Additional Jobs for the future, a graphic, need help.

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Originally Posted by Kirito

Exactly thats why I don't think they'll have duo class. If they do add advanced classes they must add a basic class or you'll instantly have it max level the moment you get job crystal so it would be pretty cheap. The second class being a part of the classes doesn't matter so much. Since both ninja and samurai are of the east, I would assume one would be the sub class of the other since they can wield most of each others weapons...

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Well Samurai is quite different from Ninja, so it wouldn't make sense. Nin feels like dex class; Sam like str. Nin use Katana, and Sam use Great Katanas.

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Originally Posted by Warlock

I hope the roots of this comment are not from FFXI's Warrior-equips-all

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nope, its coming from them needed a better design if they were to branch classes out. all we know at this point is your weapon is your class/job, but they do need to go back to switching classes(like FFXI) as a whole and leave the weapon as tools with there own weapon skills.

Weren't Samurai and Ninja mortal enemies? Samurai protect their lord while Ninja assassinate lords? Doesn't make much sense they would be together like that.

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Originally Posted by Lucke

Weren't Samurai and Ninja mortal enemies? Samurai protect their lord while Ninja assassinate lords? Doesn't make much sense they would be together like that.

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But the underlying martial art is the same.

What second job from Parivir?

http://www.aikidolebouscat.fr/Nagina...Naginata05.jpg

I think the Naginata is not getting enough love.
Although this would just be a "Naginata Samurai" which would be way too close to Samurai and the polearm jobs. That's a tough nut right there. >_<

Edit: @Lucke There were many Ninja's on the battlefield as well, since many Ninjas were also Samurais. If i remember everything correctly

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Originally Posted by Lucke

Weren't Samurai and Ninja mortal enemies? Samurai protect their lord while Ninja assassinate lords? Doesn't make much sense they would be together like that.

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Kind of makes sense that they could take one of two paths though after initial training. Like Paladin or Dark Knight

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Originally Posted by Lucke

Weren't Samurai and Ninja mortal enemies? Samurai protect their lord while Ninja assassinate lords? Doesn't make much sense they would be together like that.

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All great japanese empires have both samurai and ninja working under the shogun. Samurai goes in the front lines while the ninja act like assasins... I think in terms of respect it is shogun > samurai > ninja...

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

FFV I believe, let me check ... Here it is

If you consider Quistis (FFVII) a Blue Mage, she used whips as well, but I prefer BLU with Scimitars ala. FFV and FFXI.

Also, consider that Jobs can have different weapons than their base Class as proven by the Relic Weapons (they auto-equip the required Job soul). This opens up quite a few possibilities for future growth

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Great thinking. However, I think that making a Tamer class that would them turn into BLU/BST would make a lot of sense. Both depend on the power of beasts, so I think that a fusion of the two could work out. (I think your decision for Dancer was great, though.)

When I was thinking about my last post, I did consider switching Samurai to Lancer's job, but I decided that, in or for it to truly be a Samurai, it needed a Katana. So, I chose Templar as the second job, with similar reasoning to your last statement. Templar would use a lance with one hand while also using a Shield.

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Originally Posted by Bowen

Great thinking. However, I think that making a Tamer class that would them turn into BLU/BST would make a lot of sense. Both depend on the power of beasts, so I think that a fusion of the two could work out. (I think your decision for Dancer was great, though.)

When I was thinking about my last post, I did consider switching Samurai to Lancer's job, but I decided that, in or for it to truly be a Samurai, it needed a Katana. So, I chose Templar as the second job, with similar reasoning to your last statement. Templar would use a lance with one hand while also using a Shield.

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I was on that train of thought with that as well. (the TMR >> BST<->BLU). My example was focused more along the lines of weapon progress, but as far as core concept, it does make more sense that Blue Mage has Tamer as it's root class rather than Gladiator. (this sort of thinking is what makes me wish that jobs had a separate level from classes)

It would also be nice if there was more of a separation between 'Spears' and 'Lances' (esp. Heavy Lances) eg. Light lances for Lancer, Heavy Lances for Dragoon, and Spears for Templar

I do like the Templar job from FFTA. It's a nice combination between GLD and LNC, but priority needs to go to Samurai in the release order. (Maybe SAM from MRD??)

Nice Job Doc Mog! Love the idea!

Hmm, I would alter Parivir a little bit. Since it was a job in Final Fantasy lore, it shouldn't be a class. Class should be something unique to ARR/XIV and not FF as a series.

