Relic Weapons-Broken Promises

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Originally Posted by Sylkis

They would have to make bloodthirst and healer's hand meldable to swords, which affects other meldable swords.


yes, except people WILL buy at ridiculous price.

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SE can make it to hand over those materia, let Gerolt 'double meld' for u and fixed % no matter which T4 u use.

Double Meld is a good step - NOTHING of that besides the 100k/50k item form the Hamlet NPCs needs to be bought, you just have to work for it. You don't have a Miner? Well someone you do Hamlet with should. This quest isn't designed for soloplayers, it is way easier to overcome with a nice 8-man-party with people helping each other out.

The only part i dislike about this is the usage of the same materia on two jobs - PLD and BRD definately have a disadvantage here. Give them some easy materia to compensate that with 1.23 plz.

I'd rather turn in 1k tokens. but I think it would be cool to keep the quest also. hell, give the rich quest addicts a +1 wep, and token bums the regular one. that way the questies can still be elite and hardcore cool.

I wouldn't be bothered by it even if the materia was 5m a pop if success wasn't random.

I just like knowing my effort isn't going to waste.

I'm weird like that.



Then again, I can just buy the weapon/equipment... Oh well lol

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Originally Posted by Arkine

I wouldn't be bothered by it even if the materia was 5m a pop if success wasn't random.

I just like knowing my effort isn't going to waste.

I'm weird like that.



Then again, I can just buy the weapon/equipment... Oh well lol

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30-40M ur effort wont be wasted :)

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Originally Posted by fusional

Literally all they have to do to correct this is introduce an NPC which sells the materia at a reasonable price- Which could be 500k each and still be much better than the way it is now.

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There are already NPC selling Materia. But not for gil. The Materia IV cost 84k guildmarks I think. The problem is that we can't earn guildmarks anymore. SE could make it that we can earn guildmarks again. Not with a high rate like it was before it vanished, but with the low rate it has in the beginning of the game (a leve with guildmarks once in a week).

Noone is asking for the quest to get easier..its just a simple discussion on the current relic quest..

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Originally Posted by Felis

There are already NPC selling Materia. But not for gil. The Materia IV cost 84k guildmarks I think. The problem is that we can't earn guildmarks anymore. SE could make it that we can earn guildmarks again. Not with a high rate like it was before it vanished, but with the low rate it has in the beginning of the game (a leve with guildmarks once in a week).

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you're missing the point. having materia purchasable with gil via NPC removes gil from the economy and curbs both artificial and natural inflation. making the guild marks system fully functional for buying materia might save a person money, but that's all it does. it does nothing to regulate the price of materia, and in the event they sell the materia it again only redistributes gil rather than removing it from circulation. this does nothing to solve inflation.

I honestly don't care about the quest I don't think any of the weps are worth my time. esp since i want the mnk one the most.

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Originally Posted by Firon

I honestly don't care about the quest I don't think any of the weps are worth my time. esp since i want the mnk one the most.

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higher base damage, higher dps, +60 attack, longer fists uptime and extra shoulder tackle damage is nothing to sneeze at if you care about performance. it's not magically going to increase your dps by 50, but it will likely raise your dps ceiling by 5-10, if not more pending the rest of your gear.

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Originally Posted by fusional

higher base damage, higher dps, +60 attack, longer fists uptime and extra shoulder tackle damage is nothing to sneeze at if you care about performance. it's not magically going to increase your dps by 50, but it will likely raise your dps ceiling by 5-10, if not more pending the rest of your gear.

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I agree still don't think it's worth my time. Not enough improvement for me honestly, I don't mind the work, I just feel like they are very underwhelming.

This mentality of people wanting things handed to them so quickly is really getting ridiculous. Come on I know this isn't XI, but it took longer to farm for a Haubergeon in XI than it takes to get a relic here. Are you really going to complain because something takes more than 2 weeks of effort?

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

Not one of this again.. and 30m isn't even hard to make, it's for relic not for pizza.

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dunno about your server but on mine it is, everyones undercut to the point your better off npc'ing all your items rather than sell them.

In XI relics were roughly 200M (currency, assuming you didn't farm them yourself) plus you had to put in a lot of work farming items you couldn't just purchase. Here a relic costs you ~20-60M (assuming you don't farm the mats yourself and just buy double melded weapon + currency) and you have to do a few fights. Nothing is worth changing on XIV relic quests, it's already a walk in the park.

