Devs Please Be Careful Not To Disrespect Real Native Cultures In The New World

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

You need to print your character avatar with this sentence right underneath and stick it in your wall, because this applies to almost every post you make yourself.

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Actually so true lmao, this dude is always talking about "the vocal minority on the forums" "the majority enjoys the game and likes everything in the game and of course also loves healers"

he's always talking as a majority, yet he aint.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

There is no issue giving an under represented culture a moment via high fantasy, but if you all remember the in game Native American headdress controversy, which actually did upset people of specific communities, this expansion has to tread carefully.

Again, I think it’s really cool that they are doing this, but one misstep, and the media will never let it down. Especially after the comments about FFXVI being supposedly racist. Division III needs to be careful with racial comments, and how they represent cultures from now on.

I hope that the players, especially here in North America are not shy to mention if the dev team messes up on any of the representation. They need to hear it from us first. I do not believe the devs are intentionally racist, or harmful to any group of people. Yoshi P and his team are much more progressive than the majority of Japan. I do think they will listen to us if such a misstep happens. There have been numerous missteps that got fixed.

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The only fix is to just give us worlds full of jelly and goo. No structures or people, just hills and blobs of goo. Miles of ooze.
No significance of anything. Weapons are just sticky colorful substance.

Nothing that people could tie into the real world should be inspired from anymore because in this day and age, people virtue signal, white knight and get offended for others so easily.

I'm excited to play the game I paid for and to see the future content.
Give me sharlayan/thavnair or moon housing and amazing, beautiful, long hairs & I'm happily fed.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

This definitely sounds like a case of trying to act as if you're speaking for a wider community, but you're really just speaking for yourself.

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

forum challenge: take a shot every time someone vaguely mentions a silent majority (bonus shot if they change the number every time) or minority in their post

you will not survive.

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https://djq2q4f22hoou.cloudfront.net...oads/shots.gif

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

You need to print your character avatar with this sentence right underneath and stick it in your wall, because this applies to almost every post you make yourself.

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https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2...vPaw/giphy.gif

This was addressed during the lore section today at fanfest.

Banri Oda (paraphrased by Kate Cwynar): "it's really important that what we're trying to do is we're not trying to recreate reality. We're trying to imagine a world with perhaps similar locations but still fitting the history of FFXIV. But at the same time when we do draw on real life cultures and languages we want to develop an understanding and a respect for those cultures and we want to try to demonstrate that the best we can. And this is a real point of focus for 7.0. I can't say much about it but I will say that is something the team is very aware of. They're aware that we have not always made our goal demonstrating the proper respect for cultures in the past both as a game and as a franchise. We're really working on it."

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

Actually so true lmao, this dude is always talking about "the vocal minority on the forums" "the majority enjoys the game and likes everything in the game and of course also loves healers"

he's always talking as a majority, yet he aint.

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It’s just the smug holier than tho attitude that gets me to laugh everytime

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Originally Posted by Striker44

This definitely sounds like a case of trying to act as if you're speaking for a wider community, but you're really just speaking for yourself.

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Lol, every time I see this dude he's always acting like he's the community ambassador. You don't speak for me or the community. I'm glad you're enjoying the game, but many people have grievances they like to voice. Yeah I'm annoyed with the direction the game is going with lack of gameplay but I'm still playing and having fun with my friends.

Looks like a vacation expansion with a Twist to it. Not sure how good it be for content.

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Originally Posted by Koros

LMAO this is the best troll of the month. I had to spend a minute figuring out how to turn my forum interface back to English.

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The moderators really need to handle people like you who bait, and ruin the posts on these forums. These forums run rampant without moderation, and it shows. There needs to be actual consequences for the constant trolling, and brigading on here. It's a common sentiment in the fandom that the forums are a place you should never ever go to, or else be at your own risk of stress.

That is an embarrassing problem for a fandom to have. There has to be a middle ground between the excessive moderating we had earlier in FFXIVs forums, to the rampant trolling and brigading that happens now. You guys are being so unfair to me, and I'm not going to just sit here and be called a troll. I am not hiding behind anything. Google me. I'm literally by the name I use on here, there is NOTHING troll about me. I am just a fan with concerns trying to voice my concerns, but you guys get a kick out of laughing, brigading, and bullying people in this community. You troll me excessively hard, because unlike other people on here, I don't just sit by and say its okay. I stand up for myself, and tell people that I am uncomfortable. I know you won't stop, even if I ask you to, so I'm not going to waste my breath, but I will point out that people are getting fed up with this place, and the day will come that all this brigading, and bullying will be put to rest. It can only happen for so long before it breaks, and the fandom has an incident. All it takes is one media article for the company to wake up, and put the bad behavior on these forums to rest.

