7.3 Hopefully the end of talking to Wuk Lamat

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Originally Posted by Atma

Sweet Baby mentioned, opinion discarded. I've seen the opinions of people who are still obsessing over that company, and none of them are positive or good.

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Exhibit A of those who lack nuance and intellect.

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Originally Posted by MartinFreeman

Exhibit A of those who lack nuance and intellect.

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Indeed - people who mention SB are Exhibit A of those lacking a lot of things...

the problem of why the expension is also hated is because of the potential it have. I don't know if I am the only one but Wuk Lamat in DT is way different then post Endwalker. she doesnt growth like any other character either other then "I love my people" like thats all there is all of her action are only for people happiness and nothing else. it isn't bad in itself but when I can describe her as people lover and nothing else I think there is a problem.

at one point to koana apologize for trying to make science prominent instead of tradition. Like yes he use science to help the people to he never pushed science into anyone. like no he did not why is he apologizing like of he was the bad guy!? the expension was made to fail and everyone saw it way faster then they expected. after a point the expression felt like a huge defence of the trans community it felt like a aganda over a game but again the community is so divided that at one point anyone who hated DT was transphobic and whatever it is now days.


Now dawntrail as everything slowly started to fall back in place is seen as bad over all. healer got Shafted so much that most have left the game all job are now more alike yet everyone fight over a dam glamour piece over trying to make the game and job unique obviously that's the problem right?

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Originally Posted by MartinFreeman

Exhibit A of those who lack nuance and intellect.

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No nuance is needed here. It's a clear tell as to whom you spend your time surrounded by and from whom you derive your opinions and worldview. None of them are the cause of, or solution to, Dawntrail's problems.

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Originally Posted by AlucaDragonheart

Judging by how angry Wuk got in the trailer, and the blood on her hands/axe, I'm pretty sure she'll have to kill the real Sphene who gets possessed by the Tiara and becomes evil.

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With the current team this is an mess up of epic proportions I could 100% see them making.

With as loved as Sphene is and how detested Wuk is, the ensuing player reaction would almost make this worth it. Yoshi PR would also respond with "we didn't know just how much you guys liked Sphene and hated Wuk! Wuk isn't bad you guys just really need to give her a chance and Sphene was always set up to be the bad guy." Then they would resurrect Sphene somehow (again) and still not understand what they did wrong.

The best part of this though is that the backlash would be so severe it may actually create the change we are desperate for, since SE would have to pull a Blizzard style reconstruction of the team to gain back customer confidence.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

With the current team this is an mess up of epic proportions I could 100% see them making.

With as loved as Sphene is and how detested Wuk is, the ensuing player reaction would almost make this worth it. Yoshi PR would also respond with "we didn't know just how much you guys liked Sphene and hated Wuk! Wuk isn't bad you guys just really need to give her a chance and Sphene was always set up to be the bad guy." Then they would resurrect Sphene somehow (again) and still not understand what they did wrong.

The best part of this though is that the backlash would be so severe it may actually create the change we are desperate for, since SE would have to pull a Blizzard style reconstruction of the team to gain back customer confidence.

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I'd be hard-pressed to believe that they didn't realize that Sphene became a fan favorite pretty rapidly. I simply cannot see them going full Sylvanas here. At least I hope not. You never go full Sylvanas.

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Originally Posted by Atma

I'd be hard-pressed to believe that they didn't realize that Sphene became a fan favorite pretty rapidly. I simply cannot see them going full Sylvanas here. At least I hope not. You never go full Sylvanas.

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They tried to sell us a bargin bin shonen manga and then tried to gaslight us into thinking it wasn't that bad and that Wuk was an under appreciated character immediately after rushing the ending of the Zodiarc saga for no reason outside of Yoshi's boredom with it. I could 100% see them using the excuse of the patch was done way in advance and couldn't be changed so they just tweaked Wuk's dialog a bit to compensate and then added an obviously rushed Sphene resurrection scene, via the power of friendship, to try to avoid most the backlash. Then make us some other excuse about whats happening going forward, but either never deliver on that promise or just do the fastest, easiest, and most basic thing they could do since they can seldom be bothered with XIV.

