Naoki Yoshida says negative comments from trolls are "tiresome"

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

There is a vast difference between the hostile trolling I have seen, and genuine actual feedback. Constructive feedback is always welcome. Trolling and some of the vitriol I have seen dished out here?

No.



Where and when did this happen?

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We will reach the end of the universe and forum users will still think the forums have any relevance.

None of the "trolling" any of you have seen is what Yoshi P is talking about lmao

It is funny to me, though, that the virtuous cycle of non-moderation, delusional posting, and performance art trolling has resulted in the game's own official forums becoming the least useful and least respected place of discussion outside of Japan. It's no mean feat to become less relevant than Reddit, and yet: here we are.

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Originally Posted by Sindele

It is funny to me, though, that the virtuous cycle of non-moderation, delusional posting, and performance art trolling has resulted in the game's own official forums becoming the least useful and least respected place of discussion outside of Japan. It's no mean feat to become less relevant than Reddit, and yet: here we are.

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lmao yes blame the posters and moderation

It's irrelevant because the community managers do not care about feedback. Everywhere is as equally irrelevant as the forums. They don't care about Reddit or Twitter either. Only place they care about is 2ch.

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Originally Posted by Koros

lmao yes blame the posters and moderation

It's irrelevant because the community managers do not care about feedback. Everywhere is as equally irrelevant as the forums. They don't care about Reddit or Twitter either. Only place they care about is 2ch.

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Unfortunately, probably not wrong, since Yoshida seems to be "surprised" by a lot of our feedback here.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

I'm not the one simping for a dude who doesn't know either of us exist lol

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"Trolls suck"

"yeah that's true"

"SIMP!"


yuhuh.

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Originally Posted by Koros

lmao yes blame the posters and moderation

It's irrelevant because the community managers do not care about feedback. Everywhere is as equally irrelevant as the forums. They don't care about Reddit or Twitter either. Only place they care about is 2ch.

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Who else, exactly, exists in the equation to blame? Where there is a forum, there are posters; where there are posters, there are (or are not) mods. All other forces are extraneous to this eternal power struggle. You know and I know that posting does not cease no matter how good or bad things are.

Unless you intend to start blaming God for the state of the forums, I'm pretty comfortable pointing at the only two players on the field.

And if you think the CMs don't keep tabs on the state of the various communities are in and have opinions on them, that's an unexpectedly naive take for you!

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

FWIW, he is almost certainly talking about comments from JP. It's extremely funny that a few people in this thread think Yoshida is sitting here reading the incredibly mild comments on the English forums and getting upset.

Certain elements of the JP gaming community are INCREDIBLY unhinged and hateful. I browse 5ch sometimes and there are some absolutely deranged threads that make these forums look like the nicest place on earth in comparison.

There are threads dedicated to bullying YoshiP on 2ch/5ch, wherein people post all kinds of insane accusations and personal information about him..

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That is really messed up.

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Originally Posted by Sindele

Who else, exactly, exists in the equation to blame? Where there is a forum, there are posters; where there are posters, there are (or are not) mods. All other forces are extraneous to this eternal power struggle. You know and I know that posting does not cease no matter how good or bad things are.

Unless you intend to start blaming God for the state of the forums, I'm pretty comfortable pointing at the only two players on the field.

And if you think the CMs don't keep tabs on the state of the various communities are in and have opinions on them, that's an unexpectedly naive take for you!

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"Detroit is poor because the citizens are rowdy and the police don't care, not because the government stopped caring about it and tune out all their complaints"

"Oh but if you think the government doesn't care, they actually do! That's why they never appear in Detroit and throw out all of Detroit's votes"

edit: since sin is crying about this just change detroit to vanillaville lmao, imagine thinking this is political

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Originally Posted by Sindele

Really, pivoting to charged political comparisons first? No patience. You're better than this!

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sry i will not make the mistake of taking you seriously and respecting you again

Really, pivoting to charged political comparisons first? No patience. You're better than this!

E: "imagine thinking a comparison to literal politics is political" wat

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

I feel FFXVI got a lot of undeserved hate. I thought it was one of the best entries in the mainline series, gorgeous zones, fantastic music and some of the best written characters we've seen. And it felt very much like any other FF title.

