Get rid of SAM Limit break gimmick already (FL)

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Originally Posted by AnnRam

The only reason people pick SAM in frontlines it's to piss off everyone with their Chiten+LB.

I can't see between 20 players in the screen even with most of the visual effects off the SAM who comes with chiten up since you have no indicators, no visual animation, chiten blinks for 1 second when they cast it and that's all then you have to target the sam and follow the chiten buff until expires , this meanwhile I've to deal with another 10 players around me or probably another 2-3 SAM's from both alliances.

I'm not talking about the OBVIOUS SAM player who dives 1vs24 thinking he will wipe an entire alliance with his gimmick playstyle.

My point ; is not fair to instantly DIE and lose max BH because one of my AOES in BETWEEN so many people poked one of the 5 SAMS with chiten and then get deleted instantly without any counter play.

MCH Chain Saw got nerfed to 95% of total HP, so if don't see why Chiten+LB would leave the target in 1 hp at least.

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hey you have good taste friend, also you can survive a Meme combo from samurai just by using a personal barrier that adds to your health (I.E Houton as ninja and survive with 5% or less hp.)

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Originally Posted by Towa-Musa

hey you have good taste friend, also you can survive a Meme combo from samurai just by using a personal barrier that adds to your health (I.E Houton as ninja and survive with 5% or less hp.)

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Yeah i suggested this too.. the problem is that in frontline, you dont see enemies LB and you can't just "not use" your barrier(s) cause you have to keep it just in case you sneezee near a SAM in 72ppl mess.. also sometimes this happens (i attack a sam by mistake) , notice the debuff and even if i immediately press barrier it's too late

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Originally Posted by Vatom

Too easy I'm not gonna bite
The last reply wasn't exactly for you
you were just an example
but you can continue

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Dude shut up, you are just as bad as ransu when it comes to disagreeing with people. **hur dur** you're bad because of *insert stupid reason here*

Yeah netcode will laugh at you :/
@garten

I have a counterproposal.. let's leave everything like it is, BUT let me instakick whoever get killed by an enemy sam chiten+lb.. sure it could happen to me once every ten matches.. but i am SO FUCKING TIRED of teammates getting OBLITERATED 4-5 times a match AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN.. jesus
i'll do better without those

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Originally Posted by Garten

I have a counterproposal.. let's leave everything like it is, BUT let me instakick whoever get killed by an enemy sam chiten+lb.. sure it could happen to me once every ten matches.. but i am SO FUCKING TIRED of teammates getting OBLITERATED 4-5 times a match AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN.. jesus
i'll do better without those

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lol that wont happen, you know it wont.

yeah sorry, i'll just do my last vent and then i'll go for today:

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...9db4d3a740.jpg

The green canceld character in this match killed those ppl just by its lb, in the previous match he killed me Once and other 23 ppls just by its one trick.

this time i followed him the entired match to get revenged (edit: and managed to kill him to disrupt his game) lol.. but just to tell how one trick pony can do so much damage in this damned "unbalanced" mode.. and there's no grade of my yelling at my team to beware of sam chiten that will stop this..

/endrant

I'd take pre 6.0 PvP if it meant changing Samurai's LB.

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Originally Posted by Northar

I'd take pre 6.0 PvP if it meant changing Samurai's LB.

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Ngl I miss pre-6.1 Samurai for PvP that was some good fun.

Add ninja to the list of jobs that are completely unbalanced in frontlines since it completely ignores the damage reduction that melees and tanks are supposed to have in that mode, if you're under 50% HP you are dead. Meanwhile LBs from Summoner, Dragoon, Redmage, etc are all still affected by the 60% damage reduction that tanks and melees have. don't forget you can also guard dragoon's lb this with all the Dmg Reuction it'll do next to no damage

tbh if entire gc side has nothing but tank,melee, and 2 healers in a 24(note max you can have in GC side in a 72) Its pretty much game over if they are hive mind it. Also most high kills are melee in every FL or about 90% in the top 10.

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Originally Posted by Latarma

Add ninja to the list of jobs that are completely unbalanced in frontlines since it completely ignores the damage reduction that melees and tanks are supposed to have in that mode, if you're under 50% HP you are dead. Meanwhile LBs from Summoner, Dragoon, Redmage, etc are all still affected by the 60% damage reduction that tanks and melees have. don't forget you can also guard dragoon's lb this with all the Dmg Reuction it'll do next to no damage

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RDM became unplayable after the % def buff.

