@Devs: Please allow us to travel at will between servers.

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You already demonstrated that you know nothing about the topic (according to you this solution didn't even exist), so I'm sorry if I won't exactly take a cost assessment from you

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Subjective. I've demonstrated plenty of knowledge of the topic, you simply don't agree with it. There's a difference. Stop being rude/inflammatory.

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Server systems are modular. The bigger cost is in creating the core system, not in adding more modules to fit a higher population.

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They are only modular if you designed them to be modular. And even when they are, it still takes work to extend and upgrade them. You seem to be using "server systems" to simply mean the machines the servers run on. But it's not just about the hardware, it's also about the software. When you've programmed the server software to work one way, then the players come in and cry "no, make it work THIS way, dammit" then if they want to do it they have to rewrite their software, not just buy more hardware and plug it in.

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So yeah, Apple to Oranges, but feel free to continue denying it. It's not like it's not evident that you're grasping at straws anyway.

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I'm not grasping at any straws. I'm using reasonable logic while you're resorting to various forms of fallacy. Do be sure to let me know when you can have a sensible logical conversation- that will come when you are able to objectively analyze the two situations presented and see that they do have close similarities and a valid comparison can be made between them. That's what I'll hope for, but what i'll probably get is just another "lolurwrong, gtho"

A single worldwide server network for a game has only been done successfully by a few well known games. I think EVE is the only really successful one I can name off the top of my head. Developing this is not a simple task despite arguments to the contrary. People in this thread would ask that SE essentially abandon all the work they spent developing the new server software and redo it again to utilize a decentralized worldwide network system or ingame server migration system. That's more than likely a massive request and given SE's current situation, it's extremely unrealistic to expect them to make such a major change this late in the ball game.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Subjective. I've demonstrated plenty of knowledge of the topic, you simply don't agree with it. There's a difference. Stop being rude/inflammatory.

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You didn't even know that this was already done (despite having been told, multiple times). I'd say this pretty much shows how much you know about this kind of techology.

So yeah. I doubt you are in any position to make a cost assessment on this system.

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They are only modular if you designed them to be modular. And even when they are, it still takes work to extend and upgrade them. You seem to be using "server systems" to simply mean the machines the servers run on. But it's not just about the hardware, it's also about the software. When you've programmed the server software to work one way, then the players come in and cry "no, make it work THIS way, dammit" then if they want to do it they have to rewrite their software, not just buy more hardware and plug it in.

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No, I'm talking about the software. And if Square Enix (or any other MMORPG developer) didn't design their systems to be modular, then they are incompetent (and I doubt they are), because you never know how successful your game can be, and you always should prepare in advance for a possible surge in playerbase.

Mind you, that's exactly how they do it. In addition to that, the server structure and netcode of ARR already involves data transfer and intercommunication between servers. Otherwise it wouldn't have a cross server dungeon finder. The base of the system is already in place.

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I'm not grasping at any straws. I'm using reasonable logic while you're resorting to various forms of fallacy

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I don't need to "resort" to fallacy, as your arguments are fallacious in themselves. Denying obvious differences to prove a false point doesn't exactly do your arguments any favor.

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A single worldwide server network for a game has only been done successfully by a few well known games. I think EVE is the only really successful one I can name off the top of my head. Developing this is not a simple task despite arguments to the contrary. People in this thread would ask that SE essentially abandon all the work they spent developing the new server software and redo it again to utilize a decentralized worldwide network system or ingame server migration system. That's more than likely a massive request and given SE's current situation, it's extremely unrealistic to expect them to make such a major change this late in the ball game.

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You continue forgetting the fact that the game's server system already has a worldwide network system. Having decentralized servers has nothing to do with the actual infrastructure, and communication between those servers.

Even just the login system is common between servers of all regions, and the fact that the game will have a cross-server dungeon finder that will *already* allow players of different servers to play together, means that the base is already in place.

Your theory that implies the necessity of a whole do-over of the system is a gross exaggeration.

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You didn't even know that this was already done (despite having been told, multiple times). I'd say this pretty much shows how much you know about this kind of techology.

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Knowledge of games using a tech != knowledge of the tech itself. therefore, you're wrong in implying how much you think I know. I have studied networking in and out of college, so please stop making insulting statements when you don't know the actual facts.

