Content geared towards FCs

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

These points make no sense. We already have content thats theoretically "locked" behind having an FC such as company submersibles. Again I feel like sometimes we're just arbitrarly throwing around things being "locked" behind features in this game as if somehow all players are FORCED to do them. None of the optional content in this game is ever forced on the player, its why its called "optional" as in, not required to progress through the game.

So them making an activity thats FC related should have no bearing over you making progress with playing the game. Itll be just an optional thing to do if you happen to own or be a part of an FC.

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And company submersibles are a joke currently, it's just free gil income for anyone who owns an FC. Pretty much no one else sees anything from it inside of the FC.
What you're proposing is more of the same, something people already do not like, and something that is already being proposed by the devs to have removed from being FC exclusive.

The issue again is not that there's nothing to do for FCs, there's dozens of things you could be organizing to do with your FC if you just organize events and special runs of content yourself. The problem is that you want SE to take content and rewards they normally would have given to the whole player base, and say that you need to be part of an active FC of at least 20+ people to get this. That's not going to happen 10 years into the life of the game and were it to happen there would be a major backlash from the community at large.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

What is being discouraged is very specifically locking this nebulous content behind FC participation. Not the creation of said content. Claiming people are against new content in this thread is dishonest.

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I understand this, but this still doesnt make any sense. Its almost as if you guys just despise your FC and rather not deal with them like at all. I dont particularly care about the FCs I join myself but Im sure many companies whom like to organize their group for doing fun activities wouldnt mind at all if there was something extra they could do together. Thats literally it. Im not advocating for something HUGE or anything that could be taken full advantage of in terms of power.

This is why Im spewing out how you guys just seem to not want content at all. "Oh we can have content! Just content that only I like"

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I understand this, but this still doesnt make any sense. Its almost as if you guys just despise your FC and rather not deal with them like at all. I dont particularly care about the FCs I join myself but Im sure many companies whom like to organize their group for doing fun activities wouldnt mind at all if there was something extra they could do together. Thats literally it. Im not advocating for something HUGE or anything that could be taken full advantage of in terms of power.

This is why Im spewing out how you guys just seem to not want content at all. "Oh we can have content! Just content that only caters to me"

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I'm glad you just essentially admit to being dishonest here.

We are the people saying we only want content catered to us? When you are here specifically asking to have content structures catered to your ideals of what an FC should be and not just be general content?

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Its almost as if you guys just despise your FC and rather not deal with them like at all.

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THat's only because you have a very narrow view of it.

I own a house, that doesn't stop me from thinking making gardening and crossbreeding "exclusive" to people with a house a bad idea. If housing is something that readily accessible than that's a different story, but alas it is not.

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This is why Im spewing out how you guys just seem to not want content at all. "Oh we can have content! Just content that only I like"

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Again, this is an ironic take.

- Free access content: anyone can do it, with or without FC. There is nothing stopping an FC from adopting it and do it together with its member.
- Exclusive content: no one allowed to do it unless they're part of an FC.

I don't know if you're realizing it or actually doing it on purpose. But you're projecting and twisting your own selfishness to make it sounds like it's other people problem.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

I'm glad you just essentially admit to being dishonest here.

We are the people saying we only want content catered to us? When you are here specifically asking to have content structures catered to your ideals of what an FC should be and not just be general content?

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You do realize that sarcastic quote is meant to you guys how you are all acting right now right? You seem to only care if they implement content as long as you somehow able to participate it in. This game already has content that I normally wouldnt be able to do if I dont want to put in the extra effort. Oh I cant do Ultimates unless I clear all savages and get into a static for it, Oh well, thats not for me but nice that there's a little something extra for the people whove put in that extra effort to do THAT CONTENT.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

THat's only because you have a very narrow view of it.

I own a house, that doesn't stop me from thinking making gardening and crossbreeding "exclusive" to people with a house a bad idea. If housing is something that readily accessible than that's a different story, but alas it is not.





Again, this is an ironic take.

- Free access content: anyone can do it, with or without FC. There is nothing stopping an FC from adopting it and do it together with its member.
- Exclusive content: no one allowed to do it unless they're part of an FC.

I don't know if you're realizing it or actually doing it on purpose. But you're projecting and twisting your own selfishness to make it sounds like it's other people problem.

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Gardening and Housing is not an example I would use for what Im debating for and its disingenous. The structure of that content is super limiting for what you can do due to its nature of it not being able to be available for every player. FCs are something anybody can easily join. There's no shortage of groups that wont take in players so having something extra that you can do with your FC for that FC isnt terrible at all. Its just there if people want to participate or not. Oh how terrible that must be :v

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

You do realize that sarcastic quote is meant to you guys how you are all acting right now right? You seem to only care if they implement content as long as you somehow able to participate it in. This game already has content that I normally wouldnt be able to do if I dont want to put in the extra effort. Oh I cant do Ultimates unless I clear all savages and get into a static for it, Oh well, thats not for me but nice that there's a little something extra for the people whove put in that extra effort to do THAT CONTENT.

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I realize you were trying to be sarcastic. That was obvious. You still meant what you said. Saying it in a snippy way doesnt change that.

