People need to lay off this logic. If it's "such an industry standard"..why play FFXIV? You do realize "Industry Standard" is just a fancy way of saying "MMO B is a replica of MMO A"...right? Why do you think most MMOs you can download and play for free are all pretty much the same thing? Not because of "Industry standards" lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gardthorne
If someone doesn't like something it's not because "you only played 1 MMO", its because someone doesn't like something. Adding vanity slots is realistically a waste when XIV needs much more than just allowing mages to look like ..anything but a mage.
But hey, long as they add the ability to overwrite someone's vanity options by forcing their real display, all is well. You could look like a reject warrior with a mage hat if you want, long as its an optional display for other clients.
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10-08-2012, 11:47 PMElexia
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10-09-2012, 06:34 PMJinrya-Geki
Elexia why do you ignore the fact people say they want to classes/jobs armors placed in vanity slots to be class/job specific?
So as Thm/Blm I can wear anything that has Thm/Blm requirements on it. -
10-09-2012, 06:46 PMxXHalloweenTrixXx
Vanity Slots definitely should be added~
So many mmorpgs nowadays carry the option of allowing players to re-skin their armor. All they simply have to do is have it restricted to class/job gear. So for example you can only reskin a THM armor with another THM armor, and goes the same for every other class/job gear. That way there won't be any confusion.
Also there is no need for it to be an optional display, the last game I played was Tera Online and it seemed to work out just fine there. After all its just an aesthetic change, and people should be allowed to at least be happy with their character's appearance, and should be able to express themselves through their avatars to others. -
10-09-2012, 08:07 PMKio
Certain headwear should at least have the option of vanity gear. Some people really identify themselves as being the guy with glasses or the girl with a hair ribbon etc. You shouldn't have to take off your glasses because you're wearing a robe that has a hood.
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10-09-2012, 08:23 PMArkine
I think Guild Wars 2 style dye-ing would be better than vanity slots, even mismatched equipment can look presentable if the color scheme is the same.
I don't have the source for this but I remember DEVs talking about having something about equipment coming in around 30 different colors, which would be cool if it was true. -
10-09-2012, 09:23 PMEruantien
I don't understand the hate, the only argument that seems to be against having vanity is that you cannot tell what job they are. But as said if the vanity slots are still job/class specific then where's the issue.
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10-09-2012, 09:27 PMmoriandrio
Cause other games have it, FFXIV needs to have it too?
Do you jump of a bridge just cause other do it? -
10-09-2012, 09:44 PMEruantien
But it's a nice feature, jumping off a bridge can hurt you, what damage does having this bring to ffxiv
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10-10-2012, 12:02 AMArtiss2kTHIS: All day long, all we really need is a good dye system. mismatched gear will look like it does go together if the color scheme is the same. that way all AF wearers of a job wont look exactly the same. i know there are some pieces of gear that have a helmet or hood attached to it etc but an option for hood up or down could help with the robe at least. I would also like for it to cost something to change colors. i remember on DCUO we were swapping colors every 15 minutes, and everytime we went to do something we had to wait on this one guy because he couldn't stay out of that menu messing with his colors. I don't want that to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkine
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10-10-2012, 12:52 AMmoriandrioWe need 2.0 with all its core function and i doubt dev can waste ressources for something trivial like this atm. This is a feature you can think about when everything else works properlyQuote:
THIS: All day long, all we really need is a good dye system.
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10-10-2012, 12:55 AMZantetsukenAgreed! Much better than a vanity system. Adding a few more dye colors and allowing all gear to be dyed all colors is the best fix. - Keep dying in the hands of crafters (and require all-purpose dyes to change colors) and you won't have issues like you did in DCUO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Artiss2k
Also, the colors for gear in the current engine (and I assume ARR) are not part of the texture maps but are dynamic values assigned by the engine - so this is a very easy change to make as long as it works aesthetically.
