Pandaemonium raids are too stressful

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

Implying the Mother Crystal can't kick your ass when the group sucks.

---

hmm I certainly didn't mean to imply that, because I know that it can. But it also isn't insurmountable or something that isn't likely to be overcame after 2-3 wipes max.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yokotsune

Sorry I might be a little out of the loop but people create guides to Normal mode content that is all clearly telegraphed for you by the devs?

---

This statement wreaks of ivory towerness. People need guides (and guides exist) to the most simple, mundane things imaginable. There are guides on how to get chocobo riding, how to unlock dying your gear, etc. Of course there are guides to normal mode content. People do still wipe in there sometimes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EderTheBro

I'm not having fun anymore in this game. After I died in the tenth Circle 6 times I just closed out of the game. I really want to see what happened to Themis but I'm now too scared to go into Duty Finder :/

The raids are insane in this game and have so many mechanics thrown at you over and over again. It's so overwhelming and honestly feels unreasonably difficult for new players. They seem to be tuned for players who have played this game for years. Hopefully they make the next raids a bit less stressful. :(

---

You have GOT to be kidding me. Pandæmonium is the easiest normal raid tier we've ever had. I about fell asleep learning the new fights and I am a slightly above average player at best (I almost never do even EX content). We need harder casual content, not easier. It really sucks that in this game there's no middle ground between normal where you clear it after 1-2 attempts and savage/EX where you clear it after anywhere from 20-100 attempts.

/looks at OP’s character
https://media.tenor.com/IDHVWqB3hncA...i-know-you.gif

Git gud. All the content in 6.4 have been pretty easy but engaging - No wipes here. We did need a Healer LB3 once in P11 though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

Implying the Mother Crystal can't kick your ass when the group sucks.

---

Shiva can kick your ass if the group sucks enough. Pugs aren't a great indication of fight difficulty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blindheart

Thats the question i am asking. this is not a new people raid, this is a raid for people who have played through the entire game and hopefully all the previous 4 raid series and other side content.

Yes there is still new never before seen stuff in these fights but it also has a mix of old stuff and old stuff done in new ways and new ways to telegraph old mechanics. But anyone who has played all things up to this point should have all the tools needed to figure it out and plenty of leniency for failure on normal version of the fight.

---

I loved these raids and didn't find it difficult, but this line of thought did make me consider something. What will happen if SE does put in a new starting point (either with 7.0 or later) and new players won't ever have seen those mechanics? I could see that being one reason that might give them pause with doing that.

this is a joke right?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Selsix

You have GOT to be kidding me. Pandæmonium is the easiest normal raid tier we've ever had. I about fell asleep learning the new fights and I am a slightly above average player at best (I almost never do even EX content). We need harder casual content, not easier. It really sucks that in this game there's no middle ground between normal where you clear it after 1-2 attempts and savage/EX where you clear it after anywhere from 20-100 attempts.

---

Are….are you serious? Extremes are literally that middle ground you’re cryin for. From easiest to hardest it’s dungeons, trials, normal raids, unreal trials, extreme trials, savage raids, ultimates. Unreal and extreme could be swapped out in theory simply because their mechanics disrespect the 2 min burst window and ilvl sync you down so you can never get more efficient with better gear. An extreme adds a bit more difficulty to the base fight and forces ppl to coordinate together while being able to have a rudimentary understanding of their job and role. A savage requires the team to usually use their mit in timely locations and try to optimize their dps even more than in an extreme. An ultimate demands the team to actually coordinate, optimize their rotation, and everyone has to contribute to mitigations including the dps. Yes feint and addle do matter. So no. That difficulty does exist. It’s just that people refuse to accept that it does.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

And new players won't ever have seen those mechanics? I could see that being one reason that might give them pause with doing that.

---

Plenty of opportunities. There are MSQ fights they could show off the mechanics, even if a bot does resolve it for you, it can be used to display certain effects.

And even then, some mechanics wont harm if they end up being new, as long as players can be made aware of it. Even in leviathan extreme, a healer might fail to notice the icon and become silenced. But thats exactly the point where they will learn their mistake (they will have to look at their status effects and will notice a certain icon there). Only mechanics that are instantly causing deaths without slow build up are problematic.

