When is PLD Getting Fixed So It Can Be a VIABLE Tank?

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Originally Posted by Alerith

Was there not currently an issue where Sentinel isn't affecting skills at the moment? Also, while I advocate for PLD tanking, having all 8 players in range for Rampart during a fight isn't always realistically possible.

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I also heard that thing about Sentinel being broken. i just do it atm cause i am used to doing so.
They will fix it i supose so i am staying used to using it like that. no reason to not use it at all.
Also you can always ALWAYS do rampart at the start of the battle. ALWAYS hit 8 players.
Not one fight u cant do that right after buffs.

I am just saying cause ur rotation does not start with that is all.
You dont need to do it in battle all the time. Starting with is is good tho.
Some battle allow u to do it in the middle aswell.

Ramparting:

Coincounter = When u see Swing in battle log run towards party to get him on his ass and rampart on them
(Plenty of time)

Garuda: Everytime she moves to the middle u can run to the pt hiding behind the pillar.
Will protect u from getting hit and u can rampart on them safely.

Chimera: Easy to start with.

Ifrit: Easy to start with. everyone runs behind Ifrit when battle starts. super safe.

Mogs: Easy to start with (the one tanking Whiskerwall in phase two should be the one to do it)

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Originally Posted by Alerith

While the timing allows that, you may not have TP to do both since you are doing this from the very start of the fight. That's why I don't Aegis Boon before I engage the mob. I want to be sure I have at least enough or close to enough TP for Phalanx.

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I don't do it right at the start of battle :)
I don't recall having a TP issue with my rotation.

Keep ur wardrum in mind. Phalanx's TP req is funny. not worth mentionning.

Also have ur BRDs do this.

When u all clustered after buffs they need to give Rigor song,
Dosent matter if it hits mages too.
What matters is u go to claim mob with ACC buffed cause if u run in and start missing then u will have a problem.

BRD can give mages Ballad after tank moves away with his ACC song on.

Everybody wins this way :)
Tank hass ACC
Mages have MP

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Originally Posted by Alerith

I must respectfully disagree.

1. Maddening Potion
2. Provoke
3. Aegis Boon
4. Phalanx
5. Spirit's Within
6. Flash
7. Divine Veil
8. War Drum
9. Provoke
10. Fast/Flat Blade Combo

*Rampart can be placed anywhere when your melee are in range and it won't potentially interrupt a combo.

EDIT:

This will allow your mages to start nuking from the get go. You still run the risk of ripping enmity off the tank, but as you said, it's up to the mages to determine whether it's safe to nuke or not. If you decide to Thundara while in the red, that's your bad, not the tanks.

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The reason Rampart is placed so early in my list is that if you use Rampart within range of the whole party, it amounts to a MASSIVE enmity boost. It's also the reason my list is so much shorter than yours.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

The reason Rampart is placed so early in my list is that if you use Rampart within range of the whole party, it amounts to a MASSIVE enmity boost. It's also the reason my list is so much shorter than yours.

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Molls, If u use Rampart and mob isnt aggroed yet u wont get hate at all.
First voke it then Rampart.

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Originally Posted by YuriSan

Maddening potion better after aggro. and also no Rampart before aggro. it only works after u get hate on mob.
Otherwise it's useless.

Also Sentinel always before voke and flash cause it amplifies hate skills.

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I agree you would have a second or two more of madding pot effect if you pop your pot after you grab hate. I always pop mine at the start though. Sentinal actually doesn't work on hate skills, it works on dmg, the skill part is mostly broken. It's Rampart that works with skills, which is why it's in my list where it is. I didn't realize that rampart would give a larger boost after hate is initially gained, but that makes sense given how it's cast.

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Originally Posted by YuriSan

Molls, If u use Rampart and mob isnt aggroed yet u wont get hate at all.
First voke it then Rampart.

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That's true, but it does boost hate gained from abilities done while it's effect is active.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

That's true, but it does boost hate gained from abilities done while it's effect is active.