Ok I just give up at this point. I guess people just dont want to have anything slightly more meaningful with their multiplayer in an MMORPG. Im starting to see where people become frustrated with this community sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

You do realize that sarcastic quote is meant to you guys how you are all acting right now right? You seem to only care if they implement content as long as you somehow able to participate it in. This game already has content that I normally wouldnt be able to do if I dont want to put in the extra effort. Oh I cant do Ultimates unless I clear all savages and get into a static for it, Oh well, thats not for me but nice that there's a little something extra for the people whove put in that extra effort to do THAT CONTENT.

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To his point...there is alot of gated content in one way or another that requires far more effort to participate in. Joining an FC is not difficult to do also giving groups content to have fun doing that is aimed at guilds banding together (if implemented consciously) could really breathe life into the community and really end up being fun but we cant fathom that because were worried about a "gate"?? Come on....I've defended this game for over 10 years and this is literally one of the reasons why our community gets clowned (not that it matters but ijs).....a little soft to be brutally honest.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Ok I just give up at this point. I guess people just dont want to have anything slightly more meaningful with their multiplayer in an MMORPG. Im starting to see where people become frustrated with this community sometimes.

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Ok, don't let the door hit you on the way out when you leave for WoW or GW2.
you're effectively coming in here halfway through the life of the game and asking for complete changes and a complete shift in direction for the game to favor what you want. It'd be like if I went to the WoW forums and asked for them to stop using DBM. It ain't happenning. The community has decided what it wants and if you don't want what the community wants, there are other games that will give you it.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Ok, don't let the door hit you on the way out when you leave for WoW or GW2.

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Yeah no. Im one of the biggest shills for this game and me having a hissy fit with jaded people in the forums isnt going to want me to leave playing this game that I love.

The reason this definitely can't happen is simple.

FCs are not cross-world. They should be but until they are, there are a lot of "cross-world" players who do not restrict themselves to a single world.

Statics are cross-world. There are cross-world linkshell communities. There are cross-world discord communities. All of these are like cross-world free companies and cross-world raiding, hunting, roleplaying, social events, BA/DRS events and other gaming is a massive part of the game. Content like this being restricted to an FC would impact all of the people in these cross-world (and now cross-data center) communities because it would restrict them all to their homeworlds. After 10 years of building a cross-world game, I doubt Yoshi-P is going to go back.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

The reason this definitely can't happen is simple.

FCs are not cross-world. They should be but until they are, there are a lot of "cross-world" players who do not restrict themselves to a single world.

Statics are cross-world. There are cross-world linkshell communities. There are cross-world discord communities. All of these are like cross-world free companies and cross-world raiding, hunting, roleplaying, social events, BA/DRS events and other gaming is a massive part of the game. Content like this being restricted to an FC would impact all of the people in these cross-world (and now cross-data center) communities because it would restrict them all to their homeworlds. After 10 years of building a cross-world game, I doubt Yoshi-P is going to go back.

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Theres nothing stopping me from creating an FC of my own if I somehow found interest in doing FC content. Its not very hard to join one either if one pays attention for like 5 seconds in shout chat with people always trying to recruit members.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Theres nothing stopping me from creating an FC of my own if I somehow found interest in doing FC content. Its not very hard to join one either if one pays attention for like 5 seconds in shout chat with people always trying to recruit members.

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If you make an FC then you have to recruit 10-20 players who have the same schedule as you to do the content. You have to make sure they're active in the same hours and play regularly, as well as they're good at the game in order to complete this new content.
And they have to all be from the same server as you. That content would be DoA on Materia and Dynamis where there aren't enough players for PvP queues and multiple roulettes to pop in a reasonable amount of time.

Now what are you going to do about players stranded on underpopulated servers or servers where other people don't want to do that? You're going to charge them 18 dollars every time they need to change server, and give up their personal house, in order to attempt the content?
It circles back to what I said at the start, this type of content is on its way out. WoW even made changes because their reliance on guilds caused issues if you were alliance on a horde server and just had no access to endgame, and the other way around.
Remember when PvP was based on your GC and the Maelstrom just dominated every time? That was changed to force a random team specifically because of the problem you want to add back into the game.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

If you make an FC then you have to recruit 10-20 players who have the same schedule as you to do the content. You have to make sure they're active in the same hours and play regularly, as well as they're good at the game in order to complete this new content.
And they have to all be from the same server as you. That content would be DoA on Materia and Dynamis where there aren't enough players for PvP queues and multiple roulettes to pop in a reasonable amount of time.

Now what are you going to do about players stranded on underpopulated servers or servers where other people don't want to do that? You're going to charge them 18 dollars every time they need to change server, and give up their personal house, in order to attempt the content?
It circles back to what I said at the start, this type of content is on its way out. WoW even made changes because their reliance on guilds caused issues if you were alliance on a horde server and just had no access to endgame, and the other way around.
Remember when PvP was based on your GC and the Maelstrom just dominated every time? That was changed to force a random team specifically because of the problem you want to add back into the game.

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so basically screw the rest whom already are in an FC. People keep ignoring the fact that I'm not even saying that whatever content they makes needs to be huge to warrant schedules, but things that you can do for that FC.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

so basically screw the rest whom already are in an FC. People keep ignoring the fact that I'm not even saying that whatever content they makes needs to be huge to warrant schedules, but things that you can do for that FC.

