New healers skills

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Originally Posted by Moqi

I just find it more rewarding to have a system in place that lets me use all my abilities and rewards me for doing it effectively (like pretty much every job's rotation and resource managment) instead of having to actively choose not to use some abilities. We already have an opporunity cost with GCD healing and that's enough for me.

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Isn’t that more what energy drain actually does over addersgall

You are rewarded for coordination and organisation of your heals with the option to contribute slightly more damage

Like sure addersgall doesn’t punish you for using a heal but there is also no reward because everything is free

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Originally Posted by Moqi

I just find it more rewarding to have a system in place that lets me use all my abilities and rewards me for doing it effectively (like pretty much every job's rotation and resource managment) instead of having to actively choose not to use some abilities. We already have an opporunity cost with GCD healing and that's enough for me.

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Not to be rude but SGE is just around that corner, should you have as little opportunity cost as possible. Me, personally, I like having to choose. I don't consider losing an offensive cast to heal to be detrimental.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Isn’t that more what energy drain actually does over addersgall

You are rewarded for coordination and organisation of your heals with the option to contribute slightly more damage

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It's a videogame and I want to use all my shiny new abilities. It just doesn't feel as fun when optimization requires not doing that. There's really nothing more to it (and Energy Drain's potency and animation isn't even that satisfying to use after sacrificing your other shinier spells).

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Originally Posted by rawker

Not to be rude but SGE is just around that corner, should you have as little opportunity cost as possible. Me, personally, I like having to choose. I don't consider losing an offensive cast to heal to be detrimental.

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...good for you? Someone said they didn't understand why some people don't like SCH and I explained why I personally don't. I don't need you to tell me to play something else, I already do.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

My question is then "Why do people expect everything to go smoothly for their perfect optimal run in a random pick up group?".

If someone is chasing a perfect optimal run, go find some like-minded people and go in together. Complaining that you have to use Soil/Indom instead of an ED in a random PF is your own fault.

What also baffles me is when someone says having to use Aetherflow to heal feels bad to them but also, at the same time, say that they don't care about parsing and logs. Why would someone feel bad about not getting 100 potency unless they're chasing a gold log?

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100% agree

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Originally Posted by Moqi

It's a videogame and I want to use all my shiny new abilities. It just doesn't feel as fun when optimization requires not doing that. There's really nothing more to it (and Energy Drain's potency and animation isn't even that satisfying to use after sacrificing your other shinier spells).

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I get it, and I like both playstyles. SGE tries to use everything in conjunction to maximise healing without losing uptime, and SCH carefully chooses the best tool or combination of tools for the profile of the incoming damage, being rewarded with a few extra Energy Drains if they succeed. I'd like to see the jobs evolve and separate keeping distinctions like that (and fairy/kardia etc) in mind rather than staying so similar in capabilities and gameplay.

Since its obvious dps wont change this expansion and pretty much everyone thinks every class will still be a burst class, im hoping for a much bigger overall damage increase necessitating GCD ideally in all content but hopefully at least in the Extremes, Savage and Criterion. I won't mind these general upgrades and buffs instead of fancy new moves if healing itself is made harder.

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Originally Posted by Ramiee

Since its obvious dps wont change this expansion and pretty much everyone thinks every class will still be a burst class, im hoping for a much bigger overall damage increase necessitating GCD ideally in all content but hopefully at least in the Extremes, Savage and Criterion. I won't mind these general upgrades and buffs instead of fancy new moves if healing itself is made harder.

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we've been hoping for this for 5+ years now and we're still waiting for it to happen lol

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

^what about SCH needs a rework (I mean outside of redoing healing from scratch), ignore my main is honestly argue SCH is least in need of a rework

It’s the only healer that has a semi interesting healing kit left, it requires more than one brain cell in the “double weave 8 times in a row” way that square enix likes of push isn’t and it’s the only healer with functionally no redundant skills

Modern healer design is garbage but SCH is damn near flawless within this design philosophy

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SCH is a clunky job whose kit gets in its own way half the time. It also seems to have a weird identity crisis between being, you know, a scholar, and the fairy.

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Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

SCH is a clunky job whose kit gets in its own way half the time. It also seems to have a weird identity crisis between being, you know, a scholar, and the fairy.

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That’s kinda the point on both fronts

The kit intentionally gets in its own way because it wants you to plan stuff out, not just vomit out 15 CD’s like SGE does

As for the design SCH isn’t really a scholar they are a war tactician/war medic, the fairy is meant to be a tactical advantage, it’s an identity crisis in the way the fairy isn’t designed to be the healer, the SCH is but that’s more because they won’t give us buffs

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

The kit intentionally gets in its own way because it wants you to plan stuff out, not just vomit out 15 CD’s like SGE does

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Even if you'd give SGE an ED, it would still not be clunky. I mean, we kinda currently already do it by throwing a random [something-]chole just to regain mp in case there's nothing to heal ...

