Is there no medium difficulty content or am I just too stupid?

extremes, variant and exploratory zones are medium difficulty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CNitsah

I'd say midcore content is not only about difficulty but also accessibility for the greater number of players. And the fact everyone consider you' can't do extreme in pick up, I'd argue Extreme were never midcore content.

Their difficulty might be midtier, that doesn't make them midcore content. The whole argument of midcore content has nothing to do with the subject. Mid difficulty is what the game lacks. Midcore content is about content with high longevity for players that play more than the casuals, while not asking the lvl of commitment the hardcore content asks. Even if the difficulty is midtier, asking a player to have a static or making premade to progress in the content is not midcore content.
.

---

Uh ... what fact? What do you mean you can't do extreme in pick up? Assuming by pickup you mean PF or pug, then that is absolutely false. I have 100 totems every EX in this expansion, so like ... 50*6 = 300 clears, and that only on my main, I can probably add another 50 clears or so if I round up my alts. Not even a handful of those clears were with a static. Within the first 2-3 months of their release, EX farming group literally DOMINATE the party finder. "pick up" groups never really have problem clearing "any" EX on the first day or the first week of release. All of these are not opinion, they are not alternate context, they are simply objective and observable fact that everyone can verify for every-single-EX ever released. They are NOT debatable.

Like ... I'm starting to see the pattern here, it seems the people complaining about the lack of midcore content seem to live in an alternative reality. Do you guys like ... just step in this content for one pull, couldn't get it, then decide "nah this is too hard" !? The issue here doesn't seem to be a lack of midcore content, but some players just have such a low ceiling for both skill and effort that anything beyond the most casual of content are automatically viewed as "hardcore".

FYI, pick up group can also capable clear savage and even ultimate content. So claiming they can't do EX is laughable, and only show you don't actually try to put even the minimum of effort into it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raven2014

Uh ... what fact? What do you mean you can't do extreme in pick up? Assuming by pickup you mean PF or pug, then that is absolutely false. I have 100 totems every EX in this expansion, so like ... 50*6 = 300 clears, and that only on my main, I can probably add another 50 clears or so if I round up my alts. Not even a handful of those clears were with a static. Within the first 2-3 months of their release, EX farming group literally DOMINATE the party finder. "pick up" groups never really have problem clearing "any" EX on the first day or the first week of release. All of these are not opinion, they are not alternate context, they are simply objective and observable fact that everyone can verify for every-single-EX ever released. They are NOT debatable.

Like ... I'm starting to see the pattern here, it seems the people complaining about the lack of midcore content seem to live in an alternative reality (stop putting words in my mouth, I would appreciate it). Do you guys like ... just step in this content for one pull, couldn't get it, then decide "nah this is too hard" !? The issue here doesn't seem to be a lack of midcore content, but some players just have such a low ceiling for both skill and effort that anything beyond the most casual of content are automatically viewed as "hardcore".

FYI, pick up group can also capable clear savage and even ultimate content. So claiming they can't do EX is laughable, and only show you don't actually try to put even the minimum of effort into it.

---

I meant use the duty finder. The fact that everyone agrees that you don't use the duty finder to make extreme, but you go pf that most seasonned players won't even touch with a stick (or better have a static), because of how most of the players go there blind.

My whole point is that midcore content is not only about difficulty, but also about accessibility. Something that asks you to book a day/evening to run the content in good condition seems difficult to be considered as midcore to me. Even if its difficulty is midtier. I don't know if there is completion stats of the extremes somewhere, but I sure met far more people that play a lot and don't engage in extreme that the contrary. (btw, most of the extreme PF are unsync old expansion trials.) I don't consider extremes too hard. I just rarely engage in them because I don't like the idea of having to organize my life around a game. Because that what you have to do if you want to run the content in good condition.

And no, I don't consider there is no midcore content in the game. Relics use to be that (Doing Bozja one for the storyline is casual content, farming it for xp/relics/mount/anything else is midcore). Masked Carnivale is Midcore content. Collecting TT card is midcore content (You have to do everything in the game to get them all). Midcore content is content to keep the players that don't just do the storylines in the game. Midtier difficulty and Midcore content are not the same thing, even if they partially overlap.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CNitsah

I meant use the duty finder.

