So...gonna re-release previous PvP series rewards for crystals or NOT?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velthice

I personally think it's ridiculous that Ultimates, which are probably the most 'prestigious' and hyped content from both the devs' and playerbase's perspective, have all their rewards still available for people willing to put in the work for them, even though some are much MUCH easier now than they were on release, but the pvp rewards for whatever reason are just unobtainable forever. That's literally at odds with how the entire rest of the game operates.

What do the devs think the motivation of a new player (or even an old player coming back) is to try pvp when they're told that the cool armor set they saw not only isn't currently available, but will NEVER be available ever again? What is the logic?

---

It is like asking if you can get the medal for winning the world cup 1990 in 2024. That is the logic behind PvP rewards.
Would you draw the line at rank 1 housing items? If yes, why?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

It is like asking if you can get the medal for winning the world cup 1990 in 2024. That is the logic behind PvP rewards.
Would you draw the line at rank 1 housing items? If yes, why?

---

It's not a medal, I find myself not caring at all about the PvP titles that say you played good in 2021 or whatever.
This is glamour, mounts, etc in an MMORPG. Any experience with the genre should tell you these are among the most sought-after items across games. The company put resources into making them and still have those assets in the game. So, why should anyone be barred from getting them based on what time it is?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

It is like asking if you can get the medal for winning the world cup 1990 in 2024. That is the logic behind PvP rewards.
Would you draw the line at rank 1 housing items? If yes, why?

---

If I want a medal for winning the world cup, I can just buy one and pay someone to put my name on it, because there's nothing in the real world you can't get with enough effort and dosh either. But this is a video game we're talking about, and the stakes are infinitely lower

https://i.imgur.com/kq42yaz.png

As a legacy player, if they brought back all the exclusive items from 1.x back tomorrow, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest, because I was there. I have the memories. I can tell you about the dodo's in la noscea that would sleep breath you, or not being able to jump over a knee high ridge in thanalan and having to walk all the way around, or getting lost in the black shroud map and dying to a rabid lady bug. The items are immaterial. The memories are what's valuable, not the goobbue sitting in my mount tab that I never use and that more people than not have probably never seen

If you wanna tell people about what a heckin good time the feast, or heaven forbid, the fold was, and the weird things that accompanied it like for a brief time marauder being a viable pick because of the way cross class skills worked, by all means. Those are great stories to tell, and they are yours and yours alone

To add to the rarity of previous rewards - just give the buyable items a different name. Rename the original items to vintage {item name here}, or name the new items something like {item name here} replica.
That way, people that earned them back in the day can still show off their swagger by showing they have the old version, while new players are not barred from the cool glamours.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

It is like asking if you can get the medal for winning the world cup 1990 in 2024. That is the logic behind PvP rewards.
Would you draw the line at rank 1 housing items? If yes, why?

---

Irrelevant, medals are like titles or more accurately the frames, gear is a different beast.

Seems like most threads asking the devs to simply follow-up on their promise of bringing Series rewards back gets tarnished and derailed by people also wanting the Feast rewards.

XD honestly I wish they didn't. If pvp rewards really mattered to ppl why does pvp die at night ques = 30 minutes....doesn't seem like the rewards matter or why is rival wing dead at times... plus u have 4 months what are you doing that ur dodging pvp....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Picothea

It's not a medal, I find myself not caring at all about the PvP titles that say you played good in 2021 or whatever.
This is glamour, mounts, etc in an MMORPG. Any experience with the genre should tell you these are among the most sought-after items across games. The company put resources into making them and still have those assets in the game. So, why should anyone be barred from getting them based on what time it is?

---

It was a competition, if its not a medal - why only the winners get it?
They should be barred, because they didn't win it. It is PvP, you have winner and loser. It is not PvE - where everyone can be a winner. Like show me PvP modes where everyone is a winner?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Velthice

If I want a medal for winning the world cup, I can just buy one and pay someone to put my name on it, because there's nothing in the real world you can't get with enough effort and dosh either. But this is a video game we're talking about, and the stakes are infinitely lower

As a legacy player, if they brought back all the exclusive items from 1.x back tomorrow, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest,

---

You personally say the stakes are lower, which is your opinion. There are many games (and players) who do not see it that way, like e.g. WoW if you want to stay in the same genre.
Some players worked really hard to obtain some of the items, if they knew they can just get them a few years later with basically pretending to afk in frontline, why would anybody spend their time in any ranked mode again? It is already bad as it is right now.
Many care about the items, but they do not care about PvP or the players who like PvP.
I know it is difficult to accept, when the rest of the playerbase is used to getting spoonfed rewards every other patch - but guess what, it is just a video game, it doesn't matter if you can't get every item in the game. Just like I can't get every item, it is just pixels, so why bother? I can use the same arguments. It is just a memory, you lost a season and didn't get anything. Too bad.
I guess if they really want to do it, they should start chronologically then, release the legacy tattoo and chocobo for everyone. Let us see the shitstorm from that... Wanna get reminded of the legacy white raven earrings? When Yoshida had to apologize? You think they will do it again? lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Teno

Irrelevant, medals are like titles or more accurately the frames, gear is a different beast.

---

We didn't get medals. We only got gear/mount and titles. Titles that repeated every single season, not even more achievement points for getting them again. The gear was the medal.
One season we didn't even get a title. We only got the gear and trophy. We asked SE if we could get the team title because we won the team season, but they said No. And still hate them for that :P

I have seen people here on forums complain during seasons where the max rating to get top100 was gold. You could have gotten that rating as a good player in 5hrs playtime, as a bad player maybe 15hr, goldtier meant like a 36% winrate, platinum was 43%. And still they posted here silly threads about not having enough time to play ranked. Why should I care about what they want when they didn't wanna put in any effort at the time?
Do I get ultimate weapons from doing moogle events? It is just gear right? It is a different beast. So everyone should have it, if they are really good enough doesn't matter. /s
Next argument: "Even if I wanted, I couldn't today, because it was a timegated season but PvE can be done any time"
Well, you could actually want them to rank top100 again to get old rewards, which would be worth an idea?! But you see, PvP is now so casual that even the worst players perform decently well and the best players perform decently bad. It is no real competition anymore, it has become a grind. How is that equivalent?


