Yo-Kai Event: BLU Major Griefing Problem

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Originally Posted by Tint

It's not about taking advantage of what BLU has to offer, it's about denying other people to successfully participating in the games content.

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Are the people that can't participate in the game's content in the room with us right now?
The only case of this I can think of is sprouts that haven't unlocked flying yet, but I don't hear many sprouts complaining about it.

Each minion has 3 zones you can use to get the legendary medals (6! for HW/SB minions), if there are a lot of BLU mages in one zone you can move to a different zone that probably has less traffic. This is not to even mention the solutions proposed in the OP.
The overworld for once feels alive, but all some people want to do is complain about it.

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Originally Posted by Tint

[...]it's about denying other people to successfully participating in the games content[...]

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We won't (ever) know their real intent, that was my point. Of all things, they could be just trying to get their items ASAP then get out, never touching 'em anymore. And then, what? Do these BLUs even stick around longer than necessary to make it harder for the rest of community?

Maybe one of these days I'll zone in as BLU myself to spam Snort and Sticky Tongue to prolong FATEs lmfao.

Unless a blue mage turns and goes "mwehehe I'm griefing you" they are just blue mages doing overworld content as the limited job was designed to do.

what I would reccomend is to either wait until the initial rush dies down (the yokai event runs until 7.0) or to move to a quieter datacentre, if you have the option play during non peak hours as well and you'll find it to be easier.

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Originally Posted by PotatoTree

If they nerf blue again ya'll gonna regret it once Yokai is over and you need to solo fates for some old relic or whatever, lol.

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I agree with this actually BUT they could make the watch unequippable by Blue and that would not be an overall nerf to blue in the game.

When there are multiple people doing FATEs in the zone, you're gonna have a rough time getting full credit solo unless you're in tank stance spamming AoE

Join a party

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Originally Posted by Myrany

I agree with this actually BUT they could make the watch unequippable by Blue and that would not be an overall nerf to blue in the game.

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This wouldn't even solve the issue, you would need to ban BLU from summoning minions to stop people from using it.

CBU3 could rebalance the fates so that they don't die as easily, but it's clearly not a priority for them.
The game simply wasn't designed to account for so many people doing overworld content, so the only thing you can do is try the existing solutions or wait for the crowds to die down.

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Originally Posted by Mouthbone

This wouldn't even solve the issue, you would need to ban BLU from summoning minions to stop people from using it.

CBU3 could rebalance the fates so that they don't die as easily, but it's clearly not a priority for them.
The game simply wasn't designed to account for so many people doing overworld content, so the only thing you can do is try the existing solutions or wait for the crowds to die down.

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As I said earlier I used one of the solutions I went to the deadest server on Materia to get my 49 tokens and called the event done there (I didn't want the weapons or mounts). Even during off peek hours for the server I was fighting blues but at least I managed it. It took hours and left me exhausted and angry. Now that solution might work better in a couple weeks but now not so much.

For me though event done I am not grinding out the other stuff for weapons and mounts I don't like and won't ever use.

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Originally Posted by Myrany

It took hours and left me exhausted and angry. Now that solution might work better in a couple weeks but now not so much.

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Legitimate question. If grinding this took hours and left you exhausted and angry, isn't some of that on you for trying to get this done instead of doing it over time since it will be around for a few months? It seems really odd to me to complain about something that was totally in your control to not grind it out in the very beginning and instead possibly do a little bit over time.

*runs in*

At least on my server, which does move to "congested" status on and off, I was able to farm up 7 weapons last night, 2 mounts, all the minions, and getting MGP put together for the framers kit. I plan on finishing the rest of the weapons over this weekend over the course of 1 more play session (I think that is more then doable at the rate I am going).

I played as both SMN and DRG, my friend played as BLM. They had a tougher time because of long cast times, but even they were able to get a good amount of farming in.

Yes, some BLU mages will one hit kill boss FATES, but overall it was a great experience. Plenty of FATES to go around and plenty of people to interact with/mounts/glamour's to see.


Not saying that everyone has the same experience as me, but from how I have viewed it and experienced things so far, I wouldn't say this is a bad time at all. In fact, I wish more events were like this and had players actually out in the world/around each other more often.

Dynamis has been worse than expected with this. I swear I only get credit for one out of every 15 or so fates I try because the server is just swarmed with BLU who have the traveler tag.
It's infuriating.