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I don't need to "resort" to fallacy, as your arguments are fallacious in themselves.

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My arguments have not been fallicious. I have been making reasonable comparisons between similar situations. You branding them "different" doesn't take the similarities away. Saying one situation is just like the other is not the same as saying the situations are identical. It's a good thing I wasn't doing what you were describing.

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No, I'm talking about the software. And if Square Enix (or any other MMORPG developer) didn't design their systems to be modular, then they are incompetent (and I doubt they are), because you never know how successful your game can be, and you always should prepare in advance for a possible surge in playerbase.

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Server software doesn't have to be modular to prepare for a possible surge in playerbase. If there is a surge of playerbase, you simply open more servers and offer server transfers to balance the population. Every server based game has done this for years and years. If you want to call SE "incompetent," well, look at FFXI- they made that too, it's server based, and their code structure is obviously anything but modular given their approach to solving the game's issues. Yeah, its a slippery slope, but you've been using it too so why can't I?

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Knowledge of games using a tech != knowledge of the tech itself. therefore, you're wrong in implying how much you think I know. I have studied networking in and out of college, so please stop making insulting statements when you don't know the actual facts.

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You demonstrated that you don't know how that technology is used, and if you don't have any idea on how technology is applied, your knowledge is evidently lacking, and you're not qualified to make a cost assessment on it, since you don't even know how this kind of system works.

This is further demonstrated by the fact that you ignore that the base of the system is already in place, since the servers are already designed for on-the-fly character and data transfer between themselves. Otherwise there would be not cross-server anything, and even less cross-server gameplay like the dungeon finder.

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My arguments have not been fallicious. I have been making reasonable comparisons between similar situations. You branding them "different" doesn't take the similarities away. Saying one situation is just like the other is not the same as saying the situations are identical. It's a good thing I wasn't doing what you were describing.

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The difference is that the situations are evidently different, as they imply a completely different level of effort from the users in question.

Making time to spend it with someone is not comparable with having to create (and level up) a whole new character or transfering servers (which also costs money) while abandoning your whole contact list.

Arguing differently is like arguing that going to see someone that lives in the same neighborhood is the same as going to visit someone that lives in a different nation, and pretty much the very definition of grasping at straws.

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Server software doesn't have to be modular to prepare for a possible surge in playerbase. If there is a surge of playerbase, you simply open more servers and offer server transfers to balance the population. Every server based game has done this for years and years. If you want to call SE "incompetent," well, look at FFXI- they made that too, it's server based, and their code structure is obviously anything but modular given their approach to solving the game's issues. Yeah, its a slippery slope, but you've been using it too so why can't I?

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No, I don't want to call SE incompetent (but I knew you would have tried to paint it that way), because i know that, like every other MMORPG developer out there, they design their servers systems so that they are modular, in order to facilitate expansion and evolution.

Doing it differently means not being able to react to unforeseen situations and to the trends of the market, which is a very bad idea.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Well that's exactly what i'm referring to here- your best buddy from school or since years and years ago vs someone you met while playing the game.

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Well, that's where the "real life decisions" come into play. Like having to move to another country and them becoming your internet friends, and in some cases gradually losing contact with them over the years. So saying internet friends < rl friends is not that simple.

I agree with you Abriael, and it is certainly something the development team should think about, if they haven't done so already. The primary reason for it as you have already said:

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Games are moving away from it more and more. And it'd be a good thing for ARR not to miss the train and remain anchored to an obsolete limitation that players won't accept anymore in a few years.

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Case in Point: I'm playing GW2 atm, and got a message from a friend that started on one world then moved to another to group up with some of his friends. He let me know that he moved, and "wala" I instantly changed worlds to be with them within seconds. I further understand that you can do this in GW2 every 7 days. It certainly is a nice feature.

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I further understand that you can do this in GW2 every 7 days. It certainly is a nice feature.

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That's not a worldwide network though- it's just server transfers with less restrictions than typical. Which I'm not really against, but I feel that 7 days is too loose and allows for exploitative server hopping.

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since the servers are already designed for on-the-fly character and data transfer between themselves.

