#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

Oh, look. 10 less healers in the DF, what a massive strike.

When I though this forum cannot go even lower...

I mean unless the Japanese forum is in agreement with you all then I doubt much will change. I don’t play healer anymore and haven’t for a while but I do understand the issues and concerns. But I really don’t think the forum is as big a voice as it once was so I think it will fall on deaf ears.

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

Oh, look. 10 less healers in the DF, what a massive strike.

When I though this forum cannot go even lower...

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Right?! everything gets stale with time, this is just sad, these people hve just grown bored of the game but they're so addicted they feel they need to "go on strike" its hilarious.

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

Oh, look. 10 less healers in the DF, what a massive strike.

When I though this forum cannot go even lower...

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Genuinely what do you want us to do

We’ve provided more feedback than any single other sub forum for 8 years, pointed out problems, offered solutions, corrected each others solutions, shot down each others ideas trying to improve the feedback, condensed it on a megathread which JP prefers, waited time and again for them to act on our feedback all the while having people come in and be like “just quit you obviously want to be a DPS”, so we decide to abandon healers and now we are pathetic for doing that

I genuinely don’t understand what you people want

While the both the CN side and EN side of FFXIV community are probably stand with this idea, but the biggest hurdle of this strike would be the JP side of FFXIV community, I highly doubt they want to change the way healer are now.

While I for one, have distaste about gaslightning the playerbase into thinking that the playerbase are reason and responsible for the current state of FFXIV, but healer changes require JP community's understanding the healer's woe to fully realize the healer changes.

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Originally Posted by Zadood

While the both the CN side and EN side of FFXIV community are probably stand with this idea, but the biggest hurdle of this strike would be the JP side of FFXIV community, I highly doubt they want to change the way healer are now.

While I for one, have distaste about gaslightning the playerbase into thinking that the playerbase are reason and responsible for the current state of FFXIV, but healer changes require JP community's understanding the healer's woe to fully realize the healer changes.

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I mean, good amount of JP forummonger would just shot you down if you try to suggest anything that threatens their smooth sailing dailies clear chances i.e. introducing MP management, triage, etc. It’s no wonder why they want all tanks to be immortal & would rather the green dps bite the bullet of being obsolete.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

I mean, good amount of JP forummonger would just shot you down if you try to suggest anything that threatens their smooth sailing dailies clear chances i.e. introducing MP management, triage, etc. It’s no wonder why they want all tanks to be immortal & would rather the green dps bite the bullet of being obsolete.

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SE could've at least attempted to make healers a green DPS if they're so keen in making tanks immortal and giving more self sustain to DPS.

Yeah.

I promised the static to heal for DT.
But i'll def not play the healers in other group content.
MSQ and trust should be plenty to have one healer ready for the static anyways.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

I mean, good amount of JP forummonger would just shot you down if you try to suggest anything that threatens their smooth sailing dailies clear chances i.e. introducing MP management, triage, etc. It’s no wonder why they want all tanks to be immortal & would rather the green dps bite the bullet of being obsolete.

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There is a chance that you're speaking to the new healer mains on JP who jumped on the boat precisely because it's easy.

I play on JP and this is just my anecdote, but I have noticed some of the good JP healers I've cohealed with in SB are now playing DPS/tanks in PF. It's possible that their good healers quit the role much earlier than some here and the replacements are the people you see posting now.

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

Right?! everything gets stale with time, this is just sad, these people hve just grown bored of the game but they're so addicted they feel they need to "go on strike" its hilarious.

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Ah yes, the forum classic of "These people don't like what I like, time to mock and insult them and tell them they don't matter". What a wonderful community we have indeed.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

There is a chance that you're speaking to the new healer mains on JP who jumped on the boat precisely because it's easy.

I play on JP and this is just my anecdote, but I have noticed some of the good JP healers I've cohealed with in SB are now playing DPS/tanks in PF. It's possible that their good healers quit the role much earlier than some here and the replacements are the people you see posting now.



Ah yes, the forum classic of "These people don't like what I like, time to mock and insult them and tell them they don't matter". What a wonderful community we have indeed.