If realy needed, you can use 2 bosses for teaching (the aurum vale food mechanic is an example of using the same thing twice in a dungeon, where the first boss fight allowed stuns on it, and wasnt as aggressive at using these). While aurum is boring at it being effectively the same boss twice, its feature does realy demand the player to learn it, or they will struggle (and die) again.

I realy dont think its that quickly going to be an issue. And for raids, as long as the previous patch already showed the mechanic, its fine. Even if players later on follow the msq and raids at a diffirent pace, and face the raid before the dungeon that was supposed to teach them, its still not going to be an issue (players can chat, and normal raids can be done with 7 people anyway). There are always ways to teach new players.

I thought they were fine after doing them with some friends. But then I watched another friend queue into it with 7 randoms (he streamed the fight for fun) and they wiped like 6 times on p10. The part where the boss slaps the whole team like 7 times wiped them twice. Their team was calling it a difficult healcheck. I healed it earlier and felt like at worst all you had to do was suck it up and use a GCD or two if you weren't feeling comfy. Like... what the hell man, lmao. This is why we keep getting stuff that doesn't hurt at all I guess.

Anyway I doubt OP is serious, but anyone reading his post and agreeing should just give it a week. Only a few days after it dropped and I noticed people weren't eating nearly as much shit so it was more boring to heal than before. Back to maplestory, I guess.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ranaku

Scream all you want, no devs can hear you.

---

good point. Are there any Devs? I have never seen one in many years.Cost cutting I assume.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zsavooz

good point. Are there any Devs? I have never seen one in many years.Cost cutting I assume.

---

lol you will only see them post to announce im a new community rep and then vanish. There used to be a time you'd see them removing posts and editing posts way before they got out of hand. Hey sometimes they'd even reply to an idea thread lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ranaku

Scream all you want, no devs can hear you.

---

I can't be the only one that read this to the tune of "Scream" from P8, I think...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UkcsAlias

Plenty of opportunities. There are MSQ fights they could show off the mechanics, even if a bot does resolve it for you, it can be used to display certain effects.

And even then, some mechanics wont harm if they end up being new, as long as players can be made aware of it. Even in leviathan extreme, a healer might fail to notice the icon and become silenced. But thats exactly the point where they will learn their mistake (they will have to look at their status effects and will notice a certain icon there). Only mechanics that are instantly causing deaths without slow build up are problematic.

If realy needed, you can use 2 bosses for teaching (the aurum vale food mechanic is an example of using the same thing twice in a dungeon, where the first boss fight allowed stuns on it, and wasnt as aggressive at using these). While aurum is boring at it being effectively the same boss twice, its feature does realy demand the player to learn it, or they will struggle (and die) again.

I realy dont think its that quickly going to be an issue. And for raids, as long as the previous patch already showed the mechanic, its fine. Even if players later on follow the msq and raids at a diffirent pace, and face the raid before the dungeon that was supposed to teach them, its still not going to be an issue (players can chat, and normal raids can be done with 7 people anyway). There are always ways to teach new players.

---

There are, but consider they did put a new starting point in 7.0 and then in the first dungeon a someone gets a TB or a stack marker. They won't know the effect and someone could be like "You idiot, that's a TB/stack, don't you know what that is". I could just see this causing a lot of toxicity because I've seen the "You've seen this stuff before" idea constantly in this thread and in this kind of case they legitimately wouldn't have. People already get mad at people who use skip potions.

I suppose they could fix that with a new icon to show they were completely new at an advanced level. I don't feel they will put a new starting point in 7.0 after they went to all the trouble to go back and make the MSQ consistent on those visual triggers. It was more a line of thought I had about "what if" we didn't have the argument that people had seen these mechs before and how would that be treated.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by grinkdaboy

p9-11 seemed pretty well choreographed, it's 12 that turns into a real clusterfuck. and if you feel overwhelmed or unsure, it never hurts to ask any questions! most people will be glad to answer them than deride you for being a total n00blet. questions and practice (being able to press buttons without thinking so your attention is fully on what's going around you) will take you far

---

I love P12
Finally, a normal raid that's got hands

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Knot_D

Golbez EX however is kinda hard to do with pugs...

---

hmmmm I should try to DF it sometimes

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

Implying the Mother Crystal can't kick your ass when the group sucks.