Instead of pushing peoples buttons, and making people feel worse about themselves, you should use this freedom, and lack of moderation for good. We are taking the relaxed mentality the mods have on these forums for granted. This freedom to say whatever we want here can be taken away. Not that you care, I know these trolls won't. They'll find some other games community to break.

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Originally Posted by vetch

It's perfectly appropriate to be cautious in advance of any issues when one can still point to a time that Square screwed up and didn't fix it, as they didn't when the Sami tribal council demanded they stop copying and selling Sami cultural property in the cash shop without consulting them.

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Love how there is actual evidence of tribes being mad at how they are portrayed, but you guys just want to yell at me, and go "haha they are a troll".

These forums are lost on reality.

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Originally Posted by Eisi

This was addressed during the lore section today at fanfest.

Banri Oda (paraphrased by Kate Cwynar): "it's really important that what we're trying to do is we're not trying to recreate reality. We're trying to imagine a world with perhaps similar locations but still fitting the history of FFXIV. But at the same time when we do draw on real life cultures and languages we want to develop an understanding and a respect for those cultures and we want to try to demonstrate that the best we can. And this is a real point of focus for 7.0. I can't say much about it but I will say that is something the team is very aware of. They're aware that we have not always made our goal demonstrating the proper respect for cultures in the past both as a game and as a franchise. We're really working on it."

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They admitted to doing wrong in the past, which is precisely why I brought this up in the first place. I'm just concerned, but these forums keeping being toxic and horrible as usual.

The anti woke fallacy leads to nothing but hate and lack of listening. All people want when they want people to look out for minorities, races, sexual orientation, gender identity, disabilities, etc. is for people to be kind. They aren't telling you to not do anything, or not say anything about how you feel. They are saying to try your best to be a kind and decent person who LISTENS to the world around them. Not the person who sweeps underprivileged people under the rug, and is fine with making them feel uncomfortable.

Literally no one here vouching for others is trying to be woke, or just tell you what to do. We just want people to be sensitive and kind. It's not a bad thing to want. Its not a bad thing to hope for. Its literally just promoting understanding and kindness. I care more about other peoples comfort and understanding, that they are heard, and listened to. That people who are not visible enough are spoken for, and given the chance at being seen as equal. That absolutely does apply to media. You wouldn't want to see something that you connect to yourself represented so horribly, and that's not to say that villains can't be gay, trans, a certain race, disability, or whatever. We just want good people to be seen in these roles, as well as the things around them, because it absolutely does have an effect on culture. Gaming is a HUGE market in media, and so we do need to be careful what messages we send out.

Hate sucks. It just completely utterly sucks. Its the most deprived thing, and a waste of your lives. Stop focusing on it, and just look to hope. Look to kindness, and promotion of hearing out other cultures that you may not understand. There is nothing wrong with that. Ever.

And I get that change and growth is frustrating. I get that people are burnt out of all of the criticisms that people have for society. We have been through a lot in our recent human history. I can completely accept that, but I will not give up on the good of humankind, and kindness values. Even if I'm tired. That is too selfish, and ignorant to do. It's okay to take a break from this kind of conversation, and take a step back. That is absolutely okay, but to rail on people for choosing to listen, and say HEY, we should do better about this.. its just heartless. I just want everyone to enjoy this game, and to hopefully not encounter an accidental stereotype of their culture. Inspiration is inspiration, but it still should be tasteful. There is no reason to make someone feel like they have to question if the game, or its fanbase supports them.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

There is no issue giving an under represented culture a moment via high fantasy, but if you all remember the in game Native American headdress controversy, which actually did upset people of specific communities, this expansion has to tread carefully.

Again, I think it’s really cool that they are doing this, but one misstep, and the media will never let it down. Especially after the comments about FFXVI being supposedly racist. Division III needs to be careful with racial comments, and how they represent cultures from now on.