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Originally Posted by Jekyll

In XI relics were roughly 200M (currency, assuming you didn't farm them yourself) plus you had to put in a lot of work farming items you couldn't just purchase. Here a relic costs you ~20-60M (assuming you don't farm the mats yourself and just buy double melded weapon + currency) and you have to do a few fights. Nothing is worth changing on XIV relic quests, it's already a walk in the park.

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Exactly, and 200M is probably a low estimate. Not to mention that its so much easier to earn gil in XIV. Earning 1M in XI probably takes as long as earning 10 in XIV.

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Originally Posted by Grimwald

Asian MMOs always do horrible systems like these. Ragnarok Online did it, Aion did it, FFXIV does it, TERA did it as well.

Edit: And they're all dead, F2P or ancient.

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RO is far from dead.

Aion died for other reasons.

Tera died because it was trying to be too western rather than just sticking to it's roots. Seriously, in Korea the main gripes were: 1. It was too western designed. 2. It had lack of end-game content. 3. It's too fast, as in you can finish the damn game very quickly unless you try for the high tier armor.

XIV died because it was broken and they ignored every single aspect of XI rather than building off of it. This is why Lineage II succeeded, because it didn't ignore what it's predecessor did and became a "better" game for back then. RO was the most popular MMO for a long time.

I'm surprised you didn't throw in Maplestory with that logic, it had worse grinds for certain things yet it topped the charts until they started fucking it up.

You forgot to mention SWTOR and Rift dying off too.

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Originally Posted by Firon

I agree still don't think it's worth my time. Not enough improvement for me honestly, I don't mind the work, I just feel like they are very underwhelming.

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I feel same way. They don't look amazing to me nor are the stats worth it. I'll wait for legendary lol.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

RO is far from dead.

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I have to say as unbalanced as that game was, along with terrible RNG.

War of Emperium is by far the most fun guild siege i have ever played in MMO career, i have never spent so much time farming 0.1% droprate crap to improve my character, spent so much time farming supplies for WoE for nothing but just for the enjoyment of the war..

WoE was pretty damn awesome, which is why I get depressed that newer MMOs can't get it right. It's either fun for all of 10 minutes after you gain everything or it's fun the first time then it's forgotten content.

WoE was always fun to me..I didn't mind drop rates because honestly, a lot of things in RO was just fun to do, just avoid Shura mnk/champs and you were set.

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Originally Posted by Babydoll

I feel same way. They don't look amazing to me nor are the stats worth it. I'll wait for legendary lol.

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Man I hope legendary weapons require relics :)

Relic is for the hardcore, not the casual. Get over it. You can easily make 1m+ a day if you don't feel like putting in the time to craft your own weapon and spiritbond your own materia.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

RO is far from dead.

Aion died for other reasons.

Tera died because it was trying to be too western rather than just sticking to it's roots. Seriously, in Korea the main gripes were: 1. It was too western designed. 2. It had lack of end-game content. 3. It's too fast, as in you can finish the damn game very quickly unless you try for the high tier armor.

XIV died because it was broken and they ignored every single aspect of XI rather than building off of it. This is why Lineage II succeeded, because it didn't ignore what it's predecessor did and became a "better" game for back then. RO was the most popular MMO for a long time.

I'm surprised you didn't throw in Maplestory with that logic, it had worse grinds for certain things yet it topped the charts until they started fucking it up.

You forgot to mention SWTOR and Rift dying off too.

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RO is long dead. It's F2P with a cash shop now, and has been for like 3 years now.

SWTOR and Rift are Western MMOs and are dying for completely different reasons.

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Originally Posted by Grimwald

RO is long dead. It's F2P with a cash shop now, and has been for like 3 years now.

SWTOR and Rift are Western MMOs and are dying for completely different reasons.

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All MMOs die for their own reasons, not because they're Asian or Western. Tera's case isn't because of the game largely as it's a different style, it's because of lack of content (universal death kiss) and trying to design it to match western MMOs, which koreans don't care too much for, which is exactly why Tera is doing ok in NA/EU.

Lots of MMOs went F2P with a cashshop even when they weren't dying because it attracts more people "free MMO? fuck yeah GW2 bring it on!" because gamers of this generation have proven they're more than willing to waste money on standard items and features in a game via DLC/Cashshop..companies see $$ signs.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

I have to say as unbalanced as that game was, along with terrible RNG.

War of Emperium is by far the most fun guild siege i have ever played in MMO career, i have never spent so much time farming 0.1% droprate crap to improve my character, spent so much time farming supplies for WoE for nothing but just for the enjoyment of the war..