IIRC LB with max BH strikes 8.500 x2 = 17.000 hp, basically tickles.
MCH with medium BH deals 20k with drill+analisis alone.

Going caster in FL its just horrible in general.

BLM its decent because with LB he can start annoying people with ice.

Can't they just change it so it only proccs on single target skills? Or is that too hard for them to do?

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Originally Posted by Latarma

Add ninja to the list of jobs that are completely unbalanced in frontlines since it completely ignores the damage reduction that melees and tanks are supposed to have in that mode, if you're under 50% HP you are dead. Meanwhile LBs from Summoner, Dragoon, Redmage, etc are all still affected by the 60% damage reduction that tanks and melees have. don't forget you can also guard dragoon's lb this with all the Dmg Reuction it'll do next to no damage

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DRG doesn't need help honestly, but 60% DR, MCH Chainsaw, and NIN/SAMLBs are still awful for the health of FL overall.

DRG with a DRK to cluster will net you an incredible amount of impact, kills, damage, whatever. Like this is an average game on Seal Rock which is p much all I've been playing.

https://i.imgur.com/S5BG0vQ.png

Right now they should prob try something like 30-40% DR for melee, 10-20% for NIN alone due to how it's a pseudo-ranged, see how it affects the meta and brings back some ranged impact instead of them being fodder for melee. Being able to play any job and tank, and then escape, 6+ players if you have BH5 is ludicrous in any scenario too.

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Originally Posted by LifeupOmega

DRG doesn't need help honestly, but 60% DR, MCH Chainsaw, and NIN/SAMLBs are still awful for the health of FL overall.

DRG with a DRK to cluster will net you an incredible amount of impact, kills, damage, whatever. Like this is an average game on Seal Rock which is p much all I've been playing.

https://i.imgur.com/S5BG0vQ.png

Right now they should prob try something like 30-40% DR for melee, 10-20% for NIN alone due to how it's a pseudo-ranged, see how it affects the meta and brings back some ranged impact instead of them being fodder for melee. Being able to play any job and tank, and then escape, 6+ players if you have BH5 is ludicrous in any scenario too.

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this was me with a GNB LB the other day, i got like a quadra kill with it XD

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Originally Posted by Towa-Musa

Dude shut up, you are just as bad as ransu when it comes to disagreeing with people. **hur dur** you're bad because of *insert stupid reason here*

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Oh Im sorry was this suppose to mean something
I had left this chat weeks ago why are you talking to me now
Then insult me bravo we devolve quickly if we get emotionally charged from this
If you want to continue this state your argument

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Originally Posted by Vatom

Oh Im sorry was this suppose to mean something
I had left this chat weeks ago why are you talking to me now
Then insult me bravo we devolve quickly if we get emotionally charged from this
If you want to continue this state your argument

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Pot calling the kettle black.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...2073/image.png

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Originally Posted by Nikoto

Pot calling the kettle black.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...2073/image.png

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Oh were doing this now, I got one lol
I'm rubber, you're glue, whatever you say bounce off me and sticks to you.

I see the bad pvpers are still complaining.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

I see the bad pvpers are still complaining.

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How's that mathematically impossible soloing of melee jobs on brd going?

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Originally Posted by LifeupOmega

DRG doesn't need help honestly, but 60% DR, MCH Chainsaw, and NIN/SAMLBs are still awful for the health of FL overall.

DRG with a DRK to cluster will net you an incredible amount of impact, kills, damage, whatever. Like this is an average game on Seal Rock which is p much all I've been playing.

https://i.imgur.com/S5BG0vQ.png

Right now they should prob try something like 30-40% DR for melee, 10-20% for NIN alone due to how it's a pseudo-ranged, see how it affects the meta and brings back some ranged impact instead of them being fodder for melee. Being able to play any job and tank, and then escape, 6+ players if you have BH5 is ludicrous in any scenario too.

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Honestly? I'd look at tweaking the timers for abilities next. Along with reducing melee/tank to 30% and NIN to half of that.

A shorter cooldown on Purify and/or Guard would make a substantial difference. I also think that Sprint needs to be changed from unlimited to a 30-50% uptime short cooldown - maybe like 8 sec duration with 20 sec cooldown. Unlimited sprint is a problem for melee characters, as unless you can chain CC's together, you can quite literally just run away from melee/caster attackers and there's surprisingly little you can do about it.

