Poor Savage reward system

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaliesto

Get a life, how about stop being rude?

---

Not being rude at all, addressing your inability to handle dissension isn't rude. Also

https://game.watch.impress.co.jp/doc...e/1357797.html

From the mouth of Yoshida himself. Have a nice day

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FireMage

Not being rude at all, addressing your inability to handle dissension isn't rude. Also

https://game.watch.impress.co.jp/doc...e/1357797.html

From the mouth of Yoshida himself. Have a nice day

---

No you said whining which is effectively a rude word, I would not have minded your comment if you didn't come off that way.

I'll let it go if you didn't mean to be as such, but consider your text next time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaliesto

No you said whining which is effectively a rude word, I would not have minded your comment if you didn't come off that way.

---

Addressing what you're doing is not rude either

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FireMage

Addressing what you're doing is not rude either

---

So I should be sorry for going against the savage system? You know you don't have to agree with me, I expressed how I felt about it and that was that.

Lets move pass this already.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaliesto

So I should be sorry for going against the savage system? You know you don't have to agree with me, I expressed how I felt about it and that was that.

Lets move pass this already.

---

The whinging part. And also not having the correct info

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FireMage

The whinging part. And also not having the correct info

---

Respectfully I didn't come into the topic looking for a fight, but as soon I was memed that is when it stopped being civil. Tbh I don't like topics like this because it does cause people to bicker in here, and forget why we're talking about it.

I'll take a look at the link you provided.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaliesto

Respectfully I didn't come into the topic looking for a fight, but as soon I was memed that is when it stopped being civil. Tbh I don't like topics like this because it does cause people to bicker in here, and forget why we're talking about it.

I'll take a look at the link you provided.

---

You literally bumped the topic because you wanted a fight. Don't front

Or I don't like being put down when it was uncalled for, I'm not sitting back and taking it.

Again your words "Don't Front".

Now you're just trying to provoke.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaliesto

Or I don't like being put down when it was uncalled for, I'm not sitting back and taking it.

Again your words "Don't Front".

Now you're just trying to provoke.

---

If addressing facts leaves you feeling provoked you are the one in the wrong. Again, YOU bumped the topic to try and get at someone. Now that I've educated you on that matter and that Savage numbers are higher than your claim, what else is left?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FireMage

If addressing facts leaves you feeling provoked you are the one in the wrong. Again, YOU bumped the topic to try and get at someone. Now that I've educated you on that matter and that Savage numbers are higher than your claim, what else is left?

---

You don't have facts what you can't know behind a text since you want to warp this so much, I made a observation from my personal experience (that was not whining as you keep stating it is), someone didn't like what I said and tried to meme and memed back, and we could have been more polite in retrospect, and so I tried to defuse it without being snappy at said person about it when I got that one other text.

Then you come in, and started causing problems by being abrasive facts or not, and never it had to go that way.

Far as I'm concerned you were looking for trouble.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaliesto

You don't have facts what you can't know behind a text, I made a observation from my personal experience, someone didn't like what I said and tried to meme and memed back, and we could have been more polite in retrospect, and so I tried to defuse it without being snappy at said person about it with the next.

Then you come in, and started causing problems by being abrasive facts or not, and never it had to go that way.

Far as I'm concerned you were looking for trouble.

---

Facts are never abrasive. Again if you see a factual statement and take offense, that is on you. And again, the one looking for trouble was you given you bumped the topic after over 24 hour of inactivity to fight with someone

Dude, I was here only to defuse that situation.

I don't mind your facts, but yet you were abrasive (just be polite next time).

You came in and made it worse, end of story.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaliesto

Dude, I was here only to defuse that situation.

You came in and made it worse, end of story.

---

The situation was defused. Note the whole no one posting for over day. YOU lit it back up by bumping the topic. And then by trying to come for me for addressing facts

No, you're misunderstanding my posts.

I don't mind what you have to say and what facts you provided, but you came off as abrasive, and used choice words that didn't need to be said.

How else did you expect to me respond? I don't want to continue this, please lets move pass this already.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaliesto

No, you're misunderstanding my posts.