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Excuse me? Either your eyes need a check-up or you haven't played a lot of SE games.
Valisthea is by far and large the most uninspired looking setting in Square-Enix history. The only thing it has that sets itself apart from being the most barebones medieval land any artist who never designed a high fantasy environment could do are the structures from the Fallen and the giant mothercrystals.
Gorgeous graphics... Generic design. Doesn't hold a candle to the creativity of the design of even the worst of the FFs of the last twenty years. Maps are like two third just narrow corridors with nothing interesting going on visually or wide areas that are completely barren or plagued by arbitrarily placed invisible walls that any other company of SE's caliber left behind in the Xbox 360 generation.
The game only did the lead characters/villains and boss fights well. Everything else falls short compared to every single source of inspiration for its systems and scenario. It's a dated, symptom of how terrible SE is at managing their budget resulting in style over substance mediocre experiences with archaic conservative game design that teams with less than half their resources have long since surpassed.
They're just lucky people thirsty for nostalgia see "Final Fantasy" in the title and throw money at them regardless.

Wait a sec, why would Yoshi P browse 2ch if that is what he is referring about?

Reading up on 2ch that apparently its very vile (from what I'm reading about it).

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Originally Posted by Kaliesto

Wait a sec, why would Yoshi P browse 2ch if that is what he is referring about?

Reading up on 2ch that apparently its very vile (from what I'm reading about it).

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And if he's so bothered by tiresome troll reactions maybe he should stop reading feedback directly. Unhinged fan reactions online have existed since Internet Explorer 4 days.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

"Trolls suck"

"yeah that's true"

"SIMP!"


yuhuh.

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It's interesting how any sympathy, or mear agreement towards Yoshi, seems to make one a target for the simp/SE devout card. Like yeah there are times when hero worship needs to be called out in famdoms, and I am all for sheding light on the evils of capitalism, but come on. This place is painfully dry for simping. If people are doing it, then the few who do are very lazy at it or just trolling.

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Originally Posted by Hurlstone

It's interesting how any sympathy, or mear agreement towards Yoshi, seems to make one a target for the simp/SE devout card.

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Yoshi P is crying over literally nothing, some people said that he should get some thicker skin, and then Krotoan responded with this:

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

YoshiP: Trolls suck.

Trolls: OMG GET A THICKER SKIN, CAN'T YOU EVEN TAKE ANY CRITICISM, WHY ARE YOU EVEN THE ONE IN YOUR JOB

.... Yes they do.

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This is simping. This is the type of stuff I'd expect from a tier 3 sub when someone criticizes their favorite Twitch streamer.

I'll also just assume that you haven't seen the SE simps in the recent threads about the mogstation items.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

YoshiP: Trolls suck.


Trolls: OMG GET A THICKER SKIN, CAN'T YOU EVEN TAKE ANY CRITICISM, WHY ARE YOU EVEN THE ONE IN YOUR JOB


.... Yes they do.

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Very much this. It's almost like our local trolls feel personally attacked.

Them: "We aren't trolls."
Someone: "Trolls are bad..."
Them: "WE TAKE GREAT OFFENSE TO THAT!!"

EDIT:

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

This is simping.

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That's not simping. Do you even know what words you use mean?

You calling that simping is pretty much you being the kind of negative poster that the OP is decrying.

When someone says trolls are bad - this is an agreeable position. When you or those like you attack those agreeing and they point it out, that's not them simping. That's them calling out your BS.

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Originally Posted by Renathras

When someone says trolls are bad - this is an agreeable position.

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If you go out of your way to remove literally all of the context from everything that was said here, yes it is an agreeable position. However, this statement becomes a less agreeable position depending on who you're considering as a troll.

Yoshi P was indeed complaining about trolls, however the examples he gave weren't trolls, but instead people giving genuine criticism or expressing disappointment in the direction of FFXVI. Thus his argument is flawed, and some of us here said that he should grow thicker skin if that's what he sees as bad faith trolling. Krotoan then decided to leap into the way of that criticism and label the ones saying that as offended trolls. That is simp behavior. You are also participating in this behavior with your posts both here and in your 'doomium' thread.

You either ignored all of this context or found it too inconvenient to acknowledge.

Goblin... Hobgoblin... Orc... Wait... Did FF16 even have Trolls? I can't recall seeing one in the 5 hours or so I got to play the game between the cutscenes and unplayable exposition.