Maybe something like Ronin (class) then Samurai and Parivir as jobs. It would make a good quest. Maybe you wander around as a Ronin, then you do a quest that gets you a lord to serve under (maybe the GC leaders) making you a full SAM. I'm not really sure of Parivir lore.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

I was on that train of thought with that as well. (the TMR >> BST<->BLU). My example was focused more along the lines of weapon progress, but as far as core concept, it does make more sense that Blue Mage has Tamer as it's root class rather than Gladiator. (this sort of thinking is what makes me wish that jobs had a separate level from classes)

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Yeah, I've come to wish that as well. I guess leveling with jobs would Moreno be with gaining their skills/equipment then actually leveling. Then again, if you're starting a class from the beginning, getting a Job unlocked and its respective skills does, indeed, flow nicely together in my opinion. I did this with THM. I would mostly solo with it, but when I felt daring I would switch to BLM to quickly finish off mobs. The problem is that, if you have a class at max already, you won't be able to experience this.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

It would also be nice if there was more of a separation between 'Spears' and 'Lances' (esp. Heavy Lances) eg. Light lances for Lancer, Heavy Lances for Dragoon, and Spears for Templar

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I can agree. The main issue I was thinking when choosing whether or not Templar would be appropriate is the way they would handle their spears/Lances. But, you gave me a bit of a thought with your idea. If we applied this same logic to other classes/jobs, then we can determine what the second Jobs of a class would use. For example: Let's say that CNJ's second job was Green Mage, which is basically an elementalist. Since CNJ's second weapon type is a Wand, and WHM uses Staves, then Green Mage would use Wands.

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

I do like the Templar job from FFTA. It's a nice combination between GLD and LNC, but priority needs to go to Samurai in the release order. (Maybe SAM from MRD??)

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Originally Posted by Lucke

Maybe something like Ronin (class) then Samurai and Parivir as jobs.

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Indeed. SAM is an Iconic FF Job, and it should be given priority over Templar. However, I think it would be more important, and better overall, if they take their time when it comes to SAM. I'd hate to see such a Job get screwed over by being stuck with a Lance as a weapon, when it could of been given a Katana. Also, I like your idea Lucke, but I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the name Ronin. I'll continue to look for other names that would fit.

Most of rev. 4 makes sense to me. Some ideas:
Thaumaturge
-Black Mage
-Time Mage or Oracle/Mystic

Swordmaster (Katana class)
-Samurai
-Paravir/Ronin

Scholar
-Geomancer
-Arithmetician

Performer?
-Dancer
-Mime

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Originally Posted by KaMuiSouZou

Swordmaster (Katana class)

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Right there is why that class name would never work.

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Originally Posted by Klefth

False. Any and all issues regarding one job being too overpowered or too weak with a weapon, and I mean one that job was supposed to use (not talking daggers on BLM here) could have and was tweaked through that job's skill levels with said weapon, so it didn't necessarily have to affect any other jobs at all.

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While creating an extensive waste of resources. Pre-Abyssea, there was no point to having warriors use anything other than their A+ weapon. Same thing with Samurai and Ninja.

As far as intended weapons, Red Mages were asking for Sword skill to be raised since 2006 and got nothing but a toggle job ability for their trouble, so it's not like they were scrambling to fix job problems.

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Originally Posted by indira

nope, its coming from them needed a better design if they were to branch classes out. all we know at this point is your weapon is your class/job, but they do need to go back to switching classes(like FFXI) as a whole and leave the weapon as tools with there own weapon skills.

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Not really. The armoury system needs refinements rather than a complete replacement. It has room for growth, but within the confines of the weapons per class. Which is fine because it can give us a good number of resulting jobs while keeping things on a leash and preventing stupidity like PLD with a staff taking over how endgame PLDs play.

If we were to go on the classes that currently exist, we'd have a total of 14 jobs if we decided to go by the "2 jobs per class" rule. That's without fan favorites like arcanist, fencer, flayer and musketeer.

I would swap Dark Knight with Templar - seems to fit more, in terms of weapons and 1.0 job abilities.. Other option would be to keep Dark Knight on the Gladiator slot and remove templar & parvir - add SAM to LNC (since samurai's are also known to use polearms).

This doesn't mean that SAM wouldn't get a GK, but afterall the whole job system is based on the weapon you are weilding. A base class is simply learning how to master that particular weapon (generally speaking). Advanced jobs stem from them as they have excelled in mastering the weapon and have started to tap into the "magic" ability sort of stuff (an ability of an advanced job as an example.)