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

it’s an identity crisis in the way the fairy isn’t designed to be the healer, the SCH is but that’s more because they won’t give us buffs

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Yet our goal is to have her and only her heal so that we can gain 300 potency per min. (+300 every 3min).
If she's not meant to be the healer then why are we trying our best to avoid gcd heal and AF-ogcd?

The fairy healing is a tactical advantage since you're able to control a light party way beyond your cast range. Also, SCH cooldowns modifying buffing Adlo/Succor should be an inspiration for future oGCDs that isn't tied to AF..

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

Even if you'd give SGE an ED, it would still not be clunky. I mean, we kinda currently already do it by throwing a random [something-]chole just to regain mp in case there's nothing to heal ...


Yet our goal is to have her and only her heal so that we can gain 300 potency per min. (+300 every 3min).
If she's not meant to be the healer then why are we trying our best to avoid gcd heal and AF-ogcd?

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I never mentioned energy drain, I mean you can’t just dump dissipation, seraph and union at the same time like SGE can with every one of its CD’s

And yes that’s what I said the fairy was never meant to be the healer, the SCH was the healer, the removal of buffs and debuffs off eos/selene making them a proxy totem healer is the worst thing they have done for SCH outside of trying to make it an UWU fairy mage

I do like more supportive cooldowns too but I would also like the ability to powerup my fairy at any given time at the cost of MP over time.

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Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

SCH is a clunky job whose kit gets in its own way half the time. It also seems to have a weird identity crisis between being, you know, a scholar, and the fairy.

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I feel the Seraph is the worst part of SCH design, having 2 charges really limits the usage to raidwides that not always have a dot or are multi hit. I'd rather have just 1, bigger shield. The only thing interesting about it is the planning you need to do to summon her a little bit before the AoE hits.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I feel the Seraph is the worst part of SCH design....

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https://c.tenor.com/YG8C8C5gkQUAAAAC/tenor.gif
So happy to know more people see the SCH demi summon as problematic.

At level 100 we unlock Titania summon after summoning Seraph where she disables all button inputs except broil and controls the rest of your tool kit. Then a quick fix where broil is also automatically pressed for us because JP healers said it was too hard to press the button between gacha pulls on their second monitor. Then 2 weeks later Yoshi P says in an interview says that we should just play ultimate.

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Originally Posted by rawker

So happy to know more people see the SCH demi summon as problematic.

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While I view Seraph as just another tool in the SCH's bag of tricks, the ghosting problem and how long it takes her to activate are undeniable problems.

Rouse was much better, bring that back.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I never mentioned energy drain, I mean you can’t just dump dissipation, seraph and union at the same time like SGE can with every one of its CD’s

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Ah my bad I misunderstood what you were referring to.

Well clearly now she's the healer and we're the support.

I personally don't mind, I like the idea of having some part of the kit tied to specific fairies or "absence" of fairy.

Even Dissipation is a rather cool skill, I just hate how weak it is considering its CD (and that god damn 30s duration...)
When I press Lillybell and Macro, it feels like I just used my best skill to heal something difficult. When I press dissipation... it just feels like "here goes my extra broil ..... behold!"

I'm pretty sure we'll get more UwU fairy skill to become the fairy mage x)

I believe they should update Dissipation. Had this thought for some time main-ing SCH. Just give it an insta-cast for Succor and Aldo since you have to torture yourself for 30secs. Just give more usage to the ability than 3 free aether stacks.

The other thing I had in mind as a simple QoL. Recitation, a one time insta-cast for adlo or succor.

I don’t know how they can fix the fairy delay in terms of casting abilities.

Seems pretty disappointing. This is the only game where a jobs best days are in the past. Healers are never going to be as fun as they were in 4.0. What a letdown.

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Originally Posted by Truen

Seems pretty disappointing. This is the only game where a jobs best days are in the past. Healers are never going to be as fun as they were in 4.0. What a letdown.

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I’m not expecting them to be honest. What I’ve learned and seen. Back then, the game was inspired by WoW and its overbloated abilities. It looks to me, it’s trying to be FFXIV. I did had disappointments, like changing Stormblood’s SMN to Shadowbringer’s SMN and I hate it. Yet somehow at the same time hate Stormblood’s SCH and loved Shadowbringer’s SCH. I just find a way to make it work. That’s all I can do.

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Originally Posted by OliviaLugria

Will I get an actual kit or just be spamming broil this expansion?

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Ofc it'll be more hateful spamming...some day new people will fix this mess. Some day.

So... I get that only SCH got any news from benchmark. None to be said about WHM, AST or SGE?