I hope that the players, especially here in North America are not shy to mention if the dev team messes up on any of the representation. They need to hear it from us first. I do not believe the devs are intentionally racist, or harmful to any group of people. Yoshi P and his team are much more progressive than the majority of Japan. I do think they will listen to us if such a misstep happens. There have been numerous missteps that got fixed.

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Japan has a totally different outlook in culture.
So does Central/South and Latin America
We're just hype to see some of our culture represented in videogames.
Remember when Nintendo brought out the Sombrero Mario, and everyone on twitter started spewing poison?
But then mexicans walked in like "Dude, the fuck are you saying, WE LOVE THIS?"
Don't white knight other people's cultures. Don't assume, don't talk if you're not a native of that culture yourself.
If you are of Mayan, Incan, Mexica, or other Central/South American native ascendancy, then voice your concerns.
If you're just another white person online... just don't. I'm trying to say this as politely as I can.

Lmao we're being trolls because he posted something he has no business advocating for and we disagree with it. Okay buddy.

i hope this is a troll thread..

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

i hope this is a troll thread..

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I find your comment to be highly offensive towards trolls.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

This meme is XIV right now for a lot of people.

People who never liked MMOs came in and acted like the person on the left, and now a bunch of us who have loved XIV for years have seen it altered in a such a massive way that it no longer resembles the game we loved. Everything has been watered down and made simpler and less fun for the sake of people who never liked the genre that XIV was and was supposed to be. Just look at the relics as an example. Relics are a standard MMO grind, but now they're a braindead tome vendor because grinding is too hard/boring for people who don't like MMOs. Those people insisted that an MMO should abandon the genre it was supposed to be in because people who don't like MMOs want this game to be something it's not. Bozja and Eureka were designed for people who love MMOs, the Manderville relics were designed for people who hate MMOs. There's also far less content per patch because people who don't like MMOs only want to log in once every four months.

And now that the veteran fanbase is upset with these changes, we're being told to just leave because the game 'was never for us anyways' by people who hate everything Final Fantasy XIV used to be.

EDIT: This is pretty off-topic for the thread, so I might go repost this as it's own thread.

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So much this.

The team is more than likely already making sure they don't fall through any trap doors regarding negative cultural depictions but, the issue is and many make some very rational points; the goal posts are constantly being moved by this person that person in regards to what is respectful, what is disrespectful. IN A FICTIONAL FANTASY WORLD. Where fictional cultures and people only take vague inspirations and influence from real world cultures past, present.

Now It's common courtesy to make sure these interpretations, influences and such that are depicted are faithful to the cultures yes but beyond that? Nothing really needs doing worth writing essays about.
Being able do distinguish the line between Fictional cultures and Reality's is something so many fall short of grasping when having these conversations.
Despite what Twitter, Resetera and all those toxic swamps of the internet say; Fictional and fantasy depictions of colonialism, slavery, imperialism involving these fictional, fantasy cultures, are still fictional and fantasy. Not real life.

How hard is it to realize that I'm being bullied. Look at the disgusting tags people added to this thread in order to harass me. I'm definitely filing some reports, though I do want to stay civil, so I won't mention who. Just please do not harass, or target me. I'm not doing anything wrong by posting a concern that was meant to be kind.

Mods really need to step in and clear the trolls, and brigaders out of this forum. Again, there is a reason people call this place the worst place in the fandom to be. The majority of the playerbase does not like the forum culture here, and finds the forums too hostile to interact in. FFXIV forums are too toxic.

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Originally Posted by Asphhar

So much this.

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Agreed.

Awesome summed up the feeling of prettymuch every single veteran player, both casual and hardcore.

This is not XIV anymore. It is an online chat service for lonely teenagers. IMVU V2.0

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

Agreed.

Awesome summed up the feeling of prettymuch every single veteran player, both casual and hardcore.

This is not XIV anymore. It is an online chat service for lonely teenagers. IMVU V2.0

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I just call it Habbo Hotel. The game's difficulty floor has been reduced to the point of trying to forcibly encourage these kinds of players who have no real desire to engage with content anyways.
Now. They're more than free to use the game as a social hub if they want to, their choice, but if these choices and changes come at the cost of taking away the characteristics that make this game. Well, a GAME. Is it still even FFXIV?

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

How hard is it to realize that I'm being bullied. Look at the disgusting tags people added to this thread in order to harass me. I'm definitely filing some reports, though I do want to stay civil, so I won't mention who. Just please do not harass, or target me. I'm not doing anything wrong by posting a concern that was meant to be kind.