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Can I see your badge for access to SE HQ where you could see the source code to know this? It certainly hasnt been mentioned or announced by the community team in any post in recent memory. If I'm being horribly absentminded, please link me to where what you describe was explicitly stated (and if it was stated, then why are we even arguing about it? wouldn't that mean they are already doing it?)

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You demonstrated that you don't know how that technology is used

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I didn't demonstrate this anywhere. You are just insulting me without basis. I have a BA in computer science. I know "how technology is applied. I #&$%ing studied it.

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you're not qualified to make a cost assessment on it, since you don't even know how this kind of system works.

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I do know how that kind of system works. I can only guesstimate the costs because there are unknown variables at play- how much infrastructure SE would actually need, how much work would need to be done to adapt or revise their server source (and client UI) to adapt to a different kind of network topology, and so on. I can certainly tell you that it will vary greatly with the expected number of active users.

But that's only if we're talking about switching to a single game world system. Obviously making server transfers easy and less restricted doesn't require much work. I wouldnt mind looser restrictions than what XI had, as I mentioned above- but not changing servers at any time whenever you want. There has to be a limit on how frequently you can do it.

Yea... ARR should be develop in mind that anyone can party together doing stuff together and not in instant, despite being in different servers.

like the theory of Guesting from GW2. Which many2 people are still anxiously waiting for it... =.=

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I didn't demonstrate this anywhere. You are just insulting me without basis. I have a BA in computer science. I know "how technology is applied. I #&$%ing studied it.

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Really?

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Logistically moving from one server to another is not an instant and easy task.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I don't know of any place where this has already been implemented

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Quite obviously, a BA in Computer Science (which is a rather enormous subject, and doesn't give you specific professional knowledge on server structures applied to MMORPGs, let alone knowledge on costs and development times in that field) doesn't help you much here.

You didn't even know that the technology was actually created and applied, and now we should believe that you suddenly know all about it?

That, of course, without mentioning the fact that telling you that you don't know something obviously isn't an "insult" in any shape or form.

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You didn't even know that the technology was actually applied, and now we should believe that you know all about it?

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Lack of awareness of specific peices of software implemeting specific features doesn't mean I don't know how technology is applied, sorry. Try again.

I apologize I haven't kept up with MMORPG systems news as much as you'd like. That doesn't make me unqualified to discuss technology on a theoretical level. It's fine to say you didn't mean to offend, but you can't control whether or not someone is actually offended. Why shouldn't be offended when you're effectively trying to make me look bad?

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That, of course, without mentioning the fact that telling you that you don't know something obviously isn't an "insult" in any shape or form.

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It is an insult when I do know something, and you are specifically using my alleged lack of knowledge as an attack.

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Logistically moving from one server to another is not an instant and easy task.

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WoW, and most other MMOs developed around its time and before, a server transfer would take a certain amount of time to complete. There is data, possibly a substantial amount of data, that needs to be moved/copied from one machine to another. This is a simple fact that your destionation server needs the data. In WoW, you wouldn't be able to log in to the character you created for a short period of time after initiating the transfer- You also had to do it on the website, not within the game client. So no, it's not instant. If the size of the data is large (I really can't be sure how much space our save data takes up, but it must be something at least slightly significant if it takes them months to convert the data for 2.0's format)then you would have to wait at least a short time. Hence "it is not an instant ... task."

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Lack of awareness of specific peices of software implemeting specific features doesn't mean I don't know how technology is applied, sorry. Try again.

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Not only you didn't know it happened, but you also described it as something extremely difficult and almost unfeasible. Which it isn't. Any MMORPG with cross-server group finders has the base of the technology alreasy implemented to a rather large extent.

Having spoken multiple times with the developers that made it happen, your lack of practical and theoretical knowledge on the specific subject is rather evident, sorry to say.

You describe the work necessary to implement the system as something that would force Square Enix to completely redo their systems, which you can't argue, because you simply don't know how their systems are, and most likely it's completely untrue, as (thing that you seem to continue to ignore), their current server structure already involves immediate and unlimited transfers of character data and connections between servers, regardless of region. That's how cross-server gameplay is done, and we already know that ARR will involve cross-server gameplay.

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It is an insult when I do know something, and you are specifically using my alleged lack of knowledge as an attack.