I decided to level my blu before farming the fates for the event because honestly one shooting fates and then getting yelled at sounds fun, so I went to farm level 50 fates (my blu is 50 and doesn't have those one shotty spells yet) without realizing those were amongst the fates needed for the event so there were a whole group farming the fates and it turns out that nobody was one shotting everything? Even the few blu mages who were present. So I got my watch out, got a bunch of medals and unlocked a few minions.

Mayhap the good people on the forums are simply exaggerating about the whole issue? But surely that can't be, it seems so out of character for people to make mountains out of molehills around here.

For me it's less an issue of them nuking FATES and more the hydropulling, if stuff like that is allowed in the overworld then things like Provoke should be as well.

Also not directly related to BLU, but on the lower level FATES ranged jobs/classes can often kill the spawning mobs before they enter the FATE zone, which prevents melee from getting credit.

All in all, I think this event is just a fine display of how perfectly terrible overworld content is in FFXIV.

I completed the event and I had no problem with this, and most players ended up making it go faster for me.

My general advice is:
ARR Fates:
-Join parties if you can as it almost always guarantees max credit
-Play Phys Range and exploit their superior range to tag things faster than any BLU can, you don't need to get the kill just hit things once, BIG aoes help so I went Dancer but realistically any phys range probably works.

HW+ Onwards:
-Play a tank with tank stance on, enmity generation is factored into credit, or just keep doing the Phys Range thing

Honestly by the time I hit the Stormblood fates BLU cheese basically fell off, it was still being used but far less effectively.
Its really not that bad.

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Originally Posted by Taliriah

I decided to level my blu before farming the fates for the event because honestly one shooting fates and then getting yelled at sounds fun, so I went to farm level 50 fates (my blu is 50 and doesn't have those one shotty spells yet) without realizing those were amongst the fates needed for the event so there were a whole group farming the fates and it turns out that nobody was one shotting everything? Even the few blu mages who were present. So I got my watch out, got a bunch of medals and unlocked a few minions.

Mayhap the good people on the forums are simply exaggerating about the whole issue? But surely that can't be, it seems so out of character for people to make mountains out of molehills around here.

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Of course they are, I did all weapons in a single day on the 24th right during the height of the rush and I saw maybe 2 ultravibrations one shot bosses out of 300 fates or more.
Missile one shots were also very rare, nobody wants to sit there hitting a damage sponge when they need to clear hundreds of fates so everyone expects missile use out of the blues to thin the hp pool down a bit, only rarely will many blues accidentally synchronize their missiles and accidentally 1 shot the boss when they all connect at the same time. Even then plenty of time to tag and get credit in a party as long as you are paying attention.

They are just angry the blus are not playing by their slowpoke rules and can easily solo any fate without help.

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Originally Posted by Taliriah

I decided to level my blu before farming the fates for the event because honestly one shooting fates and then getting yelled at sounds fun, so I went to farm level 50 fates (my blu is 50 and doesn't have those one shotty spells yet) without realizing those were amongst the fates needed for the event so there were a whole group farming the fates and it turns out that nobody was one shotting everything? Even the few blu mages who were present. So I got my watch out, got a bunch of medals and unlocked a few minions.

Mayhap the good people on the forums are simply exaggerating about the whole issue? But surely that can't be, it seems so out of character for people to make mountains out of molehills around here.

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Are every fates getting nuked by blue? No
Did some players were forbidden to do a fate here and there because blue mage decided to be selfish? Absolutly and it should not happening period.

This was already a problem the last time this event happened. They learned absolutely nothing from it.

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Originally Posted by Ardeth

Everyone blames the Blue Mages when it's clearly SquareEnix's incompetence.

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People aren't free of responsibility if they willingly do this type of thing because they only think of themselves, that's a very immature way of thinking.
Exploiting features or tools you didn't create doesn't change the fact you're exploiting them.

- jump in and compete with other BLUs, you'll get your mounts eventually. try less than primetime for fate chasing. try smaller server.
- or just wait for week or two.

only yokai atma farm i ever did was before BLU back in the 60's, and it was dismal. faster fates die faster they respawn anyway.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

Exploiting features or tools you didn't create doesn't change the fact you're exploiting them.

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It's not exploitation when you use something for its intended purpose. Being overpowered against low level enemies whilst synched to their level is the entire point of limited jobs. It's what they were designed to do and why they were limited from doing other content.