Yes there are many upset over what FF16 turned out to be. Much of it is honestly justified. However the presentation of that feeling leaves much to be desired in many cases.

The real issue I have atm is that it seems Yoshi-P doesn't understand the actual reasons so many people are upset in the first place in addition to the expectations long time Final Fantasy fans had for the first mainline FF game made specifically for the newest Generation console.

I've not fully condemned the title for not meeting my expectations. However to me FF16 felt like the latest in their recent attempts to create a new side series but got cold feet over the number of new IP's that failed to perform as they hoped. So they slapped the FF16 label on it knowing the label would sell just about anything.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

Yoshi P is crying over literally nothing,

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""There's a lot of people who just yell at you, people I've never seen, met, or talked to before. It's weird. What did we do to them? Perhaps they just write it from a place of negativity and malice. It's tiresome."

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This is hardly "crying". At worst this is just a lot of words for a sigh. Did he say he was gonna go home and hug his knees and cry for hours because people said mean things on the internet? .. What would the ever thick skinned .. AwesomeJr44 do in this situation?

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

some people said that he should get some thicker skin,
.

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And just never complain? Never respond to an interview or to people around him with his real feelings?

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

This is simping. This is the type of stuff I'd expect from a tier 3 sub when someone criticizes their favorite Twitch streamer.

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I know you'd REALLY like to project this "omg YoshiP simp" thing on me. But he's the guy responsible for directing a couple games I'm enjoying. Maybe I'd buy him a drink if I ever met him.. but aside from paying to play a couple of the games he's in charge of I've never put any money towards him personally nor do I follow much else of what he does. I don't buy games cause his name is on them. I think he can make mistakes and he's promised some things that didn't go as stated. He's a human, same as me and... debateably you. Deserving of the same consideration and basic courtesy.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

Yoshi P was indeed complaining about trolls, however the examples he gave weren't trolls

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Except those were just the things they put on screen. AFAIK he doesn't personally give any particular examples.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

, but instead people giving genuine criticism or expressing disappointment in the direction of FFXVI. Thus his argument is flawed, and some of us here said that he should grow thicker skin if that's what he sees as bad faith trolling. Krotoan then decided to leap into the way of that criticism and label the ones saying that as offended trolls.

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There are valid complaints about the game sure. No game is perfect and I've had a lot of my friends voice gripes. But your entire response is "if these are the complaints then he needs to grow a thicker skin" when you don't know if this is what he's talking about and you don't since he doesn't reference them directly, he just says he finds people yelling at him tiresome.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

You either ignored all of this context or found it too inconvenient to acknowledge.

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Your "context" is your assumptions about him.


All I know is he said people he didn't know yelling at him was tiresome because that was the entire bit.

Sorry you got so offended that I called you a troll. Maybe you should grow some thicker skin =]

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

And just never complain? Never respond to an interview or to people around him with his real feelings?

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It depends on what he's complaining about. If he's complaining about people who don't like the direction he's taking his games, that's being thin-skinned. The examples that were given of 'trolls' were people who didn't like the direction he took his games. if he showed examples of genuine harassment against him, then maybe more people would be willing to grant some sympathy. However, the examples were bad and he comes off as overreacting to nothing.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Except those were just the things they put on screen. AFAIK he doesn't personally give any particular examples.

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Like I said earlier in the thread, unless better or more provable examples are given, I can either assume that he's overreacting or outright lying. I have chosen the former as it is more generous and fair. Too many developers in the industry have lied/overreacted about this stuff before for him to get the benefit of the doubt. At the end of the day, he's a businessman. He's not our friend.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

But your entire response is "if these are the complaints then he needs to grow a thicker skin" when you don't know if this is what he's talking about and you don't since he doesn't reference them directly, he just says he finds people yelling at him tiresome.

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When said examples are so harmless, there either needs to be a better example put forth, or the assumption that he is overreacting will be made. If Yoshi P says "oh by the way, here's a bunch of examples of the really bad stuff I was referring to", and he shows things that are genuinely hateful, then I'll show him some sympathy.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

He's a human, same as me and... debateably you

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Is this an insinuation that I might not a human being because I don't have a bleeding heart or because I don't take people's words at face value when the evidence behind them is flimsy? Seems like an odd claim to make but ok.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Sorry you got so offended that I called you a troll.