---

everything can kick your ass if you suck

OP.. I hate to say this, but.. I just ran those

if I can do them, and enjoy them... all I can say is.. "git gud"

they werent that hard if you went in there to actually learn and werent afk....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Masekase_Hurricane

Hate comments like this because 9/10 times SE listens and kills the difficulty. It's supposed to be challenging it's endgame.

---

This^
I was blown away by these last four circles, amazing story, and great mechanics. Challenging for normal, but definitely possible. I quite loved it. We wiped about 7 times on our first attempt of P10. This content made mandatory 100 hours of bosses that were essentially target dummies worth it

I somehow found them a lot easier than several other past raids. Mechanics were pretty readable to me and there was plenty of time to move to get in position. P 9 was like a revision of past mechanics with some new visuals and p10 was pretty much stay out of stupid. Only time I died was P11 finding out if it was same or opposite color. 12 had a similar decision to make, do I go with the thing or move opposite way. Once you've seen it once, there are no surprises if you don't have tunnel vision and are familiar with FFXIV raids and mechanics.

Its interesting, after finally get a chance to do them this weekend, I actually found them easier than than the previous 4 but my SO found them harder.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kes13a

OP.. I hate to say this, but.. I just ran those

if I can do them, and enjoy them... all I can say is.. "git gud"

they werent that hard if you went in there to actually learn and werent afk....

---

This is why some folks just don't say anything at all and trudge through the content once if they have to, then never again.

This is a game. It's meant to be fun. If someone is struggling through mechanic panic, that's not fun.

One of the reasons I like this game vs others I've played since 1997 is for the most part, this community isn't a "git gud" crowd, but you do unfortunately still run into one here and there that can make something that I find challenging not just a challenge, but a really unpleasant experience. Telling someone to git gud is harsh enough, but saying they're afki'ing as an alternative to learning the mechanics is just rude.

"Someone like you", who has clearly played for a good while, with all jobs fully maxed can surely offer something more constructive than that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kyssa

This is why some folks just don't say anything at all and trudge through the content once if they have to, then never again.

This is a game. It's meant to be fun. If someone is struggling through mechanic panic, that's not fun.

One of the reasons I like this game vs others I've played since 1997 is for the most part, this community isn't a "git gud" crowd, but you do unfortunately still run into one here and there that can make something that I find challenging not just a challenge, but a really unpleasant experience. Telling someone to git gud is harsh enough, but saying they're afki'ing as an alternative to learning the mechanics is just rude.

"Someone like you", who has clearly played for a good while, with all jobs fully maxed can surely offer something more constructive than that.

---

actually, in this case, I cannot. I have a difficult time with mechanics, the Eden raid with the birds still boggles my brain and thats one of the few I actively try and avoid because, I will go down.. a lot.

the normal raids in this series even I can get through with my limited abilities at grasping the mechanics and slow rng feet. to wail like the OP that they are "too hard" seems a bit farfetched. I went in expecting more difficult since its not main stream MSQ, and it was, but after playing through 90 levels, there is a base expectation that unless you have been sleeping, or boosted, you should be able to do them (savages etc are a different story of course)

do they need to be easier? nope, I had fun even at the normal difficulty and did feel a little challenged and I am no pro. at 90.. there is no "new player", so the OP suggesting they might be too much for a "new player" is misleading, since a new player should not have access to them in the first place. usually yes, I would offer something more constructive, but in case of the OP, I suspect a troll, plain and simple.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kes13a

actually, in this case, I cannot. I have a difficult time with mechanics, the Eden raid with the birds still boggles my brain and thats one of the few I actively try and avoid because, I will go down.. a lot.

---

I had to cut down the quote to fit the character limit for my response. No disrespect intended! :)

OP definitely didn't create this thread with honest intentions from a personal experience POV, I'm sure. However, just browsing the pages, there are people who have echoed his admittedly false personal perspective on the subject, and I've seen many people post before in other threads about finding an encounter tuned to normal play just a little too much for them to feel confident in defeating without anxiety of failure for one reason or another- be it missing mechanics cues and the subsequent fear of ridicule or something else.

I am a self proclaimed Mechanic Panic Maven. Well, my son pointed it out first. :o

The mechanics in this game were so totally out of line of what I'd encountered for years in other games. The swiftness in which you need to react, memorizing safe spots- which effects means run from, run to, stack, don't stack, bad towers, good tower, etc, it's a lot. For me, I'm fortunate that my son takes pity on my poor soul and he helps me through stuff via talking on discord and pointing out where to go, what means what- but others don't necessarily have that kind of support.