To give GLD a 2 handed alternative seems a little backwards in my opinion as they have spent their career using a sword & shield, then all of a sudden they know how to use a scythe?

Scholar I think should also stem from Arcanist as Scholars use education / knowledge as their means of using magic (similar to Arcanist). In saying that I think BST should come from MRD, as both use a form of axe (although I would like a zerker because I am really hoping for a great sword job at some point).

Food for thought at least..

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Originally Posted by Duelle

While creating an extensive waste of resources. Pre-Abyssea, there was no point to having warriors use anything other than their A+ weapon. Same thing with Samurai and Ninja.

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Apollyon, Jailer of Temperance, merit parties (a good SAM could outparse a DRG with a spear on Lolibries), and NINs with Earth Staff for the reduced physical damage. There might have been other instances in which another weapon would've been useful too, due to the different types of damage or certain stat boosts. Oh yeah, Fire/Vulcan's Staff on Ranger was pretty good in some cases, too.

How was that system a waste of resources btw? I mean, considering it was rather easy to manage and tweak.

Okee so, I decided 3 jobs for all disciples of war and 2 for all disciples of magic. It kinda turned out better that way because it got difficult to figure out 3 for all.

Disciples of War

I. Gladiator
a. Paladin - TANK/HEALER
b. Soldier** - MELEE
c. Blue Mage** - MELEE/MAGE
II. Marauder
a. Warrior - TANK/MELEE
b. Beast Master** - MELEE/PET
c. Viking** - MELEE/CROWD CONTROL
III. Pugilist
a. Monk - MELEE
b. Puppet Master** - MELEE/PET
c. Dancer** - MELEE/HEALER/SUPPORT
IV. Lancer
a. Dragoon - MELEE/ASSASSIN
b. Dark Knight** - MELEE/MAGE
c. Samurai** - MELEE
V. Archer
a. Bard - RANGED/SUPPORT
b. Ranger** - RANGED
c. Hunter** - RANGED/PET/CROWD CONTROL
VI. Musketeer*
a. Gambler** - RANGED/MAGE
b. Machinist** - RANGED/CROWD CONTROL/PET
c. Gunner - RANGED
VII. Scout**
a. Red Mage** - MELEE/MAGE
b. Thief** - MELEE/ASSASSIN/CROWD CONTROL
c. Ninja** - MELEE/ASSASSIN/RANGED

Disciples of Magic
VIII. Conjurer
a. White Mage - HEALER/SUPPORT
b. Geomancer** - MAGE/SUPPORT/CROWD CONTROL
IX. Thaumaturge
a. Black Mage - MAGE/CROWD CONTROL
b. Necromancer** - MAGE/PET/HEALER/
X. Arcanist*
a. Summoner* - MAGE/PET
b. Scholar** - MAGE/HEALER
XI. Mystic**
a. Time Mage** - SUPPORT/MAGE/CROWD CONTROL
b. Arithmetician** HEALER/SUPPORT/????

Onion Knight - A gift for those who master all classes and jobs.

ROLES

Assassin – These jobs are made to destroy weak single targets in a very fast manner and leave the fight before being caught.
Ranged – These jobs are backline jobs that deal ranged damage they are very squishy but deal very good damage.
Melee – These jobs are frontline jobs that deal physical damage they usually have enough sustain to last in the front lines.
Mage – These jobs specialize in dealing magic damage.
Tank – These jobs are frontline jobs made to take damage for the entire party.
Healer – These jobs are jobs made to sustain the life of all party members especially the tank.
Support – These are jobs that have abilities that enhance party members’ stats and abilities.
Crowd Control – These are jobs that have abilities that enfeeble and prevent enemy abilities.
Pet – These are jobs that have a pet that assists in any type of role.

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Originally Posted by AceofRains

A large list of awesome ideas

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I like these!

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Originally Posted by Kirito

All great japanese empires have both samurai and ninja working under the shogun. Samurai goes in the front lines while the ninja act like assasins... I think in terms of respect it is shogun > samurai > ninja...

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samurai were military & militia, ninjas were were like james bond.

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Not really. The armoury system needs refinements rather than a complete replacement. It has room for growth, but within the confines of the weapons per class. Which is fine because it can give us a good number of resulting jobs while keeping things on a leash and preventing stupidity like PLD with a staff taking over how endgame PLDs play.