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Screwing them? You're making it sound like people in an FC are being punished, or its members are being punished for being in one. It already has its own perks, the problem here is you don't think it enough and want even more exclusive content created for it.

If seemly not having more is considered punishment, guess what. I feel like I'm being punished every day in real life.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

so basically screw the rest whom already are in an FC. People keep ignoring the fact that I'm not even saying that whatever content they makes needs to be huge to warrant schedules, but things that you can do for that FC.

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There's no punishment currently for having an FC. If you want events, run events. If no one comes to your events then that's on the organizer. The problem is not that there's nothing to do for FCs, the problem is people don't organize anything or they organize events that aren't good.
I've seen plenty of FCs run MINE raid nights, make statics, have learning party nights, farm nights, decide to pick a night to sit around and chat as they all do FATEs. It's not even just the nightclub events, there is a world of content to be done that is completely wide open to FCs to organize and do.

Forcing people to be in an FC or they just can't do content is not the way to go about it at all, no one wants that. It was also done years back with Diadem as others have pointed out and it was changed because it was universally hated by the players. This is one of those situations where we can confidently say that yes, it was tried to force more FC interactions and participation in the past through exclusive content, and it was hated so much that players asked for it to be changed.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

Screwing them? You're making it sound like people in an FC are being punished, or its members are being punished for being in one. It already has its own perks, the problem here is you don't think it enough and want even more exclusive content created for it.

If seemly not having more is considered punishment, guess what. I feel like I'm being punished every day in real life.

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So ok, if were going to start playing like that. How about make the devs not make anymore Ultimates. We clearly already know only a select few ever do them , so why gate them behind doing savages?

Its this mentality thats the clear issue here. There's nothing taken away if they make something that is FC related and Im sure anyone who dedicates their time hanging out with their FC wouldnt be saying "no thanks". Not every content needs to cater to everyone.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

so basically screw the rest whom already are in an FC. People keep ignoring the fact that I'm not even saying that whatever content they makes needs to be huge to warrant schedules, but things that you can do for that FC.

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How are people being punished for being in an FC right now?

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

So ok, if were going to start playing like that. How about make the devs not make anymore Ultimates. We clearly already know only a select few ever do them , so why gate them behind doing savages?

Its this mentality thats the clear issue here. There's nothing taken away if they make something that is FC related and Im sure anyone who dedicates their time hanging out with their FC wouldnt be saying "no thanks".

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It's not mentality issue, it's called strawmen and reaching, which is what you're doing. Ultimate sitting behind Savage is what you call progression. Do you know why?

Because if you step into Ultimate without Savage gears, you're literally gonna get ONE SHOT by the first mechanic. And that's not an exaggeration. Even in BiS gear, missing a single mit or missing even just food and you gonna still get high rolled to the floor. Going in there with a whole tier of gear missing ? Yeah, unless you want to just zoning into the area counted as "accessing" content, than power to you, but I think most people won't.

- There are gating that naturally make sense, and usually people just see it as a sequence. Finish the story of the previous expack before the current one. Clearing the previous floor of a raid before accessing the next one.

- There are gating that's a necessity for the medium, like weekly cap. No player like it, but it's there 'cause no MMO can hope to survive without it.

- And there are gating like the one you're requesting, gating only for the shake of gating and nothing else. Thanks but no thanks.

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Not every content needs to cater to everyone.

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Hear that, the man who said not everything need to be catered to anyone, yet accusing people disagree as people selfish only care about themselves with a straight face.

An easy way to see that FCs organize events just fine is to look at the Community Finder. A lot of them talk about the events they run.

Here are a few examples I found from a casual glance.

1. "We also do weekly fc runs - mounts, wepon farms, savages new and old, events, we even have a weekly movie night on Wednesdays in discord."

2. "What You Can Expect!!! Treasure Hunt, Mount Hunting, Full FC Raid Static For Upcoming UWU, Glam Farming & Design With Our Eorzea Collection Experts, Daily Roulette Anytime, Deep Dungeons, Relic Weapons Farming, Gposing Studio & In Game Photographers, Housing Design, Heat of Battle II and Seal Sweetener II Always Active, Medium FC House In The Empyreum, Small Beach House In Mist, Discord Available, Crafting Service Available From Our Master Crafter, Just Provide The Materials!, Impromptu Concerts & Parties, Special Events Planned For The Future, Halloween Party. Thanksgiving, XMAS ECT!, Fully Improved Workshop With Master Omni Crafters"

3. "What we have to offer. Heat of Battle ll & Reduced Rates ll Monday-Saturday, crafting/gathering xp buffs on Sundays, Weekly treasure map nights, Housing in The Lavender Beds, A discord server to chat & keep connected outside of the game, Food for leveling & crafting/gathering in the fc chest at all times, Groups for farming whatever you may need! Mats, mounts, fates, relics. Eureka & Bozja. You name it! Blue mage enthusiasts"