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If you call someone a troll, and then they state the fact that you called them a troll when explaining the situation to a third party, that is not taking offense. I genuinely don't need an apology, real or false.

Besides, you're going to have to try harder than calling me a troll to actually offend me.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

It depends on what he's complaining about. If he's complaining about people who don't like the direction he's taking his games, that's being thin-skinned. The examples that were given of 'trolls' were people who didn't like the direction he took his games. if he showed examples of genuine harassment against him, then maybe more people would be willing to grant some sympathy. However, the examples were bad and he comes off as overreacting to nothing.

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The picture someone posted of what was on screen which may or may not have been what he was talking about. He never references them directly nor should he. Considering he DOES have fanatical followers those people could be tracked down and likely would end up with undeserved repercussions.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

Like I said earlier in the thread, unless better or more provable examples are given, I can either assume that he's overreacting or outright lying.

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Or.. you can understand it's a video piece and an editing choice and go off what he says alone. That is probably a more reasonable approach.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

I have chosen the former as it is more generous and fair.

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Of your two horrible assumptions. Great.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

Too many developers in the industry have lied/overreacted about this stuff before for him to get the benefit of the doubt. At the end of the day, he's a businessman.

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He's just a guy. Unique as everyone else is. Seeing him a certain way because OTHERS who happen to be in the same business have done things is pretty bad.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

When said examples are so harmless, there either needs to be a better example put forth, or the assumption that he is overreacting will be made. If Yoshi P says "oh by the way, here's a bunch of examples of the really bad stuff I was referring to", and he shows things that are genuinely hateful, then I'll show him some sympathy.

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1. People who say crap like that want attention.. like you. Best not to reproduce their bile.

2. He's not even asking for sympathy. He's just commenting.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

Is this an insinuation that I might not a human being because I don't have a bleeding heart or because I don't take people's words at face value when the evidence behind them is flimsy? Seems like an odd claim to make but ok.

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Nah. It's a poke at your humanity at all. AFAIK you're a puppet troll account and a personality SOMEONE is putting on to be abrasive at every opportunity.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

If you call someone a troll, and then they state the fact that you called them a troll when explaining the situation to a third party, that is not taking offense. I genuinely don't need an apology, real or false.

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So I don't get to say when you've taken offense when you're constantly defending your take.. but you get to state someone is "crying" when they say "it's tiresome".

.. Right.

This isn't the first time YoshiP has said something like this. He's said similar things during live letters in the past, so this is nothing new. This is a stressful position to be in, and, unfortunately, in a world like ours, where the internet basically raises children for their parents, he really does need to have a thicker skin or else leave reading the harsher comments to professionals.

And, of course: he talks about the Japanese comments in particular, so the same 5 or so people are pointing fingers and screeching "I told you so" at anyone who admits to not enjoying the game in the same way that they do. Predictable.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Your "context" is your assumptions about him.

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To be fair, you're ignoring at least 1/3 of their posted arguments, so you probably don't even realize what the assumptions (there were several hypotheticals, each of them depicting different scenarios) are, other than "he should get a thicker skin."
...And he should. Life is much easier to handle when your skin is thick enough to withstand the mosquito bite sting of a teenager saying "omfg this game is diarrhea shitstains swirling in a piss tea of a mom's dad-taint lolomgwtfbbq," and people who unironically put "=]" in their posts.

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

To be fair, you're ignoring at least 1/3 of their posted arguments, so you probably don't even realize what the assumptions (there were several hypotheticals, each of them depicting different scenarios) are,

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I read their post. I know what they are. I don't believe I've ignored any of it since I address the original assumption it's all based on.

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

other than "he should get a thicker skin."
...And he should. Life is much easier to handle when your skin is thick enough to withstand the mosquito bite sting of a teenager saying "omfg this game is diarrhea shitstains swirling in a piss tea of a mom's dad-taint lolomgwtfbbq,"

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So again.. I ask.. what should he have said?
Is the "it's tiresome" just SO MUCH of a thin skinned response? Did he break down in tears?

There's lots of pictures of "sad YoshiP" sure, but what is the "thicker skin" response supposed to be? Just stoic silence forever even when asked about his job? "yeah I read stuff online to see how it's doing "..... end quote.