---

I understand them just fine, including you bumping a topic after a day to fight with someone

savage loot and token system and also mechanics in the fights are prone to assume people is in static. raiding is never PF friendly. Even in static, people always prioritize give the gear piece to DPS. So kind of not fair on the both end.

I mentioned this before but to specify more specifically, this is what I'd consider:

1. At week 1, we get the new tomestone tier at a cap of 450 which stays this way on week 2. From week 3 to week 12, the cap increases by 75 each week, capping at 1200. During the next odd patch (i.e. X.1, X.3, X.5), the cap is removed.

2. Raid accessories stay costing 4 books and all raid armor and the raid weapon cost 6 books. Each time you purchase raid gear with books, the cost of all gear of that book type decreases by 2 until the cost becomes 2.

Tier 1/5/9 Books: First purchase costs 4 books / All other purchases costs 2 books.
Tier 2/6/10 Books: First purchase costs 6 books / Second purchase costs 4 books / All other purchase costs 2 books.
Tier 3/7/11 Books: First purchase costs 6 books / Second purchase costs 4 books / All other purchase costs 2 books.
Tier 4/8/12 Books: First purchase costs 6 books / Second purchase costs 4 books / All other purchase costs 2 books.

This keeps raid gear restricted at first but eases up as time passes, allowing you more flexibility in gearing up additional jobs.

Why don't you try making friends?
If you're so insufferable that nobody wants to put up with you long enough to raid in a static with you, frankly, that's a (social) skill issue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stasya

Dont bother, its just a se whiteknight. For him you can play any class in any content because savage not existing for him.

---

Bold statement considering I raid on 4 characters a week. I probably had close to 300 savage kills last tier, and I quit raiding before they remove the loot lockout. I cleared P7S on 3/4 of my character on week 2. But everyone are born politician these days so I guess calling and labeling everyone who disagree are second natural for most. You probably don't know there were a time people can realize others just have ... different opinion then them without any 2nd string attached. But then I can't blame you if the current behavior is shaped by the only social norm you know of. Sometime I miss the 20th century.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deo14

How many of them are KMMORPGs and 12+ years old games with outdated garbage systems? Even then, you have 19 jobs on your character here, yet the system seems to be build upon maining single job, with weird clusterfuck of gear sharing and strict weapon limitations.

---

I see you have great debate strategy, preemptive limit your opponent by eliminating like 80-90% of MMO on the market? Yeah I play some KMMO, but none last me for more than 2-3 months 'cause their shallowness bore me. I also used to play a lot, if not most western popular Western MMO, all the way back to Ever-quest. Yeah they're old, but neither FF14 is a spring chicken.

Also like I said above, I play on 4 chars. They already give you a bunch of advantage with it. Maybe because I'm more keenly aware of the pain of re-rolling new characters that I don't take the benefit of the 1 character system for granted. Just because it doesn't offer you the benefit in one area that you want (gearing), it doesn't mean all the other things it offered don't exist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Martynek

Why don't you try making friends?
If you're so insufferable that nobody wants to put up with you long enough to raid in a static with you, frankly, that's a (social) skill issue.

---

Why do you think it's friends and not being able to commit to a scheduled time commitment? It's not hard at all to make friends even for the more abrasive among us.
The problem is committing to a regular schedule and 7 people being angry at you if you have a family emergency or are called into your job unexpectedly. Committing to 1-3 hours of PFs is way easier than committing to a schedule 8 weeks in advance.

I always found it annoying that we can play multiple jobs but we can only really gear 1 job. I want to play more than one, I like the variety but I cannot gear them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

I always found it annoying that we can play multiple jobs but we can only really gear 1 job. I want to play more than one, I like the variety but I cannot gear them.

---

News to me having multiple BiS Jobs before 6.2

It's most likely part of their business model. The result is to make the content last longer and keep people subscribed that engage in the content. Similar to how old school mmos would make drops rates from content(notorious monsters) be super low. I agree that it's not optimal.

You mean you don't like being a healer this tier?

Every fight being a hard heal check, yet your still last priority on gear?

3 weeks in and 0 loot feels great wym.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Why do you think it's friends and not being able to commit to a scheduled time commitment? It's not hard at all to make friends even for the more abrasive among us.
The problem is committing to a regular schedule and 7 people being angry at you if you have a family emergency or are called into your job unexpectedly. Committing to 1-3 hours of PFs is way easier than committing to a schedule 8 weeks in advance.