4. "Benefits include: Free Company Buffs, Free Daily Chocobo Training/Leveling - Krakka Roots and Thavnarian Onions are also provided for free to our members. Free Company Discord, Gaming Community Discord - Free weekly/biweekly game giveaways. Free Company Mentors - A system to assist members in achieving their in-game goals. Crafting Committee - A committee that provides free gear to our members daily (up to endgame, level 90 currently). Mercenary Committee - A committee dedicated to assisting members clear content/MSQ daily. Newsletter - Our way to inform busy members weekly of current Free Company activities while they are away. Weekly Meetings - Another way to keep our members informed and many giveaways after each meeting. Fashion Crew - A team that will gear you up (For free, provided by the FC) and earn you a score of 80+ for max MGP weekly! GC turn in assistance: Our team of crafters will make you daily GC turn ins for your crafters and show you the ropes. Event Committee - A committee that explores the depths of content that FFXIV has to offer EVERY WEEK, see below. (We try to run at least two FC activities daily)

Events: Mount Farming. EX Mount Prog. Treasure Maps: We run THREE map events weekly and the Free Company provides all maps for free. Alliance Raid Night: Come join the FC as we run the latest 24 man content each week. Old School Raid Night: go back in time and clear old raid content (savage and normal). Fate Achievements. BLU leveling and Raiding. Fishing with Friends. ShB Gemstone Fates. We run Holiday events and special monthly events for our members. We always give out the best prizes and gil during these events! Jackbox Night. If there is a interest in other events not mentioned here - Bozja, Eureka, Unsync'd Raids, Sight Seeing Logs, Triple Triad, ect. We will set up events to meet the members needs/wants."

I truncated some of it, but you get the point. I got this information from the first 5 FCs I looked at. They don't seem to have any problems at all.

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Originally Posted by MonteCristo

To his point...there is alot of gated content in one way or another that requires far more effort to participate in. Joining an FC is not difficult to do also giving groups content to have fun doing that is aimed at guilds banding together (if implemented consciously) could really breathe life into the community and really end up being fun but we cant fathom that because were worried about a "gate"?? Come on....I've defended this game for over 10 years and this is literally one of the reasons why our community gets clowned (not that it matters but ijs).....a little soft to be brutally honest.

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While joining (or creating) an FC is indeed not difficult, organising content for and with that FC always will be - no matter if its content designed only for FCs or the content we already have that can be done with people from your FC.
Content that is designed to help you band together will still require you to make plans to actually play together - just as the content we have now. It also leaves a lot of room to achieve the absolute opposite by "forcing" you to exclude people from said content because its always going to support only a limited number of people. Or you'll have so many different schedudles to work with that naturally you'll have to tell the nightshift-guy "Sorry, maybe next time" if the rest of you can make 8pm. Unless of course you have content like FC-credits that does not require people to actively play together in the first place...

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

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Some FC are even creative enough to make event that's not even a content. One of my favorite was hide and seek.

- We raffle a map that we gonna use for that week.
- Every member who want to participate are given 10min to go hide anywhere on the map.
- After 10 min a couple officers will try to go and find people.
- The people who manage to remain hidden after the time limit win a prize.

They also do things like help people clear savage or EX if they had seen the whole fight and just can't find the right party. (Like not carry, but if you had put in time and effort to learn, they'll help you through the finishing line).

Another thing about FC is social vibe, the one I was in had good vibe, and because of that people hang around the FC house unless they're doing something specific. In fact, you can almost tell some have their own spot. Like you can always find this lala ontop of the stable. There a group of friends who always seem to have a pinic on the yard. And you could always caught a few people just running up and down the street in front of the house or jumping over the fence. The officers also have designate class lead that can mentor if anyone want to improve their play. And holiday? Man it's a house party on holidays.

In fact, that FC was run so well that I truly believe I would have been in it forever. Sadly, one day drama happen and it became history. But because of that I know an FC live or die not because of the content, but because of the people in it.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

They don't seem to have any problems at all.

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Try joining one of them and see how it is when, out of 150+ people, only <10 are online at primetime.

It's time for us to realize that we've been living in an echo chamber. It's not normal for the game director to tell us to play a different game. It's not normal for an MMO to struggle in social activities. It's not normal for FFXIV players to genuinely loathe having to play their own game. Most of us have very, very low standards. The player base just doesn't seem to enjoy FFXIV like they do other games. And while one can certainly opt to play old content, or make do with what we have, players just simply aren't in the mood for that. That's why they take breaks for months at a time. It's time for Square Enix to fix that by providing more incentives for group content instead of making everything single-player like the shareholders tell them.

Or you can play other games, your choice. I'm sticking with FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Try joining one of them and see how it is when, out of 150+ people, only <10 are online at primetime.

And while one can certainly opt to play old content, or make do with what we have, players just simply aren't in the mood for that. That's why they take breaks for months at a time.

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All of this is a symptom of the truth, which is that if you ever used Steam, you would notice that all of the people on a friends list usually play a game or DLC that just came out for a few days, then they finish it and stop playing. When an MMO releases a new patch, they are usually playing it for a few days, then they play something else. This is so easy to see on Steam that once you've seen it, you understand exactly why SE makes patch content that can be finished within a few days. Because most gamers will only consume it for a few days and move onto the next game.

We might as well also ask the question why a lot of content only lasts 20 minutes. That's really simple as well. People come home and have 2 hours to play in the evening. They don't want to be asked to be in a raid for 8 hours as if they don't have other things in their life. That's unfortunate for people that actually don't have other things in their life, but as far as I can tell most people do.