The fault lies with SE for not making a better reward system at the time. Which many PvP players at the time encouraged them to do. Because the players knew it sucked getting place 101+ and not getting anything to show for it, not even a low tier reskin of a mount or skin, or any currency to exchange something with (it took them to add wolf collars, and now they are kinda worthless too). And we begged SE to finally do something about it, and they haven't done it for years, for over 20 seasons. And that dissatisfaction with the reward style, you want to take out on the PvP players who played at the time now. Nah, f that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aidorouge

It's certainly more than one might be willing to accept.

---

US was worse with wintrading from what I could tell. EU was almost nothing. Mostly individual players, getting removed 1 or 2 was already a big story. Let us say there are 5, you still had 95 legit players...If you go on reddit or listen to your pals who hate ranked PvP and trashtalk it, you would assume the number is 50+. They are all exaggerating or referring to US datacenters. Which boils down to SE again, why didn't the GM enforce it better and banned people faster? Who knows.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Luluya

Seems like most threads asking the devs to simply follow-up on their promise of bringing Series rewards back gets tarnished and derailed by people also wanting the Feast rewards.

---

Always.

I even support getting series rewards back because it was communicated that way from the start. And was probably lost in translation.
The opposite was communicated for feast ranking rewards, and that is why I am against changing that too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

It was a competition, if its not a medal - why only the winners get it?
They should be barred, because they didn't win it. It is PvP, you have winner and loser. It is not PvE - where everyone can be a winner. Like show me PvP modes where everyone is a winner?
[...]
Some players worked really hard to obtain some of the items, if they knew they can just get them a few years later with basically pretending to afk in frontline, why would anybody spend their time in any ranked mode again? It is already bad as it is right now.
Many care about the items, but they do not care about PvP or the players who like PvP.
I know it is difficult to accept, when the rest of the playerbase is used to getting spoonfed rewards every other patch - but guess what, it is just a video game, it doesn't matter if you can't get every item in the game. Just like I can't get every item, it is just pixels, so why bother? I can use the same arguments. It is just a memory, you lost a season and didn't get anything. Too bad.

---

Reading all this, I have to ask: Why does it matter so much to you that these items are time-sensitive and exclusive? Just to be clear, I haven't seen any person here say "we need ways to get them without winning" - it has been suggested, but not demanded. The main issue people take with this is the time-sensitive nature. If you could still earn these items, even if you have to reach victories to do so, there would be no problem here. Please argue in good faith.

Edit: Furthermore, ultimate raids and other high-end PvE content do not have limited rankings. It's not the first 100 clears who get ultimate weapons. It's anyone, anytime, no matter how old the ultimate raid is. Again, please argue in good faith.

The fixation this community has on the value of rewards and playing content for the rewards and not the actual content will never cease to amaze.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valence

The fixation this community has on the value of rewards and playing content for the rewards and not the actual content will never cease to amaze.

---

I think we're just stuck having to deal with it. I'm slowly coming to that conclusion. That is why roulettes exist. That is why Rival Wings remains dead content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Picothea

Reading all this, I have to ask: Why does it matter so much to you that these items are time-sensitive and exclusive? Just to be clear, I haven't seen any person here say "we need ways to get them without winning" - it has been suggested, but not demanded. The main issue people take with this is the time-sensitive nature. If you could still earn these items, even if you have to reach victories to do so, there would be no problem here. Please argue in good faith.

Edit: Furthermore, ultimate raids and other high-end PvE content do not have limited rankings. It's not the first 100 clears who get ultimate weapons. It's anyone, anytime, no matter how old the ultimate raid is. Again, please argue in good faith.

---

This… it’s dead content, that as far as we know is never coming back. Really the only one I’d like to see is the Lone Wolf/Pack Wolf set… with dual dyes naturally! The rest don’t really interest me. I’m not a fan of the heavy armor they’ve done for most of the series rewards either. But at any rate, it’s not without precedent for them to reuse gear pieces… the Wolf Marks sets (Republican and a few others) have already been reused.

At any rate, there needs to be more rewards that can be bought with Wolf Marks and Trophy Crystals. Something along the lines of the Universal gear, not that same style necessarily, but where there’s 5 versions of a multi-piece outfit to grind for, and now that we have dual dye channels, the different versions shouldn’t just be colors as their main difference.

I’d also like to see some rewards have multiple ways of earning them. I gave the example earlier of all the framing kits they added to the gem shops. Would be nice to be able to grind pvp for them instead of Fates, and use some of the two currencies I keep capping out on!

Disclaimer - I am not sharing their opinion 1:1, as I am in the camp of "it's fine to make replicas and make the originals stand out, maybe make replicas always available but meaningful to grind to". However, as a fellow Ranker, I can understand where they're coming from and I can offer some insight on that opinion, objectively.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Picothea

Reading all this, I have to ask: Why does it matter so much to you that these items are time-sensitive and exclusive? Just to be clear, I haven't seen any person here say "we need ways to get them without winning" - it has been suggested, but not demanded. The main issue people take with this is the time-sensitive nature. If you could still earn these items, even if you have to reach victories to do so, there would be no problem here. Please argue in good faith.

---

I'll summarize Feast rewards as such - they are not mere rewards, they are trophies visibily signifying prestige and accomplishment. They actually explained the reason for "why" the time-sensitive nature remains in place as such:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

Some players worked really hard to obtain some of the items, if they knew they can just get them a few years later with basically pretending to afk in frontline, why would anybody spend their time in any ranked mode again?

---

If I knew that top rank rewards actually would've been rereleased at some point in the future, I'd have never bothered with Feast Ranked in the first place and opted for the path of least resistence - why sweat early if everyone can have it eventually?

This is a difficult problem, because I can speak from experience, ranking Top 100 in Feast days was tough in seasons with desirable trophies (particularly gearsets), because people really gave it their best to get them; player quality and morale was HIGH despite the issues The Feast had. It's the same reason why Crystalline Conflict Ranked also basically suffers - with very minor exceptions, there is literally nothing to aim towards when playing ranked; the tier rewards outside of Crystal are paltry and repetitive, the Augmented Hellhound weapons are "so-so" and the portrait elements Top100(300) and Top30(100) are honestly a one-and-done unless you care for specific numbers on them.

In short, Ranked feels like shit because players have no incentive to be better aside from personal desire to be better. Rereleasing the Feast rewards might turn off even more players to try hard enough because "why bother".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Picothea

Edit: Furthermore, ultimate raids and other high-end PvE content do not have limited rankings. It's not the first 100 clears who get ultimate weapons. It's anyone, anytime, no matter how old the ultimate raid is. Again, please argue in good faith.