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Wait...what? Since when? Ramparts effect simply states that it boosts defense and generates massive enmity. Nowhere does it say that it enhances enmity on other abilities while it's active.

In fact, Sentinel's text says that it does this and it STILL doesn't work exactly as written.

Some interesting insight on rotations so far guys!

Wasn't Sentinel confirmed to mainly have an effect onWS damage? In this case, you'd probably want to pop it before your first Aegis Boon/Spirits combo, hopefully following it up with War Drum and Divine Veil before the effect wears.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

Wait...what? Since when? Ramparts effect simply states that it boosts defense and generates massive enmity. Nowhere does it say that it enhances enmity on other abilities while it's active.

In fact, Sentinel's text says that it does this and it STILL doesn't work exactly as written.

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I know it's not in the description but I thought I had seen that in somebody's test results. My search for a source has been fruitless though, so I'm thinking I pulled that out of my ass. I'll go back to my corner now. :P

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Originally Posted by Arkine

1- Block rate is still laughable, unlike warrior's parry rate which happens often thanks to "nerfed" Rampage, it seems like my PLD only realizes that he has a shield when I use an ability.

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Have you tested blocking with a gridanian buckler, large amounts of dex and block rate?

I don't think block rate needs fixing, we just all decide to use big ass shields with alot more block than block rate.

However, when we can clock up to 60% dmg reduction using a kite shield or higher, it is more practical to force abilities for blocks for ultimate mitigation than block rate with less mitigation and that's where I feel there is some unbalancing.

LOL, /facepalm,

well , at least yall are using pld now, still... /facepalm (wish i still had fraps on my laptop)

Will say this tho, coincounter is a joke, glad I finally went out and did the damn thing, dont understand what the big deal is, even without running from 100 tonze what was the big deal? enless you stacked hp materia or somthing retarded like that, DH's orger is more challanging...

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Originally Posted by Aceofspades

LOL, /facepalm,

well , at least yall are using pld now, still... /facepalm (wish i still had fraps on my laptop)

Will say this tho, coincounter is a joke, glad I finally went out and did the damn thing, dont understand what the big deal is, even without running from 100 tonze what was the big deal? enless you stacked hp materia or somthing retarded like that, DH's orger is more challanging...

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We're having a serious discussion here.

Shoo.

This is what she says: Fix paladin
This is what my girlfriend says: You never listen to me!!!

This is what she really means: Marauder can tank better then paladin; it's not fair...
This is what my girlfriend really means: I don't want to listen to what you are saying; now you listen to me!!!


This is how you fix the problem; DPS needs to learn how to not zerg it from the start, that's how paladin are suppose to tank. Paladin survivability is higher then warrior- paladin can take better hits then warrior and recover more hp then paladin. Warrior are Damage dealers + Tanking machines- they aren't the best at taking hits and aren't the best at doing damage. Although warrior's are actually the job that suppose to take most hate.
Paladin's are just suppose to be able to take hit and recover hp.

This is how se want's warrior to play, stand next to blackmage and collusion them while in battle, share the hate won't let the paladin lose hate.
This is how she wants to play ---> Paladin = Current Warrior.
Then this would make no sense to have a tank ;)

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Originally Posted by Aceofspades

LOL, /facepalm,

well , at least yall are using pld now, still... /facepalm (wish i still had fraps on my laptop)

Will say this tho, coincounter is a joke, glad I finally went out and did the damn thing, dont understand what the big deal is, even without running from 100 tonze what was the big deal? enless you stacked hp materia or somthing retarded like that, DH's orger is more challanging...

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http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Pic...825_701021.jpg

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Originally Posted by Gukie

This is how you fix the problem; DPS needs to learn how to not zerg it from the start, that's how paladin are suppose to tank.

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If your tank isn't pants on head retarded this shouldn't even be an issue.

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Originally Posted by Crysten

If your tank isn't pants on head retarded this shouldn't even be an issue.