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I personally dont like the combat in this game so healing has been pretty chill, I quite enjoy it.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

There is a chance that you're speaking to the new healer mains on JP who jumped on the boat precisely because it's easy.

I play on JP and this is just my anecdote, but I have noticed some of the good JP healers I've cohealed with in SB are now playing DPS/tanks in PF. It's possible that their good healers quit the role much earlier than some here and the replacements are the people you see posting now[...]

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Totally a possibility, yes. Which would've make sense, because the players who loved all those intricacies had been long gone or given up. What's left currently today are... whatever can of worm we've fostered.

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

I personally dont like the combat in this game so healing has been pretty chill, I quite enjoy it.

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So you don’t like the combat in a combat focused MMO so you are drawn to a role that you can basically sleep through and yet we are the pathetic ones for arguing for change, the lack of introspection is impressive at this point

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

I mean, good amount of JP forummonger would just shot you down if you try to suggest anything that threatens their smooth sailing dailies clear chances i.e. introducing MP management, triage, etc. It’s no wonder why they want all tanks to be immortal & would rather the green dps bite the bullet of being obsolete.

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The thing is, it is INCREDIBLY stressful to live in JP, especially with things like this...

Talking bad about a mega-corpo in JP can actually get you jailed.
Once your public image is ruined, your life would became just as miserable as the prisoner in jail, it's even worse in countryside of the JP, as you legit can get starve to death because no countryside folks will even want to sell food to you.
Heavy sense of social hierarchy means excessive pandering and obedience to any seniors in any field of work, regardless how unreasonable they are.

Now, it's no secret why JP folks don't any more stress in their video game, as video game and anime is pretty much their escape machinism tool.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

While I fully support this I’ve come to realise it’s pointless

And that’s not because of a lack of feedback from us or a lack of visibility on our feedback or anything of that effect

It is simply the fact that healer mains are the only people in the game who even want healers to exist in this game

Ask a DPS, ask a tank, ask anyone who doesn’t have a strong opinion on healers if they prefer the healer healing or the tank doing it for the healer and 99.9% of those people will say they prefer the WAR doing it

That’s why they don’t respond to our feedback, they are designing this game for the majority of people who play who would just prefer it the healer role didn’t exist

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Yeah I often get this feeling as well. Healers seem to be a crutch. There's a reason why people are so excited when they can finish content without healers, i.e., "the crutch", and let the "real" jobs, that bring the action (dps and tanks), do the task. And often faster too if they know what they are doing.

Obviously just anecdotal but look at how much Xeno gloated about it being ~man mode~ to clear the dungeon without us feeble silly healers and how we are not f___ing needed.
I know ~man mode~ is his shtick and he has created this whole exaggerated persona around being a WAR main, so I think he's often provocative primarily to get a reaction out of people.
But I do think in a way it describes a wider sentiment in the community regarding the presence of healers in content and how not needing us is a badge of honour and an expression of their superior skill.
In some way (from their perspective), we actively stand "in their way" of that "badge of honour" and their skill expression.

I think this is also facilitated by the speed run mindset and unfortunately in those scenarios healers often slow a good team down because they lack damage.
But, in a trinity-based game content should be designed in a way that the fasted clear can only be achieved with all three roles, meaning bringing the healer is an advantage over bringing another dps or tank.

Only then healers can really be equal, and not just exist as a necessary but annoying crutch to DPS and tanks that they'd like to cast away as soon as they can.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

So you don’t like the combat in a combat focused MMO so you are drawn to a role that you can basically sleep through and yet we are the pathetic ones for arguing for change, the lack of introspection is impressive at this point

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LOL please, This is NOT a combat focused MMO, it's Story-driven and boy I have been playing this game A LOT longer than you so yes, you are the pathetic one, I'm a day 1 1.0 player, and I play this game with my husband, The difference between us, I still play this game for fun, not as a job or my second life or in some cases with a few on this forum their first lives, If I stop enjoying the game, I walk away and come back later on, simple.