---

This argument is brought up quite a few times and quite honestly, it'll fall on deaf ears for a couple of reasons:

• High-end PVE (Savage, Ultimate) has you fight a scripted boss and perform a static dance; the challenge will never expire and the boss is not learning how to play against you. You are not fighting other players for your ultimate weapons and titles, you are only fighting your own competence against the content.
• High-end PvP (Ranked) fundamentally requires 50% of players to lose so the other half can win. The challenge here is learning to be better than your opponents, which will change with each match, let alone season or even expansion. The challenge expires as players shift out - you will never face the same toughness of opponents in seasons where the rewards were incredibly desired; if you weren't there for any reason when the best players were duking it out in those seasons to earn them, what reason other than essentially socialism and "I pay a sub and I think I deserve it anyways" do you honestly have if you are never going to face the same challenge as them?

For Top Rank rewards to make sense, there needs to be a time gate, otherwise it is no different to Wolfmark and Trophy Crystal shop items. It simply is not comparable to Ultimate Weapons in any way other than being from the highest relative content of their type (PvE and PvP).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valence

The fixation this community has on the value of rewards and playing content for the rewards and not the actual content will never cease to amaze.

---

Modern-day game design - you want your players to do something, you gotta give them their cookie for spending time on the hard-mode of choice or else they gonna play a game that will give them the cookie for playing the hard-mode of choice (and therefore not play FFXIV).

You can close your eyes and pretend it isn't there or relevant, but as we are experiencing entertainment in abundance and are short on the resource "time", we have to make decisions what to play - and as it turns out, putting a carrot on a stick works better than an empty promise and a wet handshake because "congrats you did it". See Criterion participation for that particular reason.

I'm pretty sure we both are going in circles with this.

Do people get cookies from completing I don't know, BG3 on honour mode or anything? Do people get cookies from ranking game master in SC2 or other multiplayer games? The reason I went into the Feast and tried to first see how high I could achieve casually, and then later seasons went more seriously about it, wasn't for the rewards. It's a cool cookiee but I'd have done it anyway out of curiosity and challenge, and because I wanted to like the mode. And the reason I didn't reiterate the experience in the following seasons was because no, I actually didn't like the mode that much, it was kind of dull.

It goes deeper than just cookies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Picothea

Reading all this, I have to ask: Why does it matter so much to you that these items are time-sensitive and exclusive? Just to be clear, I haven't seen any person here say "we need ways to get them without winning" - it has been suggested, but not demanded. The main issue people take with this is the time-sensitive nature. If you could still earn these items, even if you have to reach victories to do so, there would be no problem here. Please argue in good faith.

Edit: Furthermore, ultimate raids and other high-end PvE content do not have limited rankings. It's not the first 100 clears who get ultimate weapons. It's anyone, anytime, no matter how old the ultimate raid is. Again, please argue in good faith.

---

Because the time to fix it, has passed. You have a wildly different PvP game now. It is simply not comparable anymore. It has experienced massive casualization. Like I said..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

the players knew it sucked getting place 101+ and not getting anything to show for it, not even a low tier reskin of a mount or skin, or any currency to exchange something with (it took them to add wolf collars, and now they are kinda worthless too). And we begged SE to finally do something about it, and they haven't done it for years, for over 20 seasons. And that dissatisfaction with the reward style, you want to take out on the PvP players who played at the time now. Nah, f that.

---

I think it is good to have a game where some items are rare. This game has almost no rare items. Everything is obtainable fairly easy. To have a few rare items that only a few players can get, shouldn't be such an issue. But if you only played this game, and only experienced getting every item and reward as handout, if you only experienced, that you cannot lose, and that even if you lose, you get items like in PvP modes today - then sure "you" come to the conclusion that "you" should have every item in the game somehow. I think ranked PvP players got for their effort not really much to show for. We are talking over almost a decade and we have like 5 unique armor sets and 5 unique mounts total? With 2-3 reskins at least. Even the Gold Saucer got more item updates than ranked PvP.
And regarding ultimate weapons, if you want it to be fair, PvP got easier for a newbie, then you would need Ultimate to be easier for a newbie too. Make me an Ultimate where you only have 6 buttons to press and even if you wipe 50 times, you slowly get your item. That would be "fair". LOL.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

This argument is brought up quite a few times and quite honestly, it'll fall on deaf ears for a couple of reasons:

---

You misunderstood why I brought up the Ultimate comparison. It's because Commander_Justitia made a bad-faith comparison himself, asking if we should weaken its rewards by offering it in moogle treasure troves:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

Do I get ultimate weapons from doing moogle events? It is just gear right? It is a different beast. So everyone should have it, if they are really good enough doesn't matter. /s

---

Speaking of bad-faith arguments about Ultimates...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Commander_Justitia

And regarding ultimate weapons, if you want it to be fair, PvP got easier for a newbie, then you would need Ultimate to be easier for a newbie too. Make me an Ultimate where you only have 6 buttons to press and even if you wipe 50 times, you slowly get your item. That would be "fair". LOL.

---

I will simply add this person to my ignore list. Let's argue in good faith, please.

As I'd been trying to say, players here are not unwilling to play PvP. I myself never enjoy PvP, yet I have continually played it to get the rewards which I want. The only problem is time-sensitive rewards. If we have to get a "replica" version of them, that is fine by me.
Regardless of how a ranker feels, FOMO will always hurt a game in the long run. It only grants a short-term benefit of player engagement, at the cost of all future arrivals contending with the knowledge they've been barred from collecting certain rewards due to an arbitrary measure of time. For a game that has been running for over 10 years, these are dangerous notions if they continue to pile up.
If there's rewards, players will play whatever difficult content you throw at them. This is why Ultimates don't need to be nerfed, and nobody here is asking for PvP to be easier. If you build it, they will come.

On the other hand, where is the fairness in cosmetic items being locked (simply, outright locked) to 100 players per leaderboard? Do you know how many thousands of players play this game? If someone cannot even agree the quantity of a few hundred players is far too low, then I can only call them selfish and vain. I do not even know why we should give filespace on our computers to these assets if we are going to be permanently unable to obtain them and unlikely to so much as lay our eyes on them - they're not even used by NPCs, so when do we get to opt out?
But, that is just a spiteful suggestion. If we're never going to get replicas, there's my proposed compromise.

