Too much flashy flashiness going on

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Originally Posted by Noelie

Yeah. The thing is I am .. truly over 50, and my eyesight isn't so hot, never has been but I just am not having the problems the poor little person you were responding to is having.

I wonder if he/she/they have considered that perhaps they need to go visit an optometrist because the problem isn't the game, it is them? If I am okay with my old tired eyes, what is his/her/their problem?

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You sound too Hot to be over 50 :D

Love how many comments this thread got. Thanks every single one of you for commenting, appreciate every single one ;) Love you all fellow players, see you in game soon, cant wait ^^ <3

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Originally Posted by Warlock

LOLWUT.... i hope you are trollin...

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No sir im not trolling, it's my honest opinion. I think the world is AMAZING but the bright neon colors of names and zone dots don't feel right to me, especially when everything around is so realistic.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

It's just an opinion. One I disagree with, but still.

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Thank you Gramul :) Im all for good discussions of the good and the bad and you always have been to. Im glad that you can look at someones opinions of something and not tell them they are wrong but actually discuss like a human being. I enjoy and look forward to more posts from you<3

On a side note due to the last few pages:

People this is a discussion, we have the right to agree or not agree, but it's wrong to jump on people for saying things and how they feel. Discuss, don't pick on people for their posts. Theres nothing wrong with someone feeling the game could loose a bit of flash, and nothing wrong with those who love it. It's discussing, and were adults. There's too much picking on each other for their opinions. Respect we are all different and no one feels exactly the same.

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Originally Posted by Kyri

No sir im not trolling, it's my honest opinion. I think the world is AMAZING but the bright neon colors of names and zone dots don't feel right to me, especially when everything around is so realistic.

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Ok now i know you are either trollin or misusing sarcasm ....you simply can't say that when talking about a Final Fantasy game

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Originally Posted by Warlock

Ok now i know you are either trollin or misusing sarcasm ....you simply can't say that when talking about a Final Fantasy game

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*flips back a few pages* Sir it would seem you are the one trolling me for my opinions :P

After looking at wow's cartoonish graphics yes, XIV mostly turns me on by how pretty and realistic it is, in a fantasy based world. I loved XI too but I always wished it looked a little better.
When I say realistic world I mean it's beautiful, a place I foresee myself taking a lot of screenshots in. The reason I dislike the names and the blue dots at zones is because the neon purples and blues really don't fit into the surroundings, in -my- opinion. And I feel the names were a bit too big and neon for my liking, I would like them just a tad smaller so I can leave them on but not have them quite as bright. Not trolling, observations and feelings.

The gross misuse of the words "trolling" and "troll" on this forum is astonishing.

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Originally Posted by Bowen

The gross misuse of the words "trolling" and "troll" on this forum is astonishing.

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Indeed.

A person disagrees with someone = trolling
A person agrees with someone = trolling
A person likes flashy animations = trolling
A person doesn't like flashy animations = trolling
A person doesn't know whether they like flashy animations or not = trolling
A person has a name that begins with one of the letters between A and Z = trolling

People are throwing the word "troll" around like there's no tomorrow. And all it is is just a bunch of Final Fantasy nerds being unable to agree on whether or not their magic should come extra shiny. It just... god...

http://farmnsanity.com/wordpress/wp-...ke-it-stop.jpg

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Originally Posted by Kyri

When I say realistic world I mean it's beautiful, a place I foresee myself taking a lot of screenshots in.

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Weird...World of Warcraft can have some beautiful areas.

http://i49.tinypic.com/2hzrbeg.jpg
http://i46.tinypic.com/2z68a5d.jpg
http://i46.tinypic.com/2dvoozq.jpg

A graphical style shouldn't factor into how fun a game is.

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

A graphical style shouldn't factor into how fun a game is.

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Nonsense. Visual style is a fundamental force in how you react to something. Okami was made all the more fun by its beautiful visuals. Is it the most important thing in games? Not at all. You can have great games with only text, but it doesn't change the fact that great sensible visuals are something that can really help a game be more enjoyable.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Nonsense. Visual style is a fundamental force in how you react to something. Okami was made all the more fun by its beautiful visuals. Is it the most important thing in games? Not at all. You can have great games with only text, but it doesn't change the fact that great sensible visuals are something that can really help a game be more enjoyable.

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http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me...2d04o1_400.gif

Let me guess, you're one of those "games are art" people?

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me...2d04o1_400.gif

Let me guess, you're one of those "games are art" people?

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it is art you'd have to be and utter fool to believe anything different.

to be able to take your dreams, your idea's, your culture and make them come to life in a way that no movie, book, or song could are what games are all about.