Agree with this as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by moriandrio
Though it should go without saying. -
10-10-2012, 12:59 AMOnisakehmmm. A good dye system would help alleviate the mis-match of equipment. however I feel some gear should not be dye-able. Darklight. AF. etc. and unfortunately these are the pieces that are the biggest problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkine
The best example I can think of are certain AF pants (Like WHM and BRD). these pants were designed to look good with the AF body. and they do look good with the AF body. however if you switch bodies, to say imperial dalmatica for whm. but keep your AF pants... it looks a little silly. and no amount of dye will fix that.
I could also do without the permanent camel-toe from BRD AF pants. I've got a nice PIE raptorskin Harness. and while i don't mind how it looks. it looks silly with BRD AF pants. and unless i can change the entire pallet so that both legs are the same color, that problem will not go away. If I ever get my militia subligar that will not be an issue. but in the mean time i'm stuck with camel-toe city.
while Vanity slots may not be that easy to implement. having something default to 'switch' to could help out. IE: /display body on/off could switch your armor from something standard like RSE to what you're actually wearing. I have severe issues in my own head when i have to weigh stats vs. vanity. it irks me to no end when i'm in an epic cut-scene and I look like a clown. :( In FFXI i had made a gear swap macro for 'cut-scene gear' usually this was my AF. but we can't change gear in active mode. so that's a no-go.
Alternatively you could add a set bonus to AF to make it competitive with double melds. but this causes a completely different set of problems. a vanity gear set would make much more sense. -
10-10-2012, 02:03 AMxXHalloweenTrixXxQuote:
Originally Posted by moriandrio
You don't know what the dev can -waste- resources on. Why does everybody think they know the DEV's agenda and what they can or cannot do with their time? -
10-10-2012, 02:32 AMmoriandrio
Cause everybody want's to play ARR asap, so if you waste ressources for something trivial like this it gonna take longer since ppl could do something important.
And if they start wasting time for some BS like this we won't see ARR in the next half year.... -
10-10-2012, 02:45 AMReikaBecause puting vanity slots on the list of things to do has to halt production of ARR?Quote:
Originally Posted by moriandrio
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10-10-2012, 02:51 AMxXHalloweenTrixXxI rather they halt the game's release longer and make the game the best it can be (considering they have a lot to prove), rather than just rushing out the game with limited features because everyone wants to play. Enough players have an interest in vanity slots, so I don't think its a -waste- or -trivial-.Quote:
Originally Posted by moriandrio
Further customization options is never trivial considering MMORPGs is the genre where people want to distinguish themselves to be as different as possible from the 100 other clones of themselves in the world. -
10-10-2012, 04:03 AMmoriandrio
To halt the game's release to implement vanity slots would be just stupid. It is trivial there are alot important things todo they are really not one of them...
Just cause some ppl want to run around in Yukata's.... -
10-10-2012, 04:59 AMZantetsuken
SE: Vanity slots are not part of our vision for FFXIV.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Q29F_6RvJt...-i-want-it.gif -
10-10-2012, 07:13 AMxXHalloweenTrixXxShould a person even reply to you? I feel like I'm talking to a wall.Quote:
Originally Posted by moriandrio
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10-10-2012, 07:39 AMOnisakeI'm just a lowly gamer, and know little of the ways of business. but it would be in SE's best interest to put their absolutely best foot forward. the game now has more hype than it could have ever dreamed for due to the relaunch. while everyone is looking they should do something great. the game was a failure. it came back slightly. it now has the opportunity to do something completely unprecedented.Quote:
Originally Posted by moriandrio
the big things are a given. without those it is absolutely doomed to fail. this is known. no-one is going to argue that. so saying we are sacrificing any of that for a lesser concern is beyond comprehension.
but what really makes or breaks the game in the long run are the little things. Vanity slots are a big step in the right direction. if there is overwhelming feedback in the alpha/beta to add vanity slots. what then?
and what's wrong with running around in a yukata? I'd rather see someone in geta, a yukata, and tiny little back shorts than imperial dalmatica+WHM AF legs.
It's a luxury item. I agree. but luxury items are what really make one thing good and other things great.
what SE really needs to do is get it right. if that means having to slow down even though the fanboi is saying "BUT I WANNA PWAY NOOOOOOWWWW" I'm all for it.