Unlimited sprint is fine in CC due to tiny maps, but it's kind of an issue in the larger environments of FL and RW.

Maybe perhaps re-modify the LB itself?

Can’t ask to request be taken something away in your favour & if that were the case then I have to differ otherwise to equally do so for your job or all jobs altogether.

PS: It can be countered; its all about situational awareness & timing your abilities & vice versa for your opponents…

I think it's probably a good idea to remove instant death mechanics from the game in general. Instant death mechanics in a game with low tickrate and spell batching is... not really ideal. Note that SAM, NIN, etc LB do not lack counterplay - it's just that the counterplay isn't terribly fun and it creates an unpleasant environment.

I'd suggest something like, SAM LB does 5k flat damage, increased by 100% against targets afflicted by Kuzushi; and it additionally applies a damage over time effect equal to the target's maximum HP with a 6 sec duration if they are afflicted by Kuzushi. This still has the same net effect of killing people who attacked into Chiten, but offers a few moments to react to it. Maybe pumping all four potions into it will prevent you from dying... but now you have no mana, still have very low health, and you *probably* can't elixir. But it's better than "server tick says you die." Because it's a dot, Guard won't help you.

For NIN, I think I'd just change it to like 15k flat damage plus an additional 10k if they are below half health, and all of the damage ignores Guard. You could then probably revert the LB nerfs, as a ~25k hit is less likely to directly kill someone, and thus they will instead need to rely more on getting the buff to chain it.

I don't know what to do about Chainsaw. Maybe just give it a nice dot? Or they could do something like, each target hit after the first takes additional damage up to 100% more damage?

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Originally Posted by Kansene

How's that mathematically impossible soloing of melee jobs on brd going?

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https://i.imgur.com/YF6KVo3.png

Just fine.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

https://i.imgur.com/YF6KVo3.png

Just fine.

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That's great!
I'd greatly appreciate pointers, seeing as I'm unable to replicate the required numbers even in ideal lab-perfect conditions. It's not outside the realms of possibility that I've gotten a modifier wrong or misunderstood how things stack.

I'm very impressed with the unrelated screenie, those are insanely good stats, more than twice my personal best KB-wise.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

https://i.imgur.com/YF6KVo3.png

Just fine.

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That doesn't answer the question though, just showing of a high kill count with the other 2 teams being not even close to the winner even. For all i can see, it was a breeze stomping.

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Originally Posted by Latarma

Add ninja to the list of jobs that are completely unbalanced in frontlines since it completely ignores the damage reduction that melees and tanks are supposed to have in that mode, if you're under 50% HP you are dead. Meanwhile LBs from Summoner, Dragoon, Redmage, etc are all still affected by the 60% damage reduction that tanks and melees have. don't forget you can also guard dragoon's lb this with all the Dmg Reuction it'll do next to no damage

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It doesn't just ignore the 60% DR, it also benefits itself from the 60%, making it both incredibly tanky and annoying but also more lethal than every other melee.

It just occurred to me that if I use Horrid Roar and get Kuzushi because of it, I will still take 100% damage even though targets inflicted with Horrid Roar should deal 50% less damage to me. It's a contradiction.

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Originally Posted by Blinding_Awesomeness

It just occurred to me that if I use Horrid Roar and get Kuzushi because of it, I will still take 100% damage even though targets inflicted with Horrid Roar should deal 50% less damage to me. It's a contradiction.

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Japanese class privledge, silence silly lancer!

私は武士であり、愚かな装甲騎士の男を破壊するために私のエピック限界突破を使用します

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Originally Posted by Nikoto

Japanese class privledge, silence silly lancer!

私は武士であり、愚かな装甲騎士の男を破壊するために私のエピック限界突破を使用します

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(^ワ^＝) While I was playing with sticks, SAMs studied the blade.

'Yoshi didn't make all jobs equal, but Zantetsuken did.'

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Originally Posted by Naizakane

Pretty sure the solution was figured out 5 months ago, when people realised you could just not hit the samurai during chiten.

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Not surprising that stupid answer like this is coming from SAM main...