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I agree. I don't know what you guys think, but I believe Paladin generates more emnity than Warrior now, so zerging shouldn't be an issue.

Keeping hate of 4 flaring BLMs as of 1.22a is difficult on both classes and Cover is the ultimate life saver for that anyway.

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Originally Posted by Crysten

You seem to have it in your head that DPS is the only way to generate enmity, or at least, that's what your overall stance tells me. The common thought is that "PLD can't DPS, therefore it can't be a tank." The correct answer is "PLD can generate more than enough enmity through it's actions that DDs don't have to hold back and have enough survivability in a lot of situations to allow an extra DPS over a second WHM."

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It's more along the lines of "tanks generate threat/aggro/hate through DPS. Abilities supplement that unless the design focuses on ability spam." Between cooldowns and how TP works, PLD abilities lean more to the former than the latter. That's why PLDs in XI had to eventually rely on cure cheat macros to generate aggro, as the design pointed in one direction but gameplay took the job down another. It is also why emphasis by players was in DPS gear with stats like accuracy and +attack (up until -PDT was thrown around like candy, anyways).

And I am staunchly against the whole "let's not invite another healer because we have a PLD in group". Firstly because that will bork encounter design and balance down the road, and make it more difficult on the developer's end when they have to design damage output, mechanics and abilities on multiple party set ups that play very differently. Secondly, it hints groups will start expecting the PLD to pick up the slack, and as I've been mentioning here for a while, if I'm on PLD I'm there to tank, not to do part of the healer's job.

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They're two distinct tanking styles right now. A WAR's tanking style is based more around generating enmity through it's own (and with Collusion, other's) damage at the cost of less defensive power. A PLD has a much higher enmity ceiling and more survivability post 1.22a but at the cost of less overall DPS from itself.

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This is dangerously close to niche tanking. You already know how I feel about that, so I'll not repeat myself.

I believe the current issue lies more within the current content design. PLD can tank most things just fine, but when the content is based around speed running / zerging then warriors tend to have the upper hand because they can do dps, and they can do aoe dps. I'm not saying fighting multiple mobs at once isn't a good design decision, but when all the content is designed around large hordes of enemies which are ran past half the time then the pld can't really shine.

If SE were to get their head out of their asses and start making content which wasn't stupid and boring, (Seriously? Running through a dungeon killing only a select few mobs is terrible content design) then maybe the community would find more uses for pld's.

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Originally Posted by ReviiLagoon

I believe the current issue lies more within the current content design. PLD can tank most things just fine, but when the content is based around speed running / zerging then warriors tend to have the upper hand because they can do dps, and they can do aoe dps. I'm not saying fighting multiple mobs at once isn't a good design decision, but when all the content is designed around large hordes of enemies which are ran past half the time then the pld can't really shine.

If SE were to get their head out of their asses and start making content which wasn't stupid and boring, (Seriously? Running through a dungeon killing only a select few mobs is terrible content design) then maybe the community would find more uses for pld's.

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That only solves part of the problem. Knowing the FFXI effect that trickles into this game, what would then happen is people would still use WAR because with WAR those dungeon runs are still being done faster than with PLD. This would be the case so long as there's a tangible reward for speeding through the content, causing this trend to be encouraged by the content.

Of course, removing tangible rewards for speeding through content wouldn't really solve anything on its own, because the trend then becomes entirely player-driven for the sake of efficiency. This is why changes to the jobs themselves would be in order to destroy the trend once and for all.

The problem isn't how we can fix Paladin. Because on a technical scale, the job is perfectly fine and can tank just fine.

Here is the problem however. Why would you pick a PLD when a WAR can do double the amount for half the effort? The way content is right now, WAR is the best, it is hard to argue against. PLD may be viable, but it isn't better than WAR right now in dungeons.