If we were to go on the classes that currently exist, we'd have a total of 14 jobs if we decided to go by the "2 jobs per class" rule. That's without fan favorites like arcanist, fencer, flayer and musketeer.

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well any refinements is a new design. the thing that will forever exist if your have more then one way to play you will always be stuck playing in one role for that job which ever people think is better no matter what. it the my way or its wrong thinking, or if the youtube video did it thats the only way. i cant think of one mmo where you can actually pick what you want to play in a group.

shepherd (+melee) = beastmaster.

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Originally Posted by LlenCoram

I like these!

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I got nuthin but awesome ideas thank you :3

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Originally Posted by Altena

I would swap Dark Knight with Templar - seems to fit more, in terms of weapons and 1.0 job abilities.. Other option would be to keep Dark Knight on the Gladiator slot and remove templar & parvir - add SAM to LNC (since samurai's are also known to use polearms).

This doesn't mean that SAM wouldn't get a GK, but afterall the whole job system is based on the weapon you are weilding. A base class is simply learning how to master that particular weapon (generally speaking). Advanced jobs stem from them as they have excelled in mastering the weapon and have started to tap into the "magic" ability sort of stuff (an ability of an advanced job as an example.)

To give GLD a 2 handed alternative seems a little backwards in my opinion as they have spent their career using a sword & shield, then all of a sudden they know how to use a scythe?

Scholar I think should also stem from Arcanist as Scholars use education / knowledge as their means of using magic (similar to Arcanist). In saying that I think BST should come from MRD, as both use a form of axe (although I would like a zerker because I am really hoping for a great sword job at some point).

Food for thought at least..

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http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Knight

Nobody is suggesting Dark Knight should weild a Scythe, Dark Knights were weilding 1 handed swords long before XI came out. Though i admit Doc Mog should change the Dark Knight picture connected to Gladiator since its no longer connected to Marauder lol.

I really like the rev 4. :) Good work!

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Originally Posted by panzertroll

shepherd (+melee) = beastmaster.

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Personally I was hoping Shepherd could be a 4th DOL class, to fill the niche of Turf-Based animal parts.

Other games had skinning jobs, for example.

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Originally Posted by indira

it the my way or its wrong thinking, or if the youtube video did it thats the only way.

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This is the way it has been and always will be. FFXI had its trends, WoW has its trends, CoH had its trends, TOR has its trends, and XIV will have its trends. It's human nature. You can't fight it, but you can take it into account when designing things. Even then you're not guaranteed 100% success, as proven by WoW's new talent system with Mists of Pandaria.

Had an idea for a second job for Parivir, maybe Ronin. If Samurai focuses more on "heavy" armor a Ronin would be a little faster but with lightarmor.

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Originally Posted by Duuude007

Personally I was hoping Shepherd could be a 4th DOL class, to fill the niche of Turf-Based animal parts.

Other games had skinning jobs, for example.

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What do you think of:

Job-Shepard-DoL (yes, DoL)

Class-Beastmaster-DoW

A DoL into a DoW would be awesome imo.

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Originally Posted by Lirion

Had an idea for a second job for Parivir, maybe Ronin. If Samurai focuses more on "heavy" armor a Ronin would be a little faster but with lightarmor.

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Parivir IS a job...but not sure what it should have as base class...some katana user anyways. then THM, GEO or some elemental caster class also, since PAR uses elemental weaponskills.
Ronin is a samurai without a master, and it's considered shameful. So it wouldn't make sense to aim for that as a Job ;D

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Originally Posted by Radacci

Parivir IS a job...but not sure what it should have as base class...some katana user anyways. then THM, GEO or some elemental caster class also, since PAR uses elemental weaponskills.
Ronin is a samurai without a master, and it's considered shameful. So it wouldn't make sense to aim for that as a Job ;D

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Haha, can't say Ninja and thief are less shameful. ;)

But yeah, reading up on the Parivir it sounds more like a job than a class. Maybe have it as a second job to a class that also leads to samurai. I suggested earlier in the thread about swordmaster as a class to samurai, maybe it could work for Parivir as well.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

What do you think of:

Job-Shepard-DoL (yes, DoL)

Class-Beastmaster-DoW

A DoL into a DoW would be awesome imo.

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Interesting idea! Would be different, I love it!

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Originally Posted by Lirion

Haha, can't say Ninja and thief are less shameful. ;)

But yeah, reading up on the Parivir it sounds more like a job than a class. Maybe have it as a second job to a class that also leads to samurai. I suggested earlier in the thread about swordmaster as a class to samurai, maybe it could work for Parivir as well.