Playing just one game like this all of the time is not something most people do but if we really want to, this is what all the achievements and lengthy grinds are for. As I showed in my previous post, all these free companies have no trouble setting up events to do this short but farmable content and the scheduling can help people with limited time get the content done.

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It's not normal for the game director to tell us to play a different game.

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Maybe not, but because Yoshi-P has designed the game around most people's casual gaming habits, he knows that every patch will get people to login for a few days and that he won't lose those players forever because he's designed it to work for them.

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It's time for Square Enix to fix that by providing more incentives for group content instead of making everything single-player like the shareholders tell them.

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Last time I checked, most of the content in the game was designed for a party except quests.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

It's not mentality issue, it's called strawmen and reaching, which is what you're doing. Ultimate sitting behind Savage is what you call progression. Do you know why?

Because if you step into Ultimate without Savage gears, you're literally gonna get ONE SHOT by the first mechanic. And that's not an exaggeration. Even in BiS gear, missing a single mit or missing even just food and you gonna still get high rolled to the floor. Going in there with a whole tier of gear missing ? Yeah, unless you want to just zoning into the area counted as "accessing" content, than power to you, but I think most people won't.

- There are gating that naturally make sense, and usually people just see it as a sequence. Finish the story of the previous expack before the current one. Clearing the previous floor of a raid before accessing the next one.

- There are gating that's a necessity for the medium, like weekly cap. No player like it, but it's there 'cause no MMO can hope to survive without it.

- And there are gating like the one you're requesting, gating only for the shake of gating and nothing else. Thanks but no thanks.




Hear that, the man who said not everything need to be catered to anyone, yet accusing people disagree as people selfish only care about themselves with a straight face.

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Funny how its actually you being the strawman here. Keep making lame excuses for why they shouldnt continue doing unique things for the systems already built into this game. Keep discouraging the devs from trying to find different ways to do the content we already do just for the sake of wanting to make everyone happy, in a community space where people do their own thing. Oh how terrible it is for those whom dont care about FC stuff miss out on new activities you can do with an FC, how terrible it is for them to dedicate resources for updating pvp even though a lot of us tend to not care for it. How dare they branch out and make new forms of content. This is the same problem MMOs like WoW had with them introducing new gameplay systems but then soon abandon them and never update them.

I already said I dont much care for FCs but I know a ton of people whom put hours of work running their own little communities and I feel it would be cool if they ever create more things for that circle of space within FFXIV. But no just because YOU decide to not care for it, then it's not worth it. Yes I do know that they tried systems like this with Diadem and what not and it failed, but I would never want for them to just not try again and make something better.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

All of this is a symptom of the truth, which is that if you ever used Steam, you would notice that all of the people on a friends list usually play a game or DLC that just came out for a few days, then they finish it and stop playing. When an MMO releases a new patch, they are usually playing it for a few days, then they play something else. This is so easy to see on Steam that once you've seen it, you understand exactly why SE makes patch content that can be finished within a few days. Because most gamers will only consume it for a few days and move onto the next game.

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Thanks. I had long forgotten about this problem and why I just stick with an MMO (and this one in particular.)

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I already said I dont much care for FCs but I know a ton of people whom put hours of work running their own little communities and I feel it would be cool if they ever create more things for that circle of space within FFXIV. But no just because YOU decide to not care for it, then it's not worth it. Yes I do know that they tried systems like this with Diadem and what not and it failed, but I would never want for them to just not try again and make something better.

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It might be cool if they did something, but why? You say they can try again make something better. What does that look like?

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Funny how its actually you being the strawman here. Keep making lame excuses for why they shouldnt continue doing unique things for the systems already built into this game. Keep discouraging the devs from trying to find different ways to do the content we already do just for the sake of wanting to make everyone happy, in a community space where people do their own thing. Oh how terrible it is for those whom dont care about FC stuff miss out on new activities you can do with an FC, how terrible it is for them to dedicate resources for updating pvp even though a lot of us tend to not care for it. How dare they branch out and make new forms of content. This is the same problem MMOs like WoW had with them introducing new gameplay systems but then soon abandon them and never update them.

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Yeah dude, like I can't even make out what you're trying to say here, seem like you just picking up random stuff and make it into a rambling hotpot. You're desperately projecting and putting words in my mouth. So hope you don't mind if I just stop responding to you in this thread.

In a way though, this kinda remind me how politician act. One side wrote a bill like "This bill will support the working class!", but also attach a "pork" provision in the same bill about giving take break to the rich. So when the opposition denies to support the bill (because of the tax break), they accuse the opposition as anti-working class because they didn't agree to said bill.

My parting work to you: your claim about making new content and your demand for FC exclusive content are two - completely - separated - things. They're like the main text and the pork of a house bill. I have no problem with your main text, but I don't like your pork, that's all there is to it.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Try joining one of them and see how it is when, out of 150+ people, only <10 are online at primetime.

It's time for us to realize that we've been living in an echo chamber. It's not normal for the game director to tell us to play a different game. It's not normal for an MMO to struggle in social activities. It's not normal for FFXIV players to genuinely loathe having to play their own game. Most of us have very, very low standards. The player base just doesn't seem to enjoy FFXIV like they do other games. And while one can certainly opt to play old content, or make do with what we have, players just simply aren't in the mood for that. That's why they take breaks for months at a time. It's time for Square Enix to fix that by providing more incentives for group content instead of making everything single-player like the shareholders tell them.