Do we need it at launch? no. absolutely not. but should we have it 9 months from now? I think yes. we already have gear sets in ARR. it should be possible to dedicate one of these to 'vanity' gear. or have the option to set one of them to vanity gear and do a model swap for equipped gear.
We also need to be able to share gear between sets. those are the kinds of things that destroy a game in the long run. tedious things that don't make sense. a lot o fthe reasons i'm seeing are excuses to not do work. not reasons why it really shouldn't be done. -
10-10-2012, 07:56 AMNayliaI just hope that the colors look similar on various materials. I have white on my Toadskin chestpiece - which is actually dirty brown. But because my gloves are raptorskin leather, the white is blinding in comparison. I hope dye actually works to normalize coloring.Quote:
Originally Posted by Artiss2k
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10-10-2012, 08:21 AMmoriandrioNot having vanity slots doesnt destroy a game sry but thats BS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Onisake
And there is one reason why i dont want them, i just dont wanna see Rogadyn Paladins in a Yukata tanking, sry but thats something that would destroy the flair of the game. -
10-10-2012, 08:39 AMOnisakeYou call it BS, but it's still something people want. especially since we don't have proper gear sets. and the set bonuses we have are utter garbage and completely outweighed by raw stats from melding and hodge-podge gear. it's always the little things that make people quit or not bother. if you login every day and hate the way you look despite having awesome stats, you're going to get bored easier and enjoy the experience less.Quote:
Originally Posted by moriandrio
Vanity slot allows us to customize a look for our character. When you think of the hero NPCs in the game, they all have a characteristic look. it's iconic. they aren't running around in a random assortment of gear. it all matches. they have a good look. so why can't we have that? oh..because it destroys the flair. . .
As we progress in game we become more bonded with our character. liking the way we look is part of that.
Roe's in yukata's tanking is one (very bad) extreme example of how it could be abused. and how exactly does it destroy the flair? not EVERY roe pld is going to do that. and it's certainly not required. most people that play paladin like heavy armor. so they are more than likely going to wear heavy armor. You can complain all you want but it's not going to beat logic and real human behavior. -
10-10-2012, 08:47 AMChinookhttp://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/im...a/Papalymo.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Onisake
On topic: I don't care. -
10-10-2012, 04:21 PMBaxter
He's using vanity slots ;(
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10-10-2012, 05:29 PMindiraFFXIV >>> WOW clone when ARR hits. SE jumped off that bridge cuz everyone else who has a mmo did.Quote:
Originally Posted by moriandrio
there using wow's UI because its an industry standard, and thats straight out there mouth's. love it or hate it SE's focus is to please the casuals because the hardcores are playing something else. all the money is in casual's there the majority by a long haul. SE even said its going to be a fan service game. -
10-10-2012, 05:49 PMBaxterQuote:
Originally Posted by indira
I don't think casual vs hardcore has anything to do with UI reconstruction nor vanity slots. It boggles the mind why people are flat out against it. I can see not caring, but to put effort into opposing more customization options confuses me. -
10-10-2012, 06:46 PMWilksha
One big complaint i see here is resources; time to get it done. If i was the programmer for equipped gear I'd be using a class with each peace of equipped gear being held onto by that class. To add vanity slots would be as simple as adding ~15 more equip reference object for slots and have a block of code that checks is a vanity slot is being used and make that visual over what is physically equipped. But not knowing how SE has their equipment setup, it might be resource exhaustive; only if their code isn't optimized for changes like adding extra ring slots like they had planned earlier. If the code is optimized vanity slots will be easy to add.
As for the use of vanity slot, I do have to say I really want them for some gear I find visually terrible. Personally I deplore Saruoel, poofy pants, and Gaskins, the weird below the knee leathery bit. If I can show something a little bit more visually appealing to me I would jump at it. Not everyone will use it, the people that will are ones that don't like particular pieces cause of "colour limitation", hope this isn't an issue in ARR, a silly to them looking piece of "good" gear, or finally for those that just want to be fashionable, after all fashion is a reality even if some think some fashion designs are terrible. Fashion is personal taste.
