I ask myself the same thing every day. Are we?
Either way, if the OP doesn't want to do something so simple as standing in a populated spot or interacting with people in an MMO to get what he needs, he has no room to complain.
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Stop being such a cheap ass if you refuse to lvl a craft. not like 5k is hard to come by. Or if youd offer more then 1 gil or the dark matter ppl would be more inclined to repair. But I dont even check ppl anymore because 90% of the time its a primal weapon up to avoid the U/U, Or someone who just forgot to take the symbol down.
How can a 5k per item fee make you want to quit? I am poor on the game by everyones standards and I have no problems whatsoever with a 5k per item fee. It really doesn't hurt you bad especially when you can farm that amount in less than 10 minutes. Get like 4-5 boar hides or raptor skins and bam there is your repair bill.
Sure like in FFXI when I didn't have to repair my gear, but then again when I died I lost my hard earned EXP and that is a system I hate more than a repair system anyday. Instead of saying you hate it give a reason why, and an idea of what would be better than it and how it would effect the current economy by taking away several class crafting mechanics.
Currently it is just about the only gil sink that doesn't give back to the players, it is very effective for the small fee it takes out for the people that do use it and it doesn't effect the people who do not. Currently it works with no hitches and a small fee what is there to complain about? If you don't want to repair your gear so much don't die so much.
P.S. Felis did you play FFXI? and was it under Felis? If so what server? Just curious :)
shoot not just that if he's got a 5k repair bill then he's atleast lvl 50 go get and repeatedly do lvl 40 leves or get a full party of people doing it and bam you got the money for the repair bills easily make around 100k per 8 leves and get a full party of 50 it'll be short work on those leves and good money
Repairing is good atm but it needs a bit of tweaking to make it perfect.
My Suggestion to make this better is by having having teh cost of repair based on the %.
Say from 0% Durability to 99% costs 5000 gill.
But lets say i want to repair my weapon wich sits at 45% Durability to 99%, so the cost should be 54 % from the 5000 gill is 2700 gill to get it repaired to 99 % again. Becouse im not repairing it from 0 durability. I think the gill should scale with the amount off % durability you have on your gear.
Did i make sense?
Then have a player repair the item for you.Quote:
no I aint paying 5000 per item for 99%.
Nobody "likes" the system, but it's a gil sink so it's not going to go away. It's also basically the only penalty for death.
you did but they're not going off of that that would mean even lower lvl items could be 5k to repair if they're down to 0% right now it's based on the level of the item. higher level items and rare ones flat rate of 5k repair weither it's 0% or not and the lowers i've seen down to 300 gil no matter what.
it makes sense but if they do itthey should scale it for the level of the item as well not just durability
5k gil is a big deal? You get 10k for doing a single leve quest at 40+
The Repair system isn't a money sink if you have friends to help you repair the gear. Just carry Dark Matter with you. I just think you need to work on finding a efficient way to make gil.
Can I ask the real purpose of this system at this point?
It's not an effective gil sink (I've still got tons from everyday levequests), you have to stop what you're doing to go get it repaired (admittedly, it's not as bad as it once was), it's not an effective deterrent to death, and it's just plain annoying.
As it is, it just wastes everyone's time and I don't see the point of having it.
I agree with the OP, to my own surprise. Everyone goes on and on about how necessary the repair system is for crafting classes. But I've yet to see any MMO where that was the case. FFXI did not even have a durability system, and had the most profitable crafting systems I've ever seen in an MMO. There are better ways to do it and history is our proof.
Having to deal with scrolling through huge lists of items in a very laggy interface and individually putting each one up for repairs is very time consuming. There's other things I would like to be doing with that time. Not being able to sell damaged gear exacerbates the problem. I'm constantly chipping away at all of the gear I go through while leveling multiple classes, and checking prices to see if it's even worth repairing items to resell. The fact that my equipment can break doesn't bother me. I can just go see the NPC and get everything repaired - that fortunately doesn't take so long. But dealing with used gear after you're done with it, that is an inventory nightmare if you're not heavily into crafting.
So either:
1) Get rid of durability altogether
2) Bring the user interface about a thousand astronomical units closer to 'convenient' than it currently is
3) Let us list damaged gear
Any of the three would kill my headache, though if I had my preference it would be #1.