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Originally Posted by Silhart

but I will say if they turned Zantetsuken into straight damage, I think that would be a huge buff over what we have now. Hear me out - depending on how much they increased its damage to make up for the loss of its OHKO, they would essentially be turning it into a second Skyshatter Dive that has the advantage of being both untelegraphed and unblockable. Under the right conditions (see: a DRK who knows what they're doing), team wipes with Zantetsuken would be more frequent, and I think that would make people complain even more than they do now. It would essentially go from being a punishing LB with reasonable counterplay to a teamwipe LB with zero counterplay. I've seen people suggest this change before, and all I can say is they should be careful what they wish for.

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You are saying it like this is the only way how to change this... from bad to even worse...

Just don't hit the Samurai with Chiten?
God, would the community stop trying to make the PvP soulless and unfun? Already nerfed casters and Paladin to the ground.

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Originally Posted by Yukimin

Just don't hit the Samurai with Chiten?
God, would the community stop trying to make the PvP soulless and unfun? Already nerfed casters and Paladin to the ground.

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The only limit break I want nerfed is ninjas resetting instakill if you are below 50%. That is obnoxious as heck. No real skill involved in it either other than "wait" Least thats how it seems to me.

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Originally Posted by Yukimin

Just don't hit the Samurai with Chiten?
God, would the community stop trying to make the PvP soulless and unfun? Already nerfed casters and Paladin to the ground.

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I think the issue is more that most people aren't targeting the Samurai, but the samurai is being clipped by an AOE.

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Originally Posted by Yukimin

Just don't hit the Samurai with Chiten?
God, would the community stop trying to make the PvP soulless and unfun? Already nerfed casters and Paladin to the ground.

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Tell that my RDM nerf after nerf after nerf... >_>

They could have base Zantetsuken do 30k. Zantetsuken with chiten debuff do 60k with 30k up front, and another 30k bleed over 4 seconds. (15k per tick)

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Originally Posted by Nikoto

I think the issue is more that most people aren't targeting the Samurai, but the samurai is being clipped by an AOE.

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The problem is that you have to pair lb with a trash skill many people can avoid, sam lb needs a change both for cc and frontlines, its garbage

Rarely does a PvP system provide players with a guaranteed 1 button kill mechanic. When a mechanic like this exists, it always requires very specific conditions that usually require finesse to pull off reliably. Chiten is not that. At best, 1 v 1, Chiten could be seen as requiring finesse to trick an opponent into triggering Chiten for Kuzushi. Once a second combatant and AoEs get involved, all finesse disappears and it's as easy as simple standing near your opponent.

Further discussion of a 1 button kill mechanic usually leads to the expectation that if it fails to connect, it's has a greatly diminished effect. For example, looking to the closest analogy in FFXIV, a NIN's Seiton Tenchu does a miserable 10k dmg and is affected by guard, if it fails to hit someone below 50% health, while making the NIN vulnerable for 2 - 3 seconds. Suitable punishment for missing your kill opportunity. Zantetsuken hits for 24k, ignores guard, and is an AoE... if it fails to kill outright.

Which leads to the final point, I have NEVER seen a PvP system provide a 1 button kill mechanic that is an AoE. I don't even have an avenue to discuss this point.

Please, either remove the 1 button kill mechanic and simply increase the dmg when hitting someone with Kuzushi, or remove the AoE component of it, or remove the ability to trigger Kuzushi through AoE abilities. Any one of those changes would maintain a strong LB while getting rid of the detrimental impact SAM LB has on PvP.

Before I go, I'll leave a brief conversation I had with my friend who plays SAM that greatly illustrates the point. My friend was teaching me to play SAM and while covering the LB, this is what he said... roughly. He said, "When using Zantetsuken, make sure you hit as many players as you can. Like, if you only get one kill, you should feel like you've wasted the LB. Maximize the effect by drawing in tanks and AoE casters before triggering Chiten. Just get up close, trigger Purify, and get hit with everything you can by getting right in a teams face. If you do it right, you should be able to get 2, 3, or more kills."

That was when I realized how silly Zantetsuken is. There isn't a combo you need to perform. There isn't teamwork that's required. There isn't an intricate dance you perform to pull it off. It's simply kick in the door and see how many players twitch. The only defense is to not fight back while the Samurai is attacking your team, which is even more powerful than the LB itself. The ability to threaten an entire team by just standing in combat... reducing their DPS in anticipation of your activation of Chiten, stopping their AoEs, and unbalancing their rotations.

The FEAR that a SAM will trigger Chiten, giving you Kuzushi, and then killing everyone that receives the debuff, makes Zantetsuken even MORE powerful than a 1 button AoE kill. In the right hands, this one class controls PvP.