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Nope. Whether you know or you don't (and you don't) telling you that you don't know something is not an insult. You may want to review the meaning of the word.

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Not only you didn't know it happened, but you also described it as something extremely difficult and almost unfeasible.

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Dude, we're tlaking about like 5 different things in this thread. I never called mere server transfers "unfeasible." I was referring to the one world type of system (e.g. eve online). which most certainly would be difficult to implement at this point. Please, get your statements in order before continuing to attack me baselessly.

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Nope. Whether you know or you don't (and you don't) telling you that you don't know something is not an insult. You may want to review the meaning of the word.

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verb (used with object) 1. to treat or speak to insolently or with contemptuous rudeness; affront.

2. to affect as an affront; offend or demean.

3. Archaic. to attack; assault.

I consider the statements you are making to be rude and insolent because they are untrue. It's OK, you can insult people without being aware that you are doing so. But once you become aware, it's generally a wise move to correct the behavior.

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You describe the work necessary to implement the system as something that would force Square Enix to completely redo their systems, which you can't argue, because you simply don't know how their systems are,

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Lets make it abundantly clear. This was NOT, I repeat, NOT, a comment relating to SEVER TRANSFERS (Which I specifically stated that SE has said there will be server transfers available at some point). This comment was directed at the idea of a system where there is only one game world for everybody to be in, to thereby eliminate the segregation you complain about. Obviously there is some confusion as to what each of us is talking about, because I most certainly do know what I am talking about, it's evidently simply not the same thing you're talking about.

I most certainly can argue that they would have to completely redo their systems, because it's a completely different network architecture.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Dude, we're tlaking about like 5 different things in this thread. I never called mere server transfers "unfeasible." I was referring to the one world type of system (e.g. eve online). which most certainly would be difficult to implement at this point. Please, get your statements in order before continuing to attack me baselessly.

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We weren't even talking about EVE online, and putting the system I proposed in the OP in the same cauldron as EVE Online further proves that you don't really know what we're talking about. They're extremely diverse setups.

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verb (used with object) 1. to treat or speak to insolently or with contemptuous rudeness; affront.

2. to affect as an affront; offend or demean.

3. Archaic. to attack; assault.

I consider the statements you are making to be rude and insolent because they are untrue. It's OK, you can insult people without being aware that you are doing so. But once you become aware, it's generally a wise move to correct the behavior.

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It's not an insult just because you consider it so. You argue that it's untrue, but from what I read from your own mouth, compared to what actual developers that worked on this system told me, it's absolutely true. You don't know much if any about this specific topic, and that lack of knowledge is pertinent to the discourse, as you tried to make a cost/time assessment without knowing not only the specific system, but also the system Square Enix already has in place, which is, to be perfectly honest, ludicrous.

Personally, I make the suggestions and I'll leave cost/time assessments to Yoshida and Square Enix, and can't help but roll my eyes when someone pretends to know or to even be able to guess how much implementing something will cost them, or hoe much time it will take them without having a single shred of information on their current server structure, personnel, engine and resources.

I'm sorry if I don't feel very much guilty for reminding you of your lack of omniscience.

Just to close this pointless debate, I'll leave you with another piece of specific information for your perusal.

Funcom is currently in the process of retrofitting the system into Age of Conan, that was never built to support it. If it was so very costly, they would have no reason to implement it into a game that is only relatively successful and doesn't certainly bring in the billions.

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We weren't even talking about EVE online, and putting the system I proposed in the OP in the same cauldron as EVE Online further proves that you don't really know what we're talking about.

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I didn't say you were the one that proposed it- but it came up and I started talking about it.

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It's not an insult just because you consider it so.

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whether or not something is an insult is entirely dependent on whether or not the recipient of the statement is offended by it.

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You argue that it's untrue, but from what I read from your own mouth, it's absolutely true.

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You're not reading from my mouth correctly if you think so. It's obvious there's some miscommunication going on here- but yet you continue to insult me. This discussion would be completely settled if you just realized that 1) I feel insulted by your statements and you acknowledge that and apologize and 2) you realize th at there was a miscommunication and we were not actually discussing the same topics.