Or you can play other games, your choice. I'm sticking with FFXIV.

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You mention wanting more group content - fine, I can get behind that idea (though I do believe that adding as much flexiability to content as possible when it comes the amount of people needed is a good thing, since it allows you to actually play the game when you want to play it, not sit around and wait for other people...).
But what would be the benefit to limit that group content artificial to only the FC you're in? Assuming this mysterious content needs somewhat fixed numbers of people (and if its only a soft-cap like "With less than 4 of us we dont need to attempt it, it wont work") you've now limited the pool of potential people to group with to your FC - so from a few thousand on your datacenter to a few houndred (max) in your FC. If one person misses the date you set for some reason you cant just recruit a replacement from your friendslist or through PF, you potentially dont get to do that content for that day, great! I dont know if you can relate to this experience but on occassions people in my static bailed with very short notice or no notice at all - from PCs breaking down to family emergencies to forgetting the time and oversleeping. Most of the time we've been able to find a replacement, usually drawing from our friendslists. Had we been limited to just people from our FC, this would not have been possible and quite a few evenings would have ended with 7 people not playing the game.

So sure, lets have more group content - but you're not doing anyone a favor, not even yourself, if you lock this content behind or for FCs. Organising scheduldes with people who have jobs, families, different timezones is difficult as it is... Limiting the pool of people to draw from to FCs wont do the social aspect much good, I believe - now you get requirements like "must be playing between 8 and 11pm on at least three weekdays and a whole day every weekend or you'll be removed from the FC".

At the end of the day, I find FFXIV very much enjoyable without being forced into social activities - for me this is a game, that I want to play when I want to play, first. While I enjoy the social interactions and have made quite a few friends I'm not paying my subscribtion for those, I'm paying to play a game. And that means actually getting to play it - not having google docs to figure out when everyone would be available to do stuff.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Try joining one of them and see how it is when, out of 150+ people, only <10 are online at primetime.

It's time for us to realize that we've been living in an echo chamber. It's not normal for the game director to tell us to play a different game. It's not normal for an MMO to struggle in social activities. It's not normal for FFXIV players to genuinely loathe having to play their own game. Most of us have very, very low standards. The player base just doesn't seem to enjoy FFXIV like they do other games. And while one can certainly opt to play old content, or make do with what we have, players just simply aren't in the mood for that. That's why they take breaks for months at a time. It's time for Square Enix to fix that by providing more incentives for group content instead of making everything single-player like the shareholders tell them.

Or you can play other games, your choice. I'm sticking with FFXIV.

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This this this this this

Quote:

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Try joining one of them and see how it is when, out of 150+ people, only <10 are online at primetime.

It's time for us to realize that we've been living in an echo chamber. It's not normal for the game director to tell us to play a different game. It's not normal for an MMO to struggle in social activities. It's not normal for FFXIV players to genuinely loathe having to play their own game. Most of us have very, very low standards. The player base just doesn't seem to enjoy FFXIV like they do other games. And while one can certainly opt to play old content, or make do with what we have, players just simply aren't in the mood for that. That's why they take breaks for months at a time. It's time for Square Enix to fix that by providing more incentives for group content instead of making everything single-player like the shareholders tell them.

Or you can play other games, your choice. I'm sticking with FFXIV.

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Nothing here is normal and that's probably the best thing about this game and why I choose to stick around. I've been more social here and made more connections than other MMOs because there's more freedom to do so. I'm not wasting energy sitting around in a glorified chatroom hoping someone will see me advertising my class in the sea of LFG messages.

It's great to have the option to play at one's leisure and not just be forced into unsubbing because no one's around to do anything, especially the older content. What to farm old EX or savage content for a mount? You can find people to do that. Nothing feels forced, but that's exactly where we would be headed if they re-introduced the idea of FC activities. People can already to plenty if they put their minds to it.

At the end of the day, folks like you have nothing concrete to offer in the way of ideas, only complaints about how things are. Maybe you should channel that energy into improving the social situation in your neck of the woods.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Try joining one of them and see how it is when, out of 150+ people, only <10 are online at primetime.

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It's called people have lives with varying schedules. It's unrealistic for everyone to be online at the same time.

I also wouldn't be surprised if 2/3s of those 150+ members are alts. People who are happy with their FCs and also enjoy playing alts tend to move their alts into the same FC.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

It's time for us to realize that we've been living in an echo chamber.

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It's not an echo chamber when there are dissenting opinions, as is clearly happening in this thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

It's not normal for the game director to tell us to play a different game.

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You're right. It's not normal behavior for a Game Director. It's refreshingly different to have a Game Producer and Director that is grounded in the reality of what it is to be someone who plays games instead of a MBA that only understands log in statistics.

You know what else isn't normal? Expecting people to play a single game and no others.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

It's not normal for an MMO to struggle in social activities.

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How on earth do you think this game is struggling in social activities when the forum is littered with complaints about players advertising their social activities in PF?

Social activities are player generated, not game generated.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

It's not normal for FFXIV players to genuinely loathe having to play their own game.