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Well thief sure, but i think Ninja is fine :p they are tools, so blame the person hiring the ninja; the ninja is just doing his job ^^
Hmm ya, There's Kensei/ai in D&D, dunno if it's exclusive to D&D though. but they are weapon masters...sounds better than weaponmaster :) Otherwise its requirement is to learn 3 fighter skills to unlock...

With regards to samurai, historically they've used so many different weapons, it could be based on quite a few different classes.

The original main weapon of a samurai was actually the yumi, an asymmetrical longbow with a bit of recurve thrown in. Quite challenging to shoot accurately, and it pretty much required daily training and took years to get to the point where a samurai could effectively use it in battle.

The yari (spear) and naginata (galive type weapon) were also popular, especially the yari, which eventually replace the naginata (easier to wield, longer reach).

Unlike popular belief, guns (matchlock, based on a Portuguese design. Japan were mass producing matchlocks as early the mid 1500s) were also a popular weapon, mainly because it didn't require the years of dedicated training to use the yumi. The guns weren't nearly as accurate as a well trained samurai with a yumi, but the guns required little to no training, which means an army of peasants could be 'hired' to shoot them.

Some also used chain weapons, such as a chain with a sickle on one end, and a weight on the other.

The first swords used were the tachi, which were much longer than the popular katana. They were worn with the cutting edge down, and normally used from horseback, but were pretty much useless in close range melee combat. Smaller tachi worn cutting edge up (allowing for quicker drawing in melee combat) were eventually called katana. The yumi (in its specific asymmetrical form) was used as early as the 3rd century, possibly earlier, whereas the katana started being used around the 12th century, when samurai were started to be considered elite military men. Before that they were really just servants (so a butler class leading to a samurai job wouldn't be entirely wrong ;)) The katana as we know it today is from around the 14th century.


/end_samurai_history_lesson_which_no_one_really_cares_about_in_the_first_place :)

well arn't we all servants of all the quest givers anyways? ^^

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Originally Posted by Radacci

well arn't we all servants of all the quest givers anyways? ^^

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True.. Which means if one of those quest givers is nobility, we're all samurai already ;)

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Originally Posted by Millerna

True.. Which means if one of those quest givers is nobility, we're all samurai already ;)

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Everyone in Ul'dah seem to think they are nobility anyways :)
Good thing you'll never become ronin then, since you got 100s of lords/masters there!

I had been toying around with an Idea since the alpha.This is going off the idea that has been tossed around with Musketeer being the next class released.This is a little outside the box but I figured this would be the thread to stick it in so...

Each city has 3 classes and upon reaching lvl 10 on your first class you unlock the ability to learn other classes.Once you have reached lvl 30 in each class you can unlock a corresponding job.After unlocking all 3 jobs in a city you unlock that cities advanced class.Each advanced class starts at lvl 0 and can equip 2 weapon types(not so different from gld using daggers and swords or mages using wands and staffs)and upon reaching lvl 30 unlocks a job for that class.

Here is the tricky part;due to the time and effort of unlocking and leveling so many classes to get here each advanced class unlocks another job when paired with another advanced class from each city.

Here is a picture I was working on to help explain,please be gentle.
(edit adding a link to larger image) http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m...ps9e91fb23.jpg


http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m...ps9e91fb23.jpg

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

What do you think of:

Job-Shepard-DoL (yes, DoL)

Class-Beastmaster-DoW

A DoL into a DoW would be awesome imo.

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I think this would fit Beastmaster well.
Moreover because beastmasters ability to find monsters could be derived from the DoLs class of being able to seek gathering nodes.
The beastmaster itself would have pet commands, and each individual pet would have its own traits, skills and abilities.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

What do you think of:

Job-Shepard-DoL (yes, DoL)

Class-Beastmaster-DoW

A DoL into a DoW would be awesome imo.

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lol why not.

and gardener goes into a GAxe and a Scythe DoW class^^

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Originally Posted by CptGrimlock

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m...ps9e91fb23.jpg

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I think this may be a bit too complicated. I kind of like the idea, but at the same time this seems like it would be next to impossible to balance. It, to me, makes these "advanced jobs" seem more powerful than the dull ones you get from the get go.. That may just be me..

Also, on another note, since when have we accepted the idea that a class will branch off into more than 1 job? I thought Yoshi-P said that this was not planned.