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

We believe one of the unique traits of the blue mage is the ability to learn and use the monster's abilities that could potentially break the balance of the game. In order to bring out this uniqueness as much as possible, we have made the Blue Mage into a Limited Job that can be enjoyed alone.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

This was already a problem the last time this event happened. They learned absolutely nothing from it.




People aren't free of responsibility if they willingly do this type of thing because they only think of themselves, that's a very immature way of thinking.
Exploiting features or tools you didn't create doesn't change the fact you're exploiting them.

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I can't wait for the next event in Dawntrail, forum posters will claim Beastmasters are manipulating the backend FATE code.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

It's not exploitation when you use something for its intended purpose. Being overpowered against low level enemies whilst synched to their level is the entire point of limited jobs. It's what they were designed to do and why they were limited from doing other content.

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Do we really know what the intended purpose was? Has it been explicitly stated. I would say there's evidence to the contrary as BLU gets dramatically reduced experience from FATEs compared to just normal mob kills.

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Originally Posted by Sjol

Do we really know what the intended purpose was? Has it been explicitly stated. I would say there's evidence to the contrary as BLU gets dramatically reduced experience from FATEs compared to just normal mob kills.

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"to learn and use the monster's abilities that could potentially break the balance of the game" is pretty clear. If you can learn a spell, the intention is that you can use it. If you are able to one-shot a fate boss that has not been made immune like some other fate bosses have, the intention is that BLUs can one-shot that specific fate.

Between this and the Fall Guys event, I'm starting to think maybe it's better if they just merged the Dynamis server into the other ones, because it seems our "identity" at this point is just to be used and mocked.

People saying they need to fix it. There isn’t anything to fix. BLU only get a few things to exceed in,this is one of them.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

"to learn and use the monster's abilities that could potentially break the balance of the game" is pretty clear. If you can learn a spell, the intention is that you can use it. If you are able to one-shot a fate boss that has not been made immune like some other fate bosses have, the intention is that BLUs can one-shot that specific fate.

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I would make a distinction between things they intend and things they haven't gotten around to. They may think FATE bosses should be immune to Missile, e.g., but just haven't gotten around to changing their configuration because it's not a high priority compared to everything else.

I really don't think people want to die on the hill of "if I can do it in game it should be 100% allowed" because that's how you get SE to severely nerf BLU so they can't grief in events ever again.

besides there are plenty of things that you can do in game that are still banned and you shouldn't do. you could rescue grab a random person and pull them into an instant kill aoe, but you're going to get banned for it. You could bait a monster into killing someone in Eureka and refuse to rez them so they have to delevel and slow their progress in the content, you are going to get punished for it though.
you could shirk a healer and get them killed but you're going to get punished for it.

I mean, if you guys want SE to put all the guard rails up and make it so you absolutely could never ever grief another player in game even if you tried they might be happy to oblige but you should be aware what you're getting yourself into.

If a BLU or three is going around one-shotting everything before other folks can get a hit in... maybe just ask them kindly if they don't mind waiting a moment for others? While I'm sure there's at least one discourteous BLU out there, I bet most would be willing to work with others.

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

If a BLU or three is going around one-shotting everything before other folks can get a hit in... maybe just ask them kindly if they don't mind waiting a moment for others? While I'm sure there's at least one discourteous BLU out there, I bet most would be willing to work with others.

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I have tried and when you do this you get a snarky reply back or a "git gud". They know what they're doing, it's on purpose.
Getting people to whine and beg them to stop is the point of trolls like this. Getting people upset that they're going to miss out on rewards for the Yokai watch event is the point.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

I really don't think people want to die on the hill of "if I can do it in game it should be 100% allowed" because that's how you get SE to severely nerf BLU so they can't grief in events ever again.

besides there are plenty of things that you can do in game that are still banned and you shouldn't do. you could rescue grab a random person and pull them into an instant kill aoe, but you're going to get banned for it. You could bait a monster into killing someone in Eureka and refuse to rez them so they have to delevel and slow their progress in the content, you are going to get punished for it though.
you could shirk a healer and get them killed but you're going to get punished for it.

I mean, if you guys want SE to put all the guard rails up and make it so you absolutely could never ever grief another player in game even if you tried they might be happy to oblige but you should be aware what you're getting yourself into.