---

Because "duty finder" is what people use for "casual content". So roulette, normal raid, alliance raid .etc. are pop using duty finder because they are casual. People don't use DF for EX not because it's not midcore content, but because it's not casual content.

Quote:

---

The fact that everyone agrees that you don't use the duty finder to make extreme, but you go pf that most seasonned players won't even touch with a stick (or better have a static), because of how most of the players go there blind.

---

Everything else you say here is paternally fail. You seem to come to conclusion based on second handed information. Like to be fair, it's actually not an uncommon take. But it's usually perpetuated by people who strictly live inside a static bubble who seem to think they need a static for "everything" beyond casual content, and the casual players who take these "wrong" take for granted and never verify it for themselves. The fact is: you don't need a static for "anything" in this game. And the way you presented your point, you definitely fall into one of these two groups, who share a common perception there isn't a world exist outside of a static.


As great as it is to have a static, they're too have their own limitation. Most prominent issue is the time limitation, and most people who engage in EX-content and above will often play way more than than the time available in a normal static, which bringing up the next point ...

Quote:

---

My whole point is that midcore content is not only about difficulty, but also about accessibility. Something that asks you to book a day/evening to run the content in good condition seems difficult to be considered as midcore to me.

---

Again, the highlighted part suggest you're basing your entire point on hearsay and rumor. Because anyone with actual practical experience will tell you that you flat out 100% wrong.

EX is extremely accessible, unless you make a weird rule about everything that's not pop in DF is "inaccessible". I mean ... treasure map is an activity that outside an FC, is strictly set up via PF because you can't DF it. Does that make Treasure map inaccessible or "hardcore"? Because that exactly the category your current definition of accessibility gonna put it at. Ayoo, treasure map is like ... one of the most "accessible" and "casual" 8 men content in the game. S Also, some of the old 24men that people purposely avoid (like Rubanatree or the Neir raid) which make them hard to pop via DF, so per your argument, they're not very accessible, does this also turn these content into "hardcore"? So the point about DF vs PF is completely moot.


Coming back to the limitation of a static. The reason none of my statics had ever farm EX together due to 2 simple reasons: it's easy enough that you don't need a static for it, and it's something easier to do it in your own time. Like: still having 30min before I go to work? Let get a couple of clear in. Or trying to do a few runs before going to bed. Or hey, it's the weekend, I have a lot of time to play so let's get 5+ clears in today. And you can do it almost at any time you want outside of the time the "bed time" of your server. In fact, when an EX come out, getting a group up running for it tend to take less time than the queue time a DPS would have to spend on some of the roulette. So if that's not accessible, I don't know what else is.

Lower your iLevel to adjust for difficulty, as for AI and whatever, there is none.

Easy content: hanging out in limsa
Medium content: farming for glams, capping tomestones
Hard content: savage, ultimates
Extremely hard content: trying to buy a house

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AlexanderOrnitier

Hm, thats disappointing. Im not gonna do it then. Everything that involves spreadsheets and requiring you to watch a 30 min guide(for example p7s has a 30 min guide on yt) multiple times im out of. Anyway thanks for the feeback :)

---

its why you run on release day. everyone goes in blind and its a pretty fun experience truthfully and the satisfaction is way way up there in terms of completing it.

We used to have Hard Mode for Primals as a stepping stone between MSQ and Extreme. Ifrit, Titan and Garuda. Then they stopped doing that...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raven2014

Again, the highlighted part suggest you're basing your entire point on hearsay and rumor. Because anyone with actual practical experience will tell you that you flat out 100% wrong.

---

It's not a rumor, that how players play game. Mentor roulette rarely get extreme for that reason, and when they do they rarely get to the end. Extreme ask for communication and organisation that seems to much for duty finder.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raven2014

Or hey, it's the weekend, I have a lot of time to play so let's get 5+ clears in today. And you can do it almost at any time you want outside of the time the "bed time" of your server. In fact, when an EX come out, getting a group up running for it tend to take less time than the queue time a DPS would have to spend on some of the roulette. So if that's not accessible, I don't know what else is.