I'm here to support the Idea.
I would also appreciate if Healers could be actual Healers in PvP.

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Originally Posted by Loggos

Yeah I often get this feeling as well. Healers seem to be a crutch. There's a reason why people are so excited when they can finish content without healers, i.e., "the crutch", and let the "real" jobs, that bring the action (dps and tanks), do the task. And often faster too if they know what they are doing.

Obviously just anecdotal but look at how much Xeno gloated about it being ~man mode~ to clear it without us feeble silly healers and how we are not f___ing needed. I know ~man mode~ is his shtick and he has created this whole exaggerated persona around being a WAR main, so I think he's often provocative primarily to get a reaction out of people.
But I do think in a way it describes a wider sentiment in the community regarding the presence of healers in content and how not needing us is a badge of honour and an expression of their superior skill.
In some way (from their perspective), we actively stand "in their way" of that "badge of honour" and their skill expression.

I think this is also facilitated by the speed run mindset and unfortunately in those scenarios healers often slow a good team down because they lack damage.
But, in a trinity-based game content should be designed in a way that the fasted clear can only be achieved with all three roles, meaning bringing the healer is an advantage over bringing another dps or tank.

Only then healers can really be equal, and not just exist as a necessary but annoying crutch to DPS and tanks that they'd like to cast away as soon as they can.

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The only way to fix this role mess, is to increase the self sustain of every non-healer job, then fold DNC and BRD with the current 4 healer into a whole new support DPS role, add 2 or more semi-spammable strong party wide healing abilities, then re-tuned the HP of every boss in this game.

While I for one is NOT a big fan of this idea, but this or similiar kind of design seems sustainable for long term, if CBU3 really plan to run FFXIV for a long time that is.

Support gameplay in general is just getting worse and worse.
Nothing what they showcased made me excited to raid in DT.
They're too affraid of nerfing things in fear of backlash, so they just powercreep the shit out of the game.
I never wanted healing on Drk, it just doesn't make any sense thematically and just makes the game easier for no reason.

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Originally Posted by Eraden

Mao sad. Mao really likes healers. Thems really great at keepings Mao whats BLMs alive. Mao very upset that healers nots having funs though.

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Cheer up, Mao: some of us healer-mains are having plenty of fun. Certainly me on SGE and my spouse on WHM are, or we'd be maining something else on our 11 (combined total) End-of-Content characters. Perhaps it's instructive that I like SGE more than WHM, and my spouse likes WHM more than SGE.

Neither of us is in a static, though. Did that years ago, and it was fun, but we no longer want the responsibility that comes with that.

As someone who despises playing healer I also give my support here.
No role should become obsolete, not even in easy content. At least not to this extent.

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

LOL please, This is NOT a combat focused MMO, it's Story-driven and boy I have been playing this game A LOT longer than you so yes, you are the pathetic one, I'm a day 1 1.0 player, and I play this game with my husband, The difference between us, I still play this game for fun, not as a job or my second life or in some cases with a few on this forum their first lives, If I stop enjoying the game, I walk away and come back later on, simple.

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No one called you pathetic, yet you're going out of your way to insult by calling Supersnow845 pathethic. What does that give you? So since you've played since 1.0, that means you remember how healers were pre SHB and how many players want, for example, SCH to go back to its SB iteration (same as AST), so why is it wrong for many other players to be dissatisfied with healers, especially if they started in ShB or EW? If those healers are complaining about it since the new healer changes, why is that wrong? Why is it wrong to be this dissatisfied because you've played since 1.0? I've been playing MMORPGs since 2005 and in all of those games I've played healer, they had more engagement than what we have now.

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Originally Posted by Sensui

I'm gonna go against the grain here and say they gave DPS and Tanks more mits and self heals cuz healers are too busy spamming glare rather than healing and we're tired of dying to raid wides.

*ducks*

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You should die to a raidwide if the healer is not healing or shielding. That is one of the skillchecks of a healer and healers need them too.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Get your tanks to stop using their active defensive and healing abilities. I was healing a tank that used 0 defensives through Tower of Zot the other night. Can't remember the last time I had to use so many GCD heals.