Yes, you can be level 90 and still be a new player. Getting through the MSQ to level isn't the difficult part- cause that is one and done, it's being max level and needing to repeat stuff regularly for tokens/tomestones/etc that's the challenging part.. or having to go back and do stuff you skipped because it wasn't MSQ in order to unlock stuff like Tataru's Grand Endeavor items.. stuff you thought were inconsequential to the "end-game experience", only to find out that yep.. those random raids are a must. That some of those random raids suck and for the mechanically deficient, like myself, are just plain daunting.

All I'm saying is, that at the end of the day, this is a game and each individual that plays it may have a different take on things within it, and that's okay. Just because it isn't your take doesn't invalidate their take and I wish people would keep that in mind when discussions like the one in this thread are had.

1 one shot first 3 bosses 2 shot last one. *drops mic and walks out*

As someone who cleared Abyssos Savage:

P9 wasn't too bad but lag will 100% kill you, P10 is 90% your party members killing you because of tethers, P11 is super easy on mobile classes, difficult on turret classes.

P12 I'll admit is pretty spicy though. The boss hits like a truck, party members will absolutely kill you with tethers, particle effects often obscure key mechanics that can kill several people if not respected. Definitely harder than P1S.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElysiumDragon

As someone who cleared Abyssos Savage:

P9 wasn't too bad but lag will 100% kill you, P10 is 90% your party members killing you because of tethers, P11 is super easy on mobile classes, difficult on turret classes.

P12 I'll admit is pretty spicy though. The boss hits like a truck, party members will absolutely kill you with tethers, particle effects often obscure key mechanics that can kill several people if not respected. Definitely harder than P1S.

---

Definitely agree on P10. I feel like I have to be Neo dodging bullets trying to get away from some of the peeps in DF with the tethers who want to come hug you.

I've been MTing P12 and positioning in that one has also been super important. Not just when most of the arena decides to go bye bye, but something as simple as the line aoe with knockback and giving everyone enough room to avoid it. And lining up the half arena attacks so the party can jump back and forth on those as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kes13a

OP.. I hate to say this, but.. I just ran those

if I can do them, and enjoy them... all I can say is.. "git gud"

they werent that hard if you went in there to actually learn and werent afk....

---

Difficulty is relative. I'm glad you found it easy but it wasn't for me and a lot of other people. :/

https://videogamesuncovered.com/wp-c...FG-Git-Gud.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EderTheBro

Difficulty is relative. I'm glad you found it easy but it wasn't for me and a lot of other people. :/

---

thats just it, it wasnt "easy" but you tanked the first 9 and then found 10 hard, I find that laughable

Git gud

We wiped a few times and cleaned day 1, is not hard at all. Mother Venat is disappointed and she said you don't deserve to see her son ending.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EderTheBro

I'm not having fun anymore in this game. After I died in the tenth Circle 6 times I just closed out of the game. I really want to see what happened to Themis but I'm now too scared to go into Duty Finder :/

The raids are insane in this game and have so many mechanics thrown at you over and over again. It's so overwhelming and honestly feels unreasonably difficult for new players. They seem to be tuned for players who have played this game for years. Hopefully they make the next raids a bit less stressful. :(

---

Maybe already asked but...
How can a 'new player' be in Pandaemonium? Even with story skip the player must go through whole EW first. If someone plays the game from ARR to EW to Pandaemonium, I wouldn't call it 'a newbie'.

I like it that the new raids are not too easy. The actual endgame content shouldn't be too easy imo. : )
I died a lot in P12, but who cares!? Learning by doing. It's okay to fail. Don't worry so much! :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Heavenchild

Maybe already asked but...
How can a 'new player' be in Pandaemonium? Even with story skip the player must go through whole EW first. If someone plays the game from ARR to EW to Pandaemonium, I wouldn't call it 'a newbie'.

I like it that the new raids are not too easy. The actual endgame content shouldn't be too easy imo. : )
I died a lot in P12, but who cares!? Learning by doing. It's okay to fail. Don't worry so much! :)

---

OP is an alt who has way too many to troll the forum.