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Funny thing is that I had no issues killing stuff in RO waiting for a damn card to drop, yet here in XIV I get bored in 20 minutes by just trying to get Karakul Fleece. At least farming mats from mobs was somewhat fun in RO.

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Originally Posted by Wyyote

Man I hope legendary weapons require relics :)

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Haha that would be ironic!

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Originally Posted by Atomisk

Relic is for the hardcore, not the casual. Get over it. You can easily make 1m+ a day if you don't feel like putting in the time to craft your own weapon and spiritbond your own materia.

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relic is for me. i have it. i'm hardcore. i'm getting more.

the current use of materia is still stupid and unbalanced. it's poor design.

get over it.

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Originally Posted by Jekyll

In XI relics were roughly 200M (currency, assuming you didn't farm them yourself) plus you had to put in a lot of work farming items you couldn't just purchase. Here a relic costs you ~20-60M (assuming you don't farm the mats yourself and just buy double melded weapon + currency) and you have to do a few fights. Nothing is worth changing on XIV relic quests, it's already a walk in the park.

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the examples aren't equivocal. in XI, relics blew everything else out of the water by a very large margin and were far and away the best weapons you could get for *years*

in XIV, the margin is slight. they're essentially only as much of an upgrade over garuda weapons as garuda weapons are over moogle weapons. it's a tiny step forward. comparing the two is silly.

and why are so many people who haven't made any progress on relic saying it's so easy? i'm not about to call it the hardest thing on earth, but do you have any experience with this at all? you do realize how few NA LSs have relic at this point, yes? no? o.O

seriously, you guys. if relic is such a walk in the park- where's yours?

Not to side track

(Totally agree that Double meld portion of relic is TERRIBLY balanced and needs to be re-worked)

But Verily, have any tips for Ifrit Extreme? Set-up, gear or skillwise? Besides the obvious "Don't mess up!" haha

The point of relics is not for everyone to get them. Sure if it means only the no lifes and rich people get them, then deal with it. Your not hardcore enough to look past the gil to make it, then you shouldnt get the strongest weapon in the game. Tired of people bitching about how the whole server cant get a relic. Some should be more expensive and harder to get, because some are just flat out better then others. THIS IS THE STRONGEST WEAPON IN THE GAME, AND YOUR COMPLAINING THAT YOU HAVENT GOTTEN IT IN LESS THEN 60 DAYS! Shut up

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Originally Posted by Quatre

Not to side track

(Totally agree that Double meld portion of relic is TERRIBLY balanced and needs to be re-worked)

But Verily, have any tips for Ifrit Extreme? Set-up, gear or skillwise? Besides the obvious "Don't mess up!" haha

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you can run it with a lot of different setups. some people use mostly monk dps for fists of wind to help dodge better, some people go heavy on warriors due to the huge range of their aoe, we use only 1 warrior and otherwise stack dragoons for their good single target and great aoe. whatever party composition you use, just make sure you're able to break at least 1 horn or ifrit can fill the entire arena with plumes and you'll die.

assuming you're breaking at least one horn, the rest of the fight is just about avoiding damage and burning down nails.

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Originally Posted by nvidianello

THIS IS THE STRONGEST WEAPON IN THE GAME, AND YOUR COMPLAINING THAT YOU HAVENT GOTTEN IT IN LESS THEN 60 DAYS! Shut up

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actually only takes about a week per relic if you're diligent. and no, i'm complaining that the way they're using materia is stupid. i've provided a fairly detailed analysis of why, too. rather than just rehashing everything everyone else is saying, why don't you address my points about economy, inflation, materia rarity and gil sinks?

Sorry im just tiredo f this same old complaining about relics. They are really not even hard to get. Especially after you get your first one. The gil sink is important...we are still inflated. The undercutting is helpping us get to a regular economy. And I fear that in 2.0 there is going to be a huge lack of gil in the market...this is why im saving alot before that happens :D

So basically in this thread we call yoshida and the other devs liars and promise breakers because they said they would listen to feedback but they just wont give us every little thing from our miles long "Dear Santa Yoshi-p" list?

Seems about right...

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Originally Posted by fusional

relic is for me. i have it. i'm hardcore. i'm getting more.

the current use of materia is still stupid and unbalanced. it's poor design.

get over it.



the examples aren't equivocal. in XI, relics blew everything else out of the water by a very large margin and were far and away the best weapons you could get for *years*

in XIV, the margin is slight. they're essentially only as much of an upgrade over garuda weapons as garuda weapons are over moogle weapons. it's a tiny step forward. comparing the two is silly.

and why are so many people who haven't made any progress on relic saying it's so easy? i'm not about to call it the hardest thing on earth, but do you have any experience with this at all? you do realize how few NA LSs have relic at this point, yes? no? o.O

seriously, you guys. if relic is such a walk in the park- where's yours?