If SE doesn't want to do vanity slots, they don't have to. I already got used to seeing everyone in the same gear in FFXI, before the level increase from 75. I don't NEED vanity slots, but it would be nice to have. -
10-10-2012, 07:37 PMBaxter
No one said it has to be in by launch. I think a lot of people are being shortsighted on what to expect at launch.
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10-11-2012, 12:04 AMZantetsukenI wholeheartedly agree with your first point....Quote:
Originally Posted by Onisake
The fact is, 'vanity slots' are a costly fix for a problem that doesn't exist (except in the minds of a small group of forumites.)
The new gear-set system allows you to instantly switch whatever gear you want on the fly, so you can walk around all day in your Yukata + Harlequin cap, and quickly change to your gear when you fight/craft/etc.
With this in mind, every argument for a vanity slot system can be boiled down to:
"I WANT SE TO BUILD A SYSTEM THAT WILL TURN ALL GEAR EVER CREATED INTO MERE COSTUMES JUST SO I DON'T EVER HAVE TO CHANGE OUT OF MY SWIMSUIT/YUKATA/ETC WHILE FIGHTING GARUDA."
(Face it, you could wear whatever you want for most other content)
Gear Sets in ARR will allow you to quickly change into whatever gear you like WITHOUT marginalizing all present and future gear - That should be good enough. -
10-11-2012, 01:01 AMOnisakeFact without data? no. sorry that's your opinion. Just like what i've been saying is my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zantetsuken
However I can back up with data/experience/history.
Number one complaint (for people who played the game and stuck with it, and didn't quit because it was 'too hard') of FFXI character creation: lack of customization
Number one praise for City of Heroes: complete and total customization. your appearance had nothing to do with stats. It was fun and exciting to see what people could come up with for a hero.
To really make a "great" game you need 2 things:
1) Technical and gameplay innovation.
2) High Quality Production Value.
for the first point, we're not getting a lot of that. it's SE so we know the campaign will be at least decent. (which is another big complaint for MMOs in general) but the UI and gameplay are likely going to be very similar to what else is already existing. largely because that's exactly what they said they were trying to do.
which leaves us with production value.
we're going to have houses and free companies that we can customize to a degree. we should be able to do the same thing with our gear.
it's not so much the need to customize our appearance as it is the need for the choice.
Hardcore gamers aren't going to care as much. but if they have the option they will exercise it. they also aren't likely going to be running around in swimsuits. in fact i'm near positive most people won't do this. although we might see an increase in people wearing coliseum gear, Vanya, and other visually appealing gear that we can't really use because the stats are garbage. It might happen for a little while. and you may have that one guy who's holding out because he really really like his Yukata and is emotionally attached to it. but eventually people will get bored with it and change their appearance.
Casual gamers however will flock to it like crazy. they will like playing dress up and running around with their friends killing monster their way. casual gamers hate feeling restricted and want freedom. being able to choose how you look is a good thing. there's nothing bad about having this option.
Gross exaggeration. that's like me saying everyone who argues against vanity slots boils down to saying this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zantetsuken
"I HATE CUSTOMIZATION AND WANT EVERYONE TO LOOK THE SAME BECAUSE I LIKE RODEO CLOWNS. I WANT EVERYONE TO LOOK UGLY BECAUSE THEY SHOULD FEEL BAD FOR WANTING TO BE PRETTY."
you can beat all content with AF. wearing better gear is not a requirement. it's about increasing your margin of error. why wear subpar gear and increase your chance of failure? it just doesn't make sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zantetsuken
it's not about what is required. it's about options. no-one needs relic gear. no-one needs darklight. heck you don't even need double/triple melds. but we get them anyway and strive for it.
in fact with vanity slots you can add vanity gear as rewards. yay! more useless crap to collect! and looking at how successful facebook games are. I can say with confidence people like collecting useless crap.
You can see the proof of that with people who bought Chocobo barding.
why settle for 'good enough'?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zantetsuken
that's like saying "Hey, I only need to own one pair of pants, one shirt, and one pair of shoes because it's good enough"
Everyone cares about what they look like. some care less than others, I will grant you. but we've all walked into a store. saw an article of clothing and said 'god no, I would never wear that.'