Now, wrapping up this rant because the text was too large for one post, I'd like to draw your attention to this:
https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/C..._(Accessories)

As I understand it, these accessories were once exclusive ranking rewards for the Feast, yes? And in spite of them having been available for trophy crystals for a while now, I've yet to see someone claim the sanctity of their time-gated cosmetics have been tainted.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

.....

---

Yes, thanks for explaining further.

Once again like so many years ago I present my model. Which is not that different from WoW.

You can make 3 tiers of ranked PvP rewards.

For

A) the casual PvP players, who do not really want to play Ranked - but want to have something to do
- you give them a base version of the mount/glamour that they have to painstakingly have to grind out over several weeks per item, it is a longterm reward, a punishment for not being in that season and competing in it
e.g. a token for 20k wolfmarks, you need to collect 20-50 tokens per piece to complete a set or buy a base version of a mount

B) the players that play Ranked PvP, but do no rank in the top ranks
-previously they were place101+, it might now be place301+, these players did get nothing in the past. With how the tier system works today, Crystal Tier being the new top tier, I would make a cutoff at platinum. Everyone with platinum rank or higher would get the base version immediately after season ends. These players will not have to grind the items over weeks, they can show them off directly. As extra you could make them dyeable and the ones with wolfmarks could be not. If you rank below platinum, you get tokens according to your tier. Which will make the grind less long.

C) the maniacs who played this abomination and actually ranked in the top rankings
- give them a unique version of the mount or glam that has some differences, that will set it apart from the base version. This could be particle effects, this could be added details to glam, this could be more dye options, this could be being able to glam them on every other class, while the base version can not. And if SE really wants to invest here, they could allow players to unlock e.g. new limit break animations or victory animations in PvP with that set equipped. In Guild Wars 2, if you unlock a new PvP rank, you will unlock finisher animation for killing an enemy player. And the higher you get the more awesome they look. This is horizontal progression, skills stay same, they just look cooler.
-For mounts, I like the WoW approach, on top of a bit difference in detail, they had different mount speeds, gladiator mounts were a little faster than your regular mounts. Or once again, animations. Some mounts have skills that perform an action etc. They could have made a hellhound mount howl loudly with a reddark aura around it like you know from Void Arc before the endboss, on a 10min cooldown or something. It would have set these players apart from the base version, which would not have these effects.
Making these things special, costs dev power though.

Achievement hunter would be happy, they get the same mounts, just effects are different. Glam collector are happy, they get the skin they wanted, better than not having it at all. (disregarding how many users now use mods anyway, and dont really care how they look like without mods, they could just give themselves the ranked PvP glam, like some do). And Ranked PvPers are happy, they invested time and skill, and got something to show for it. All happy.

SE did good initially with wolf collars. It was the right way. Then they devalued them by adding yet another PvP currency Trophy Crystals...
Then they added wolf collar upgraded versions, which I am happy about, I suggested it often back then. I thought they would make the upgrade with x amount wolf collars, but nope.
Wolf collar #2 - these red victory crystals that you need to upgrade the wolf collar weapons, which you only get by Crystal or top rankings. They could have just kept it at just wolf collars...without Trophy Crystals without Red Crystals...

They basically created two PvP shops for different currencies, but both do the same. You get wolfmark/trophycrystal currency for playing PvP, lose or win, doesn't matter. So why do we even need both? Why couldn't they just simply increase the wolfmark limit to 50k or something and adjust prices accordingly. And keep a way to get "token" type currency, like wolf collars, based on your ranked tier.

Because now.... They will need to add yet another currency. That does the same as wolf collars did initially.

But I assume, it is too much dev time spend on PvP for such a system. They would need to create 2-3 slightly different versions per series instead of only 1. And fixing old Feast rewards like that...where top100 on chaos was the only EU datacenter back then...It means like fixing it for a handful people that still play, possible under ten. I do not think they will want to spend hours on items like a hellhound upgrade, for a few people.

They will either just give it everyone, or will never do anything about it anymore. But both options will cause a dissatisfaction in the community.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Picothea

Now, wrapping up this rant because the text was too large for one post, I'd like to draw your attention to this:
https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/C..._(Accessories)

As I understand it, these accessories were once exclusive ranking rewards for the Feast, yes? And in spite of them having been available for trophy crystals for a while now, I've yet to see someone claim the sanctity of their time-gated cosmetics have been tainted.

---

I think the accessories are a different story
Even those who ranked hated their distribution because you were forced to either not compete or just cope with not getting color you liked and keep playing
They weren't really proper rewards but rather a meme that just got thrown at you from my perspective

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Picothea

Now, wrapping up this rant because the text was too large for one post, I'd like to draw your attention to this:
https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/C..._(Accessories)

As I understand it, these accessories were once exclusive ranking rewards for the Feast, yes? And in spite of them having been available for trophy crystals for a while now, I've yet to see someone claim the sanctity of their time-gated cosmetics have been tainted.

---

Yes, you got them based on tier ranking for that season only, they were from the very first seasons. They are even some top10 earrings, which they did not release.

I know PvP players didn't like it. Because it felt like SE is testing out the water how far they can go.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cutestfox

Even those who ranked hated their distribution because you were forced to either not compete or just cope with not getting color you liked and keep playing
They weren't really proper rewards but rather a meme that just got thrown at you from my perspective

---

This is also true. Players didn't care so much about them, but when they cared they would have liked to get all below their max tier ranking. Similar how the system is now when you get Crystal achievement you get all the below achievements too. It was sadly not like that back then. If you wanted a Bronze Wolf Achievement, you actually had to be Bronze Tier during a season. So many Top PvP players never got the title, which gave points too lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

Modern-day game design - you want your players to do something, you gotta give them their cookie for spending time on the hard-mode of choice or else they gonna play a game that will give them the cookie for playing the hard-mode of choice (and therefore not play FFXIV).

You can close your eyes and pretend it isn't there or relevant, but as we are experiencing entertainment in abundance and are short on the resource "time", we have to make decisions what to play - and as it turns out, putting a carrot on a stick works better than an empty promise and a wet handshake because "congrats you did it". See Criterion participation for that particular reason.

I'm pretty sure we both are going in circles with this.