The problem isn't PLD itself, it is properly balancing it with WAR so both are wanted in dungeons. Not one more than the other. I just hope in 2.0, the new server structure caters more to skilled/geared players than stacking the safe jobs. Make it so you can't just stack BLM's. Make it so a BLM setup is doable, but harder than a normal setup, that kind of thing.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Why would you pick a PLD when a WAR can do double the amount for half the effort?

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Gonna have to stop you right here. How in Altana's name do you get the idea that WAR does double the damage? From what I've heard, some people's PLDs even outdamage WARs on Chimera....

This whole thing is getting ridiculous. I'm really starting to wonder what the age/mentality of most PLDS are. You guys are one step from going full retard.

It seems like most of you will only be happy when PLD takes 0 damage from every attack and can solo Chimera/Miser.

After this last patch PLD can do fine. If you can't handle it you're gimp and should quit the game. If you find yourselves having trouble, level warrior to 50. It should take you about 2 days. I have both and use both. The best part is most of the gear is cross-compatible.

Stop with the goddamn bellyaching you idiots. I can see why most people who played PLD in WoW and FFXI had such a bad name.

TLDR: Grow up, stop complaining and learn to play properly. Communicate with your teammates and gear yourself accordingly. Don't be gimp.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

The problem isn't PLD itself, it is properly balancing it with WAR so both are wanted in dungeons. Not one more than the other. I just hope in 2.0, the new server structure caters more to skilled/geared players than stacking the safe jobs. Make it so you can't just stack BLM's. Make it so a BLM setup is doable, but harder than a normal setup, that kind of thing.

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This won't happen unless there's changes in how the classes and jobs currently play. Other games have versatility in terms of buffs so that even though damage and performance are similar, you still are encouraged to bring varied comps because of what buffs and debuffs each class brings. If you have three caster DPS classes and they all do near equivalent damage, you're encouraged to bring one of each if one gives a +critical hit rating aura, the other increases all spell damage taken by the boss and the other one has a cooldown that notably increases the effectiveness of the whole group during burn phases. That's one way of encouraging people to bring more than one class.

Tanks are different because the priority is really survivability and their ability to hold the mob's attention. DPS only rears its head when you have notable damage discrepancies between one and the other...like discrepancies created by abilities assigned and base weapon damage.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

The problem isn't how we can fix Paladin. Because on a technical scale, the job is perfectly fine and can tank just fine.

Here is the problem however. Why would you pick a PLD when a WAR can do double the amount for half the effort? The way content is right now, WAR is the best, it is hard to argue against. PLD may be viable, but it isn't better than WAR right now in dungeons.

The problem isn't PLD itself, it is properly balancing it with WAR so both are wanted in dungeons. Not one more than the other. I just hope in 2.0, the new server structure caters more to skilled/geared players than stacking the safe jobs. Make it so you can't just stack BLM's. Make it so a BLM setup is doable, but harder than a normal setup, that kind of thing.

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Since nerf, instead of having a nerfed cyclone with antagonize "trying" to hold hate on multiple mobs against flaring blms, you can just cover the blms instead.

I mean the cyclone damage isn't even needed because the flares kill anyway. So instead of adding to a lost cause and having your BLMs get their ass whipped and have copious heals drained on them, have a PLD use cover on the BLM with most hate until the mobs are dead.

This is not hard to do and more practical than a WAR adding unneccessary damage.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

Gonna have to stop you right here. How in Altana's name do you get the idea that WAR does double the damage? From what I've heard, some people's PLDs even outdamage WARs on Chimera....

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Before I go on, I don't necessarily disagree with you.

I said double the amount in party situations, not damage. That means not only can they tank, they are a viable DPS also. On Chimera, I would guess the PLD was able to get more damage was because 2/3 of their powerful combos can hit him in the front. WAR however have to move to the sides and behind to perform more combos. If the WAR wanted to, he could easily out damage the PLD, but would risk the safety of the party. You can say PLD is in a more convenient position on Chimera than a WAR, but you can't say PLD is the better DPS.