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Funcom is currently in the process of retrofitting the system into Age of Conan, that was never built to support it. If it was so very costly, they would have no reason to implement it into a game that is only relatively successful and doesn't certainly bring in the billions.

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I do not think that implementing server transfers is costly and difficult. Again, I was not talking about server transfers at the time!

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

whether or not something is an insult is entirely dependent on whether or not the recipient of the statement is offended by it.

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Nope. Whether or not something is an insult is entirely dependent on the objective definition of insult. If someone is offended by me telling them that they have a pimple on their nose, it doesn't mean I'm insulting them.

It means they're oversensitive.

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I do not think that implementing server transfers is costly and difficult. Again, I was not talking about server transfers at the time!

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This isn't just a matter of server transfers. Would you pretty please just go read the OP and then come back? If there's any miscommunication, it sure isn't on my side. I believe I explained the system rather well.

It's rather hard to believe that from all that explanation, all you understood is a request for them to implement normal server transfers for free. I'm not even sure how it would be possible to misunderstand just by reading the topic.

quit it you two beeches =.=

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Nope. Whether or not something is an insult is entirely dependent on the objective definition of insult. If someone is offended by me telling them that they have a pimple on their nose, it doesn't mean I'm insulting them.

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if I'm offended by something someone said to me, then that was an insult. You don't have to have the intent to insult to insult somebody.

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This isn't just a matter of server transfers. Would you pretty please just go read the OP and then come back? If there's any miscommunication, it sure isn't on my side. I believe I explained the system rather well.

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Well, the last time i read your post, and the topic title, it said that you wanted to be able to switch servers at will. therefore essentially server transfers, just without any limitations. I also did not accuse you of miscommunicating. The miscommunication was you not realizing that I wasn't talking about the same thing you were talking about. I could have spelled that out a lot more clearly apparently.

I'm done with this, it seems neither of us is able to communicate clearly to the other.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

if I'm offended by something someone said to me, then that was an insult. You don't have to have the intent to insult to insult somebody.

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It's no matter of intent. It's a simple matter of you confusing "insult" with "offend". They're not the same.

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Well, the last time i read your post, and the topic title, it said that you wanted to be able to switch servers at will. therefore essentially server transfers, just without any limitations. I also did not accuse you of miscommunicating. The miscommunication was you not realizing that I wasn't talking about the same thing you were talking about. I could have spelled that out a lot more clearly apparently.

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Why exactly would you come to a topic about something to argue against something entirely different that no one proposed or even mentioned?

Looks like the one not realizing something here is you, not me.

Also, you're not transfering servers. Your home server remains the same. Every time you log into the game, you log into your home server of choice. You're just temporarily traveling to a server in order to interact with its community.

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Nope. Whether or not something is an insult is entirely dependent on the objective definition of insult. If someone is offended by me telling them that they have a pimple on their nose, it doesn't mean I'm insulting them.

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Looks like a roll reversal here! Remember when you thought I was insulting you or "personal attacking" you and you kept claiming quite of few people " including me" were personally attacking/insulting you. But what I was saying was far from attacking you.

And now when he is insulted by what you said, your saying it wasn't an insult. But he's saying it is.

This is what I don't like.. nitpicking and saying people are insulting people when were not insulting.. So in a way I'm kinda defending you.. and proving my innocence at the same time :p.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

This is what I don't like.. nitpicking and saying people are insulting people when were not insulting.. So in a way I'm kinda defending you.. and proving my innocence at the same time :p.

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Only, it's not the same situation, because calling someone "butthurt" and the like is objectively a personal attack (and actually an insult too).

I don't remember you ever telling me that I don't know about something. If you ever did, you wouldn't have to worry about me calling it a personal attack. Not knowing something is not objectively negative, whether true or not. Even if it wasn't true, i can simply disprove it with my arguments instead of crying foul.

Now, if we could go back to the topic at hand instead of discussiong the technical difference between insults, personal attacks and offense, it'd be lovely.

I doubt it'll happen, but oh well. Thought I'd ask.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Only, it's not the same situation, because calling someone "butthurt" and the like is objectively a personal attack (and actually an insult too).