---

I can tell you that this is not true for me. I get every season of frontlines and my trophy crystals roll over 50+ times for each series that I just convert the collars into wolf marks and buy a bunch of materia to sell on the mb. There are many folks who enjoy frontlines specifically for the quick ability to move around, come back and sit down for a match. Yeah I grinded the yoki event for that glowing ghost mount but it didn't hurt me that they increased the drop rate for players that came later, nor should it bother me on a deep level that I would actively campaign against it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gunz_Zbestest

I can tell you that this is not true for me. I get every season of frontlines and my trophy crystals roll over 50+ times for each series that I just convert the collars into wolf marks and buy a bunch of materia to sell on the mb. There are many folks who enjoy frontlines specifically for the quick ability to move around, come back and sit down for a match. Yeah I grinded the yoki event for that glowing ghost mount but it didn't hurt me that they increased the drop rate for players that came later, nor should it bother me on a deep level that I would actively campaign against it.

---

I think you missed my point a bit, but let me clarify.

Casual PvP (Frontlines, Rival Wings, Crystalline Conflict non-ranked) is doing fine rewards wise, arguably Rival Wings could simply use a Daily Challenge like Frontlines - the condition of reward incentivisation has already been checked with Wolfmarks and Trophy Crystals, among other things, as you nicely outlined.

However there was a time when the rewards were not as high and participation was low in the past.

My point more strictly refers to Ranked pvp, which gameplay wise is identical to Casual CC, but with several limitations such as player pool split based on skill tiers and progression, as well as being a generally more stressful environment than Casual CC by nature of actually staking not just your own rank progression but that of four other teammates too.

Simply put, Ranked PvP is a joke when it comes to rewards considering the limitations and hardships you are being burdened with. That was my actual point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valence

Do people get cookies from completing I don't know, BG3 on honour mode or anything? Do people get cookies from ranking game master in SC2 or other multiplayer games? The reason I went into the Feast and tried to first see how high I could achieve casually, and then later seasons went more seriously about it, wasn't for the rewards. It's a cool cookiee but I'd have done it anyway out of curiosity and challenge, and because I wanted to like the mode. And the reason I didn't reiterate the experience in the following seasons was because no, I actually didn't like the mode that much, it was kind of dull.

It goes deeper than just cookies.

---

BG3 is a better game and playing experience for most players than Crystalline Conflict in general,. BG3 is also not an MMORPG with public character progression - apples and oranges my dude. A better comparison would be World of Warcraft in general.

Also congrats, you are one of few players that are considered outliers in a statistic, glad for you that you aren't driven by rewards - it doesn't change the fact that many more aren't like you and I think you'd tell me a lie if you said you wouldn't find it nice if there was a reward for doing something you already like.

Yes the mode wasnt great - the point is, rewards drive incentive and if you can choose "activity A" or "activity B, which is just like A, but more stressful/annoying for little reason". most players will opt for activity A.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

I think you'd tell me a lie if you said you wouldn't find it nice if there was a reward for doing something you already like.

---

We need to think about the nuance in this idea, however. You're talking about rewards for playing content in a broad sense, and there's nothing wrong with that idea. FFXIV is full of rewards - you can't set foot in an ARR zone without getting achievement point progress just for mapping it, to name one of the smallest and most random implementations. In Valence's own post, they said "it's a cool cookiee but I'd have done it anyway" so yes, rewards are cool, they're not unwelcome.

But there's no reason to make those rewards be time-sensitive. In doing this, you're taking away more "cookies" than you're offering, and you're explicitly telling the latecomers they're being barred from the cookies they might want. Don't you think more players would be getting into ranked PvP right now if those rewards were still available, for one?

I'm only going to say this once, because I'm not sure why the topic is still going after all these years.

Despite the feast items being the same as your battle pass items as far as time is concern the feast items is not a FOMO reward. It is a ranking reward. Unlike the pve counterpart that has everyone just beating the mode for the rewards these items were competed for. With that said, the devs made a mistake adding mounts and glamour as a top 100 reward to begin with knowing that majority of players collects those 2 without question. They made a mistake they now have to deal with to this day. Looking at the rewards themselves, I personally feel as though they didn't really have many ideas seeing that more than half of the rewards were reskins of the original reward of that type. Should they ever decide to flip and make these rewards accessible and easy to obtain you're basically letting everyone know that you're better off not stressing yourself in rank and waiting until the season is over, much like most people do anyways when it comes to extremes, savages, and ultimates. Rank would certainly be dead because of a lack of meaningful rewards. Plates don't cut it. You may as well be putting in all of that work today to become number one just for bragging rights for the next season. Plates and titles are not comparable to the mounts that was offered. If that was the case, then we wouldn't need discord to keep Rival Wings alive in the first place. Whether you like it or not, folks aren't going to play ranked unless there's something on the line, much like the mounts and armor that shouldn't have been offered to begin with. There is people like me that can care less for a reward when jumping in. I just want to improve and keep up with the best of the best. For the most part, you need something rare that people are going to give value over in order for rank to work, because rank is all about competition and bring the best out of everyone just for the chance to prove that you're better than everyone else. No one is fighting over a participation trophy. For rank to be considered the hard version of pvp it's being treated more casual than savage, extremes, and ultimates combined.

While I can't speak for savages and ultimates, the moogle event does offer certain mounts coming from certain extremes if people want to collect them without ever visiting a single hard content. Hint hint.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mistress_Irika

the feast items is not a FOMO reward. It is a ranking reward.

---

While I agree with much of your post, this part is objectively not true, the two ideas are not mutually exclusive. It is a ranking reward, yes, and it induced FOMO in many players who learned about it. That's why this type of post keeps being made, after all - people missed out, it's a bummer, we don't want it to happen again with Series, and we'd like to have this backlog of mistakes fixed for the sake of consistency and welcoming newcomers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

BG3 is a better game and playing experience for most players than Crystalline Conflict in general,. BG3 is also not an MMORPG with public character progression - apples and oranges my dude. A better comparison would be World of Warcraft in general.

Also congrats, you are one of few players that are considered outliers in a statistic, glad for you that you aren't driven by rewards - it doesn't change the fact that many more aren't like you and I think you'd tell me a lie if you said you wouldn't find it nice if there was a reward for doing something you already like.

Yes the mode wasnt great - the point is, rewards drive incentive and if you can choose "activity A" or "activity B, which is just like A, but more stressful/annoying for little reason". most players will opt for activity A.