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1) I'm a FFXIV player. I don't loathe playing the game. I'm enjoying it.
2) No one is forced to play the game.
3) Only idiots continue to play a game they no longer enjoy. Sounds like you've surrounded yourself with idiots if you don't know anyone who is enjoying the game.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Most of us have very, very low standards.

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Stop thinking that "standards" are standard. Players are looking for different things. It's up to the individual to find the game that provides what they're looking for. It's not up to the game to tailor itself to each individual player's "standards".

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

The player base just doesn't seem to enjoy FFXIV like they do other games.

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This is no different from any other game. Go into other game forums and you'll find just as many of its players complaining about their game (assuming the moderation team doesn't remove negative feedback which is done in some forums).

Once again it sounds like you're surrounding yourself with idiots who are forcing themselves to play a game they hate instead of quitting and playing a different game if you think the player base isn't enjoying this game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

And while one can certainly opt to play old content, or make do with what we have, players just simply aren't in the mood for that. That's why they take breaks for months at a time. It's time for Square Enix to fix that by providing more incentives for group content instead of making everything single-player like the shareholders tell them.

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And it's fine for players to take breaks when they've run out of things they want to do here.

Why do you keep failing to understand that?

We don't need more incentives for group content. There are plenty already.

You want to know what turns most solo players into solo players? It's people acting like jerks in group content. No sane person wants to deal with that. No reward SE gives is going to be enough to entice players sick and tired of the jerks into doing group content.

If you want more to do group content, make being part of the group a fun and enjoyable experience. Kick the jerks instead of making excuses for them.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Or you can play other games, your choice. I'm sticking with FFXIV.

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Why are you sticking to a game you apparently loathe?

Do you think it's suddenly going to change if you stick around long enough?

If you want it to change, then you need to be the change you want to see. If you want the game to be more social, then you need to step up and facilitate social activity.

btw, if it feels like an echo chamber, you might actually be wrong.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

btw, if it feels like an echo chamber, you might actually be wrong.

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No...and furthermore there is a HUGE stigma about our community in literally every other place outside of the official forums when it comes to any form of criticism regarding ffxiv and as someone who has supported since 1.0 beta i think im more than qualified to say.....innovation is long overdue. And for the love of god not everyone wants to keep running old content! im so sick and tired of people bragging like there is so much content stop the cap...glamour is NOT content its glamour!

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Originally Posted by MonteCristo

No...and furthermore there is a HUGE stigma about our community in literally every other place outside of the official forums when it comes to any form of criticism regarding ffxiv

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The stigma comes from people who wilfully ignore how people do criticize the game in a healthy way.

I have conversations in novice networks a lot and elsewhere in the game and when there is something that is legitimately a problem with the game we just all agree that it's a problem and explain that it is to sprouts and move on. For example, people usually universally agree having to go through the base game and 4 expansions worth of MSQ and their patches is daunting to new players and a problem and we are honest about this to sprouts so that they know what they are getting into. We are honest about little annoying things like the clicking people by accident and losing a GCD and just say well, yes, it's a problem and just got to put up with it.

Where people start being excessively positive is when someone else is being excessively negative. It's a glass half-full or glass half-empty thing. Some people are glass half-empty types and just want to be excessively negative as if the glass is entirely empty, so people with a glass half-full perspective try to help them see the positives.

The whole point of the forums is for your idea to be scrutinized. Even if you have a point, we have to play devil's advocate and find any holes in them.

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And for the love of god not everyone wants to keep running old content!

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Veterans don't but as I explained in an earlier post, the majority of people who play now were not even around in the first half of Stormblood and have a lot to catch up on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MonteCristo

No...and furthermore there is a HUGE stigma about our community in literally every other place outside of the official forums when it comes to any form of criticism regarding ffxiv and as someone who has supported since 1.0 beta i think im more than qualified to say.....innovation is long overdue. And for the love of god not everyone wants to keep running old content! im so sick and tired of people bragging like there is so much content stop the cap...glamour is NOT content its glamour!

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Few are going to be against innovation.

Trying to force players to join FCs (or a game's equivalent) by locking content access behind FC membership isn't innovation. It's been tried by other games in the past - and failed hard. It's why games no longer do it.

Just because you've done all the content before doesn't mean there isn't a lot of content in the game. Talk to any new player and they are overwhelmed by the amount of content there is.

That is why people need to be playing different games - so they don't keep doing the same thing over and over and over until they're so sick of it they can't do it anymore. There's only so much content a single development team can produce at a time.

Thinking that throwing more bodies at a game solves it is a fallacy. Ask Blizzard what happened when they almost doubled their staff thinking that it would allow them to create and release content faster. We ended up with Warlords of Draenor, arguably the worst expansion in the games history at that time.

Most innovation comes through the need to solve problems that others haven't solved and/or gain an edge in competition. Everyone has their own ideas about what are the problems in the game, and SE may or may not agree. They also may or may not have the ability to address those problems depending on what they are.

Player socialization is not something they can solve. While they can offer content that facilitates socialization, designing that content in such a way as to force players to socialize is a good way to lose players. Not everyone has the same needs and desires for socialization.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MonteCristo

No...and furthermore there is a HUGE stigma about our community in literally every other place outside of the official forums when it comes to any form of criticism regarding ffxiv and as someone who has supported since 1.0 beta i think im more than qualified to say.....innovation is long overdue. And for the love of god not everyone wants to keep running old content! im so sick and tired of people bragging like there is so much content stop the cap...glamour is NOT content its glamour!