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me...2d04o1_400.gif

Let me guess, you're one of those "games are art" people?

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I'm one of those "Games contain art that I have the capacity to enjoy" people?

Sorry that I liked the visuals of Okami and thought it made exploring the world all the more interesting and engaging? I like to look at stuff. I enjoyed Wind Waker, Borderlands, and the Metroid Prime series with thanks to the sound and visuals beautifully complementing game play.

I want to make visuals for games and junk. What's up with you?

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me...2d04o1_400.gif

Let me guess, you're one of those "games are art" people?

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Are you actually trying to say games aren't a form of art? Because if so, allow me to present a counter argument...

http://img.gamefaqs.net/screens/7/6/...97571_2_11.jpg

http://webguyunlimited.com/pixelperf...eenshot_09.jpg

http://ps3media.gamespy.com/ps3/imag...47090_640w.jpg

I win.

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Originally Posted by Valmonte

it is art you'd have to be and utter fool to believe anything different.

to be able to take your dreams, your idea's, your culture and make them come to life in a way that no movie, book, or song could are what games are all about.

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So, that's all it takes to qualify as art? Dreams, ideas and culture that could in no way be done in movie, book or song form? It seems to me that the only part of a game that can't be done in any of those forms is gameplay, which is the main reason games aren't art. The act of pressing buttons to accomplish a goal isn't art, it's a game. Playing football isn't art, so why should playing video games be?

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Originally Posted by Gramul

I'm one of those "Games contain art that I have the capacity to enjoy" people?

Sorry that I liked the visuals of Okami and thought it made exploring the world all the more interesting and engaging? I like to look at stuff. I enjoyed Wind Waker, Borderlands, and the Metroid Prime series with thanks to the sound and visuals beautifully complementing game play.

I want to make visuals for games and junk. What's up with you?

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I didn't say you couldn't enjoy the visuals of Okami, I enjoyed them too. I don't, however, think the game was any better because of them. They're the visual style of a game that had all the fundamental gameplay mechanics in place, that also fit the theme of the game. If they went with a hyper "realistic" graphic style, but left the gameplay literally identical, the game would have been just as fun, it would only lack aesthetic charm.

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

So, that's all it takes to qualify as art? Dreams, ideas and culture that could in no way be done in movie, book or song form? It seems to me that the only part of a game that can't be done in any of those forms is gameplay, which is the main reason games aren't art. The act of pressing buttons to accomplish a goal isn't art, it's a game. Playing football isn't art, so why should playing video games be?

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Because the main thing that defines art as what it is is the factor of creation. Music is a form of art, as it is created to be experienced audibly. Video games have that form of art. Paintings, drawings, and storytelling are also forms of art. Video games have these factors as well. The fact that you have to press buttons to play a video game does not, in any way, disclude video games as a form of art. A person cannot create a football game and it just be a football game. No, you'd have to have people playing a football game in order for it to constitute as a football game. Now, a football video game, in which people create avatars that look like people, create a game environment that looks like a game stadium, and add music that adds to the excitement, that is art, because it is given to us by the artistic talents of those who helped create it using different elements (audibly or visually) of art.

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

I didn't say you couldn't enjoy the visuals of Okami, I enjoyed them too. I don't, however, think the game was any better because of them. They're the visual style of a game that had all the fundamental gameplay mechanics in place, that also fit the theme of the game. If they went with a hyper "realistic" graphic style, but left the gameplay literally identical, the game would have been just as fun, it would only lack aesthetic charm.

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Video games are for playing first and foremost. That still does not disclude them as art. True, looks have no bearing on gameplay. But the game itself is still art because, once again, it is the result of many forms of art coming together to create one item that is also art. A person with your view on the subject one told me "You can't call video games an art, because their purpose is merely t entertain through interaction. It contains many forms of art within, but it's still not art. I mean, look at art museums. You could go inside it and experience all the paintings and sculptures, sure. But that doesn't make the building that houses them art, does it?"

My response: "Actually, architecture is also a form of art." You must interact with a building in order to go inside and out of it. But it's creation and result is art, nonetheless.

Better than mediocre mediocrity any day.

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Originally Posted by KiriA500

I didn't say you couldn't enjoy the visuals of Okami, I enjoyed them too. I don't, however, think the game was any better because of them. They're the visual style of a game that had all the fundamental gameplay mechanics in place, that also fit the theme of the game. If they went with a hyper "realistic" graphic style, but left the gameplay literally identical, the game would have been just as fun, it would only lack aesthetic charm.

