new option: vote wipe

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Originally Posted by SannaR

You mean giving PLD back their ability to use raise?

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It couldn't be used in combat anyway. PLD got the non-trait version of raise. Whm got a trait making it usable in combat.

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

The party shouldn't be punished by staying dead on the floor for 10 minutes because tanks have overpowered self sustain. It's griefing at this point, because it's disregarding people's time.

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This goes both ways. The person or people who are constantly not dying to mechanics also are having their time wasted by those who are constantly on the floor due to various things. Such among them being forgetting raise immunity or being too greedy of a dps. Neither side has more weight than the other. As I've said there's exceptions as to why a wipe isn't done right away. I'd also like to think most who are against this feature aren't trying to solo something at an hp% above 15. Unless it's a group and they have good dps then maybe 20%. Otherwise anything out of that range imho is griefing.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

It couldn't be used in combat anyway. PLD got the non-trait version of raise. Whm got a trait making it usable in combat.

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True I did forget that. They do need to allow phoenix downs to be used inside of combat. Or they could just give bard back their raise via LB3.

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Originally Posted by Archeron

This happens so infrequently, its not even an issue worth addressing. This is almost as sad as the Sastasha (or other ARR dungeon) drama that invades my Novice network feed every other week.

Fact is, if the boss is at 20% HP or lower, and I know that I can solo the boss, and my party has been collecting vuln stacks or otherwise playing extremely poorly, I'm going to solo it whether the party likes it or not. Call it a learning experience, blame whatever you like for it.

This issue can often be easily resolved through the power of communicating with your light party in an adult way.

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Which is it? You talk about resolving things through the power of communicating with your light party in an adult way, but then you also say you're going to solo something whether the party likes it or not. Is that your idea of communicating in an adult way?

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Originally Posted by SannaR

You mean giving PLD back their ability to use raise?

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I do not; I mean giving them a raise they can use at any time (in/out of combat), but with like a 5 minute cooldown and maybe a 10 second cast time.

The problem (including #healerstrike) is that the healer role is just not that fun or challenging, and generally unneeded for a LOT of content.

Imho, it is because the devs painted themselves into a corner: If you make it so healers are crucial, then there's too much pressure on when/if they die, which makes people not want to play healer so you make the tank able to survive without a healer, even though it takes forever.

This is easily alleviated by giving raise to more jobs so that the healer can die without much penalty, as long as someone else can "save the day".

Honestly I'd love to see a combat-medic skill (see GuildWars2) where it's not an instant cast, and it's "melee" range putting the person doing the raising at some risk.

This would allow enemies to hit harder and allow healers to die if they screw up, but not cause a single healer death to sour the duty for everyone (aka healer dies and we all die...or we all just sit here for 10 minutes waiting for the tank to solo)

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Originally Posted by SannaR

You mean giving PLD back their ability to use raise?

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A tank would not be able to use raise because they're too busy being hit. Go ahead. Use your free phoenix downs obtained from POTD. Try to use that while being attacked. This has ALWAYS been an option but I can count on one hand how many times someone has one.

As opposed to some freemium games that have the equivalent item only in the cash shop and basically hold being able to complete the dungeon for ransom.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

A tank would not be able to use raise because they're too busy being hit. Go ahead. Use your free phoenix downs obtained from POTD. Try to use that while being attacked. This has ALWAYS been an option but I can count on one hand how many times someone has one.

As opposed to some freemium games that have the equivalent item only in the cash shop and basically hold being able to complete the dungeon for ransom.

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You can't use a phoenix down in combat and a hardcast raise if a PLD was able to have their raise back and being able to cast it during a fight would be as doable as a healer having to do so. You don't alway get interrupted while casting as it takes about as much of time as it does in the early dungeons where you have to interact with something. It would also be a dps loss and hopefully they'd use it on someone who could res. It would also probably lead to a wipe which I thought was the whole point for why the OP wants this feature. I almost always have a phoenix down on me due to being dragged into a deep dungeon by someone. Bronze chests throw them at me so often that I have multiple. One in my saddle bag and one on each of my retainers. Still one should try to communicate and ask for a wipe especially if the group is low on time and it would be quicker to just to wipe and reset and go again as a group.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Which is it? You talk about resolving things through the power of communicating with your light party in an adult way, but then you also say you're going to solo something whether the party likes it or not. Is that your idea of communicating in an adult way?

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If you had the power of reading, I laid out conditions which I would solo a boss. Theres a difference between wasting an entire parties time to boost your ego, and clearing a boss because your party has totally eroded your confidence in their abilities.

A while ago... (over two years) we all died to Eden's Titan (normal) and this one Lala Tank (Warrior?... maybe PLD) solo'd the fight from like 40%

Can't say it wasn't entertaining, but I somewhat agree with this post. Fight from that point took like 10 minutes and 7 people were dead and only one was playing.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

A while ago... (over two years) we all died to Eden's Titan (normal) and this one Lala Tank (Warrior?... maybe PLD) solo'd the fight from like 40%

Can't say it wasn't entertaining, but I somewhat agree with this post. Fight from that point took like 10 minutes and 7 people were dead and only one was playing.