As you can see, my confidence in this team has fallen so far it can barely even see the light of hope anymore.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

rushing the ending of the Zodiarc saga for no reason outside of Yoshi's boredom with it

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This. This x100. Mr. Rockstar is getting bored with being saddled with XIV, he is clearly checked out of it and wanting to move on to bigger and better things, or at least different things.

I really do think he believed they cooked with XVI and he was gonna get praised as the man who not only saved XIV , but the whole damn FF franchise. He thought his ticket outta here was punched and then the tepid reaction to XVI hit and he didn't get the praise he expected. So now he's stuck, caretaker of a task he no longer has the passion to perform. And all he can do is sit on stream and play other games, hold up pieces of paper, and BS about going to concerts.

Oh, and tell YOU to go play other games also, since he can't be arsed to make his own game good anymore.

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Originally Posted by Auro_Seldaris

This. This x100. Mr. Rockstar is getting bored with being saddled with XIV, he is clearly checked out of it and wanting to move on to bigger and better things, or at least different things.

I really do think he believed they cooked with XVI and he was gonna get praised as the man who not only saved XIV , but the whole damn FF franchise. He thought his ticket outta here was punched and then the tepid reaction to XVI hit and he didn't get the praise he expected. So now he's stuck, caretaker of a task he no longer has the passion to perform. And all he can do is sit on stream and play other games, hold up pieces of paper, and BS about going to concerts.

Oh, and tell YOU to go play other games also, since he can't be arsed to make his own game good anymore.

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On this one aspect, I just want to say this.

I'm not gonna be the world's biggest Yoshi-P defender or anything, because I do think there's either apathy, not listening to what people are saying, overconfidence in his own vision, disinterest, slacking, divided attention, and likely some combination of all of that going on right now. But I do think it's important for MMO producers to tell people that it's OK to go play other games.

It's not really true in these days, but back like 5-10 years ago - the expectation was, and systems were designed to the effect of, you being required to devote yourself to them over all other games to 'keep up.' So it was natural people played FFXIV like that, when it was (for the most part, a few things notwithstanding) not designed to be that way. I personally did think "it's ok to take a break and play other games" was an important message at the time it was said.

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Originally Posted by Atma

On this one aspect, I just want to say this.

I'm not gonna be the world's biggest Yoshi-P defender or anything, because I do think there's either apathy, not listening to what people are saying, overconfidence in his own vision, disinterest, slacking, divided attention, and likely some combination of all of that going on right now. But I do think it's important for MMO producers to tell people that it's OK to go play other games.

It's not really true in these days, but back like 5-10 years ago - the expectation was, and systems were designed to the effect of, you being required to devote yourself to them over all other games to 'keep up.' So it was natural people played FFXIV like that, when it was (for the most part, a few things notwithstanding) not designed to be that way. I personally did think "it's ok to take a break and play other games" was an important message at the time it was said.

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Yes. At the time it was said. Not now.

My counter to this is that certain elements of the community use it as an excuse to deflect criticism of the team back onto YOU, the player. It's become a catch-all for excusing complacency from the dev team, excusing lazy design, or just outright getting rid of people that certain parts of the community find troublesome.

"You're just burned out/a hater/not a TRUE fan, go play other games like Yoshia said."

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Originally Posted by Auro_Seldaris

Yes. At the time it was said. Not now.

My counter to this is that certain elements of the community use it as an excuse to deflect criticism of the team back onto YOU, the player. It's become a catch-all for excusing complacency from the dev team, excusing lazy design, or just outright getting rid of people that certain parts of the community find troublesome.

"You're just burned out/a hater/not a TRUE fan, go play other games like Yoshia said."

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Counterpoint: It is also used as a criticism as if it were just said yesterday and not almost 2 and a half years ago. So that knife does cut both ways.