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I don't care how long you've been around. That doesn't mean all your ideas are good. If you want to throw out a legit innovative idea, I'm all ears. This is nothing but a poor excuse for laziness in FCs. SE cannot save you from yourselves and your lack of initiative.

I think this would be a great idea. Rewards could give a few things when you complete them (please dont do it if only the leader gets something) like gil and items for everyone in the fc. The fc leader could get the other rewards plus a free higher tier buff and and some credits for the fc.

For items maybe it could be from the loot pool of what the subs can bring back?

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

I don't care how long you've been around. That doesn't mean all your ideas are good. If you want to throw out a legit innovative idea, I'm all ears. This is nothing but a poor excuse for laziness in FCs. SE cannot save you from yourselves and your lack of initiative.

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New school vs ol school...we literally see from 2 different perspectives. Id debate with u but truth be told it doesnt matter cuz the gag is..SE doesnt rly read NA forums so like someone said before this is all banter in the end but for the record you being newer doesn't mean your ideas or POV is valid either. Furthermore, to be very blunt...u likely wont support this game nearly as long as i have and for that reason alone your opinion is valid but doesnt really hold weight because its extremely biased seeing as you arent trying to consider povs of those who have been playing far longer than you have.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MonteCristo

No...and furthermore there is a HUGE stigma about our community in literally every other place outside of the official forums when it comes to any form of criticism regarding ffxiv and as someone who has supported since 1.0 beta i think im more than qualified to say.....innovation is long overdue. And for the love of god not everyone wants to keep running old content! im so sick and tired of people bragging like there is so much content stop the cap...glamour is NOT content its glamour!

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Yes, innovation can be a good thing - if you ask me it was a great innovation to move raids into the DF (instead of having to walk up to the entrance to queue for them), the addition of PF was amazing (no more shouting "We need a bard or paladin!" near wineport when one of the 8 people in your static didnt show up on raid day), even adding the more difficult content to DF so that you can give them a shot (more or less successful) even if you dont get a full party together, being able to unsyc content thats not current anymore and thus allowing you to attempt it with a more flexiable number of people, the new Criterion Dungeons that offer a challenge for light parties instead of a full party (so you only work around 4 schedudles instead of 8), even the addition of Squadrons and Trusts, which argueably into more of a solo-experience but also more into the experience of a game you get to play at any time you want instead of a waiting game if you happent to want (or "need") way outside of primehours for your server.

All those things I'd label innovations - those ideas move away from the notion that finding people to play with or waiting around for them to show up is the main appeal of the game and instead make sure that you actually get to play the game.

I'm starting to wonder - how often have you (or anyone wanting more of this mysterious, innovative FC-content) organised some kind of event that required a large number of people to show up at a certain time? I dont want to make assumptions but my guess would: not to often - maybe because it can be frustarting and tiresome? And maybe thats why you want the game to do that for you, basically? But the game cant do that. The game cant change the workhours, timezone differences and other obligations people have outside of the game that lead to clashing scheduldes. I'd like to see the "innovation" that fixes this problem...
You could argue now that we need something that would lead to people making this game their priority - the FC-content would need to be so great that they're willing to make accomodations to take part in it that they're currently not willing to make. And I'm not sure thats really a good idea or something we should really ask for/promote - I'm saying that as someone whos been raiding with a static with 3 timezones for the past few years. In order to do that, some of us stay up a little later than they probably schuld during the week, some get up a little bit earlier than they'd like so they can join us before heading out to work and some rush home from work - its not an ideal situation for anyone, but its the only way this works. And we're willing to do it this way because we enjoy each others company and playing together, so we're making this work somehow.
But I cant imagine this on a bigger scale - currently this is managing 8 people. For FC-content I'd expect it would allow for a lot more people to join - and ideally for less, too. You'd end up picking your FC based on overlapping scheduldes, not on (social) compatibility. You might end up with more "lively" FCs, but not more social ones.
...or it would have no effect at all, because people would decide that its not worth bothering with it in the first place if its impacting their lives and/or enjoyment of the general game to much. Very likely scenario, if Diadem is any hint to go by. In which case we'd have content thats pretty dead, pretty fast.

All in all I cant help but wonder if these requests mostly come from people who dont realise that maintaining realtionships and specially managing large groups (and keeping them together against all odds!) will always take effort. It wont get any easier if there is an extra incentive in the form of content that you only get to see if someone puts in that effort. And I'm wondering how many people who wish for more FC-content would be willing to be the "someone" putting in the effort of setting a date, that most people can make, making sure that no one is excluded, making sure that everyone gets treated fairly (or at least feels like they've been treated fairly), that no one is uncomfortable and that everyone is having fun. Because the game cant be that someone - it can only provide the playground, as it already does. Inviting your friends to come there, will always be up to you. Sure, the playground could always do with more slides and swings and a better sandbox - but getting together will always be up to the players. And if you dont feel like putting in that effort right now with all the toys available... I doubt a new toy, even one thats locked behind "you need so many friends online at the same time", is going to make that any easier.