I won't quit over it though. At least v2.0 should help with the interface.
PLUS
^ All of this.
Either you are doing something terribly wrong or you are grossly exaggerating. I am on the same server as you and apart from the very early days when you required specific items for repair I never had to wait more than 5 mins for a repair. In fact, the majority of my linkshell complains because they actively look for people to repair in Ul'dah on Balmung and there is never anyone TO repair, because the moment someone puts a flag up bam it's taken.
As this is a social game, I would strongly suggest you socialize. Get into a linkshell, make friends, what have you. You will meet someone capable of repairing. Probably only 1 in every 7 people I've come across does not craft. Then, you can ask for repairs from a friend, and lo and behold the repairs will come to you.
As for whether the system sucks, it used to. It takes ages for stuff to break now, and it is a simple way for some people to make money. I think it's okay. I don't think it has to go. I wouldn't complain too much if it did go. But it is definitely not as bad as you and some others make it out to be. If you think getting repairs is a challenge, wait until you decide to try to get a relic or something.
Does anybody here know how honing in chocobo's dungeon works? Now that would feel motivating instead of a chore that it is now.
I'm going to agree with Rjan. I typically only pay 500 gill to 2k a piece to repair an item through the npcs, and have never had to wait longer than 30m or an hour to have others repair all the items I put up, and that's at offering only 1-3k a piece. Hardly a bank breaking amount.
I can understand not liking the repair system, but the OP seems to just be throwing a bunch of hyperbole out there to add "validity" to his pov.
But nobody thinks it's a challenge, it's just a waste of time. A relic weapon is motivation; a reason to play and invest time. Most people like that stuff. On the other hand, durability is just a time sink that doesn't really add anything useful to the game. It certainly doesn't add anything enjoyable, it just takes time away from the meaty parts of the game which we'd all rather be doing. It's also not a major point in crafting usefulness or the social aspects of the game.
It seems a lot of people have the perspective that these are 'not good enough reasons to remove durability'. Our complaints are apparently too small. My response is, what's a good reason to have it in the first place? If it doesn't make us fear death, if it isn't important to crafting, if it's not a useful social tool, then what does it do? Everybody knows the system is pointless.
Repairs are not meant for a gil sink, nor are they important to crafters. The only reason it is the way it is, is because Yoshi-P said that there needs to be some sort of penalty for dying. Since we dont lose XP, we get gear damage. Don't you guys remember the whole "There needs to be some fear of dying" (it was along those lines lol), to counteract the blood warping back in the day?
I just leveled them all up (Working on last classes) so I can repair them myself. Much cheaper that way...I know not everyone has time to blow on doing that but it is the only thing I could think of >_< Most people wanna log in and play (I dont blame them..that is why they are on a MMO in the first place lol)
Also
This. Crafting usually makes some pretty badass stuff. They could always have materials for the best gear drop from bosses..that way crafting would be plenty useful still. As a crafter I would much more like to focus on being able to make friends "elite" gear vs "oh ya I can repair that for you np"Quote:
I agree with the OP, to my own surprise. Everyone goes on and on about how necessary the repair system is for crafting classes. But I've yet to see any MMO where that was the case. FFXI did not even have a durability system, and had the most profitable crafting systems I've ever seen in an MMO. There are better ways to do it and history is our proof.
be happy that you havent played other several MMorpgs, where you can drop your weapons after death (Lineage II) or your item got permanently destroyed after repairing it hundreds of times (DAOC)
rofl I remember killing red people in L2 and their stuff dropping. Managed to get some really nice gear from the evil PK'ers haha...but you only dropped it if you would go and kill people who didn't fight back...a somewhat fitting punishment :3
The thing in DAOC though sounds ridiculous >.>;
I will admit the repair mechanic can be annoying but i have learned to live with it all i need is to mine the dark matter and level up my crafting and im set used to be MUCH worse when you needed specific mats to repairs stuff instead of a all purpose fix it all rock.
You're asking for the wrong thing. Ask for them to make repair costs scale with gear damage. Repairing a 0% item to 99% should cost 5000 gil. Repairing an item from 50% to 99% should not cost 5000 gil. And repairing an item from 80% to 99% should definitely not cost 5000 gil. Repair costs need to scale, in short. I made the habit of always repairing in town in other MMOs with repair systems. This one is so bare bones and so lopsidedly in favor of crafters it isn't even funny.