Now here is the problem, because of speed runs in particular. Why would you pick PLD for anything when WAR can do just as good as they can, and have DPS on their side also? Now if SE made non-timed fights which required strategy and a tank that can last in the long run, then yes I would look upon PLD.

So can we all agree that speed run content damages not only the quality of the dungeons, but also job balance?

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Originally Posted by Velhart

You can say PLD is in a more convenient position on Chimera than a WAR, but you can't say PLD is the better DPS

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Literally, 79 damage crit with cyclone on Chimera. 3xx Damage with Godsbane.

PLD: Riot Blade 3xx damage, spirits within: 4xx damage, Goring Blade: 3xx

I dunno, when i did this, it looked like Paladin had the better dps.

Godsbane is not an unsafe combo to use at all, so that doesn't count and both jobs have one behind combo each.

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Originally Posted by Darkillumina

It seems like most of you will only be happy when PLD takes 0 damage from every attack and can solo Chimera/Miser..

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I solo'd half of Coin Counter already if that counts :p That's my way of saying PLD is fine!

My fullgeared DPS WAR does 30-40% (on Misser/Coin respectively) more than my fully tank gear PLD. No, my WAR wasn't holding back because of position, i literally spam everything and eat DPS food. PLD is definitely a winner in Chimera however.

I believe this patch has made both jobs acceptable, both are in about the same level, not one is better than another, both has pro and cons, there is no big difference when it times to clearing dungeons speed.

Although, i really want to see what a fully DPS geared PLD can do. Time to work on triple MND headgear, maybe i will get really close to my WAR's DPS.

LOL!!

It's just hopeless.

I wish i also had my fraps still......................

Only way for peeps to just stfu already about WAR tanking.

Trying to convince a linkshell's "main" tank who keeps hearing how awesome his tanking is
by his (tank ignorant) friends that his tanking aint so good is like
trying to bring down the Hulk with your bare fists.

Guys please keep posting ur tanking roation, it's the only way to actually get to the root of the problem if you find one while tanking on PLD...

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

My fullgeared DPS WAR does 30-40% (on Misser/Coin respectively) more than my fully tank gear PLD. No, my WAR wasn't holding back because of position, i literally spam everything and eat DPS food. PLD is definitely a winner in Chimera however.

I believe this patch has made both jobs acceptable, both are in about the same level, not one is better than another, both has pro and cons, there is no big difference when it times to clearing dungeons speed.

Although, i really want to see what a fully DPS geared PLD can do. Time to work on triple MND headgear, maybe i will get really close to my WAR's DPS.

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I wonder if this principal works on other "tank" bosses like Ifrit aswell?

Also, I been looking into the whole dps thing too. Maybe 350 STR 310 MND?

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Fury

I wonder if this principal works on other "tank" bosses like Ifrit aswell?

Also, I been looking into the whole dps thing too. Maybe 350 STR 310 MND?

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What principal? If you mean DPS wise, PLD would be better or around same DPS wise for Ifrit because he have around the same defense as Chimera.

Yes it is 350STR 310MND for Ifrit's Blade, nobody has established the cap for Garuda's Gaze however. But, it is deifnitely higher.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

The problem isn't how we can fix Paladin. Because on a technical scale, the job is perfectly fine and can tank just fine.

Here is the problem however. Why would you pick a PLD when a WAR can do double the amount for half the effort? The way content is right now, WAR is the best, it is hard to argue against. PLD may be viable, but it isn't better than WAR right now in dungeons.

The problem isn't PLD itself, it is properly balancing it with WAR so both are wanted in dungeons. Not one more than the other. I just hope in 2.0, the new server structure caters more to skilled/geared players than stacking the safe jobs. Make it so you can't just stack BLM's. Make it so a BLM setup is doable, but harder than a normal setup, that kind of thing.

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I laughed so hard at this reply i generated a shockwave with my laughter.

Dude you are terribly missinformed.
I blame you and people like you for all the PLD Vs WAR tank threads i ever seen in these forums.

The answer may be something simple that's been going on for a long time.