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I don't see how lacking aesthetic charm would make the game just as enjoyable. Games are a culmination of many media into a whole and I don't think any piece should be undermined for the sake of another. Start with strong gameplay first certainly, that's the core difference of the medium, but don't skimp on your other aspects because of it. You're creating a world that can't be done in real life, take advantage of that.

Part of the "fun" I get from games is from exploring the aesthetics. Seeing new dungeons and levels, listening to the music and sound effects, trying out new equipment, all those things are equally fun to me.

I agree, some of the scenes were like "woah", But Id prefer to have flashy all over now instead of how dull it was in 1.0.

I was concerned initially with how difficult it was to see what you were hitting but I can only assume a Filter list will be in place that was as detailed as the ones in FFXI to block very specific animations from being shown.

Slightly off-topic however, Video games are definitely art.

Games are Art. FACT!

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Originally Posted by Seraphe

Games are Art. FACT!

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Even if it wasn't, who cares?

What you get is a kind of experience you can't get anywhere else. That in and of itself is a concept of immeasurable value. It doesn't need a label to make it something to be cherished. If having an interactive goal separates it from being art for some reason, fine, let the art world present itself that way. The word "art" isn't important enough for me to change my mind on what I get from games.

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Originally Posted by Gramul

Even if it wasn't, who cares?

What you get is a kind of experience you can't get anywhere else. That in and of itself is a concept of immeasurable value. It doesn't need a label to make it something to be cherished. If having an interactive goal separates it from being art for some reason, fine, let the art world present itself that way. The word "art" isn't important enough for me to change my mind on what I get from games.

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And this time I decide to agree with you again and actually type it ;)

Wow go out for the day and its a different topic! :P
I do like my games extra pretty and though those wow screenshots were very pretty(and ty for showing us) but it still looks drawn/cartoonish to me, not the realistic art that I ment to 14, but very nice :) I do feel games are art and tend to play games that look good and have really good story. Final fantasys way of drawing my surroundings and characters is what really sells 11/14 to me from the mmo market(granted 11 was like 7 years ago) vs games like wow. I like the look of a lot of Korean mmo's too but hate that as a pretty female everything I wear looks like im ready to go to a fetish gang bang party. So final fantasy has touched a nice middle ground for me in the art department as well as music, combat, socialization, and pretty much everything I like to do when I sit down and play a game.

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Originally Posted by SkyeWindbinder

Indeed.

A person disagrees with someone = trolling
A person agrees with someone = trolling
A person likes flashy animations = trolling
A person doesn't like flashy animations = trolling
A person doesn't know whether they like flashy animations or not = trolling
A person has a name that begins with one of the letters between A and Z = trolling

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Not to mention the people who just use the word whenever someone says anything mildly funny.

I'd give a real example, but I don't want to be that big of an asshole today.

TBH I see little difference between XIV's PC spell 'spam' and that one sees in XI on NM fights, if you don't adjust your config settings to exclude it.

As long as XIV has the same 'effect reduction' control as XI then it'll be fine.

Of course games are art...

But does the word even mean anything anymore??


http://www.23hq.com/3364498/3566266_...4eea_large.jpg

http://i580.photobucket.com/albums/s...ring/dead2.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_srOhGcGHvi...nartviewer.jpg

isnt that what FF in FFXIV means? Flashy Flashiness 14? :p

i dont think is over kill. one of Final fantasy s charm is the Huge spells and flashy explosions.... while you attack a little cute sheep :D

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Of course games are art...

But does the word even mean anything anymore??

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Artists can be some funny folks

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

Of course games are art...

But does the word even mean anything anymore??


http://www.23hq.com/3364498/3566266_...4eea_large.jpg

http://i580.photobucket.com/albums/s...ring/dead2.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_srOhGcGHvi...nartviewer.jpg

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Artist my ass.

I've been playing Tera for the passed few days since it went F2P, I noticed a glaring thing right off the bat, the skills menu. It looks IDENTICAL to ARR alpha. This. Scares. Me. I don't want to see it turn into a skill spam fest. People tout Teras battle system but to each their own, I prefer XI's and even 1.0's. I want to spend another decade on an FF game, please make it happen!

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Originally Posted by VitoScaletta

I've been playing Tera for the passed few days since it went F2P, I noticed a glaring thing right off the bat, the skills menu. It looks IDENTICAL to ARR alpha. This. Scares. Me. I don't want to see it turn into a skill spam fest. People tout Teras battle system but to each their own, I prefer XI's and even 1.0's. I want to spend another decade on an FF game, please make it happen!

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there is something mind numbingly boring in Terra that i cant quite place my finger on, i enjoyed the lore and the battles system just something about the way it was all presented i guess.