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Figured that would be the best argument anyone would have at this point. Don't worry, I will have it. I will screenshot it. I will show you. Mark this day. I've already got my double melded weapon and are almost done with the seal stage, which is easily the "hardest" part due to it's longetivity. Also, no, relics in XI didn't blow anything else in XI out of the water. I HAD one of those too when they were "the best weapons you could get for years" (It won't take long searching my name in FFXIAH to see that).

TL;DR: Quest is too easy. Will have a relic. Stop spending time QQ'ing and more time working torward it (or your 2nd/3rd). XI relics were not fantastic, and neither are the ones here.

This is a MMORPG after WoW dang't, dont you ppl understand that MMORPGs are suppose to be EASY, if I can't install this game and within the first 10 minutes of playing have every single job at max lv. and every single item in the game this is fail game. In short im suppose to be able to play this game and within the first 10 minutes be god.

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Originally Posted by nvidianello

The point of relics is not for everyone to get them. Sure if it means only the no lifes and rich people get them, then deal with it. Your not hardcore enough to look past the gil to make it, then you shouldnt get the strongest weapon in the game. Tired of people bitching about how the whole server cant get a relic. Some should be more expensive and harder to get, because some are just flat out better then others. THIS IS THE STRONGEST WEAPON IN THE GAME, AND YOUR COMPLAINING THAT YOU HAVENT GOTTEN IT IN LESS THEN 60 DAYS! Shut up

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But.. everyone should have a chance to get artifact weapons. :Q

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Originally Posted by Yucie

But.. everyone should have a chance to get artifact weapons. :Q

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Yes and No.

There should be a way for someone who cannot log in 5 nights a week for hours on end and therefore cannot get a ls that does hardcore raids to get a decent weapon that is not going to get them excluded from a large portion of the game.

We are seeing this in xi right now. DD(empy only) <can I have it>

Some ppl want to play the game and just cannot find a ls that will take them due to the fact they cannot run 5 nights a week or they are the very last person to get their weapon. They also cannot get into any content that you can do without a ls (again using xi as example...legion, voidwatch, nyzul isle, assault, limbus, einherjar, list goes on) cause they just don't have the time to spend on it and they dont want to take a year or two to farm it up when they can so they can enjoy other content that will be mostly abandoned and just in time to start creating the next ultimate weapon, two years later rinse and repeat.

They should have an option that doesnt require "hardcore" dedication. If you can only play a few hours a day a couple days a week you should have an option so you can get into other content (once we get it anyway). There should be difficulty in obtaining a weapons if you want to put time into into it, but the way it is right now in both xi and xiv leaves alot of ppl in the dust and causes alot of ppl to just give up. The player base could be alot bigger if they gave us more options.

Then you have the ppl who can spend alot of time on a weapon and they exclude other players from joining in due to lack of the top of the top gear and they tell them to f* off or to stop their QQ

Just because someone cannot dedicate 40 hrs a week to the game doesnt mean they should be excluded and thats what happens due to the community attitudes as a whole. SE should do their part to remedy this somehow and tell the elitests to f* off for a change. They arent paying any more than the part timers so its not like their money is more valuable and as a whole they could probably get more subscriptions if they would cater to all and not just the full time gamers.

Just my 2 cents

Just want to say, I know someone who went 1/12 on Sarnga. And then someone else who is 2/4 on rampager + Mailbreaker. go RNG.

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Originally Posted by Norack

This is a MMORPG after WoW dang't, dont you ppl understand that MMORPGs are suppose to be EASY, if I can't install this game and within the first 10 minutes of playing have every single job at max lv. and every single item in the game this is fail game. In short im suppose to be able to play this game and within the first 10 minutes be god.

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I don't think there's a single post in this thread asking for the quest to be easier. Most of the complains about the quest come from people who can't get past seals + double meld, and not because they aren't "hardcore" just (I'm assuming) because they haven't been lucky. I only know a few who got past the meld, and they were lucky (1-2 tries). Sure there's also the "buy it pre-melded" way but if you say that's too expensive then people get angry and tell you to make it yourself and it's a funny cycle all around.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

Just my 2 cents

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And that's why we have the RNG on most content, because someone who plays a lot (in theory) should have better chances, but at the same time someone who doesn't play that much still has the same opportunity at getting loot/etc in the same run as someone who has been doing it all week long.