I mean they have a lot of work to do, but my opinions on what needs to happen to make that happen typically go against the complacent userbase. I think 8.0 needs to be a 2.0 level re-imagining of entire core systems in addition to a compelling story. Tomestone farming needs to give way to scaling equipment from dungeons with variable difficulty (mythic+, etc), the game needs to stop being 'Boss Fight Simulator', no more ..|..X..|..X..|..Z - lots of things. But this is mostly a story thread, so sticking to that I mean yeah. They need to figure out how to hit a home run, but I still haven't made a personal determination on likelihood we're going to Meracydia or through that big glowing portal for next xpac yet. Sphene and her development is a potential interesting point to me. I'm not in the 'Wuk Lamat hater' club personally.

I'm not a fan, but I also just really don't care what happens with her. I'm really more in the camp that the constant complaining about Wuk Lamat has reached the point of being far, far more annoying than going through the MSQ with Wuk Lamat at this point. They've either gotten the message or they have not... complaining about the character has long since played its course for being relevant. If any adjustments were going to be made, they've either been made. If not, I sincerely doubt current day complaining will have any impact on future patch plans.

Edit: I'd add that how people feel about Wuk Lamat is basically how I've felt about Alphinaud for about 3 expansion packs, even with him mostly being shoved into the background.

Edit #2: And don't even get me started on how Graha has just become 'food meme guy' and it will not surprise me in the slightest if in the buildup to 8.0, 80% of Graha conversation is just people caring more about what oversized food item they're going to meme him eating, because that's become more important than the character himself.

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Originally Posted by Atma

I mean they have a lot of work to do, but my opinions on what needs to happen to make that happen typically go against the complacent userbase. I think 8.0 needs to be a 2.0 level re-imagining of entire core systems in addition to a compelling story. Tomestone farming needs to give way to scaling equipment from dungeons with variable difficulty (mythic+, etc), the game needs to stop being 'Boss Fight Simulator', no more ..|..X..|..X..|..Z - lots of things. But this is mostly a story thread, so sticking to that I mean yeah. They need to figure out how to hit a home run, but I still haven't made a personal determination on likelihood we're going to Meracydia or through that big glowing portal for next xpac yet. Sphene and her development is a potential interesting point to me. I'm not in the 'Wuk Lamat hater' club personally.

I'm not a fan, but I also just really don't care what happens with her. I'm really more in the camp that the constant complaining about Wuk Lamat has reached the point of being far, far more annoying than going through the MSQ with Wuk Lamat at this point. They've either gotten the message or they have not... complaining about the character has long since played its course for being relevant. If any adjustments were going to be made, they've either been made. If not, I sincerely doubt current day complaining will have any impact on future patch plans.

Edit: I'd add that how people feel about Wuk Lamat is basically how I've felt about Alphinaud for about 3 expansion packs, even with him mostly being shoved into the background.

Edit #2: And don't even get me started on how Graha has just become 'food meme guy' and it will not surprise me in the slightest if in the buildup to 8.0, 80% of Graha conversation is just people caring more about what oversized food item they're going to meme him eating, because that's become more important than the character himself.

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Other than the fact you're talking smack about my adopted son, Alphy, I completely agree with you on all points. The changes you point out to the combat design and reward structure would be wonderful, but again it would fly in the face of those who are content for the game to stay exactly the same for eternity. I would love it if there were no tomestones ever again, no Dance Dance Revolution, adding horizontal job and gear progression... but this community would have an absolute meltdown over it. I agree it should be a total rework from the ground up. In fact, I'd argue that DT should have been, it felt like a good time for major changes in many aspects both story and gameplay, but they just... copy/pasted the same things they always do. Dungeons, and trials, and raids, and tomestones... dungeons and trials and raids and tomestones...