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It always seems to be Eden, doesn't it? I had an Eden Ramuh fight where 3 times just about everyone but myself (DNC) and the two tanks died around 40% and we wiped so we could restart. Fourth time DRK was just like "Wipe?" and they were like "No plz save us" so we managed to do it, but we had the blessing of the rest of the party.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

You can't use a phoenix down in combat and a hardcast raise if a PLD was able to have their raise back and being able to cast it during a fight would be as doable as a healer having to do so. You don't alway get interrupted while casting as it takes about as much of time as it does in the early dungeons where you have to interact with something. It would also be a dps loss and hopefully they'd use it on someone who could res. It would also probably lead to a wipe which I thought was the whole point for why the OP wants this feature. I almost always have a phoenix down on me due to being dragged into a deep dungeon by someone. Bronze chests throw them at me so often that I have multiple. One in my saddle bag and one on each of my retainers. Still one should try to communicate and ask for a wipe especially if the group is low on time and it would be quicker to just to wipe and reset and go again as a group.

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That's because the game's overall design doesn't require the phoenix down (that's what the healer was for) and it actually works exactly how Raise works in 2.0 because of the "enhanced raise" trait needed to use it in combat. (And other games that have such items, usually have "individual" and "party raise"... in their cash shop.) There's no place to buy them in the game. So clearly this item was essentially unintended to be used like it get's used in 1-9 (where it was your only way to raise the healer during/after combat.)

The point being there's no actual levers given to raise the healer once they're down, and if the tanks had raise, they would basically stop taking the healer into the dungeon rather than using it to raise only the healer. No instead that should have been part of LB functionality, but the meta is basically to never use LB except to hit the last 2% of a boss. If the entire party is down using LB3 by the tank is basically pointless. It might be worth considering having LB functionality changed so that it will revive the healer if the healer is down in that case, but really, it might just be better to have three LB buttons where it just does a Tank, Heal or DPS LB, and any party member can fire it as long as they have a healer.

I’m pretty torn on the topic.
I’ve watched tanks soloing bosses but except on one occasion the boss’s HP were already below 10% in those cases.
To me it depends which role I picked for the fight. While I do everything to stay alive in duties, even looking up mechanics and such, it sometimes can’t be prevented to hit the floor.

If I joined as healer I feel super bad and I take the fail of dying rather personal because to me it feels as if I leave the party high and dry.

If I joined as DPS I have more of a “shit happens” attitude and when the boss is down below 10% HP anyways I don’t really care and am happy with the tank soloing the rest. Just let the effin duty be over. Next time I might be standing till the very end. Not that I feel proud afterwards or like I had achieved something big, lol.

In case I joined as the tank I have a very different perspective on the matter. If the party hadn’t wiped before and this is the first try and the boss’s HP are already below mentioned threshold, I most likely keep going and take it down.
If they still have a good chunk of HP to go I will just die and let the fight restart.

If the others already wiped more than once on the boss with me as the tank and I sense so much of an ounce of laziness or unwillingness to acknowledge any mechanics or the party is deaf to good advice either I deliberately die and force a restart, cause I won’t be carrying around dead weight as the tank. Period.

I’m not doing the work of lazy coworkers in my actual job in RL, so why the f should I be expected to do so in a bloody game? XD

I was being raised by my parents under the credo of having to make an effort if you want to be rewarded or achieve something in life. So make some effort if you want to pass the duty. Simple as.

So my bottom line is I would prefer a vote for a reset. The game is still an mmo and it’s not only about the trinity of roles but also about overall teamwork in general (which lots of players nowadays lack in FF14). In case you think you have to solo something then you’re better off to either play an FPS or just run Trusts or unsync duties.

Normally I would say to start carrying potions if you're a non-tank player. However, this doesn't solve the problem that was created in ShB when they were making roles easier to perform in. DPS has to rely on the entire party to be kept alive, while tanks has the option whether to keep their leash on or not. I am keeping gear level in mind. However, there should be no way that a tank can easily recover from a tank buster without needing any help.

Thread would not exist if tanks were reliant on the healer to keep them alive. If you want to improve combat start with the tank/healer interaction. Current tanks making SB tanks look more balance despite some of the tanks being busted in that era lol

Watching tanks solo bosses is annoying, but I'd rather not enable a possible griefing system like this one.

Already bad enough when I'm tanking sometimes a bored healer will Rescue my tankbuster into all the DPS.

I just think perhaps there should be a mechanic that if only one person is left alive, then after 2 full minutes or so they could enrage. If your job has rez, plenty of time to get someone else up.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Watching tanks solo bosses is annoying, but I'd rather not enable a possible griefing system like this one.

Already bad enough when I'm tanking sometimes a bored healer will Rescue my tankbuster into all the DPS.

I just think perhaps there should be a mechanic that if only one person is left alive, then after 2 full minutes or so they could enrage. If your job has rez, plenty of time to get someone else up.

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I've thought of a possible enrage where the boss explodes for 9999999999 dmg that you cannot invuln if the last member alive is a tank. Though, not sure if this would be a good idea or not. it'd certainly be funny.

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Originally Posted by Archeron

Fact is, if the boss is at 20% HP or lower, and I know that I can solo the boss, and my party has been collecting vuln stacks or otherwise playing extremely poorly, I'm going to solo it whether the party likes it or not. Call it a learning experience, blame whatever you like for it.

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I know that I learn best while not playing the game, but instead sitting in time-out as I watch someone else just do it for me.
I wonder if it'd be a valid reason to report someone. This happened while I was story-going through Shadowbringers. Imagine just not getting to do a cool looking boss fight first run through because your tank decided that he'd rather just take 10 minutes to solo the boss down from 80% instead of just wiping, and taking 3 minutes to clear it normally. I tried explaining this, but he just kept on ignoring me. That's not teaching a lesson, or due punishment, it's pure pride and narcissism.
I'd be all for a vote-wipe feature.