Mods really need to step in and clear the trolls, and brigaders out of this forum. Again, there is a reason people call this place the worst place in the fandom to be. The majority of the playerbase does not like the forum culture here, and finds the forums too hostile to interact in. FFXIV forums are too toxic.

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youre not being bullied. people disagree with your position

how sad that your response to criticism is to cry and play the victim

sad!

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

How hard is it to realize that I'm being bullied. Look at the disgusting tags people added to this thread in order to harass me. I'm definitely filing some reports, though I do want to stay civil, so I won't mention who. Just please do not harass, or target me. I'm not doing anything wrong by posting a concern that was meant to be kind.

Mods really need to step in and clear the trolls, and brigaders out of this forum. Again, there is a reason people call this place the worst place in the fandom to be. The majority of the playerbase does not like the forum culture here, and finds the forums too hostile to interact in. FFXIV forums are too toxic.

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Your not being bullied people are only disagreeing. People need to stop the sjw cancel culture or being offened on other cultures behalf when there not a part of the culture.

I think folks need to realize that just because a FANTASY game takes inspiration from real-world cultures doesn't mean they have to represent those cultures 100% accurately. It is FANTASY and inspiration, not representation. I feel Gen Z, in particular, is just out to be offended by something 24/7.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

I think folks need to realize that just because a FANTASY game takes inspiration from real-world cultures doesn't mean they have to represent those cultures 100% accurately. It is FANTASY and inspiration, not representation. I feel Gen Z, in particular, is just out to be offended by something 24/7.

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This.
It's certainly a good thing to be respectful and mindful of what inspiration and cultural references to apply to these fictional people, in fantasy worlds of course but that's unfortunately not quite good enough for the terminally online because they can't fully comprehend the distinction between fiction and reality.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

I think folks need to realize that just because a FANTASY game takes inspiration from real-world cultures doesn't mean they have to represent those cultures 100% accurately. It is FANTASY and inspiration, not representation. I feel Gen Z, in particular, is just out to be offended by something 24/7.

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Wouldn't say Gen Z but more people in general regardless of age. It has to do with them seeing some person they never heard of suddenly appear all over the place because they complained/claimed offense/etc of something and it went "viral" on the internet. So now they're trying to get that attention too.

You do play Final Fantasy right? The series who uses deities from multiple cultures to represent boss fights and normal monsters? The games that uses culutural garb of many cultures as armor sets? Do you not understand fantasy? Do you not understand how native american cultures and ways of life can be useful in a fantasy setting just like a king and a castle or a samurai? Or a ninja? or a chakram wielding dancer? You think its okay to have cultural garb of china, japan, persia, africa, etc etc but not native american cultural garb?

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

How hard is it to realize that I'm being bullied. Look at the disgusting tags people added to this thread in order to harass me. I'm definitely filing some reports, though I do want to stay civil, so I won't mention who. Just please do not harass, or target me. I'm not doing anything wrong by posting a concern that was meant to be kind.

Mods really need to step in and clear the trolls, and brigaders out of this forum. Again, there is a reason people call this place the worst place in the fandom to be. The majority of the playerbase does not like the forum culture here, and finds the forums too hostile to interact in. FFXIV forums are too toxic.

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There have been only 2 instances in all the time I have visited the forums that I read something and laughed like crazy.
This is one of them.
I'm dying.

This is a satire user/post right?

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

There have been only 2 instances in all the time I have visited the forums that I read something and laughed like crazy.
This is one of them.
I'm dying.

This is a satire user/post right?

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Yeah: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-is-concerning

He said this once: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...37#post5577337

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Why the hell do people have to be so mean on these forums. Ever since this game took the #1 mmo spot, this place has become forums savage. Our community seriously needs to have a better look at itself again.

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Titanmen (who is totally not me) copied him 4 days later:

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Originally Posted by Drakonic

Exactly. Why the hell do people have to be so mean on these forums. Ever since this game took the #1 mmo spot, this place has become forums savage. Our community seriously needs to have a better look at itself again.

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And he was like "agree!!"