Llama Tea to me is just the canary in the coal mine for DT. I've said for a while that once the outrage over her finally ended, people would see that DT's problems are a lot deeper than just Garfield. Just shows that the MSQ really was the "load-bearing poster" of FFXIV.

https://i.imgur.com/HF7YdVf.gif

Also, yeah Food Cat is insufferable, please let this meme die. If I'd known that this is what he would become, I would have rather he just stayed a fancy paperweight in the Crystal Tower on Norvrandt.

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Originally Posted by Auro_Seldaris

Also, yeah Food Cat is insufferable, please let this meme die. If I'd known that this is what he would become, I would have rather he just stayed a fancy paperweight in the Crystal Tower on Norvrandt.

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It was kind of sad that we can actually point to the exact moment a character's development completely died, and who would have thought that would come in the form of a cheeseburger.

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Originally Posted by Icedbuns

The amount of people that have left or are only just maintaining a sub speaks for itself.

The negativity surrounding the game is closely tied to the story. The games doesn't stand on it's own well, not without a good story.

Hopefully this horrible self-insert fan fiction ends and we get a real vacation from this nightmare.

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I don't think it would be that simple. From the patches that came after the main story from the expansion, we see that this "self-insertion" is still present without any significant alteration. Though 7.3 would be the end of one arc, it is unlikely that these characters would not return for the stories that have yet to be told.

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Originally Posted by JMadFour

People greatly exaggerate how "bad" the story actually is.

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They really don't. FF14 sold and marketed itself on the story and quality of the writing. Just because other MMOs lack it completely doesn't give FF14 a free pass to have poor writing because those other MMOs didn't ever try to market itself on the writing.

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Originally Posted by Atma

It was kind of sad that we can actually point to the exact moment a character's development completely died, and who would have thought that would come in the form of a cheeseburger.

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Whoever started inserting their food/vore fetish into every storyline needs to be put on Wuk litter box duty. Food scenes are annoying enough at this point, but the way they eat, with the over exaggerated bites and sounds that make your spouse think you are watching something 18+ is just creepy.

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Originally Posted by TeresaFortell

I don't think it would be that simple. From the patches that came after the main story from the expansion, we see that this self-insertion is still present without any significant alteration. Though 7.3 would be the end of one arc, it is unlikely that these characters would not return for the stories that have yet to be told.

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Eh, nation leaders very rarely show up in the overarching plot once we are past 'their area.' I think people's fears of 'Wuk Lamat becoming the next scion or something' are drastically overblown.

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Originally Posted by Atma

It was kind of sad that we can actually point to the exact moment a character's development completely died, and who would have thought that would come in the form of a cheeseburger.

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He still had one moment during the End Days of Thavnair, but outside of that, a lot of the character developments and and story arcs of the scions came to a screeching halt.
Thancred: Outstayed welcome after lvl 87 in Ahm Araeng
Urianger: Had his happy ending at the end of Endwalker
Twins: Had their happy ending at the end of Endwalker
Graha Tia: Exists to fanboy over you and "Remember how cool this character once was?"
Estinien: Exists to "Remember how cool this character once was and still kinda is?"
Krile: Complete character development and backstory assassination. It's like when you have so many possibilities for the character, leaving you to guess where it could've gone, but they it's like they intentionally went out of their way to make sure she could never be relevant ever again in the space of a few minutes.
Yda/Lyse (and by extension Hien, Yugiri, and Papalymo): Stormblooded, arguably got off easy compared to Krile and whatever Wuk Lamat was supposed to be. Instead of fixing her character she got her butt glued to Ala Mhigo because of fan backlash of how poorly written and handled she was.

It's been a habit of CBU3 to just conveniently discard unfinished ideas and projects, instead of fix problems because they lack the talent or insight to understand why things didn't turn out the way they wanted, or why reception to the content, story or the game itself was luke warm at best.
Character is written poorly and widely disliked? Quietly bin them and shove them on a boat out of the story.
Content wasn't popular or people complain about it? "I guess we didn't have the resources to do a good job" / "Everything is too hard to implement" / "It's the players who are out of touch, not us" / Apologize without openly stating what they've learnt from their attempt and how they can refine and build upon it -> GO NEXT.