I don't remember you ever telling me that I don't know about something. If you ever did, you wouldn't have to worry about me calling it a personal attack. Not knowing something is not objectively negative, whether true or not. Even if it wasn't true, i can simply disprove it with my arguments instead of crying foul.

Now, if we could go back to the topic at hand instead of discussiong the technical difference between insults, personal attacks and offense, it'd be lovely.

I doubt it'll happen, but oh well. Thought I'd ask.

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I'm "just" saying that's all, I thought I bring it up since the subject was at hand about insults. Carry on with your regularly Scheduled Program! :D.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

It's no matter of intent. It's a simple matter of you confusing "insult" with "offend". They're not the same.

Also, you're not transfering servers. Your home server remains the same. Every time you log into the game, you log into your home server of choice. You're just temporarily traveling to a server in order to interact with its community.

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Most likely you are transferring servers technically. Do you have details how this is implemented? Please tell.

Do you think you're still connected to your home server's database?

When you go to another server your character would need to be replicated on the other server and when you return home any changes synchronized to your home server's database. If this is not how it works please let me know how it works.

Low priority issue for me. There are things I like and don't like about this kind of server structure. If they decide to add it, fine. If they don't, fine. I wouldn't freak out over it though. Typical transfers should suffice until/if they finally decide to do it.

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Originally Posted by Pseudopsia

Most likely you are transferring servers technically. Do you have details how this is implemented? Please tell.

Do you think you're still connected to your home server's database?

When you go to another server your character would need to be replicated on the other server and when you return home any changes synchronized to your home server's database. If this is not how it works please let me know how it works.

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There are actually multiple ways to do it. I actually never asked how they do it specifically on The Secret World (I will in the next interview I get with them, since it's interesting).

The most server-efficient way to do it is actually the opposite of a transfer. It's simply to have the whole character database stored in every server, so what changes is simply what server your client is connected to. Then, when you switch world again, updated data of your character is sent to all the other servers only once.

It minimizes server communication and streamlines the process by a lot, as effectively your character exists in every server, and you're simply connecting to a different server whenever you "move".

It's also the easiest way to implement, as the only difference with the traditional server infrastructure is the ability to log off your server and into another on the fly, and the system that updates characters on the other servers every time you make the switch. It's technically pretty simple.

I believe that's how it works on TSW, from what I heard and from what I've seen of the client but I don't have final evidence on it. I'll ask.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

There are actually multiple ways to do it. I actually never asked how they do it specifically on The Secret World (I will in the next interview I get with them, since it's interesting).

The most server-efficient way to do it is actually the opposite of a transfer. It's simply to have the whole character database stored in every server, so what changes is simply what server your client is connected to. Then, when you switch world again, updated data of your character is sent to all the other servers only once.

It minimizes server communication and streamlines the process by a lot, as effectively your character exists in every server, and you're simply connecting to a different server whenever you "move".

It's also the easiest way to implement, as the only difference with the traditional server infrastructure is the ability to log off your server and into another on the fly, and the system that updates characters on the other servers every time you make the switch. It's technically pretty simple.

I believe that's how it works on TSW, from what I heard and from what I've seen of the client but I don't have final evidence on it. I'll ask.

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That doesn't sound like that will scale very well. If there was a large amount of servers like WoW and each database has a copy of all the characters then all the databases would be huge with millions of entries. In this situation there's a very rare chance you would log on to all the server so why waste resources to replicate to all servers? This would have to be synchronized constantly.

I wonder how GW2 does it... hmmmm .

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Originally Posted by Pseudopsia

That doesn't sound like that will scale very well. If there was a large amount of servers like WoW and each database has a copy of all the characters then all the databases would be huge with millions of entries. In this situation there's a very rare chance you would log on to all the server so why waste resources to replicate to all servers? This would have to be synchronized constantly.

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That scaling is already done even if you don't have this system in place. With time you'll get millions of entries anyway, as people continue to create characters without deleting them, and new players enter the same server over the years. It increases the size of the database, but a MMORPG character database is already designed to include an enormous amount of character data anyway.

Alternatively, you could simply copy the character data to the server you're temporarily traveling to (while still keeping it on the home server as well) and delete it only from the destination server when you go back and/or move to another, while updating the original.