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Originally Posted by VitoScaletta

I've been playing Tera for the passed few days since it went F2P, I noticed a glaring thing right off the bat, the skills menu. It looks IDENTICAL to ARR alpha. This. Scares. Me. I don't want to see it turn into a skill spam fest. People tout Teras battle system but to each their own, I prefer XI's and even 1.0's. I want to spend another decade on an FF game, please make it happen!

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Whereas UI design is not exactly removed from the way a game plays, FFXII and FFVII both have the same battle UI design (menus and stuff) and yet play vastly different.
Don't jump SO FAST to conclusions

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Originally Posted by Skies

Whereas UI design is not exactly removed from the way a game plays, FFXII and FFVII both have the same battle UI design (menus and stuff) and yet play vastly different.
Don't jump SO FAST to conclusions

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BUT IN ARR YOU CAN JUMP!!!

I disagree and want them to be flashy. Spell animations are supposed to 'wow' us, and not be some stupid lame nothingness that is boring to watch and boring to play. I actually don't see what you are even complaining about, but that is fairly normal since people complain about every little tiny thing.

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Originally Posted by reefo

I disagree and want them to be flashy. Spell animations are supposed to 'wow' us, and not be some stupid lame nothingness that is boring to watch and boring to play. I actually don't see what you are even complaining about, but that is fairly normal since people complain about every little tiny thing.

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*ahem*
I can actually see exactly what they are complaining about even if I disagree.
It's two things that are probably throwing people off: The enemy spazzing when hit (and we've had reps comment that it's that way due to alpha and proper damage response animations will be implemented in beta, although not on phase 1 just yet) and the Activate TP Move flash on the characters. Notice how archer and lancer both trigger the very same flash on themselves when a TP move is triggered, and then there is the animation of the move itself. That flash has considerable brilliance and it is likely distracting those with some combination of very sensitive eyes and/or bad taste.

This isn't flashy at all, it might be a bit brilliant but not flashy. Try watching some videos of 2nd Super Robot Wars for the PS3 and you will see what flashy is.

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Originally Posted by VitoScaletta

I've been playing Tera for the passed few days since it went F2P, I noticed a glaring thing right off the bat, the skills menu. It looks IDENTICAL to ARR alpha. This. Scares. Me. I don't want to see it turn into a skill spam fest. People tout Teras battle system but to each their own, I prefer XI's and even 1.0's. I want to spend another decade on an FF game, please make it happen!

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I hate be that guy but just cause 2 things look the same does not mean the same.

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Originally Posted by reefo

I disagree and want them to be flashy. Spell animations are supposed to 'wow' us, and not be some stupid lame nothingness that is boring to watch and boring to play. I actually don't see what you are even complaining about, but that is fairly normal since people complain about every little tiny thing.

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I think only the less often used animations should be super flashy. Gives em more of a punch and you don't become accustomed to it by using a regular skill with a crazy amount of glitz over and over.
This game has a fantastic natural aesthetic I've seen no other match and I'd like to have the things that diverge from that to be rare and special.

Design wise, it's a matter of Emphasis vs Balance.

There isn't to much flashyness, well not at least so far in alpha. It is actually at times pleasant and nto boring. Relax. Not sure how it will be in BEta, we will have to see.

YouTube | FINAL FANTASY XI Weapon Skill Frenzy (2012)
I really like all these animations. Some of them are extremely flashy and that's okay because they occur relatively rare but the problem with XIVs flashyness is that you can do a flashy skill every 3 seconds. And with 8 people in your Party or an Alliance of 24 people you won't be able to see the mob.

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Originally Posted by Seraphe

YouTube | FINAL FANTASY XI Weapon Skill Frenzy (2012)
I really like all these animations. Some of them are extremely flashy and that's okay because they occur relatively rare but the problem with XIVs flashyness is that you can do a flashy skill every 3 seconds. And with 8 people in your Party or an Alliance of 24 people you won't be able to see the mob.

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I'd prefer that the flashiness functioned as follows: (1= a hint of flash, 10 = FFXII Zodiark/Eden Summon caliber effects)

Lvl 5 Spells and WS = 1
Lvl 30 Spells and WS = 3
Lvl 50 Spells and WS = 5
Lvl 100 Spells and WS = 7

Limit Breaks = 4-8*
Free Company Primal Summoning = 6-9**

Lvl 50-100 - Ultimate Boss Attacks =5-10*

*Range based on Lvl, capped out for Players at lvl 100, and 100+ for mobs.
** Range based on Primal Tier



From what we saw in the Alpha, it looks like most skills are at a '6', which is overkill for lvl 20-ish players. We'll see what Beta looks like and leave feedback if it's too much.