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I agree there's more to heal when tanks don't use their skills. Now if only Square would take away most of those excessive defensives and healing skills from tanks - then all dungeons would be as engaging to heal as your recent Tower of Zot run.

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

No one called you pathetic, yet you're going out of your way to insult by calling Supersnow845 pathethic. What does that give you? So since you've played since 1.0, that means you remember how healers were pre SHB and how many players want, for example, SCH to go back to its SB iteration (same as AST), so why is it wrong for many other players to be dissatisfied with healers, especially if they started in ShB or EW? If those healers are complaining about it since the new healer changes, why is that wrong? Why is it wrong to be this dissatisfied because you've played since 1.0? I've been playing MMORPGs since 2005 and in all of those games I've played healer, they had more engagement than what we have now.

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Read his post again, he said I called him pathetic in the original post which I did not so in that post I confirmed it for him to make him feel better.

Also let me just point out, on these forums you are a minority, most people are just happily playing the game, the people here complaining are ALWAYS complaining and wonder why the SE Devs steer away from these forums, you are not a majority by a large margin so don't go believing you are.

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

Also let me just point out, on these forums you are a minority, most people are just happily playing the game, the people here complaining are ALWAYS complaining and wonder why the SE Devs steer away from these forums, you are not a majority by a large margin so don't go believing you are.

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This is a fallacy. Just because people are quietly playing the game does not mean they're happy, it just means they haven't hit the threshold where they give voice to their problems yet.

We may not be the majority here, but neither are you. The community is not a hivemind.

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

Read his post again, he said I called him pathetic in the original post which I did not so in that post I confirmed it for him to make him feel better.

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I'd like to see your reasoning how telling people that you've been playing from 1.0 benefits any healer here. The complaints are valid and we more than enough posts given how to improve the current healer situation. Yes, we can take a break and come back to play the game later, or hell, play a different job for all we care, but the complaints are there to raise awareness to the major issue at hand that has been ignored since ShB release.

Healers have valid complains, people tell them to quit healer and/or play something else.
Healers quit being healers, people call them being childish and/or pathethic because they're dissatisfied.

Okay, so what do we do?

I’d just like to point out I’m also a legacy player so it’s not even like you are pulling rank on me, I’m just as old as you

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

There's not much real difference between pressing 1121 and by pressing 1234, if you believe there is there's something psychologically wrong with you, all classes are in the same boat and if you find this boring you'll find tanking and dps boring aswell...

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Although there's definitely always been this aspect on mmorpg forums, the healers really need to be reworked. And no, the ‘other classes are affected too’ argument isn't an argument (especially as it's a lie for a lot of jobs).

The fact that 90% of the time spent as a healer consists of spamming a key (litteraly), that in most of the content you spend your time wishing people were bad, and that there's a very clear curve that consists of getting bored as soon as you dare to master one of the classes (Scholar would tend to escape this rule a bit more?) should be good indicators.

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Originally Posted by Rehayem

I'd like to see your reasoning how telling people that you've been playing from 1.0 benefits any healer here. The complaints are valid and we more than enough posts given how to improve the current healer situation. Yes, we can take a break and come back to play the game later, or hell, play a different job for all we care, but the complaints are there to raise awareness to the major issue at hand that has been ignored since ShB release.

Healers have valid complains, people tell them to quit healer and/or play something else.
Healers quit being healers, people call them being childish and/or pathethic because they're dissatisfied.

Okay, so what do we do?

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I dont care what you do, quit for all I care i just find it hilarious you all think you are some sort of movement that will bring change to a game thats not changed it formula for years and is probably looking to go more casual because thats where the money really is.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I’d just like to point out I’m also a legacy player so it’s not even like you are pulling rank on me, I’m just as old as you

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Then you should know better.

Well SE told me to come to forum to leave feedback so here I am :p

https://i.postimg.cc/ncjPV5Hq/SE-Tol...k-to-forum.png

One thing I've thought about is if they just let people switch jobs in dungeons, so the healer can switch to RDM, or in some cases the tank can switch to DPS because of the sync being a joke.