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

and people who unironically put "=]" in their posts.

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What's wrong with a smiley?

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Is the "it's tiresome" just SO MUCH of a thin skinned response?

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When considering the examples given, yes. It's like lightly tapping someone on the arm and asking if it hurt. If they say yes, there's something wrong. It should barely even register.

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

This is a stressful position to be in, and, unfortunately, in a world like ours, where the internet basically raises children for their parents, he really does need to have a thicker skin or else leave reading the harsher comments to professionals.

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Yep.

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

And, of course: he talks about the Japanese comments in particular, so the same 5 or so people are pointing fingers and screeching "I told you so" at anyone who admits to not enjoying the game in the same way that they do. Predictable.

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Yoshi was whining about FFXVI feedback and somehow fanatical FFXIV fans once again weaponized it to attack the people who aren't 100% happy with FFXIV right now. Just like they did with the "take a break if you're going to burn out" statement.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

"when considering the examples given".. I guess you're just going to hang on to that one. He did not give examples.

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Ok then, it's even worse.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

I read their post. I know what they are. I don't believe I've ignored any of it since I address the original assumption it's all based on.

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Well, according to the rationale they posted most recently, particularly in response to the good ol' boy Ren, yes, YoshiP's statement, combined with the types of complaints we did get to see, for whatever reason, do not really sit right together.
But, prior to that post, they had made other posts explaining other potential scenarios, including those where we just don't have the full picture. I'm pretty sure that, therefore, it's not a single assumption, it's just the one that is being discussed and the one that you happened to step in and cling to.

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So again.. I ask.. what should he have said?

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Well, since several forum users like to discuss the validity of feedback based upon whether or not it meets the needs and standards of a caricatured polite society, perhaps he should have said
"Look, humans: I, YoshiP, understand that there is frustration, however I am getting old, and these rings on my finger are getting heavier as my muscles atrophy in age, so I just don't have the patience to sift through your dagger packages or plane tickets to Brazil. If you could, please provide your feedback in a way that a man with as many rings under his bark as I do can understand. For example, instead of saying 'FFXIV is so dumb that my own mother beat me up for being a degen' please tell me what makes it so dumb, and perhaps why your mother beat you up for it."
He's made longer statements in the past, and even less coherent ones than that made up rambling I just wrote, so I don't believe it would be beyond him to do that. Particularly if he actually wants it to stop and believes that he's not getting anything out of what he's receiving.

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Is the "it's tiresome" just SO MUCH of a thin skinned response? Did he break down in tears?

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He hasn't broken down in tears during the interview, this time, but there's no telling about the next one if he keeps getting these "tiresome" lines of feedback. Otherwise, yes: for someone in the public light, as a figurehead or major figure of a company that produces a product that is consumed, even if superficially, such a response, in context, is a bit thin-skinned, especially when it doesn't go into any details. I'm not going to say he should be getting bricks ready for a bridge, but his status and media presence does, in fact, push some importance to how he presents himself and what he says. All of which will be interpreted on a case-by-case basis, with different, often opposing narratives taking the forefront of social media.
Because of that, if there's something bothering him, and he wants to voice it, it's probably for the best if he's a little more clear about what the actual boundaries are. Otherwise, it's best to leave it to the professionals that are supposedly still on the payroll.

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What's wrong with a smiley?

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Nothing, but then there's nothing specifically wrong with being a teenager with a mosquito bite sharpness of wit either.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

When considering the examples given, yes. It's like lightly tapping someone on the arm and asking if it hurt. If they say yes, there's something wrong. It should barely even register.

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"when considering the examples given".. I guess you're just going to hang on to that one. He did not give examples. The video, edited by the video maker, used that.
In the context of what he said alone however, it doesn't seem that egregious.

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

Well, according to the rationale they posted most recently, particularly in response to the good ol' boy Ren, yes, YoshiP's statement, combined with the types of complaints we did get to see, for whatever reason, do not really sit right together.
But, prior to that post, they had made other posts explaining other potential scenarios, including those where we just don't have the full picture. I'm pretty sure that, therefore, it's not a single assumption, it's just the one that is being discussed and the one that you happened to step in and cling to.

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Responded to. Which I addressed.