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

THANK YOU. I'm so glad you noticed. I want people to be kinder to each other again, and not hold each other based on what mistakes they think they did. I feel like the community has dealt with covid isolation for so long, that we forgot we were a positive community in the mmo scene. :/

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Originally Posted by Drakonic

Exactly. You continuously ask them to stop, and they do not cease. What is honestly wrong with them? Why do they get off on harassing you? This is so sad :/

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https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5580480

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Originally Posted by Lanadra

Hahahaha. I had to admit I got a laugh out of that one because I know you're literally just quoting Damian's own posts.

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Anyways take from that exchange what you will.

Honestly OP is really funny, I love him:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-need-retuning.

Those were the days though, we had an active Damian, MPK, WoW, Lacan, t0rn, ahhh.... now it's just me

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Originally Posted by Ivtrix

youre not being bullied. people disagree with your position

how sad that your response to criticism is to cry and play the victim

sad!

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Originally Posted by Nebelheim

Your not being bullied people are only disagreeing. People need to stop the sjw cancel culture or being offened on other cultures behalf when there not a part of the culture.

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Are you guys eyes open? Simple disagreement doesn't involve "snowflake, offended on others behalf, lmao, no one cares". That is in fact meant to bully and/or take shots at the OP. Crazy when folks you agree with say stuff like this it's just simple disagreement. Yet let that come from someone you don't and you'd call em trolls. Sjw cancel culture, buzzword buzzword buzzword.

As for you OP you do need to chill. This is a fictional piece and should be treated as such. I'd be with you if they came out n said they're going for an accurate representation of these areas but they haven't. Let the devs be creative as worries like this could stifle that.

I'm a mexican, and the trailer shows inspiration from mesoamerican cultures, not native american.
Plenty of mexican friends are excited too, and we find it funny is non-mexicans who usually get offended with this...

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Are you guys eyes open? Simple disagreement doesn't involve "snowflake, offended on others behalf, lmao, no one cares". That is in fact meant to bully and/or take shots at the OP. Crazy when folks you agree with say stuff like this it's just simple disagreement. Yet let that come from someone you don't and you'd call em trolls. Sjw cancel culture, buzzword buzzword buzzword.

As for you OP you do need to chill. This is a fictional piece and should be treated as such. I'd be with you if they came out n said they're going for an accurate representation of these areas but they haven't. Let the devs be creative as worries like this could stifle that.

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That’s cap now go sit in the corner on packwatch fr fr

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Originally Posted by AlexiaD

South american servers would basically be a double of materia, empty worlds with barely anyone on them, no cross DC travel because of "limitations" too, it'd basically be a wasteland from day 1, so no, no point.

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https://gamerescape.com/2023/07/29/n...fan-fest-2023/

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Naoki Yoshida: I do want to mention that the technical aspects of traveling between North America, Europe, Japan, and Oceania data centers is built. That said, we need to observe the culture between the different regions- it differs significantly. Is it okay to just suddenly open the floodgates for everyone to intermingle? I’m afraid we still don’t have enough information to have the confidence to open that up because we would have different communities jumbled together. We’d like to continue to look at how DC travel is being utilized and what the situation is like and take our time to assess before we consider inter-region travel.

If the question is “Are you considering it or not?” Yes, we are considering it. I’ve been having many discussions with our super server engineer, whether we can do it this way or that way. We’ve been having these meetings on multiple occasions and we had one recently even. Whenever we have these discussions, we always end up saying this… “[groaning sound] Oh, we’re gonna have to talk about this in the next meeting.”

So I mean, yeah there are many challenges that we have to overcome from a technical perspective and infrastructure perspective. But a challenge is a challenge and we want to overcome that challenge and we don’t want to give up on that idea. I think that’s what makes my team very talented and that’s what their strength is. We’re tying to figure out how we can work this out.

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They already have the tech but don't want to implement it.
Reading between the lines it looks to me like "Japanese gamers will get upset if the see people speaking english"

Ivtrix: I dont know how much reading you do, but theres a book by Gary Jennings, "Aztec", I recommend it.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

There is no issue giving an under represented culture a moment via high fantasy, but if you all remember the in game Native American headdress controversy, which actually did upset people of specific communities, this expansion has to tread carefully.

Again, I think it’s really cool that they are doing this, but one misstep, and the media will never let it down. Especially after the comments about FFXVI being supposedly racist. Division III needs to be careful with racial comments, and how they represent cultures from now on.