Or they could let the party initiate a vote to make the dungeon harder; if they vote yes, there are buffs to the damage output and other mechanics, in exchange for greater rewards (higher tomestones).

If the vote wins ie. 3 players vote yes, they must be pretty confident in their ability to carry the sprout/returner through it. On the other hand, if there are 2 sprouts/returners there, maybe they both aren't confident enough for the difficulty setting and will vote against.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Well SE told me to come to forum to leave feedback so here I am :p

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"Come to the forums to leave feedback!"
"NO NOT THAT KIND!!!"

Anyway, back on topic:

SE has shown that they won't listen to feedback, so we should be hitting them where it hurts the most, right in their precious metrics.

We can assume that the people who care enough about healers to participate in a strike would be the ones who cleared high end content on it. That means the high end scene would be taking a hit. If they see their precious metrics show a dip in healers participating in high end content, then maybe they'll finally start asking what's wrong, and that would get the ball rolling.

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

I dont care what you do, quit for all I care i just find it hilarious you all think you are some sort of movement that will bring change to a game thats not changed it formula for years and is probably looking to go more casual because thats where the money really is.

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So we should just sit back and fiddle with our thumbs because casuals? If SE wants dungeons to be casual content, it's already there, called Trusts and Duty Support. The entire playerbase shouldn't be punished with piss easy content because few casual AFKers in Limsa complained healers are "too difficult", which is mostly tanks and melee DPS that I've heard most from.

Remember when SE tried to remove Energy Drain from SCH? Do you remember what happened? I'll tell you: people cried bloody murder and brought it back. So we know it is possible for them to listen, they just don't care.

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

LOL please, This is NOT a combat focused MMO, it's Story-driven and boy I have been playing this game A LOT longer than you so yes, you are the pathetic one, I'm a day 1 1.0 player, and I play this game with my husband, The difference between us, I still play this game for fun, not as a job or my second life or in some cases with a few on this forum their first lives, If I stop enjoying the game, I walk away and come back later on, simple.

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But what's the excuse for how healer gameplay has regressed over all these years?

For all it's woes, even 1.0 beta had more interesting healer gameplay than what we have now. Shield skills anyone?

I have no idea how anyone can find the current gameplay loop fun and engaging when the content isn't pushing you. Sorry.

Also signed I guess, not touched healer for over a year as it is.

While I agree with the sentiment, I am unsure what exactly SE can do to fix this while leaving legacy combat encounters unchanged and gameplay balanced between turbo casuals and raiders.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

One thing I've thought about is if they just let people switch jobs in dungeons, so the healer can switch to RDM, or in some cases the tank can switch to DPS because of the sync being a joke.

Or they could let the party initiate a vote to make the dungeon harder; if they vote yes, there are buffs to the damage output and other mechanics, in exchange for greater rewards (higher tomestones).

If the vote wins ie. 3 players vote yes, they must be pretty confident in their ability to carry the sprout/returner through it. On the other hand, if there are 2 sprouts/returners there, maybe they both aren't confident enough for the difficulty setting and will vote against.

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And I don't know if they're very good ideas. Although on paper I'd like them to revalue having multiple jobs set up, I suspect it would cause friction between players (‘what do you mean, you don't want to play rdm and insist on playing healer?’). ... On the other hand, I must admit that the suggestion is tempting for raids / extrems, where the two healers are often redundant.

Similarly, simply increasing the difficulty wouldn't be enough for packs. Having mobs that simply hit harder isn't interesting, or even a real difficulty. Good command of your class or not, at some point it just comes down to ‘am I stuffed enough?’ > yes / no. On the other hand, reintroducing more interesting interactions between classes and investing the buff/debuff system adds difficulty that really relates to the player's abilities. In my opinion, that's the direction we should be heading in for ‘sustainable’ difficulty (= one that doesn't get tiresome again with the logical increase in stuff and a synchronisation that can't always compensate for this increase).

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Originally Posted by Somnolence

While I agree with the sentiment, I am unsure what exactly SE can do to fix this while leaving legacy combat encounters unchanged and gameplay balanced between turbo casuals and raiders.