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

Well, since several forum users like to discuss the validity of feedback based upon whether or not it meets the needs and standards of a caricatured polite society, perhaps he should have said
"Look, humans: I, YoshiP, understand that there is frustration, however I am getting old, and these rings on my finger are getting heavier as my muscles atrophy in age, so I just don't have the patience to sift through your dagger packages or plane tickets to Brazil. If you could, please provide your feedback in a way that a man with as many rings under his bark as I do can understand. For example, instead of saying 'FFXIV is so dumb that my own mother beat me up for being a degen' please tell me what makes it so dumb, and perhaps why your mother beat you up for it."
He's made longer statements in the past, and even less coherent ones than that made up rambling I just wrote, so I don't believe it would be beyond him to do that. Particularly if he actually wants it to stop and believes that he's not getting anything out of what he's receiving.

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So you don't have an example at all, just sarcasm. Gotcha. You just like to keep calling people thin skinned.

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

He hasn't broken down in tears during the interview, this time, but there's no telling about the next one if he keeps getting these "tiresome" lines of feedback. Otherwise, yes: for someone in the public light, as a figurehead or major figure of a company that produces a product that is consumed, even if superficially, such a response, in context, is a bit thin-skinned, especially when it doesn't go into any details. I'm not going to say he should be getting bricks ready for a bridge, but his status and media presence does, in fact, push some importance to how he presents himself and what he says. All of which will be interpreted on a case-by-case basis, with different, often opposing narratives taking the forefront of social media.
Because of that, if there's something bothering him, and he wants to voice it, it's probably for the best if he's a little more clear about what the actual boundaries are. Otherwise, it's best to leave it to the professionals that are supposedly still on the payroll.

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Alright. That just sounds like you never want to hear negativity out of him because of his job unless he has a full form letter of WHY he's complaining. So.. never say anything unless you have a full detailed statement.. which you just made fun him for doing in your first sarcastic paragraph.

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

Nothing, but then there's nothing specifically wrong with being a teenager with a mosquito bite sharpness of wit either.

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OK. =]

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

So you don't have an example at all, just sarcasm. Gotcha. You just like to keep calling people thin skinned.

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No, I gave you an example. I suggest you read the chapter again, and maybe ask your relatives for help if you have trouble understanding the homework, but we can also go over it again if they're not available to help you.

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That just sounds like you never want to hear negativity out of him because of his job unless he has a full form letter of WHY he's complaining.

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That's not what I actually want out of him, but, you know, for all the people who complain that feedback have to be presented in a specific manner with a specific tone with specific font and specific prose, fair is fair, I guess.

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which you just made fun him for doing of in your first sarcastic paragraph.

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Yes, I'm being satirical, because it's fun for me to be so obviously satirical. The fact that you get so offended by it that you become so huffy about how I write my response would also be fun, if you weren't just being offended for the sake of being offended, but since that's really all you have to offer I suggest you go your separate way from this conversation before the contents become too much for you to bear.

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

That's not what I actually want out of him,

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So the entire thing is sarcasm. Of what use was that as a reply?

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

No, I gave you an example. I suggest you read the chapter again, and maybe ask your relatives for help if you have trouble understanding the homework,

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

The fact that you get so offended by it that you become so huffy about how I write my response would also be fun, if you weren't just being offended for the sake of being offended, but since that's really all you have to offer I suggest you go your separate way from this conversation before the contents become too much for you to bear.

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I'm not going to suggest I haven't been insulting on my own merits in this exchange, but if all you're going to do now is insult me with no actual content or contribution to the discussion at hand, then why bother? Is this about the internet points? Where do they matter?

I really would like to hear from someone about why some guy being asked about his job and his response about random people just spouting negativity being "it's tiresome" is so thin skinned or what he should do otherwise. It's something I encounter on a lot of forums. People responding to ANYONE who shows the slightest exasperation at intentionally caustic responses is "thin skinned" or should grow a thicker skin. Because of course the reaction to all people being absolute poop on the net should be the receiving person just ignoring and putting up with it right? Never react. Never acknowledge that jerks being jerks who are intentionally spewing abrasive trash have bothered you.

Right.

Interesting. "Tiresome" is also an apt descriptor for the game design in both FFXIV and FFXVI (which, different though they are, share many of the same strengths and weaknesses).