---

( I'm not your dude )

So because it's not a MMO by this arbitrary filter it shouldn't be comparable? What makes you think this drives an impassable wedge between both then? Judged purely on an engagement perspective, people go play games without any rewards behind more often than not, if just steam achievements. One could argue that a solo player game which has a finite game session unlike a MMO makes this different by this fact alone, which is true, but you get players that keep restarting it over and over even though it becomes a repeat because they still do find engagement in it for nothing. They want to experience different paths, they want to try them in honour mode too, could be anything. And maybe they'll come back to it in one year after not touching it for other things. I still find amusing that you consider BG3 a batter game and playing experience than CC. Perhaps then SE should strive and make their own game a better game and retain players from other things than just low hanging carrots?

When it comes to multiplayer games that actually don't have a finite session lifetime however, that difference can't even be made and I find interesting that you only chose to address the BG3 example and not the other one. Ranked players just play ranked, and even in the case of LoL, I do believe that past a point they have unlocked most stuff right? I'm not very familiar with Mobas, but do they only play for skins once they have all their heroes? Or do they play to try and go higher in ranks regardless of what they have to gain out of it? The latter is definitely the case for many multiplayer online games. They just get a neat placement at the end of the season and that's it, and they go again for the next one. They engage with the content because the content engages them and don't need a carrot to keep engaging.

You're telling me that i'm an outlier, I counter with that I'm perhaps an outlier in this very specific MMO format because MMO players are absolutely weird, but I'd argue that no in fact, it's the MMO players that are the outliers when it comes to competitive multiplayer game engagement.

Another real reason why ranked has trouble going off is because the population it reaches and attracts is way too inbred and small. Even on multiplayer games of which it's the core purpose and gameplay and not considered a side activity, they actually have about 70% or above the active player base only engaging with the co-op SC2 modes for example, and within the remainder there is a big chunk that also only touches unranked as well. That's the reality of MMO ranked pvp, it's way too niche to keep the fire burning on its own and rewards are the usual bait to ensure it does at least a little.

I specifically said that the cookiee was nice on top of it, but that's about it. I'm not masochistic enough to keep playing something I don't enjoy just because there is rewards. I find it even a little toxic as an attitude to have.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valence

So because it's not a MMO by this arbitrary filter it shouldn't be comparable? What makes you think this drives an impassable wedge between both then? Judged purely on an engagement perspective, people go play games without any rewards behind more often than not, if just steam achievements. One could argue that a solo player game which has a finite game session unlike a MMO makes this different by this fact alone, which is true, but you get players that keep restarting it over and over even though it becomes a repeat because they still do find engagement in it for nothing. They want to experience different paths, they want to try them in honour mode too, could be anything. And maybe they'll come back to it in one year after not touching it for other things. I still find amusing that you consider BG3 a batter game and playing experience than CC. Perhaps then SE should strive and make their own game a better game and retain players from other things than just low hanging carrots?

When it comes to multiplayer games that actually don't have a finite session lifetime however, that difference can't even be made and I find interesting that you only chose to address the BG3 example and not the other one. Ranked players just play ranked, and even in the case of LoL, I do believe that past a point they have unlocked most stuff right? I'm not very familiar with Mobas, but do they only play for skins once they have all their heroes? Or do they play to try and go higher in ranks regardless of what they have to gain out of it? The latter is definitely the case for many multiplayer online games. They just get a neat placement at the end of the season and that's it, and they go again for the next one. They engage with the content because the content engages them and don't need a carrot to keep engaging.

---

MMOs are designed to keep players engaged long-term through progression systems and community-driven experiences. Comparing a semi-finite, replayable game like BG3 or even ranked systems in LoL, which rely on tight and inherently engaging gameplay loops, to an MMO PvP mode doesn't work. MMOs rely on rewards to justify the significant time investment they ask of players.

Games like BG3 succeed on the strength of their narrative, mechanics, and replayability. But here's the critical difference: single-player games don’t need to sustain a player base for matchmaking or queues. Their engagement isn't tied to other players, which is why they don’t require additional incentives. Multiplayer modes, especially in MMOs, live or die by participation. Without incentives, there's a risk factor of those systems becoming barren.

As for competitive/ranked-focused games, while ranked players in LoL or SC2 (also Overwatch 2) often play for gameplay/intrinsic satisfaction, these games still use rewards—seasonal skins, exclusive badges, and events—to incentivize engagement. Without those, you’d likely see a drop in participation, particularly among less competitive players. These players are crucial for fast, smooth queues to engage with content in a timely manner. They also form the foundation that enables anyone who may want to go above and beyond to actually get to play games without excessive waiting times.

Rewards serve as an invitation to try something new, offering a nudge to explore content you might not have considered otherwise. You can't know if you'll enjoy something until you try it, and incentives can provide that initial push. Without them, many players might never even give certain activities a chance, regardless of how engaging the content might ultimately be.

Also, the reason I didn't address Starcraft 2 initially is because I forgot, jesus. Not everything is intended as cherrypicking.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valence

You're telling me that i'm an outlier, I counter with that I'm perhaps an outlier in this very specific MMO format because MMO players are absolutely weird, but I'd argue that no in fact, it's the MMO players that are the outliers when it comes to competitive multiplayer game engagement.

---

MMO players might indeed have different engagement patterns compared to players of purely competitive games, but that doesn’t make their behaviors irrelevant. MMOs have distinct designs and player motivations, often emphasizing progression, community, and time investment over purely skill-based competition. In this context, relying on rewards to drive participation isn't "weird" but a logical response in MMORPGs.

Competitive multiplayer games outside of MMOs also use rewards extensively to maintain engagement and ensure healthy matchmaking pools, so calling MMO players "outliers" misses the broader trend. Incentives aren’t an MMO-exclusive phenomenon; they’re a common tool across various (not all) gaming formats.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valence

Another real reason why ranked has trouble going off is because the population it reaches and attracts is way too inbred and small.

---

This argument seems contradictory. If the ranked player base is small and niche, it further underscores the importance of external incentives to broaden its appeal. The core gameplay of Crystalline Conflict clearly isn't the issue, as its Casual mode sees consistent activity throughout most of the day. The problem is ranked participation falling off over time, particularly in ranks without meaningful reward incentives.

Additionally, long queue times further reduce engagement, creating a feedback loop where fewer players participating leads to worse matchmaking experiences, discouraging even more players. This "Catch-22" makes active participation critical to maintaining healthy matchmaking.

If the ranked population struggles to grow, the solution isn’t to ignore or remove incentives but to enhance them to attract a more diverse player base. This approach acknowledges the systemic challenges of ranked modes without unfairly blaming core gameplay.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valence

Even on multiplayer games of which it's the core purpose and gameplay and not considered a side activity, they actually have about 70% or above the active player base only engaging with the co-op SC2 modes for example, and within the remainder there is a big chunk that also only touches unranked as well.