Even in this case it would be efficient server-wise, as you have to copy the character data only once whenever the character move, and you're effectively logged on a "temporary character" on another server. You're not really moving anything around besides your connection and few bits of data, and no data is transfered between servers while you're actually playing.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Looks like a roll reversal here! Remember when you thought I was insulting you or "personal attacking" you and you kept claiming quite of few people " including me" were personally attacking/insulting you. But what I was saying was far from attacking you.

And now when he is insulted by what you said, your saying it wasn't an insult. But he's saying it is.

This is what I don't like.. nitpicking and saying people are insulting people when were not insulting.. So in a way I'm kinda defending you.. and proving my innocence at the same time :p.

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Well you're being reasonably friendly here :p Yes, I understand that about disputes over technicalities. But the simple fact of the matter is, if you're causing offense to someone, whether you meant it or not and whether "insult" is the right word or not, if you're a reasonable person not intending to offend you stop saying things that are established to offend the person.

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Why exactly would you come to a topic about something to argue against something entirely different that no one proposed or even mentioned?

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Maybe if you read back through the thread you'll figure it out. Discussions shift, ebb and flow. Sometimes people come up with other ideas, thoughts and suggestions that might be relevant so they start talking about them. I can't be the only person who has ever done this? Remember also that not necessarily every response in a thread is necessarily directed at the original poster.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Maybe if you read back through the thread you'll figure it out. Discussions shift, ebb and flow.

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That would be fairly reasonable (while off topic) if you came to propose or suggest something yourself. But you're telling that you effectively came in to argue against something that no one proposed and/or suggested and/or even mentioned. Quoting me directly, no less.

Forgive me if I say that it doesn't make much sense.

I had written up an explanation in response to your comment (mainly pointing out the fact that I didn't come in to argue against someone that no one had proposed or suggested, which is fact by the way) but I determined it would bring the thread full circle back to where this mess actually began. So I aborted that idea.

I have kinda scanned through these 11 pages, and I can see how a system would be kinda cool... but to be honest I am so glad that it's not. I love the fact that servers are separate @_@. I have a few deeply personal reasons for enjoying this (such as - avoiding a stalker!), but it's relieving for me to know that if there's a bunch of asshats on ServerA and I transfer to ServerB, then I am 99% sure I will never bump into them ever again... unless by some sad twist of fate they also transfer at some point in the future.

Content finder is cool (I'm not sure if I'll ever use it or not), but as I said - I love the fact that servers are separate entities and that we can't travel between them freely.

Nixy, you've been absent X3 Missu

Well for one our accounts are not just the name with the attached character but data with many customized options attached to it such as achievements, items in storage, quest completions, places explored etc. So the exchange of data is not as easy as lumping the lot together and pushing it over because certain functions may or may not activate and then any loose data will act corrupted if not adapted exactly as the functions wishes for them to be formatted and could make account access impossible given a specific chain of events (Those that had to manually change your update version manually in the client know exactly what I mean). In the event that this happens or is capable of happening they would have to have steps to rebuild the data to insert it. This becomes a task when a function is added after the structure is secured which is why Everquest, WoW, and FFXI would initially have a charge but after streamlining it keeping it as a small profit maker wouldn't hurt.

Now on cross server content that wouldn't matter because the instance takes what it needs of your character and leaves the rest on the server and then adds the changes back when you leave the instance. That is different then dragging everything you did with you into the instance which is a much bigger chunk of data and variables.

On your Funcom argument while they would say it is easy now that would be after they built the tools and functions from the ground up which was less then easy with the many delays they had mostly due to lay offs as evidence. So its expense is man hours which one could express in a dollar amount which brings me back to the fact they had lay offs most likely to save money more so then they didn't like those employees. On the structures Bioware development team said the same thing about the shards but alot of work went into making them function correctly with out people getting stuck in shards not loaded and removing the possible abuse of things like World Bosses which had long timers that each shard has to be responsible for holding. Implementation of even a simple idea once a prototype is pass its proof of concept is not simple java virtual machine is a fine example as it came along way to what it is now.