As for the relics, once you get past the seals + double meld most of the relic quest have some form of progression-based content (even the speedruns since you have to get better each time until you get beat it)

This thread is evidence that SE effectively divided the community with these relics. Instead of timing them properly like they did with the relics in FFXI they rushed to get these out somewhat haphazardly in order to keep people busy until 2.0 because they probably realized they didn't have enough content planned to keep the subscribers until 2.0.

Ever since Hamlet and the relics were released, there have been more flamewars and elite vs casual threads than ever. The forums have been terrible over the past 2 months. It's not a coincidence that those who wanted them have them and are closing in on #3 and 4 while some Japanese players are closing in on 5ish. By my estimation those who want them all should have them by the end of August/September right before servers go down. Just as SE planned.

I would have preferred these to have been released at or a few months after 2.0 as there would have been better content to implement them with or better yet content built specifically with them in mind. As it stands the current relics aren't very organic. You clear all the current content (albeit well) and voila.

Also, Fusional is right with regards to the materia system. The current system is a breeding ground for RMT and does nothing to complicate the relic process. It just creates mass market imbalance when instead it could have been used as an effective gilsink to disperse the hundreds of millions of gil some of the launch players have accumulated.

To be on topic with my opening post
I am critiquing the imbalance of the materia needed for the different weapons.

1. As discussed in the thread Savage might and heavens eye IV ARE rarer thus their higher price in the market wards. The materia itself is limiting the amount of attempts you can make on the doublemeld and how often you can make them.
If I could make 10 attempts at a time like the avengers this wouldnt be an issue.

2. The other alternate route is buying the weapon outright. This is an issue when on average it costs 30 million more then the other weapons or when some cost triple or quadruple the price to buy. Whether you can farm 30-50 million gil more is not the point.

"But again, that doesn't mean we're going to forget about our current version players. We're going to listen to the voices of the players, look at the forums, adjust drop rates to reduce as much stress as possible for the players so they can experience this grand finale, the Seventh Umbral Era story, that ushers in 2.0."

If you read the whole question and answer in the opening post yoshi is referring to the RNG issues of current content such as the drop rates of seals in hamlet and the conversion rates of certain materia.
No hes talking about the droprates of the castrum novum fight(sarcastic tone).
I just want the dev team to acknowledge the issue- if they do adjust it before 2.0 great but its one thing to say you are gonna do something when you reply to an interviewer to save face and another to actually deliver upon it.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

Yes and No.

There should be a way for someone who cannot log in 5 nights a week for hours on end and therefore cannot get a ls that does hardcore raids to get a decent weapon that is not going to get them excluded from a large portion of the game.

We are seeing this in xi right now. DD(empy only) <can I have it>

Some ppl want to play the game and just cannot find a ls that will take them due to the fact they cannot run 5 nights a week or they are the very last person to get their weapon. They also cannot get into any content that you can do without a ls (again using xi as example...legion, voidwatch, nyzul isle, assault, limbus, einherjar, list goes on) cause they just don't have the time to spend on it and they dont want to take a year or two to farm it up when they can so they can enjoy other content that will be mostly abandoned and just in time to start creating the next ultimate weapon, two years later rinse and repeat.

They should have an option that doesnt require "hardcore" dedication. If you can only play a few hours a day a couple days a week you should have an option so you can get into other content (once we get it anyway). There should be difficulty in obtaining a weapons if you want to put time into into it, but the way it is right now in both xi and xiv leaves alot of ppl in the dust and causes alot of ppl to just give up. The player base could be alot bigger if they gave us more options.

Then you have the ppl who can spend alot of time on a weapon and they exclude other players from joining in due to lack of the top of the top gear and they tell them to f* off or to stop their QQ

Just because someone cannot dedicate 40 hrs a week to the game doesnt mean they should be excluded and thats what happens due to the community attitudes as a whole. SE should do their part to remedy this somehow and tell the elitests to f* off for a change. They arent paying any more than the part timers so its not like their money is more valuable and as a whole they could probably get more subscriptions if they would cater to all and not just the full time gamers.

Just my 2 cents

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No one here is being excluded from the game. In the first few years of XI king abjurations/relics/etc were a luxury. Did the fact that some people couldn't get king abjurations hurt their gameplay in any way? No. You could easily obtain high end gear from dynamis, sky, and later the other expansion zones. There was a nice balance, and the same could be done here.

Also, this game is already heavily geared towards casual players, whats the problem with there being a few exclusive pieces of equipment to reward more active/organized groups?