---

Your take actually strengthens the case for rewards as possible incentive. If 70% of players in a competitive game like Starcraft 2 prefer co-op or unranked, it's a testament to how rewards and alternative modes help sustain broader engagement. Ranked modes appeal to a specific subset of players, and incentives are a proven way to encourage more casual or less competitive players to participate, ensuring those systems remain viable, playable and active.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valence

That's the reality of MMO ranked pvp, it's way too niche to keep the fire burning on its own and rewards are the usual bait to ensure it does at least a little.

---

If ranked PvP in MMOs is inherently niche, then rewards are an effective strategy to sustain participation. Without such incentives, modes like Crystalline Conflict would likely struggle even more to retain players, let alone attract new ones. Rewards aren't just "bait"; they’re an integral part of modern game design to ensure accessibility and engagement across different player demographics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valence

I specifically said that the cookiee was nice on top of it, but that's about it. I'm not masochistic enough to keep playing something I don't enjoy just because there is rewards. I find it even a little toxic as an attitude to have.

---

Well, good for you I guess. However, rewards aren’t designed to compel players into "toxic" engagement—they’re designed to lower the barrier to entry and provide a sense of progression or recognition. Many players don’t approach games with the same mindset and may need external motivators to engage with or even try certain content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

...

---

Ok, lots of talk of "rewards" again, which nobody was arguing against. I still don't see why those rewards need to be time-sensitive or gated to an extremely small percentage of the game's playercount by artificially limited numbers? I agree with Valence that the solution isn't to patch up an underperforming gamemode with rewards, they should work on making the gamemode more appealing in the first place.

And again, keep your medals and badges and titles and achievements, people aren't interested in those. It's just the items that need to be freed up, stuff taking up space on our hard drives which serve no purpose. You could play this game for three-thousand nine-hundred hours and notice maybe 2 Feast outfits on other players (my situation). For all the repetitive arguing about it, I've yet to see any reason why FFXIV should do this 1 reward distribution in such a different fashion to the entire rest of the game, or why it should be more exclusive than ultimate raids, as if the gamemode would implode otherwise. I have friends who are still doing Stormblood ultimates. Again - if you build it, they will come.

Edit: I'll also add my own perspective for clarity: If the rewards hadn't been time-sensitive, I would be playing the darn ranked gamemode. But I'm turned away because forum discussions have weirdos talking about "punishments" against players for not meeting their standards, and insisting they want to keep videogame cosmetics permanently exclusive. It's similar to a child that won't share a toy, but to be more accurate, it's a child that won't let others have the same model of toy either. At the end of the day, this is a videogame for people as young as 13 years old, we're not talking about sophisticated adult sports here.

Edit 2: When you were talking about Starcraft's seasonal skins, did you mean the old ones that have since been added to the store, so you can buy them with no time limit? Sure, I'd be satisfied if they would at least put the Feast items on the shop, that's one possible solution, wink wink.

"If you build it, they will come" Doesn't work when you build an empty storefront that offers ugly weapons for a high price (The price being time you're investing into earning Commendation Crystals.)

I do not see any reason to participate in Ranked CC. I don't like the weapons, I don't care about titles, or adventure plate frames. The mode offers me nothing, so I do not participate. This is the mindset of an NA player that can be applied to literally any piece of content to explain why we don't bother putting effort into content we deem a waste of time.

If you want to drive people to play a game mode, it needs to offer compensation for the time invested. Give us Tomestone Ilvl gear, Give us unique sexy rewards that appeals to our vain desire to flex on those beneath us. The early FoMo PvP sets would have been perfect for this purpose, very clearly by how many people are asking for them to come back. They should come back. (As was promised long ago, without a timeframe as to just when they would return.) Feast gear however I do not believe should make a return, unless the Feast itself makes a comeback. But knowing SE, anything they bring back will be brought back in the most insulting manner possiblem, like perhaps throwing the old Feast sets up for wolf marks, or crystals, while making the FoMo sets a hard and long grind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Picothea

[...]

---

Im sorry I am going so in-depth about this, but I'm not going unchallenged when discussing whether or not rewards matter for player participation - sorry if I am not giving full thought to your posts in the meantime.

But to your points - again, I am not in the position of thinking they shouldnt return, at least not the original sets - as I said many times (and I am really trying to make my points clear), replicas (functionally identical in everything except name) are completely okay. However, I think it is a weird take to complain about the underperformance of a gamemode (Ranked) and trying to look for reasons to anything but rewards, when Casual mode is very much active - meaning the core gameplay is at least in a playable state where players interact with it. Could it use improvements? Absolutely could core gameplay be improved upon. Is it the only issue? No, certainly not.

If I argue "why" the FOMO exists, its because of devil's advocacy. I do not agree with it from a personal point of view. I think the reward structure should've never been as strict as it is, but hindsight helps little in the present.

To your Edit 1 - I can see why and I think largely, the reward pool for ranked simply is awful and it helps absolutely nothing that certain things are time-sensitive (or at least used to be).
To your Edit 2 - sort of. Obviously the monetization structure definitely means they might end up on the store there, so it would not need to be the same in FFXIV (lol Mogstation Feast armour on top of sub, please no). I personally think allowing them to be reobtained for an adequate and fitting grind (not grindy, but not essentially free either, as an accomplishment for sticking around) is a good way to go about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Picothea

While I agree with much of your post, this part is objectively not true, the two ideas are not mutually exclusive. It is a ranking reward, yes, and it induced FOMO in many players who learned about it. That's why this type of post keeps being made, after all - people missed out, it's a bummer, we don't want it to happen again with Series, and we'd like to have this backlog of mistakes fixed for the sake of consistency and welcoming newcomers.

---

You have newcomers unable to access rival wings because everyone that played before has... *sigh*
Adding those rewards fixes things for everyone that wants them. It doesn't fix rank however. I would argue that rank would get slightly worse while casual sees a ton of activity. It is a solution that works in the short term but backfires in the long term. Everyone plays and grabs the rewards. Now what? Rank already has nothing exclusive. Are we supposed to continue in that direction? If so, I see no hope for rank. It's already bad enough we're letting people ride to platinum while actively punishing those below that rank just to keep low rank queues going.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mistress_Irika

You have newcomers unable to access rival wings because everyone that played before has... *sigh*
Adding those rewards fixes things for everyone that wants them. It doesn't fix rank however. I would argue that rank would get slightly worse while casual sees a ton of activity. It is a solution that works in the short term but backfires in the long term. Everyone plays and grabs the rewards. Now what? Rank already has nothing exclusive. Are we supposed to continue in that direction? If so, I see no hope for rank. It's already bad enough we're letting people ride to platinum while actively punishing those below that rank just to keep low rank queues going.