---

if your static are angry at you over emergency's then they really aren't your friends.

Every single ultimate, savage and extreme fight in the game is doable in a pug.
That is not an overstatement, it is a fact.

If your server/World cluster aren't skilled enough for it, Move to another that has a more raid focused environment.

Just made my 10th clear, X4 each 5S and 6S, and X2 7S, so far only got 1 piece of gear and no upgrade mats. And there were people in the parties I was in talking about trying to gear up their alts, when I and others can't even get halfway done with their primarys? Just...... beyond stupid. Sometimes I wonder why I even bother anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FireMage

News to me having multiple BiS Jobs before 6.2

---

Not really relevant to the topic of this conversation.

BiS-ing "multiple" jobs over 8 months isn't much of an accomplishment. The issue is that this game's archaic lockout system effectively restricts you to one job/role for months at the start of a savage tier, unless you want to artificially gimp your performance by splitting loot. Up until this week's reclears, I only got a single loot drop in 3 weeks of clears, and it wasn't even BiS on my job. I know a dude that is still in only tome/crafted gear w/o upgrades 4 weeks in who just can't roll high to save his life, and now has exactly *one* BiS piece a month after drop due to books.

The system is punishing, slow, and in desperate need of a tune-up. Gearing, especially through PF, for the first couple months has always been CBT and frankly needs addressing.

i believe a lot of people are complain about this issue.
I want to add my case.
I started savage raiding since week 1, but cleared p7s in week 1, and p8s in week 4. But guess what... my main is still ilvl 619 in week 7 after my reclear
And today, when I was waiting in party finder, someone told the leader to open both range/melee, and he said he got both to ilvl 625...., and he cleared p5s in week 3.
And, this week, I saw so many PF start gating people with 620....
SE... really?!! can you please fix this ? this loot system is really big issue for PFer

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moeru_Kitsune

I'm sure this is a topic that has been discussed multiple times, but the reward system for Savage raids is, in my opinion, badly set up. You only get a max of two chests with one piece of gear each, plus any additional materials, for eight people to fight over, and even if you don't get anything, it still counts as a reward received for the week? There are lots of players, myself included, that normally get low rolls on gear drops, and so we are forced to wait until the following week. The one book a week, I understand, but everyone should get a piece of gear as well. It should be set up like it is in Normal mode, where eight pieces of random gear appear, and then the group rolls on all of it, only able to get one piece. This current setup is a big mistake.

---

We just need something like :

4 books for a weap or chest
2 books for pants / helmet / feets / gloves
1 book for accessories
1 book for upgrades

I still think the solution is as I mentioned earlier in this thread: Gear can stay restriction early on, but as weeks go by, I think the tomestone limit should increase, and book costs can go down the more you purchase to make it so that gearing the first time has a steeper entry, but catching up in your gear becomes much faster the closer you get to the next patch.

You shouldn't loose your previous chests if you decide to enter in a higher tier of said raid and clear 3rd or 4th boss before the early ones.

I never got either the need to reduce the number of chests to 1 if one or more player has already cleared the boss, ever since it was introduced, wouldn't it be just similar to 2 / 3 people coming in and passing on the 2 chest for their friends anyway as they can't loot a 2nd time ? Why penalizing the greater number when the penalty is already to not being able to loot ? Or make a system as if the 2 / 3 people had a "fake" random generated roll on these chests/ items, but allow for the 2 chests to be there, even if dummy rolls are generated for the players that cleared.

Make it so chests are only "locked" on disciplines / jobs, when u switch roles, make the 2 chests available again for a dps, tank, or heal role you switch on, while removing them for other trinity roles u already cleared with. Or at least allow for getting a book after a reclear on theses. It also means that you have new chests locked for dps, heal, and tank jobs / roles with a padlock icon with a sword on it, a + heal on it, or a shield for tank on them, making it clear what roles they are for (when you looted / cleared the raid with that specific Trinity class (tank/heal or dps) )

Number of tomes for accessories is ridiculous, and chest / weapons are in the same ballpark. move numbers of tomes for accessories to 2, an chest / weapons to 6, plus, if you decide to move the savage raid launch one week later, u could make some compromises on how loot distribution is handled as stated above.