---

It's so accessible, look you just have to organise your life around it and be sure to commit to be there every week. You don't want to play that day for any reason. Yeah no, go play or else you'll get kicked out. Yeah super accessible. Sure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raven2014

snip

---

How exactly is EX very accessible? Seriously, you spend more than twice the time in PF queue during an average day than you do for any regular Duty in DF. People are rarely interested in doing older EX synced, most of the groups you get are for current. Heck, people in PF will even hesitate to enter Normal content, I did a Recruitment for Shinryu Normal to avoid burning through its HP yesterday night and spent 40 minutes in queue, NO ONE entered the party.

If it was really accessible we wouldn't need to join a FC or change DC/World in order to queue. I'm from Primal, a DC known for having a decently sized population of endgame players, and I still have to jump into Aether to have a chance to recruit people. Not to mention, pugging an EX is more often than not a painful task that will have people quitting after the third wipe. You can't pretend Trials with obscure Mechanics like Sephirot and Ramuh are "accessible midcore content".

Normal Difficulty content would actually feel like NORMAL if SE put at least a grain of effort into making it properly sync with current stat levels; the only reason so much of the content feels easy it's because it dies before it gets the chance to do anything interesting or force players into a tight spot. Shinryu STILL has interesting mechanics, heck even effing Bismarck does, they just explode before you can experience a quarter of it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CNitsah

It's not a rumor, that how players play game. Mentor roulette rarely get extreme for that reason, and when they do they rarely get to the end. Extreme ask for communication and organisation that seems to much for duty finder.

---

Not even sure what this mean? outside of day 1 learning party there is almost zero communication in EX. I know for sure I rarely type anything when I do EX. Also, it's "Mid-core", isn't that what you're asking for? Because literally everything you describe so far is "casual" oriented. It looks like you're not looking for midcore content, you want midcore content to become casual

Quote:

---

It's so accessible, look you just have to organise your life around it and be sure to commit to be there every week. You don't want to play that day for any reason. Yeah no, go play or else you'll get kicked out. Yeah super accessible. Sure.

---

Again, paternally fail. You either making it up or you just not reading what I said. EX is something I can plug into the play routine anytime I want. Even if I only have a short 15min window here and there, I can still pop in, get one clear and get back to RL stuffs. You are either making thing up, or just echo what you heard from some really bad influencer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aldath

snip

---

So ... after trying to include accessibility, now we also gonna include server status as part of the definition? I mean ... if a server or content is death enough, even DF roulette can become inaccessible, that doesn't up-tier the content ... does it? No, I'm not even gonna jump down that rabbithole.


And you know, why there is a distinction between casual and mid-core to begin with? Oh right, because mid-core would, and should require some more effort to do, with that effort can come in several different way. So I just re-iterate my observation here:


+ Midcore-content does already exist.
+ You don't see it because you're not actually looking for midcore content.
+ What you're looking for is more casual content.
+ Because any amount of effort beyond casual is seen as hardcore to you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CNitsah

It's not a rumor, that how players play game. Mentor roulette rarely get extreme for that reason, and when they do they rarely get to the end. Extreme ask for communication and organisation that seems to much for duty finder.

It's so accessible, look you just have to organise your life around it and be sure to commit to be there every week. You don't want to play that day for any reason. Yeah no, go play or else you'll get kicked out. Yeah super accessible. Sure.

---

Extremes don't require a static and they are all accessible. Just join or make a PF party, like you'd do for maps, hunts and BLU spells. Farming level 80 and 90 extremes for mounts is midcore content, anything below that could be classed as easy casual content when unsynced.

The reason mentor roulette extremes fail is because the groups are made of fresh level 50 players who are not prepared for midcore content. They don't read chat, don't know how to play their job and don't know basic boss mechanics like enmity and killing adds. I was a mentor and completed a few extremes when the group wasn't a noobfest. I also completed those same fights as unreal trials with randoms. No voice comms or schedules were needed.