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

Sugarcoating feedback by stroking the devs' ego before giving criticism is not something that should be considered anywhere near necessary for feedback to be valid or constructive. This is a ridiculous mindset. Including positivity is not what makes or breaks feedback when it comes to being constructive.

Constructive =/= positive.

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No, it is not, then you are just not reading, you need to mention what is good and what works or can work, whether you likeit or not, and then mention the things that should be something about, else you would give them no ground to stand and work on and make it even more difficult to do something about things, maybe it is not your stage to be able to grasp that part, but at least learn and listen what other comes with and learn from it or even better ask in to it.

Quoting 100 thousand people over and over again, just show you have problems with making a comment of you own.

I'd rather see Yoshi-P stick to his original opinion rather than indulge the frustrating attempts to deflect any and all criticism towards a product as coming from 'haters'.

Namely this stance:

https://i.imgur.com/HST15jo.png

A lot of people do praise the elements of the game that they like alongside leaving criticism - however it often just devolves into inane attempts to police what they should and should not enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I'd rather see Yoshi-P stick to his original opinion rather than indulge the frustrating attempts to deflect any and all criticism towards a product as coming from 'haters'.

Namely this stance:

https://i.imgur.com/HST15jo.png

A lot of people do praise the elements of the game that they like alongside leaving criticism - however it often just devolves into inane attempts to police what they should and should not enjoy.

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I think the issue is we’ve lost that time to be reasonable on this forum a long time ago. Now it’s fighting for fighting sake, people defending the game they love are now simps/white knights/toxic positivity and negative posters are trolls or haters. I know I’m guilty of calling trolls out but at least the one I refer to is genuinely a troll (I know at times they can make a genuine post of critique but it’s like the boy who cried wolf… you can’t keep trol posting and the moment you mean a genuine one… that I should take that as genuine) then we have clearly passionate players who are willing to dump the veil of enjoyment like awesome and stormy/alexiaD. Regardless of my view of their sometimes one note negativity they make points just like you yourself do.

I wish we could actually have healthier debate but it’s long gone at this point and this forum is now basically a dumping ground, where the Reddit and discord are actually more reasonable somehow. Tomorrow is a big day… let‘a see where the game is heading.

In regards to yoshi thin skin, I think the interview is curated in a way to not show the worst of it.. plus wasn’t it mainly people having critique before the game was out so preconceived opinions etc. I remember when my mates hated on 14 years ago cause it was an mmo… then during Covid they put it out for free on PS4 and I got my 3 mates to try it and 2 are now main stay players because they misjudged it. I think a lot of that could apply to players with 16. He was forward and honest about systems, design philosophy etc of the game and what direction they’re going in so end of the day if people want to bitch but it’s not like they lied about what the game was… plenty of sources to see that.

Oh sure, if the XIV dev team completely swapped their pre-2.0 stance and stopped listening to the community it's because of the mean haters, and not because they get so much money with this game they became complacent.
They stopped caring because they can afford it now, here's what changed.

The second they start losing money, the community managers and the inspirational PowerPoints about how deeply they care about the community will come back.

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https://i.imgur.com/HST15jo.png

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https://i.imgur.com/SgBG0Ij.png

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...

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There's no contradiction here. This was obviously PR from the start, this is what Yoshi-P does and he's very effective at it.
It doesn't mean that the devs shouldn't put money where their mouths are.

It's almost like some of us pay attention to what the development team actually says, compile interviews to use as sources to reinforce our talking points when leaving feedback and then raise an eyebrow when they say something contradictory.

Since the word has been getting tossed around here so much lately:

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Urban Dictionary

Simping (v.)

- to simp

- When you infatuate over women, allowing them to take over your mind and cause you to do things for them that you wouldn't normally do.

- Tricking, groveling, or basically just letting females walk all over you for no apparent reason other than your own bitch-made-ness.

- simping means that that the person is actively being a simp.

Simp (n.)
A simp is someone who will stop at nothing to get someone else to be with them.

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Dictionary.com (slang dictionary)

simp (n.)

Simp is a slang insult for men who are seen as too attentive and submissive to women, especially out of a failed hope of winning some entitled sexual attention or activity from them.

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Cambridge University Press

simp (n.)

- a person who is silly or not intelligent. Simp is short for simpleton

- someone who tries too hard to do what another person wants, especially in a romantic relationship

- someone who likes and admires someone, especially a famous person, very much

simp (v.)