Sure you can repeat your sarcasm laden post as much as you wish. You wanted to take some of the things you or perhaps others dislike about the system, and lay them on me as if it was something I loved to do. Shall I quote your post here again? I'll do it anyways.
"I call BS that you really enjoy the repairing system. I mean I guess I understand, there is nothing better then scrolling through your inv spending tons of time repairing your own gear, or sitting in town hunting down people to repair or waiting for someone to need it. That really does sound like the best thing ever."
I like having a semi realistic gear degradation/repair system. I never said it couldn't be tweaked a little, which 2.0 will likely do. So I repeat, I LIKE having a realistic or semi realistic repair system. I never said I like scrolling my inventory, or having someone else repair... in fact it happens rarely enough that the time it takes is barely anything. These things you claim I enjoy, are merely things I accept as part of a system I like having in this type of game. It's not straight black and white.
Repairs can stay if they make it a no-hassle system.
a) Let all DoH repair all things given the appropriate level. We're halfway there with dark matter. Suspend your disbelief a little more. Hell, make a quest/key item out of it. This is what most blew my mind from the last player poll results: by a wide margin, people preferred not to make something as mundane as repairs more convenient.
b) Let me repair everything in my inventory and on my person instantly, at the touch of a button. I shouldn't have to strip myself bare, then swap to the right class, then repair each item individually, then swap to the next class, and so on. As it is now, other people can "repair all" the gear I'm wearing. How wonderful if I could do that myself.
The point of a gil sink no matter how minor it is isn't to drain mass amount of money from the economy, it is used to alleviate some of the currency from the market. It also depends on the size of the gil sink etc, also it takes what a total of 30 seconds to repair all your gear? and there are so many places to repair now finding nearby isn't an issue.
So it doesn't really waste barely any time at all and it serves the purpose it was intended for. I go to the merchant more than I get my stuff repaired by players because I find it faster especially if I am out in the field.
Only way I would like to see it removed is if they either come out with a better system or a better death penalty (one I don't lose exp when I die).
You are hitting a lot closer to home with how it should be. I also voted to let all do repairs and was really surprised that people didn't want to make repairs easier. Though the reason why is they want to make themselves feel validated because they leveled all crafting classes and some just to do repairs, they don't think it is fair. Perhaps they could make a key item like you said where you have to obtain it from doing crafting quests on other classes which allow you to learn how to repair all items as any DoH class.
so what you're saying is you're wanting to have a goldsmith who is lvl 50 be able to repair something that would require a leatherworkers expertise? wow sorry I can't wrap my head around the concept since in real life i wouldn't go to a mechanic when I had a cold or to a doctor when my car was having issues. I think that it should stay the same not all doh classes should be able to repair all the items whither it's a weapon or a silk scarf there's got be guide lines and if not it in a way makes repairs useless keep it to the classes they're supposed to be for don't make it all out.
Also granted this is a fantasy game but even in fantasy there is limitations on how much is fantasy and how much contains some type of reality.
And if you're thinking about doing it with all classes then it should be something you have the ability to do if you max out all said classes. Seriously though how many people are going to sit there and take the time to max all classes also we don't know if they're going to make it to where you can only lvl 1 class to max like they did in 11 or let you take them all up to their max levels. And honestly most people won't want to level all their doh because some of them might not find those classes interesting enough to play. I don't want to be a black smith. I'll happily pay a blacksmith to repair my gear or make me gear or buy it off the wards.
besides I believe the recent player poll kicked that idea out onto the street with what yoshi-p showed with the results so I doubt they're going to do that.
Most things are already obtainable via NPC if you know where to buy it, but people sell those same things cheaper. I am asking that those things be cheaper from NPC's so that if there is none at reasonable prices on the wards, people can go get it from an npc. The only thing this would do is make things more available. As it is most finished things are cheaper than the mats are and that isn't right, there needs to be some sort of proper regulation otherwise this basically player only economy is going to continue to suck.
Also, by your argument there shouldn't be affordable NPC repairs either nor should the set price for the new gear repair like there is now seeing is it regulates repair costs.
Nope, repairs can stay.
