posted by ClausL

I'm talking about the class -> job progression, not the ability to switch between classes etc, to be clear

they should combine classes and jobs into one thing

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I think you're wrong.

Having both separate allows for the player to be able to customixe their character more, and prevents job acquisition from being a 5 minute achievement.

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Originally Posted by Vilhem

lol @ hiding behind needing to "PM" links.

If you have a legit source, lets see it, if not, please gtfo. Reddit etc are all public forums, so there's no need to hide links in a PM.

Don't try to equate your opinion to something grandeur. If your friends are really confused by the simple system, then they don't need to be playing this game. It's pretty straightforward.

Sick of you shatting up the forums with your dumb whiney topics that have already been beaten to death.

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https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/1929985792/h9A866AC2/

NUFF SAID....

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Originally Posted by ClausL

@Nix & Vilhelm, you posted "ITS NOT GETTING CHANGED"(which is honestly a big assumption by you)

what I WANTED to know was what are your personal opinions on it? Like it, don't like it? think it's good? think it will confuse people etc.?

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I think you're looking for someone to talk hahahaha, whats the difference if I like it, do you like it? that's more important, if you don't, well don't play it, if you do well that's awesome, go play it....

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Originally Posted by ClausL

Anyone know if they're getting rid of the job system for ARR?

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read the roadmap

/pulls hand out of the bag and troll chow and looks up at everyone with large sparkling eyes
how could you not want to feed something so hideously annoying?

Not even beating a dead horse at this point, he's getting all necrophiliac with it.


All your concerns can be answered with No.