- to try too hard to do what someone wants, especially in a romantic relationship

- to like and admire someone very much

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Cyber Definitions

SIMPING (v.)

- Acting Like a SIMP

SIMPING is a derogatory term used to describe the actions of SIMPs

SIMP (n.)

- a derogatory term for a male who is overly attentive to females, especially if his actions are insincere, motivated by an expectation of favorable attention, and are not reciprocated

According to some sources, it is actually a four-letter abbreviation, which stands for Sucker Idolizing Mediocre P[readacted but shouldn't be hard to guess from the above definition]

- SIMP has long been used used as a contraction of the word "Simpleton,

- S.I.M.P. (Squirrels in My Pants)" is the title of a song featured in a 2018 episode of the animated musical comedy television series Phineas and Ferb, produced by Disney Television Animation.

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Slang.net

simping

Obsessing over a person that does not return the same affection

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Wikipedia

Simp (n.)

-Simp is an internet slang term describing someone who shows excessive sympathy and attention toward another person, typically someone who does not reciprocate the same feelings, in pursuit of affection or a sexual relationship

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If you were confused about what was going on around here before, this probably didn't help.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It's almost like some of us pay attention to what the development team actually says, compile interviews to use as sources to reinforce our talking points when leaving feedback and then raise an eyebrow when they say something contradictory.

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But are the contradictions due to outright lies, changes in planning after the original statement was made, or misinterpretation/mistranslation of the original comments into different language?

It's really easy to assume nefarious motives over a comment when it's just a matter of "a decision was made later to revise the original plan" or "will not" was somehow translated as "will".

After years of dealing with WoW developer shenanigans, it was nice coming here to see the devs usually meant what they said and would apologize if things turned out differently. Now the excessive apologizing can be grating on those of us used to western customs but when you put them into the context of JP culture, it's normal. If you've ever watched the NoClip documentary series about FFXIV, Koji Fox says at one point that localization had to warn the developers that the excessive apologies would be seen as insincere by the western players.

That's something most of us will lack accurate context on: how JP culture is influencing both game design and how information being shared. There's also the risk of things being mistranslated, especially when being done live so no one can review the translation to make certain it is correct before release.

The devs are human beings, too. They're going to make mistakes. Just because it's their job doesn't mean they're going to be perfect at it anymore than everyone in the player base is going to be perfect at their own jobs.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Never respond to an interview or to people around him with his real feelings?

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No one cares about his real feelings. Just as he doesn't care about ours.

It is alarming how Yoshi P managed to cultivate a parasocial relationship like this, and countless others, within the FF14 community.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I'd rather see Yoshi-P stick to his original opinion rather than indulge the frustrating attempts to deflect any and all criticism towards a product as coming from 'haters'.

Namely this stance:
(snip image)

A lot of people do praise the elements of the game that they like alongside leaving criticism - however it often just devolves into inane attempts to police what they should and should not enjoy.

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How can we be certain he's not still listening? We get exposed to only a tiny portion of the overall feedback that SE collects from across the world.

I very rarely see anyone trying to tell others what they should or shouldn't enjoy. I do see people encouraging others to try out new games if they're not enjoying this one.

The development team is not going to be able to please everyone who picks up the game. Some will end up disappointed. It's futile to think that the game will be changed to please unhappy players when there are plenty of other players still paying for the game because they are pleased by what it already is.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

How can we be certain he's not still listening? We get exposed to only a tiny portion of the overall feedback that SE collects from across the world.

I very rarely see anyone trying to tell others what they should or shouldn't enjoy. I do see people encouraging others to try out new games if they're not enjoying this one.

The development team is not going to be able to please everyone who picks up the game. Some will end up disappointed. It's futile to think that the game will be changed to please unhappy players when there are plenty of other players still paying for the game because they are pleased by what it already is.

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Maybe he just needs another company to do something similar with one of their flagships. Imagine if Chevrolet decided that the 2024 Corvette would be redesigned as an economically priced, front-wheel drive, EV Minivan because they see a larger market for soccer moms wanting to feel good about being green is larger than the market of middle aged men with large amounts of disposable income going thru a mid-life crisis and choosing to blow it on a sports car... :P lol