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Do you have any evidence blu mages are out there just 1 shotting bosses to grief people?
Doing something to maliciously kill a player is not the same as speeding up a farm.
If I see my entire party got the tag I'm killing it, no reason to wait for the entire datacenter to arrive when I don't even know when they are.
Parties are constantly being created and disbanded, keeping a giant multi-party blob grouped up is not feasible, it's normal for parties to go all over the place out of a loop.

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Originally Posted by ZiraZ

Do you have any evidence blu mages are out there just 1 shotting bosses to grief people?
Doing something to maliciously kill a player is not the same as speeding up a farm.
If I see my entire party got the tag I'm killing it, no reason to wait for the entire datacenter to arrive when I don't even know when they are.
Parties are constantly being created and disbanded, keeping a giant multi-party blob grouped up is not feasible, it's normal for parties to go all over the place out of a loop.

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If someone parks their car in front of yours and you can't leave you don't care if the guy is doing it because he is a prick or just because he is naturally a jerk. You want him to get his car out of the way and not doing that ever again.

That the same for blue we don't care why he is making us missing the fate we want him to stop doing it.

By definition, most griefing is by the use of in-game methods. Like blowing up people's stuff on a Minecraft server to insta killing and hoarding FATE progression. It's an absolutely toxic thing to do, but unfortunately, they aren't breaking any rules. They aren't playing in an unintended fashion. I see a lot of people hand waving it away because they don't want to be lumped into the griefing pile. I just find this whole event to be a microcosm of disingenuous people explaining away how they did nothing wrong. And they will continue to die on that hill anyway, so trying to make them believe that completely disrupting the gameplay of others isn't griefing, but they will. And SE can't really punish them because it's not explicitly against any T.O.S. So here we stand. We have time to do it.

As Robert A. Caro said, "Power doesn’t corrupt, it reveals." These people were always griefing jerks. The event just made it apparent who they were.

That's all I got.

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Originally Posted by Sesera

If someone parks their car in front of yours and you can't leave you don't care if the guy is doing it because he is a prick or just because he is naturally a jerk. You want him to get his car out of the way and not doing that ever again.

That the same for blue we don't care why he is making us missing the fate we want him to stop doing it.

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Nobody is on your way, you are free to speed up.
BLU doesn't have a teleport to fate spell (yet).

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

I have tried and when you do this you get a snarky reply back or a "git gud". They know what they're doing, it's on purpose.
Getting people to whine and beg them to stop is the point of trolls like this. Getting people upset that they're going to miss out on rewards for the Yokai watch event is the point.

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Can confirmed I asked blue mage not to os fate bosses and was told to "play blue mage" like great let me fix something that is a problem by becoming someone else problem.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

besides there are plenty of things that you can do in game that are still banned and you shouldn't do. you could rescue grab a random person and pull them into an instant kill aoe, but you're going to get banned for it. You could bait a monster into killing someone in Eureka and refuse to rez them so they have to delevel and slow their progress in the content, you are going to get punished for it though.
you could shirk a healer and get them killed but you're going to get punished for it.

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Yes, you are describing someone targeting another player just to maliciously bully them and spoil their game on purpose. That's not what BLUs are doing. Doing content with a class designed to excel at that content to get rewards out of that same content is not griefing. Just like playing an overpowered job in PvP and stopping other people from getting wins isn't griefing, it's how you get your own rewards. The same way spawning and engaging an S rank where a newbie is mining ore and gets killed, isn't griefing, because there is no malice behind it and it happens as a result of people playing open world content in the same space.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Yes, you are describing someone targeting another player just to maliciously bully them and spoil their game on purpose. That's not what BLUs are doing. Doing content with a class designed to excel at that content to get rewards out of that same content is not griefing. Just like playing an overpowered job in PvP and stopping other people from getting wins isn't griefing, it's how you get your own rewards. The same way spawning and engaging an S rank where a newbie is mining ore and gets killed, isn't griefing, because there is no malice behind it and it happens as a result of people playing open world content in the same space.