Are you all forgetting the point of midcore content? The point is that it's a step up from casual content one can do blind in 1-3 pulls. That step up can be improving one's rotation, watching a guide or joining a few different groups to practice before clearing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reinha

The reason mentor roulette extremes fail is because the groups are made of fresh level 50 players who are not prepared for midcore content. They don't read chat, don't know how to play their job and don't know basic boss mechanics like enmity and killing adds. I was a mentor and completed a few extremes when the group wasn't a noobfest. I also completed those same fights as unreal trials with randoms. No voice comms or schedules were needed.

Are you all forgetting the point of midcore content? The point is that it's a step up from casual content one can do blind in 1-3 pulls. That step up can be improving one's rotation, watching a guide or joining a few different groups to practice before clearing.

---

I think your meaning is for good, but if the midcore is for players from casual or relatively inexperienced, how does watching a guide or joining a few different groups should under its standard...

don't get me wrong, I absolutely not as experience as you, but I also tried DF lv50(and above) different EX/Savage to learn and help fresh player partys to practice or cleared before,
since I already love these content even when I was and still new (EX, Savage, MINE, DD.. etc), and would love to continue my journey, so I would assume myself at least a lowest level of the midcore player,
but it's off-topic, my apologize

yet.. learning is a process involves both theory and practice, does even learning all the markers, variants, mechanic names (many of these new and casual player may not even knowing its concept or where it's from),
or at least the guide of the battle you're aim for is something beginner guide and must do already? (as midcore "standard" to join the conent such as "EX", while we don't really know their experience)
and would not this kinda become a bias only becuase we already get ourself into it, and this is how currently FF14 is?

we all know that the game mechanic is something that building up in time, knowing server tick, many or all differnt trial's mechs, phases, hp check, enrage, strats.. etc
yet if the standard are building so high, does we even should count clearing all ARR-ShB's (or even EW) EX and easier/important Savage as require to enter midcore and hardcore?

it's not as different as to say "you don't like *** (fill in relic, eureka, island, DD ..etc)? just go and try it, you will get used to it / this is how we all start with"
who can't? to be tell everyone have the conent they having more hard time at the begin or don't interesting with, it's more about if the frustration meet our expectations for the experience

in my opinion, since FF14 is also more casual friendly, and no one love to call them self no-life hardcoreer, or the players who calling people don't like battle conent as a cancer,
whatever terms we (players who have more experience participants than inexperienced) want to use or distinguish between players' skills level,
(there's reason why we want to be Legends, Necromancer, Mentor of the Mentor, Big fish ...etc, or even just self-expected to be one of the best or kindest players, and for this content, I assume player's skills is a right term)
I think it's good to take more seriously that FF14's learning curve do is a bit steeper, and "this is how MMO should be" would not help from this

The only thing I would qualify as medium difficulty in this game are Extreme Trials, sometimes Unreal (depends on the trial and sync), first and maybe second floor of Savage. Problem is, that is extremely little, especially when patches are so far apart.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rolder50

The only thing I would qualify as medium difficulty in this game are Extreme Trials, sometimes Unreal (depends on the trial and sync), first and maybe second floor of Savage. Problem is, that is extremely little, especially when patches are so far apart.

---

Well, when you put it that way then the Hardcore group actually have even better ground to make complain because they even have less content. 'Cause that just leave them with the last 2 floors of savage and ultimate ... with the last one only touched by an extremely small amount of people.

While I understand the desire to have more content in the area of your interest, it's worth to remember FF14 is a game that's like a cake that try to server "everyone". So naturally everyone will get a smaller slice then they would normally get had the game catered to their specific group. And asking for your slice to be bigger is the same as asking other people to receive a smaller slice.

Rather instead of asking for a bigger slice, I get better millage by be able to eat more than one slice. Tbh casual, midcore, hardcore mean little to me in this game because I dive into and enjoy all of them equally. So any quantitative difference between them, if exists, doesn't mean much. On the other hand, if someone for "any reason" restrict and/or limit themselves to just some very specific slice of the FF14 cakes ... I don't think it's the game's fault they don't feel full after eating.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raven2014

Well, when you put it that way then the Hardcore group actually have even better ground to make complain because they even have less content. 'Cause that just leave them with the last 2 floors of savage and ultimate ... with the last one only touched by an extremely small amount of people.