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Originally Posted by Atma

No nuance is needed here. It's a clear tell as to whom you spend your time surrounded by and from whom you derive your opinions and worldview. None of them are the cause of, or solution to, Dawntrail's problems.

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The only tell you're showing is your lack of intellect to be turned off by someone mentioning trigger words.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

Whoever started inserting their food/vore fetish into every storyline needs to be put on Wuk litter box duty. Food scenes are annoying enough at this point, but the way they eat, with the over exaggerated bites and sounds that make your spouse think you are watching something 18+ is just creepy.

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Reminds me of Food Wars with over-the-top food-eating scenes. It was ridiculous there, and it was ridiculous here. What is more unbelievable is that by mixing the culinary methods of Mamool Ja with meats from Xbr'aal to make xibruq pibil, we have seemingly forged a unity between the two groups. I know it was a contest, but we really could have used that opportunity to learn more in-depth as to why there were conflicts between them.

Where the heck is the "self-insert / self-insertion" argument coming from? This is a Japanese company and Wuk Lamat is a classic shonen protagonist, this has nothing to do with "self-insertion".
The problem of Wuk Lamat is that she is a stereotype (aka shonen protagonist) by definition divisive, that she don't truely grow during her story since she is already near perfect from the beginning and that the WoL has no real added value to her story, making them irrevelant in the overall story.

You aren't in a Marvel or DC comics where on the of author decided to insert a character in the story that look like them. So please, from every of my post here I'm clearly not a "Wuk Lamat" defenders, but try using your brain and your literacy if you have some instead of regurgitate sh*tty arguments you have seen in grifters videos or forums that are being repeated ad nauseam.

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Originally Posted by Paintedtarget

This is the first time in all of the years I have played FF14 I have looked forward to the .3 Patch not because I was excited for the story as I have been in the past. But to move on from that horrible character.

Here's hoping in the future we have better written and voice acted characters.

This Expansion felt like the A team went to work on FF16 and the B team gave us this mess. Hopefully going forward they can recapture the magic and move towards a brighter future.

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This sounds about right actually. It's this exact reason we got Silent Hill 4 the room and the Resident Evil 3 Remake (though SH4 The Room was still decent in several ways). Main teams do something else, a less experienced or qualified B team takes over. Disaster usually happens.

Just watched the trailer. They're killing off Y'shtola, Graha, and Krile, and replacing all of their lines with Wuk Lamat, the new Scion of the 7th Dawn who will take over as leader. The turtle kid will also be there since everyone is too stupid to understand what's happening unless he perfectly articulates it for them (and the player). Seems they did read the forums after all and realized we're all illiterates.

"I must protecc promise to speeeeeeen" no. We are not getting rid of her. Yoshi P wants us to "see her charm"

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Originally Posted by Zackneifein

Where the heck is the "self-insert / self-insertion" argument coming from? This is a Japanese company and Wuk Lamat is a classic shonen protagonist, this has nothing to do with "self-insertion".
The problem of Wuk Lamat is that she is a stereotype (aka shonen protagonist) by definition divisive, that she don't truely grow during her story since she is already near perfect from the beginning and that the WoL has no real added value to her story, making them irrevelant in the overall story.

You aren't in a Marvel or DC comics where on the of author decided to insert a character in the story that look like them. So please, from every of my post here I'm clearly not a "Wuk Lamat" defenders, but try using your brain and your literacy if you have some instead of regurgitate sh*tty arguments you have seen in grifters videos or forums that are being repeated ad nauseam.

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Self-insert doesn't just mean a character looking like a writer or artist. It also means when someone takes the character they created and inflates their importance in a story to ridiculous and illogical levels. Which is exactly what happened with Wuk Lamat.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Self-insert doesn't just mean a character looking like a writer or artist. It also means when someone takes the character they created and inflates their importance in a story to ridiculous and illogical levels. Which is exactly what happened with Wuk Lamat.