But lets get technical for this system to work they would have to make an independent data server that stores our account specifics so that data that is "us" could freely travel from server to server with the "9 sec" load time you mentioned before and have our inventory and stored inventory easily accessed with as little delay as possible even if everyone on the entire servers base access their data at the same time. But server raid content restrictions (timer, loot ability,etc.) and content accessibility (level check,key item possession, CS progression) would also have to check back to the data server. While I do understand your idea there will be alot of data transfer independently of people actually switching servers in general to make the process as a whole smooth. Which wouldn't be as easy as attaching some code here change some server rules here and expanding bandwidth. And sure you could have alot of it client side but as we all know our dedicated core of code diggers are a problem with that as while some are trust worthy it only takes one person to modify values in one way or another to abuse that system to make that idea not valid as given enough time any encryption could be broken because we access the tools that decrypt when we login so that point of reference is massively different then a puzzle to a key that you have no idea which door it opens.

Eve is a fine example of server cluster design because their server structure inter-dependency is literally nets of servers that can at any time can be stopped restarted and initialized with out effecting any other and the data that is there such as items stored in space stations can be backup and tracked easily. All these are not by happenstance but design which is rarely discuss in the technical aspect I assume because the development team chooses to be close lipped about it. So the fact that ARR made it to alpha just would make this more of a time sync then a functional objective. If ARR wanted to still have the open consistent world but if they wanted and are willing to make it like monster hunter or DnD Online it would be exactly what your suggesting and would be able to require few man hour as the free to play models the system uses across the board is proof that they pay for themselves quickly.

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Originally Posted by Vilhem

Nixy, you've been absent X3 Missu

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I missutuuuu Vil! Sorry I've been away! Slaving hardcore making stuffed animals XD (I wish I was kidding!) - my Dad flies from the UK to the States on sunday to visit so I'm haulin' ass and trying to get the house re-arranged for his visit lol ;~;. wtb strong mans for moving furniture preez!

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Originally Posted by Nix

I missutuuuu Vil! Sorry I've been away! Slaving hardcore making stuffed animals XD (I wish I was kidding!) - my Dad flies from the UK to the States on sunday to visit so I'm haulin' ass and trying to get the house re-arranged for his visit lol ;~;. wtb strong mans for moving furniture preez!

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I can send you Thancred to help '-' if you can pry him out of the Miqo'te thread!

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Originally Posted by Vilhem

I can send you Thancred to help '-' if you can pry him out of the Miqo'te thread!

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*rolls up sleeves* I'm brave for my thancredz

Going back to the OP, I think this is a nice idea.

One of the problems players are facing come the launch of ARR is what server to choose. As it’s been confirmed that we are getting regional servers, people are going to want to go to a server where they get the best connection. But if many linkshells are similar to the one I belong to, we have players from all over the world which means it’s likely we will all get split up. We could stay together but some will suffer a server with a less-than-optimal connection. The OP’s idea would resolve this problem.

There are other benefits to name a few; if a certain server is having problems, you can still play by moving to another server. You’re not limited to having to wait for the problem with your server to be fixed before you can play. If you’re wanting to farm a particular mob but all the reasonable farm locations are taken, jump on another server and check again there. You discover an old friend is playing the game but is on a different server... not a problem.

To resolve possible economy problems, only allow players to buy and sell from their home server as someone mentioned in an earlier post.

The only major problem I can see with this is the community becomes one massive group in comparison to many smaller tightly knit groups. You wouldn’t have the choice of going to a smaller or larger populated server (which ever you prefer) as they are all interconnected.

All technical jargon aside and whether this can or cannot be done at this stage of the development, we know SE are implementing something similar for grouping players for instanced dungeons and the like. Maybe there’s going to be more to it that they haven’t told us yet. But who knows.

They wont do this and i dont want it. They already stated they want to keep the 1.0 players seperate from all the new characters that will be created upon ARR's release. Complain all you want, they wont change it.

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Originally Posted by ZakarnRosewood

They wont do this and i dont want it. They already stated they want to keep the 1.0 players seperate from all the new characters that will be created upon ARR's release. Complain all you want, they wont change it.

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What complain exactly?

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Originally Posted by ZakarnRosewood

They wont do this and i dont want it. They already stated they want to keep the 1.0 players seperate from all the new characters that will be created upon ARR's release. Complain all you want, they wont change it.

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That's not really what he's complaining about.