I'll take anything at this point tbh. This is what, week 8? of no accessories and no upgrade items, god I love having to buy everything with books.

This is beating a dead horse at this point but the savage loot system is atrocious in party finder.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Absurdity

I'll take anything at this point tbh. This is what, week 8? of no accessories and no upgrade items, god I love having to buy everything with books.

This is beating a dead horse at this point but the savage loot system is atrocious in party finder.

---

It's like it's designed for statics or something

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Packetdancer

I will almost guarantee you the reason it's set up this way is to prevent people cheesing gear drops. Yes, it feels terrible in party finder when you lose that roll and, whup, nothing for you this week... but the alternative basically would make statics wildly overpowered.

If, for instance, you could go in as many times as you wanted and roll on things until you won something, then you would absolutely have a group where they go "okay, we'll run the first fight, everyone pass on the gear and let <X> win everything." Then they'd run it again, and everyone would pass and let <Y> win everything. And then they'd run it again and everyone would pass and let <Z> win everything, and so on, until everyone had gotten the absolute maximum amount of gear possible from every fight in the tier.

---

This would not work under any circumstance in the idea posed by the guy you're replying to. You'd be guaranteed one drop a week in his idea still. Everyone would. No one would have to wait. You imagined yourself an idea that is obviously a bad idea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ty_taurus

I still think the solution is as I mentioned earlier in this thread: Gear can stay restriction early on, but as weeks go by, I think the tomestone limit should increase, and book costs can go down the more you purchase to make it so that gearing the first time has a steeper entry, but catching up in your gear becomes much faster the closer you get to the next patch.

---

Can even tie the reduction in books to a temporary Key Item (think of it as like a half off coupon* valid for the week you earned it, but only have these temp KI coupons start dropping on week 8/9 or however long after the race/tier being relevant) you obtain from doing the fights for that week since I'm sure one of the issues the Devs want to avoid is people just hoarding their books for a hypothetical .5 patch reduction in book costs**.

* Obviously the coupon wont be valid for weapons but for the smaller items like accessories and hands/head/feet slots. Can even have these eventually opened up to be applied to weapons once the tier is obsoleted by the next tier/next x.0 launch whichever is sooner.
** This will insure that the drops from the first 8 weeks are actively being used and not hoarded so that the overall potential gear level increases of the DCs are being utilized.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FireMage

It's like it's designed for statics or something

---

Comparing it to the old loot system which simply dropped an item for a random job it is quite obvious that this system is designed for statics and for those it's great, nothing goes to waste. Doesn't make the PF experience any less awful when people in BiS gear roll need on everything for their 3rd alt job while you sit there in your ilvl 610 garbage and wonder how many more weeks you need to buy anything with pity tokens.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Absurdity

Comparing it to the old loot system which simply dropped an item for a random job it is quite obvious that this system is designed for statics and for those it's great, nothing goes to waste. Doesn't make the PF experience any less awful when people in BiS gear roll need on everything for their 3rd alt job while you sit there in your ilvl 610 garbage and wonder how many more weeks you need to buy anything with pity tokens.

---

Then stop PFing

Man, it's almost like the vast majority of raiders progress via PF instead of having a static or something. Funny how that works.

There really is no reason to keep the loot system so restrictive as far as the numbers of books needed goes, because the hardcore players are always going to get it done before the book loot is even a factor, so having the loot be more accessible just eases things for the less dedicated and/or skilled while also making it easier to get gear for alt jobs, which sounds like a win-win to me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FireMage

Then stop PFing

---

Would rather PF than deal with statics that disband at the slightest bit of drama/borrow people temporarily till their friends come back. It's like trying to find a unicorn + pretty demotivating when you bust your ass for people only to find out you were a placeholder the entire time. It boggles the mind how communicating that from the start is somehow an issue.

Only static I've successfully had last without drama is a past content min ilvl no echo group I'm in twice a week. Have yet to find one to last in current content though with people dipping out after a couple sessions or getting pissed at criticism.