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No, a self-insert is an author that writes themselves into the story in the guise of a new character (or replacing an old one with it). It's usually as bad as fanfiction and that's litterally defined by the "self".

Wuk Lamat isn't a self-insert, it's a more complete attempt (the first one being Zero) to focus the story on one specific character entirely (probably one by expansion), because it's more and more difficult to focus the story on the WoL (because the stronger is the WoL, the more complexe it is to make it the MC) or a big cast of characters.
They tried this, because Zero was well received, but with Wuk Lamat it backfired heavily, so they are backtracking.

But it has nothing to do with "self-insert", even worse when we know for sure that the story of Dawntrail isn't the work of one single person, even if there is a leader, it was a team. All the cases of "true" self-insertion was when their was only one author, that's why I talk of comics where it happened the most.

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Originally Posted by Zackneifein

Where the heck is the "self-insert / self-insertion" argument coming from? This is a Japanese company and Wuk Lamat is a classic shonen protagonist, this has nothing to do with "self-insertion".
The problem of Wuk Lamat is that she is a stereotype (aka shonen protagonist) by definition divisive, that she don't truely grow during her story since she is already near perfect from the beginning and that the WoL has no real added value to her story, making them irrevelant in the overall story.

You aren't in a Marvel or DC comics where on the of author decided to insert a character in the story that look like them. So please, from every of my post here I'm clearly not a "Wuk Lamat" defenders, but try using your brain and your literacy if you have some instead of regurgitate sh*tty arguments you have seen in grifters videos or forums that are being repeated ad nauseam.

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Wuk Lamat is a self insert OC.

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Originally Posted by Auro_Seldaris

This started in Endwalker due to its rushed nature, there's odd pacing everywhere.

Remember how we kill Zodiark and we're barely given 10 minutes to ponder the ramifications of what just happened and what the weird voice was before LOL MOON RABBITS SO RANDOM!

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I still think this was a result of cramming two expansions into one. If they'd gone with the original Garlemald-centric plan, then Anima as a trial, followed by Mare Lamentorum as the final zone, leading to Fandaniel (perhaps as Amon the Undying) as the finale would've followed the pattern. The goofiness with the lopporitts would've been a standard x.1 patch falling action where the story is taking its breath before building up the next problem. Then we'd start seeing signs that Fandaniel's not dead yet after all, leading to the x.3 patch and the fight with Zodiarc as a closer for the story. Next, in x.4-x.5, we'd have signs of strange monsters appearing, with Vanaspati as the x.5 dungeon as the Final Days begin in earnest, setting up the next expansion.

But, since they crushed two expansions and a patch series together, everything has a weird lurching pace of either being so rushed that the story has no time to breath, or stopping dead in its tracks for something that could've been done in a third of the time (or just been a side quest, like showing the lopporitts around Sharlayan).

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

then Anima as a trial.

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This still irks me to no end. Anima is one of those aeons from FFX that is an absolute fan favorite and making her a dungeon boss instead of a full trial was just an incredibly bad idea. Then on top of it we didn't even get a good remix of the hymn of the fayth to go along with it. Imagine if they would have made ruby/emerald/diamond weapons dungeon bosses instead of trials.

I was so excited with the anima reveal, esp since the pandamonium reveal we got with it, with the chains and swinging cages, it was a perfect arena for and just screamed Anima. Even the final fight with Athena, I mean that would have been the perfect Anima insert instead of....a weird pink butterfly. When I saw her as a dungeon boss, and a dull leveling dungeon on top of it, I literally stopped shook my head and said aloud, wtf were they thinking!?

https://imgur.com/OXcp81u.png

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I have a hard time believing this wasn't written from the authors own viewpoint

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Viewpoint of what ? Wuk Lamat is just a caricatural Naruto, a stereotype that is extremely powerful and very pregnant in japanese society.