I hope that the players, especially here in North America are not shy to mention if the dev team messes up on any of the representation. They need to hear it from us first. I do not believe the devs are intentionally racist, or harmful to any group of people. Yoshi P and his team are much more progressive than the majority of Japan. I do think they will listen to us if such a misstep happens. There have been numerous missteps that got fixed.

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Pal it's a fantasy game not the real world. Dunno what you guys are on but they really respectfully handled the new world tribes in the bluemage questlines and in the past they also showed some mongolian culture etc. with the Xaela tribes.

The people who cry about it are usually dumb white knights who aren't even part of these groups of people.

Also Japanese don't give a kupo about your feelings usually, seen by literally every game and anime having a fascist empire in them. xD Don't really get how a mere outfit is the worst but the garlean empire gassing innocent people, yes they did that in Ala Mhigo, is totally ok! People and their morals are weird.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Ivtrix: I dont know how much reading you do, but theres a book by Gary Jennings, "Aztec", I recommend it.

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we dont agree on a lot but i will add it to the queue, thanks for the recommendation

Im currently reading through "From Cold War to Hot Peace" by Michael McFaul, modern history is a lot more my preference but I will give it a read

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Originally Posted by Ivtrix

we dont agree on a lot but i will add it to the queue, thanks for the recommendation

Im currently reading through "From Cold War to Hot Peace" by Michael McFaul, modern history is a lot more my preference but I will give it a read

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OOOOH thank you in return. Ill grab it on Kindle. I dont know if it was HS reading material for you, but Shirers Rise and Fall of the Third Reich was part of our curriculum. Jennings wrote a second book for this series , btw, called Aztec Autumn. Brilliant. Haunting.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

/facepalm

Okay, I get people are well meaning with this sort of thing...but for the love of all that's holy AND unholy, people can't walk on eggshells and still have a functional world. And I mean real world. Mistakes happen, and that's Human. If people aren't trying to insult people, folks need to stop attacking them for it.

FICTIONAL worlds are FICTIONAL. They may resemble or take ques from our world, but they aren't our world.

The worst part is when it's selective outrage. Heavensward was not an attack on Catholics and Christians, despite taking inspiration from middle-ages Europe (specifically France/Franks). I don't recall any "controversy" about "killing the pope" (in fact, it's a meme). No one came to the defense of Europeans being portrayed badly by Ishgardians.

At the end of the day, homages and the like are just that, and this team are not insulting in their intent. If people have issues with specific things, and are PART OF THE COMMUNITIES that are supposedly slighted, that's fine, they can voice their concerns. But people need to stop selective outrage (on behalf of some groups but not others) and taking on offense for the sake of other people instead of letting those people speak for themselves (things like "white savior complex"; people are able to speak for themselves, let them - you can support them, but don't deign to speak in their place, let them have their own voice).

.

If people aren't intentionally insulting, then that's what matters. A perceived MAYBE insult isn't it. No more eggshells, please.

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works of fiction can have influence from the real world. like, you know that, right? and fictional works can, subsequently, have a real impact on how real world matters are perceived - ESPECIALLY in regards to real-world cultures. you bring up HW, but HW could read as a critique of corruption in the Catholic Church, or how corruption can run deep in any organized religion. kungane is literally based on asian cultures and countries. this is such a dumb, nothing argument.

i'll put in my two cents as a latina: i need to see more of this expansion before i can fully judge it, but so far, i'm not enjoying this take on latinoamerican cultures as one blendered mix of just... whatever. all latinoamerican countries have such distinct practices, histories, societies, etc. it's not uncommon for people to just assume we're all the same. but latinoamerican cultures are actually very diverse, and i'd find it incredibly insulting (and extremely disappointing) to have a game i love reflect this interpretation that latinoamerican cultures are all the same by being condensed down into one monolithic mush

edit: i have more to say! oops! i already saw someone say:

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Originally Posted by Iscah

It's an RPG. This looks like a "where the story is going" teaser (and where it is going looks pretty interesting). And those conspicuous people must be the main cast that older players would recognise?

Plus you get to fight some kind of giant two-headed Mayincaztec demon thing with giant swords. Cool.

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like... come on. "some giant two-headed Mayincaztec demon thing"? are you kidding me? i get that this is a funny quip and all, so don't take this to heart or anything, but that's such an insensitive thing to say that most non-latino people probably wouldn't even bat an eye over - and we had, what, not even three minutes of teaser footage released? i'm tentatively willing to trust square enix, but their previous track record leaves little room for me to be hopeful, and comments like this don't help solidify that, either.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aldath

I'm a mexican, and the trailer shows inspiration from mesoamerican cultures, not native american.
Plenty of mexican friends are excited too, and we find it funny is non-mexicans who usually get offended with this...