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To be honest a complete overhaul of the game and it's mechanics but thats such a huge undertaking aswell with the coding n all. When changes do come I can not seeing it being the changes people are subtly hoping for, People are saying they want more difficult content but in turn making the content outright more difficult would cause an even bigger uproar see WoW Cataclysm, I loved the difficulty of that at the time many did not.

Maybe its just me and I have reserved myself to the fact that things will always get nerfed and simplified for the bigger audiences, I feel there's no point in fighting back, not anymore.

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Originally Posted by Somnolence

While I agree with the sentiment, I am unsure what exactly SE can do to fix this while leaving legacy combat encounters unchanged and gameplay balanced between turbo casuals and raiders.

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I almost had this concern too, but also see: ARR through SB (gameplay).

I complained about Tanks and DPS having way too much sustain, but Healers also genuinely have way too many heals. They could cull half of their OGCD heals and still be fine. In early iterations of the game you actually had to think about timing your GCD, which, really, wasn't difficult, and kind of fun to do correctly in its own way.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

This is a fallacy. Just because people are quietly playing the game does not mean they're happy, it just means they haven't hit the threshold where they give voice to their problems yet.

We may not be the majority here, but neither are you. The community is not a hivemind.

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I would further to attest this statement as well, I only recently became slightly active on forum which is can be proven by the old guards of the forum, e.g. supersnow, taurus, oizen etc etc.

Before I even begin to posting on forum, I was one of the "silent and quiet players" that did not vocal about healer's issue as claimed by Kathryn. I was quietly playing FFXIV for at least 4 years, and let me tell you, playing as WHM at ARR almost make me quitted FFXIV, the only thing that keep me going on was hoping to get to HW to unlock DRK, MCH, and AST, the job that hooked me to try FFXIV to begin with.

Here the thing, Kathryn, what are the odds that the non vocal players that didn't complain about healer's issue are actually satisfied with the current job design? Or what are the odds the quiet players are actually dissatisfied about current job design like I did?

I, a silent FFXIV players, wasn't being vocal about healer issue for 4 years until now, just so you know.

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Originally Posted by Kathryn

I dont care what you do, quit for all I care i just find it hilarious you all think you are some sort of movement that will bring change to a game thats not changed it formula for years and is probably looking to go more casual because thats where the money really is.

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Negative attention is still attention. Thank you for bumping this thread and make sure to increase awareness of the #FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE by mocking it on other platforms too. Perhaps it will finally get the devs to read what the discussion around healer design is like.

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Originally Posted by Zadood

I would further to attest this statement as well, I only recently became slightly active on forum which is can be proven by the old guards of the forum, e.g. supersnow, taurus, oizen etc etc.

Before I even begin to posting on forum, I was one of the "silent and quiet players" that did not vocal about healer's issue as claimed by Kathryn. I was quietly playing FFXIV for at least 4 years, and let me tell you, playing as WHM at ARR almost make me quitted FFXIV, the only thing that keep me going on was hoping to get to HW to unlock DRK, MCH, and AST, the job that hooked me to try FFXIV to begin with.

Here the thing, Kathryn, what are the odds that the non vocal players that didn't complain about healer's issue are actually satisfied with the current job design? Or what are the odds the quiet players are actually dissatisfied about current job design like I did?

I, a silent FFXIV players, wasn't being vocal about healer issue for 4 years until now, just so you know.

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There's none, I really dislike the combat in this game to me it feels clunky and overbearingly laggy, it doesnt feel responsive enough, thats not gonna chaange and I've pretty much accepted that, and if I get bored I stop playing for periods of time.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Negative attention is still attention. Thank you for bumping this thread and make sure to increase awareness of the #FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE by mocking it on other platforms too. Perhaps it will finally get the devs to read what the discussion around healer design is like.

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This is my last post anyway, and as one of my friends just said to me while I was explaining the situation "no one ever goes to forums to say how much they like something" this holds infinitely more wisdom than this entire forum holds.