The fact is, it's a part of this game's economy and it works well now that they introduce Dark Matter.
It also helps pull Gil Back out of the economy for those who use the shortcut method. We've got enough inflation problem as is with 12million gil pieces of equipment for a triple meld, and that's on the low end.
That, and it's the most effective death penalty one can inflict to encourage surviving and excelling, rather than just repeatedly fail.
And it also gives more reason for Crafters to exist, which is a great thing. So no, no problems with the repair system as is on my end.
You are way overthinking things. If you wanted to go with that line of thinking and they took away repairs altogether well that isn't remotely realistic armor get damaged when it is worn from wear and tear. As he said should be mid level quests on crafter classes that allow you to obtain key items to repair all types of gear. You do have people who specialize in a little bit of everything and can do a lot of everything but not to the same degree as say an engineer could. For example my dad is an Engineer who fixes hospital equipment, though yesterday he fixed my brothers electrical damage in his house that was caused by lightning. He isn't a certified electrician nor is that his area of expertise but he has had some training in it and was able to repair the problem for no cost as than getting an Electrician do it for an absorbent amount.
There are handymen all around who do all kinds of jobs that they are specifically trained for like repairs mainly. So saying it isn't realistic is far fetched at the very least. How about them apples for over thinking things!?
What Hyrist said! I want to humbly add my opinion on the subject of repairs. For some of us, like myself, this is one of our sources of gil acquisition (as crafters). It also is something that makes the non-crafting community of FFXIV have more respect for the crafting community (appreciation etc).
All-in-all as much as a pain repairs may be, they do help us crafters feel more legitimate in a game that originally conveyed that crafting and gathering classes would be as respectable and honored as battle classes.
This is only my opinion but I really hope there are other crafters out there who agree with me on this subject. Thanks for taking the time to listen to another opinion. :)
I'm going to argue for repairs.
Argument 1: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...eakableWeapons
It's a staple of videogaming. Note the line about realism.
Argument 2: From a role-playing perspective, it makes sense that your DoHs can repair things.
Argument 3: Why a death penalty? Because without one there would be a number of scenarios that would be easier to defeat by dying and returning repeatedly. (Who hasn't offed the mob that just killed them even though just weakened, because the mob had low hp left? Or blood ported? Or if you played ffxi died and let your friend tractor you?)
If I were to let go of the realism. I'd agree to being able to repair things without changing classes as long as I had the necessary job at the necessary level.
Just make it so we can repair things without changing out of battle classes. Or make an item that crafters can make like a [Armorer's/Blacksmith's/whatever] consumable toolbox [1:1 piece of gear] that we can use on any class to repair things with that can be sold to other people/traded. Make the materials for the toolbox dark matter or something.
Really annoying invoking the 15 minute job ability cooldown just because I needed to repair something.
As someone who pays for two characters, I find the repair system incredibly annoying. I'm basically paying more to do more work. Even if we had a delivery box, I bet transferring damaged gear between characters on the same account would be impossible due to limitations, not like it would help, maybe shave a few minutes off repairing through the market wards..
then that would be a jack of a all trades and a master of none so why have different classes for doh period if want to think of it that way. only need a certain amount of expertise to make that stone into a gem or turn that iron into an ingot. It's not over thinking if a person wants to be able to repair all items then they should levels those classes my point is not everyone is going to do it. With the example you just gave for a real life issue. you're still running the risk of the job not being done correctly or the person may have electrical knowledge but shit i wouldn't want someone who isn't an electrician working on my electrical issues. just like again I wouldn't want someone who isn't an ear nose and throat specialist tell me how I'm supposed to cure the laryngitis I've had for over two months and quite frankly am still fighting because i'm being referred to another specialist in said field.
Again if they wanna make a key item like that then make it where they have to level all the classes not just one because again as i pointed out a goldsmith knows nothing about leatherworking. Kinda like having to get all your jobs to 30 so they can be a sub job. that I would have no issue with but not if they're not leveling said job needed.
get rid of item durability, that's what made me leave this game in the first place.
i felt like i'm being held back because of it, can't sell items til some doh willing to repair it.... wait, maybe that's the point? why would a doh repair your stuff so that you could sell it? why should they aid you so you can sell your stuff instead of buying from them?