While I understand the desire to have more content in the area of your interest, it's worth to remember FF14 is a game that's like a cake that try to server "everyone". So naturally everyone will get a smaller slice then they would normally get had the game catered to their specific group. And asking for your slice to be bigger is the same as asking other people to receive a smaller slice.

Rather instead of asking for a bigger slice, I get better millage by be able to eat more than one slice. Tbh casual, midcore, hardcore mean little to me in this game because I dive into and enjoy all of them equally. So any quantitative difference between them, if exists, doesn't mean much. On the other hand, if someone for "any reason" restrict and/or limit themselves to just some very specific slice of the FF14 cakes ... I don't think it's the game's fault they don't feel full after eating.

---

First couple floors of savage or a hard thing to gauge; it really depends on the person. But with the amount of time savage can take and especially ultimate, I think it's fine.

But anyway the biggest issue is that the lower end stuff is almost entirely one and done with no replayability value. If we're going food metaphors, it's like you finished your meal and want seconds, but the kitchen is empty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raven2014

snip

---

I kinda both agree and doubt with Raven, most of EXs or even early Savage wouldn't need static and scheduling, especially those old content
while I dobut about the time cost even it's understandable for the message length
(it's oftenly not for those party still need to practice of anything, which I would said even 1-3 times re-enter for some EXs & party is not that unfair)

I think one of biggest problem is that FF14 don't really give player a good answer of how they able to start with
and people's advices could be very different, make things only become more complex
(such as recommand everyone unsync as much as possible til EW/currently patch, so they can reach other players)
even EXs, there's some that fairly easy and friendly to begin, such as ARR EX and those old conent before x.2-4 (becuase of max ilvl),
yet also there's something they can give you good challenging, and ranking would very different depend ilvl, party and patch changes.
(rip falling off cliff, I will miss you)

and when people want to begin with, it's really not rare that they would have to traveling between DC for PF even in the weekend, especially many of easier EX/Savage often are old content,
yes, people who tried often end up having CWLS, Discord, FC or static, yet it become other circle becuase the original group's demand might be saturated, so there's always needed of new bloods to make it alive.

which why I think / agree with other's opinion that bring back hard mode to live with lower max ilvl require could be a solution,
so people wouldn't afraid of it in daily roulette, story-mainly players can be clear without (or very few) wipe,
when the time cost is expectable low, people who better as like you might also have higher chance willing to join or help than a off-patch sync or MINE pf,
and people can also understand those mechs better since currently most of NM&HM related are not... really that helpful imo.
hope SE would at least have some QoL improve to these in the future

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rolder50

But anyway the biggest issue is that the lower end stuff is almost entirely one and done with no replayability value. If we're going food metaphors, it's like you finished your meal and want seconds, but the kitchen is empty.

---

totally agree (to both actually, I like taste too much side of this cake, so I have bias. lol


or there's may have it (in kitchen), but it's piles of foods in the fridge and you don't know if some of it was expired (tons of content yet they might having trouble to find what's good to start with)
since many of our experiences are quite different, some are MMOs, FF or RPG fans, some love optimize data and meta,
some are game devs, music composer... etc who curious about sth. and there's someone's grandpa and grandma who hype to joining the race (half joke)
so our understanding could be quite different too

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rolder50

But anyway the biggest issue is that the lower end stuff is almost entirely one and done with no replayability value. If we're going food metaphors, it's like you finished your meal and want seconds, but the kitchen is empty.

---

But that only if you want the same dish though, whether FF14 is more like a full course meal. Like, you finish the appetizer and want a 2nd serving, then yeah the kitchen won't have one, but not because you don't have anything left to eat, but because you're supposed to move to the next dish in the course. Which is exactly my point.

For example: I don't EX is short or 1 shot content, unless you're extremely lucky and get the mount early. For most people, it's a 50 fights marathon (with some turn into a sprint). Usually by the time I finish farming the EX, the next content will start, like in this case savage. It will keep me occupied for a time. By the time I round up savage, usually the next EX or 24 men will be around the corner. And that's not taking into other stuffs in between like Criterion in this expansion or the Relic grind in previous expansion.

So like I said, if you're someone who can get into more than a few type contents, you get the most out of the game. FF14 is more of a full-course meal rather than a buffet, and definitely not a specialized restaurant.