And it's not baseless when it's something nearly only used in this kind of place.

Last couple pages are full of people regurgitating a bottom of the barrel opinion they heard from a streamer with zero additional thought.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

https://imgur.com/OXcp81u.png

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The Great Serpent of Tural. Speen! Speen!

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Originally Posted by Zackneifein

Viewpoint of what ? Wuk Lamat is just a caricatural Naruto, a stereotype that is extremely powerful and very pregnant in japanese society.

And it's not baseless when it's something nearly only used in this kind of place.

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It's funny to see them go about this like that - When we have Hildibrand since ARR and its 'unique' humor, which is often making more sense if you are aware of how its portrayed in Japan.

Best what can remotely match it in the west was the Animaniacs, but that's 30+ years old now.

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Originally Posted by Icedbuns

I'm the person who said it, that's because it's on the same level of a self-insert fan fiction. I have a hard time believing this wasn't written from the authors own viewpoint.

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Meanwhile Dante's Inferno, aka The Divine Comedy, is written from Dante's actual point of view and he self-inserts himself as the main character and its also fanfiction, and yet we call that a classic and allow it to influence how we view the layers of hell.

I agree that Dawntrail's narrative pacing, moments, and oversaturation could've each been handled better. Maybe 7.3 onwards will be the higher quality that 7.2 was, or maybe not, only time will tell.

I don't know what people are excited about Wuk lamat goes? and what then, we go back to travelling with the scions who don't add anything interesting to the story? If they add a new "protagonist" character it will fall into the same error as DT made where that character has the majority of lines and interactions because we're still insistent that the scions come with us to say some one liners instead of a interesting new cast of characters.

The story cannot thrive as long as it depends on dragging along the scions, Not to say they can't make a appearances at points but the story needs a focus on New characters instead of one new character who takes up the majority of screen time because the scions don't actually add anything of relevance to any cutscene.

Wuk Lamat 100% feels like a self-insert. As someone who used to be really into that kind of fanfic (writer and reader of it for way too long) she absolutely registers as one. Her inability to fail and lore importance track, but the fact she's the both the new race and "not like other girls" by being a gigantic, muscular warrior are also less obvious call signs. It's all the type of cheap tricks we'd try use to make our self-insert "unique."

But I think one issue is that FFXIV in general feels like a self-insert story by the WoL being continuously central, and why it feels so bad to have the spotlight taken from us. Zero's plot at least expanded on the Void's lore and world building.

Generally THAT's my biggest gripe with Tural. The whole first half is supposed to be about world building, but so little of it is interesting because of the distinct lack of drama and genuine conflict. If they wanted it to feel cozy, the Rite of Succession is a terrible backdrop, and the dropkick mood swings of the dead baby cave to cowboys to Alexandria (which feels more like what we expect the story to be) is such a mess.

ALSO, they are absolutely terrified of letting the Twins, Y'shtola, and G'raha go with how historically popular they are

The only way they can redeem the story is if they let us kill Wuk.:p

Wholly different note, but a personal disappointment was that we didn't get a trial/solo instance against Thancred amd Urianger, or really any genuinely active contest against them despite the pre-expansion stuff putting emphasis on the heated rivalry we'd have (we didn't) with our fellow Scions... But Wuk Lamat got one against Bakool Ja Ja.

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Originally Posted by RedLolly

Wholly different note, but a personal disappointment was that we didn't get a trial/solo instance against Thancred amd Urianger, or really any genuinely active contest against them despite the pre-expansion stuff putting emphasis on the heated rivalry we'd have (we didn't) with our fellow Scions... But Wuk Lamat got one against Bakool Ja Ja.

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I would have enjoyed that. I am sure Thancred and Urianger would love to test themselves against the WoL even if they both know they are hopelessly outclassed. They'd still put in a good showing and it would be fun for all of them. Plus, it would be nice to see a hint of Thancred's "WoL has gone rogue" contingency plan you know he has.