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In a competitive atmosphere, almost nothing can be considered griefing, and it becomes cheating more than anything. This is PvE. But willingly acting in a way that obstructs someone else's play can be. Sure, it has to be malicious, but I would argue you can see people struggling to keep up. They might even complain about it in chat. If you take that knowledge and still continue to nuke FATEs so you can get yours and screw everybody else, when does it become malicious? If you're the one struggling for whatever reason, maybe you don't have Blue leveled, or you don't want to be an jerk you tend to see that player interaction as negative at the very least. So, are you doing it maliciously to me? I would think so if it were me. Granted, I'm just swimming and not causing a bother, but at least to me, these players know what they're doing. They're griefing. If it was some miraculous accident, sure, but you'd have to be pretty disingenuous to believe that everyone who is nuking FATEs is innocent despite how it's affecting everyone else. And at that point, it's being done with intent. It's up to a person to person basis to see if there's any malice behind it, but if human nature is anything but predictable there's at least someone who's getting their rocks off ruining the experience of others which in that case by definition is griefing.

But I'm not a rules lawer or a real one, so grain of salt, but to me, it's griefing if you willingly know and participate in doing it.

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Originally Posted by Ardeth

Sure, it has to be malicious, but I would argue you can see people struggling to keep up. They might even complain about it in chat. If you take that knowledge and still continue to nuke FATEs so you can get yours and screw everybody else, when does it become malicious?

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Sometimes during an A rank train there is so much congestion people's teleports start failing and people kill the A ranks in the next zone without waiting for those who were left behind. That's not griefing either. The people who did manage to move to the next zone are not preventing others from doing the content; the ones unable to teleport can hunt when there is less congestion or they can try to be faster. The exact same applies here.

Complaining about missing out is valid, but missing out doesn't give someone the right to dictate how fast others are killing objectives for their own rewards. Trying to enforce a play style is against the rules.

When does it become malicious? If you see BLUs killing fates and they aren't in need of xp, don't have a minion out and aren't wearing a Yokai watch, there is reason to suspect they are doing it to grief.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Sometimes during an A rank train there is so much congestion people's teleports start failing and people kill the A ranks in the next zone without waiting for those who were left behind. That's not griefing either. The people who did manage to move to the next zone are not preventing others from doing the content; the ones unable to teleport can hunt when there is less congestion or they can try to be faster. The exact same applies here.

Complaining about missing out is valid, but missing out doesn't give someone the right to dictate how fast others are killing objectives for their own rewards. Trying to enforce a play style is against the rules.

When does it become malicious? If you see BLUs killing fates and they aren't in need of xp, don't have a minion out and aren't wearing a Yokai watch, there is reason to suspect they are doing it to grief.

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Again, if you know what you're doing, it is negatively impacting others, which you would. People have been extremely vocal about their disdain for how those players have been acting. Again, you're trying to make it not griefing when any 5 year old would tell you it is.

Next you're gonna say logging into the game during an expansion launch is griefing because I'm taking away the queue spot for another player. Time to maliciously log into limsa and grief everyone!
Do you make sure anytime you go out to grind fates you create parties for f2p players? They can't make their own parties so if you don't help them you are actively griefing them by taking their spots.
Again, hurry up and keep up. BLU mages don't teleport instantly to fates and they don't fly faster.

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Originally Posted by ZiraZ

Next you're gonna say logging into the game during an expansion launch is griefing because I'm taking away the queue spot for another player. Time to maliciously log into limsa and grief everyone!
Do you make sure anytime you go out to grind fates you create parties for f2p players? They can't make their own parties so if you don't help them you are actively griefing them by taking their spots.
Again, hurry up and keep up. BLU mages don't teleport instantly to fates and they don't fly faster.

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No, you're creating a straw man.

I don't have a side in this argument, but I can say that within about 3 1 - 2 hour sessions over the week I've gotten all the minions and 3 weapons, so the sweaty blu groups are long finished with the event. I just went DRK and turned on tank stance. It's not bad at all.

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Originally Posted by Ardeth

Again, if you know what you're doing, it is negatively impacting others, which you would. People have been extremely vocal about their disdain for how those players have been acting. Again, you're trying to make it not griefing when any 5 year old would tell you it is.

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There is going to be negative impact when everyone is trying to farm FATEs for an event at the same time.

Trying to prove malicious intent on the part of those choosing to use BLU is going to be an uphill battle.

These exact same complaints were aired the last time the Yokai event happened. SE did nothing and after a couple of weeks all the players using BLU to farm their medallions got what wanted and disappeared.

SE is extremely unlikely to suddenly decide to do something about it this time. We do have 2 months to get what we're after. There's nothing wrong with having a little patience until feeding frenzy passes. I'm not saying that anyone is wrong to be upset over the impact of BLU on the FATEs but it's a losing battle that really isn't worth fighting considering SE's past track record on this exact subject.