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As a latino, I find it disgusting how white folk have gotten this agenda to be "offended" for us as if we asked for them to be our voice for cultural appropriation. Its so obvious that these people only care to control the narrative and to inflate their own egos and not actually care about the people they're trying to defend. Case in point, when people started to try to cancel Speedy Gonzalez because its racist but they never realized most hispanic groups actually like the character.

Seriously for anyone who does this. Please stop. All what you're doing is preventing for other cultures to be shared in media because somehow non-European culture is categorized as a political agenda rather than an interest and expression of it

YOU DONT SPEAK FOR US, NOR DO YOU SPEAK FOR OTHER CULTURES. As a latino, I'm really excited to see South American representation in FFXIV.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

As a latino, I find it disgusting how white folk have gotten this agenda to be "offended" for us as if we asked for them to be our voice for cultural appropriation. Its so obvious that these people only care to control the narrative and to inflate their own egos and not actually care about the people they're trying to defend. Case in point, when people started to try to cancel Speedy Gonzalez because its racist but they never realized most hispanic groups actually like the character.

Seriously for anyone who does this. Please stop. All what you're doing is preventing for other cultures to be shared in media because somehow non-European culture is categorized as a political agenda rather than an interest and expression of it

YOU DONT SPEAK FOR US, NOR DO YOU SPEAK FOR OTHER CULTURES. As a latino, I'm really excited to see South American representation in FFXIV.

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TBH people like that exist in every culture. The difference is that people in the US tend to make it a point to be as obnoxious as possible with it so it's far more noticeable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

TBH people like that exist in every culture. The difference is that people in the US tend to make it a point to be as obnoxious as possible with it so it's far more noticeable.

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Not really. Getting offended FOR OTHERS (Without even caring to ask, mind you) is something that I've only seen from white Statesians. I haven't seen any other demographic group jump ip trying to whiteknight others, at all.

y'all have been nothing but nasty, mean, and dismissive to OP. all of you crying and whining about how "don't speak on this if you aren't latino!" are probably not even latino yourselves, but you're so quick to jump in and isolate this fight into Latinos vs. Everyone Else. as a latino... i find this extremely weird behavior! hm! why might Non-latinos want people who are Not Latinos to shut up about a Latino Issue? could it be... to weaken Latino voices being amplified...? could it be... to silence valid concerns being raised? huh... maybe, just maybe...

it's just jawdropping to see so many people raise a "it's a fictional world with fictional cultures and therefore has absolutely no real effect on the real-world" argument regarding a game which draws from real-life inspiration to promote certain messaging in its themes. for example: Fascism... is bad. Colonialism and imperialism... is bad. Capitalist systems...are convenient for the wealthy, who can afford luxury, but are quick to screw over non-subservient working class people. yes, it's a fictional story. so are all of Aesop's fables, and yet i really hope y'all clearly had no issues comprehending those as stories used to teach when y'all were kids. the complete refusal to engage with a story and its themes critically is astounding. FFXIV doesn't ask much of the player, either. like, y'all realize fictional stories have always had, and will always have, an impact on real-world people, real-world societies, and real-world perceptions of cultures, right?

i have no problem discussing something like this with other latinos - i, myself, am really excited to see more of latinoamerican culture have the spotlight! i love to see that other latinos are really excited about this new expansion and are picking up on inspiration from indigenous cultures, from countries like brasil and peru! but when i engage other latinos in a discussion like that, we think critically about ALL the implications a story, its cast, and its themes may have, and i expect non-latinos to be able to do this too. if you're a non-latino, you're allowed to go, "i may be overly cautious here, but i hope square enix (a company with a not-so-perfect track record, but which has at least attempted to show some decency and respect to other cultures and depictions of those cultures) is careful with their representation here..." that's literally such a non-issue. if you're going to jump to "CANCEL CULTURE" and "WOKE SJW TWITTERITE SNOWFLAKES" (and "you're not even latino!" when you, yourself, aren't latino either) instead of, i dunno, bothering to critically engage with something, then you honestly don't deserve to be heard at all. leave the real discussions to people who are willing to give a shit.