Yet it's perfectly fine to force us to wear clothing we don't' find visually appealing in a video game. >.>;;
we can just as quickly change gear with macros. in fact that's probably more efficient because you can actually share gear between gear sets without added complexity of needing aliases for gear. why not just increase the number of lines in a macro instead of adding gear sets?
oh wait. because it's easier. and adds production value. silly me.
If I had a choice between adding gear set slots or vanity slots I'd choose vanity. because macros are 'good enough' for gear swaps.
Furthermore if we're going the route of 'good enough' why do we even have more than 5 gear sets? we should all just upgrade our armor every 10 levels and then that's it. no more worries about what is best in slot. no more worries about this armor set clashing with that one. Everything is the same! so now there are no problems. I guess we can add in some additional armor past our level 50 AF set so people will keep playing.
we have multiple armor sets so we can customize ourselves and build our characters how we want to as we level. as armor during this stage is less important. but once we hit 50, we pretty much lock our appearance. this seems very backwards to me. -
10-11-2012, 01:04 AMReika
So why do we even need housing. Isn't the addition of player/company housing slowing down production of ARR? We should get the dev team to put a stop to it and focus on.... the game.
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10-11-2012, 03:24 AMZantetsuken
@Onisake
You fail to address my point.
Any player can wear whatever they want at any time -- right now (provided their jobs/classes fit the bill).
Your vanity system does nothing but allow players to engage in endgame content wearing (what is currently) garbage/underpowered gear.
The devs said its a no-go, so the onus is on you to make an extremely solid case for it (something better than variety/customization for its own sake)
@Reika
Housing adds functionality via storage, gardening, chocobo raising, as well as a bit of realism / immersion enhancment to the game. You could hardly say the same about a vanity system. -
10-11-2012, 03:33 AMDuelleNo, what would destroy the flair of the game would be seeing the return of the Optical Hat+Scorpion Harness/Haubergeon army.Quote:
Originally Posted by moriandrio
And a vanity slot system would not change that aside from giving the player an option in how they look. Gear change macros are just that, and you're attempting to present them as an alternative when it is not much of an alternative in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zantetsuken
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10-11-2012, 03:35 AMZantetsukenAs if players can't change how they look now by simply equipping a different piece of gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duelle
Also, Scorpion Harness - optical hat armies were a result of poor gear design, and AFAIK it's a problem that no longer exists in FFXI, so its a straw-man argument as far as I'm concerned. -
10-11-2012, 03:38 AMDuelleIt's not the same. Never has been and never will be. If I want to fight using a steel longsword appearance over my Ifrit's sword because I think the graphic for Ifrit's sword is ugly as hell, then I have every right to be able to do so without my performance in PvE suffering. Likewise, if I end up with a really ugly chest piece and I instead want to keep the look of my PLD AF chestpiece because I feel it better-fits my character, then I should be able to keep the appearance I like without PvE performance suffering.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zantetsuken
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10-11-2012, 03:48 AMZantetsukenWell, many of us have the 'right' to be able to look at a player and get a reasonable visual representation of the power level of their gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duelle
And the dev's agree with this.
So outside of battles you can look however you like, but while fighting, you have to wear your real gear.. Thankfully we have a wide array of viable choices for endgame gear (with more to come in ARR.) -
10-11-2012, 04:06 AMindirathis contradicts its self. you talk about realism / immersion but want to exclude it. wearing what you want is what real people do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zantetsuken
why do we even need a player creation or a possible barber at the start that takes up time adding new stuff to make your character look different, that not needed you just want to play the game right? there nothing important about how you look in game it affects nothing to play. -
10-11-2012, 04:12 AMtymora
Not into vanity slots as implemented in other games.
But I certainly don't mind vanity slots if they "add" on to existing looks...like ribbons on my tail, a half cloak on my back, a sash across my chest, a chain on my sword...etc -
10-11-2012, 04:16 AMDuelleDarklight, multi-melded cobalt gear and militia gear =/= wide array of gear. As for your first point, that's what /check is there for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zantetsuken
I'm sick of gear designs going to waste due to stats or lackthereof. FFXI suffered plenty from that, so I'm not sure why you'd want more of that here.