---

Damn, someone caring more about the state of the PvP ranked mode itself, than the 3 pixels tied to it. How refreshing. You will still will fall on deaf ears, they want "item item item now and always for everyone, because f PvP ranked"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

To your Edit 2 - sort of. Obviously the monetization structure definitely means they might end up on the store there, so it would not need to be the same in FFXIV (lol Mogstation Feast armour on top of sub, please no

---

Please 500$ a seasonal reward, would support. Gives my account more value. ✌������ You will see even more PvP vets selling their accounts than they are already doing. Of course I would never do such a thing. I only buy rank1 trophies with gil if somebody wants to sell them again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

MMOs are designed to keep players engaged long-term through progression systems and community-driven experiences. Comparing a semi-finite, replayable game like BG3 or even ranked systems in LoL, which rely on tight and inherently engaging gameplay loops, to an MMO PvP mode doesn't work. MMOs rely on rewards to justify the significant time investment they ask of players.

Games like BG3 succeed on the strength of their narrative, mechanics, and replayability. But here's the critical difference: single-player games don’t need to sustain a player base for matchmaking or queues. Their engagement isn't tied to other players, which is why they don’t require additional incentives. Multiplayer modes, especially in MMOs, live or die by participation. Without incentives, there's a risk factor of those systems becoming barren.

As for competitive/ranked-focused games, while ranked players in LoL or SC2 (also Overwatch 2) often play for gameplay/intrinsic satisfaction, these games still use rewards—seasonal skins, exclusive badges, and events—to incentivize engagement. Without those, you’d likely see a drop in participation, particularly among less competitive players. These players are crucial for fast, smooth queues to engage with content in a timely manner. They also form the foundation that enables anyone who may want to go above and beyond to actually get to play games without excessive waiting times.

Rewards serve as an invitation to try something new, offering a nudge to explore content you might not have considered otherwise. You can't know if you'll enjoy something until you try it, and incentives can provide that initial push. Without them, many players might never even give certain activities a chance, regardless of how engaging the content might ultimately be.

Also, the reason I didn't address Starcraft 2 initially is because I forgot, jesus. Not everything is intended as cherrypicking.

---

I do not disagree and never disagreed with the idea that rewards provide additional incentives. See my first comment on a cookie always being a nice addition. You told it yourself however, players in multiplayers games are engaged by engaging gameplay loops, and even without rewards they'd still work great. Well, then, where are our own engaging gameplay loops? I do think CC is decently good at this though, which leaves the player base, which I do feel is inherently reward driven, which was my first and unique point really. I never intended to argue AGAINST the notion of cookies and rewards. I just sighed at MMO players (and I've been playing MMOs for a while so that also makes me one of them). If it takes rewards for the modes to work, and exclusive trophies to further attract people, then so be it. I'll keep my own opinions about that kind of mindset to myself in the future even if I do find it very pavlovian.

The argument isn't contradictory and I do agree that adding more rewards will by necessity attract more players to make the player pool less inbred. Once again, not arguing and never arguing against the lack of rewards. If anything, this tends to counter your own arguments about keeping some rewards exclusive if it proves to attract more players, and less hardcore players to try their luck at ranked or even just pvp. Casual mode right now seems pretty healthy on its own to be honest, which is a mixture of crystal and wolf collar/marks rewards but also the mode itself, else they'd just play FL.

The case of SC2 mainly illustrates that pvp, especially 1v1, doesn't attract a big part of any playerbase even for pvp centric games. And once more, this is not a case I made against rewards.


Edit: to add onto incentives since ranked participation is a problem, I've actually advocated for a complete merge of casual and ranked modes in the past, with caveats, where only you can see your ELO/MMR until you get high enough in ELO, but therefore keeping a lot of the casual base casual, and still providing a little better matchmaking for skill levels. This on its own would probably naturally push casuals that do perform well to climb up and actually perhaps give a try to the ranked mode. You could even imagine an opt-in / opt-out toggle that hides ELO and league for players that perform well but still dont want to engage with the ranked ladder competition, and they'd not appear in the leaderboards either. I'm sure there is flaws to such a system perhaps, but I feel it could potentially be a good way to sustain queues with bodies without flustering casuals either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Archeron

"If you build it, they will come" Doesn't work when you build an empty storefront that offers ugly weapons for a high price (The price being time you're investing into earning Commendation Crystals.)

I do not see any reason to participate in Ranked CC. I don't like the weapons, I don't care about titles, or adventure plate frames. The mode offers me nothing, so I do not participate. This is the mindset of an NA player that can be applied to literally any piece of content to explain why we don't bother putting effort into content we deem a waste of time.

If you want to drive people to play a game mode, it needs to offer compensation for the time invested. Give us Tomestone Ilvl gear, Give us unique sexy rewards that appeals to our vain desire to flex on those beneath us. The early FoMo PvP sets would have been perfect for this purpose, very clearly by how many people are asking for them to come back. They should come back. (As was promised long ago, without a timeframe as to just when they would return.) Feast gear however I do not believe should make a return, unless the Feast itself makes a comeback. But knowing SE, anything they bring back will be brought back in the most insulting manner possiblem, like perhaps throwing the old Feast sets up for wolf marks, or crystals, while making the FoMo sets a hard and long grind.

---

If you don't see any rewards for you and that the content isn't for you either, then don't participate as you say if you don't like it.

It's frankly stunning to read that kind of takes when on the other hand in FL threads you have people complaining about "casual bots" just being there for the xp rewards and polluting a mode they don't even like doing or put effort into. I'm not sure ranked CC would benefit that much from a flood of uninterested players that are just there for the rewards either. As for those that would tryhard more if we take into account top ranking rewards, then it would just introduce more toxicity than there currently is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valence

[essentially entire post]

---

Fair enough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

[...]

---

I'm also sorry if my own posts have been showing my frustration in the meantime. There are certain other people who say baffling things whenever the topic comes up, and it makes getting to the honest conversations a slog.