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Originally Posted by miraidensetsu

So... I get that only SCH got any news from benchmark. None to be said about WHM, AST or SGE?

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All 4 healers saw a new skill in the benchmark we just don’t really know what they do besides some data mining we can’t really discuss here

The skills shown appear to be
AST- AOE GCD heal
WHM- AOE GCD heal
SCH- oGCD debuff/attack
SGE- GCD attack

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

All 4 healers saw a new skill in the benchmark we just don’t really know what they do besides some data mining we can’t really discuss here

The skills shown appear to be
AST- AOE GCD heal
WHM- AOE GCD heal
SCH- oGCD debuff/attack
SGE- GCD attack

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And this is when we'll be disapointed to see

AST - Aspected Helios II : Same as before with flashy sun like animation
WHM- MedicaIV : Same as MedicaII, with flashy flower animation
SCH- Massive Chain Strategem : Same as Chain strategem to everyone
SGE- Toxikon III : Same as ToxikonII with more damage.

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

And this is when we'll be disapointed to see

AST - Aspected Helios II : Same as before with flashy sun like animation
WHM- MedicaIV : Same as MedicaII, with flashy flower animation
SCH- Massive Chain Strategem : Same as Chain strategem to everyone
SGE- Toxikon III : Same as ToxikonII with more damage.

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Wouldn't really surprise me that's exactly what those 4 end up being tbh. What we most definitely needed was to buff our gcd heals (again, since we already got that lv 85 trait in EW)

On a sidenote, in case they are just upgrades to Helios and Medica, the fact they use the same character animation is only adding insult to injury imo.

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

And this is when we'll be disapointed to see

AST - Aspected Helios II : Same as before with flashy sun like animation
WHM- MedicaIV : Same as MedicaII, with flashy flower animation
SCH- Massive Chain Strategem : Same as Chain strategem to everyone
SGE- Toxikon III : Same as ToxikonII with more damage.

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Good call. Healing in this game will be lame for the foreseable future. Say what you want about WoW, but in classic the healers there are pretty dang fun /w good balance between dps and healing. Here--it's just depressing.

Looks like SGE got 2 oGCDs, one after dosis and one after phlegma ?

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Originally Posted by Teno

Looks like SGE got 2 oGCDs, one after dosis and one after phlegma ?

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Not necessarily oGCD, especially not the one after Phlegma. That one you can use it uses up Eukrasia.

I cannot believe I’m saying this. I’m pumped about sage! Pankardia is something I’ve wanted since Sage was announced and the new GCD attack looks pretty neat. So long as said attack is on a 15-30 second cooldown I’ll probably play sage quite a bit in DT

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Originally Posted by SargeTheSeagull

I cannot believe I’m saying this. I’m pumped about sage! Pankardia is something I’ve wanted since Sage was announced and the new GCD attack looks pretty neat. So long as said attack is on a 15-30 second cooldown I’ll probably play sage quite a bit in DT

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I'm going SGE main. Eukrasian Dyskrasia, as silly as that sounds, is such a neat addition. Pankardia also is amazing. I really really hope the new GCD attack is a very short CD, even shorter than Phlegma and not a 2min thing just to get it in line with the rest of the healer skills. (At least it doesn't seem to be tied to any particular CD. At first I thought It would unlock as part of Pneuma usage, Pneuma being our big 2min CD, but it's used before that in the video. Maybe it's combo'd off Dosis?)

I have zero idea what square is trying to achieve at this point, SGE already has the highest healing output of the 4 healers by a pretty wide margin, can you imagine what it’ll be like with another physis. Like what are the regen healers even doing in the game anymore

Knowing square I’m assuming eukrasian dyskrasia is a loss on 1 so we will likely continue with this weird meta of SCH being the dominant mitigator given it’s getting another spreadlo amplifier and SGE being a proxy regen healer whole AST holds on by nature of divination

You guys could at least try... :D

https://i.imgur.com/Na4kE5z.png

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I have zero idea what square is trying to achieve at this point, SGE already has the highest healing output of the 4 healers by a pretty wide margin, can you imagine what it’ll be like with another physis. Like what are the regen healers even doing in the game anymore

Knowing square I’m assuming eukrasian dyskrasia is a loss on 1 so we will likely continue with this weird meta of SCH being the dominant mitigator given it’s getting another spreadlo amplifier and SGE being a proxy regen healer whole AST holds on by nature of divination

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Seems like they may have gone back on the whole pure and shield healer thing. As for output, we haven’t seen the numbers yet. Possible they’ve removed/nerfed the regen from Kerachole and sacred soil and/or buffed whatever mit/shields whm and ast have. My hopes aren’t sky high but we don’t know enough to really say anything for certain yet