Back when I was but a lowly level 12 Warrior in Valkurm Dunes, I was just then learning how to effectively tank. My thought was, if it's looking at me, great. If it runs to an ally, then I provoke.

I had no concept of accumulating enmity to KEEP it's attention on me. Eventually, I grew out of the bad habits and started making with the good.

We could see a similar issue here where people don't maintain their enmity, and these are the ones crying against PLD. After the initial rotation, people get complacent or lazy and fail to maintain their hate, allowing it to be ripped away. Hell, even I've lost hate on something as simple as Ifrit because of complacency.

I love PLD now, yeah always less damage of WAR, sure but i'll use always from patch! (except for Ant in CC because my soft-event pt don't do dps for kill Guard then PLD -> WAR for tanking ^^ )
but for the other PLD is better (also for speed run)

In Dungeons not the tank make the difference in SR (speed run) or SR (slow run XD)... then i use PLD because is funnier than the WAR (tank)


An Life's Example ^^
Yesterday:
2 Runs of Cutter's Cry (soft party)
First: Chimera with me WAR tank -> nothing hate problem ; damage .... :rolleyes: ..... problem for the healer: much.
Second: Chimera with me PLD tank -> nothing hate problem ; damage .... :rolleyes: .... problem for the healer? NOTHING
in a moment the 2 whm died for Voice of Dragon... fortunately our brd still alive and raise up one of 2... in this time Chimera don't hit me for much... Divine Veil -> Stoneskin -> Holy Succor save me in this situation.... with a WAR tank i don't think i should survive (but never say it)

anyway... i play with pld because it's funny!

Yeah maybe can fix PLD (or nerf WAR tanking ability... i hope no my war dd ability D: ) but now pld don't have problem, now need to know, who make more hate? PLD or WAR... need test (i think PLD but the high damage of the WAR make him a good enemy)

Last post for me in here peeps...


Rotation that wont fail.

Step 1: Sentinel
Step 2: Provoke
Step 3: Rapmart
Step 4: Flash
Step 5: Aegis
Step 6: Wardrum
Step 7: Phalanx
Step 8: Spirits Within
Step 9: Maddening Potion
Step 10: Flat Blade combo
Step 11: Gorging Blade combo
Step 12: Divine Veil
Step 13: Outmaneuver
Step 14: Sentinel
Step 15: Provoke
Step 16: Flash
Step 17: Flat Blade Combo
And then rotate Aegis rotation, Flat Blade/Gorging Blade combos,
Run through mob to start Rage of Halone combo.

Tip 1: Eat tanking or ACC food.

Tip 2: Listen to this while tanking -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkjK82f7zIg (lol)

Gear:

If you have full HDL set
you don't need to use slots (ring, earrings, bracelets, shield) for more ENM.
use the slots for more MND, HP or STR.
If not use all ENM gear possible.

Shield:
If you have full HDL set don't use Thormoen's or any high block rate shield. Blocking does not
make u a better tank, Healers will spam overcure u anyways. Blocking and taking less damage
isn't really a big deal.
Use shields with STR/MND/ACC/ATK or somethin' like Canopus Shield (+2 STR),
Vintage Kite shield +1 (+5 MND) or even Ul'dahn Scutum (+4 VIT)...
If not use Thormoen's.

That's all..
It is all in your skills to be a good tank on PLD.
Stop bitchin' about PLD not being a good tank if u havent given it the time needed
to actually get good at it.
If you don't really know what u talking about stop talking, you missinform people that might
actually be interrested in being a PLD tank.

THAT IS ALL FOLKS!

I personally don't understand why people put Spirit's Within so low on their list when it's one of your greatest hate assets and you can pull it off Fourth or Fifth.

If it works for you, please keep using it. I just don't think I'd do as well if I didn't do it sooner.

I tend to go for sentinel > flash > provoke > Divine Veil then position the boss(coincutter for example) using DV will allow you to get a spiritis within off even if you miss because you can spam phalanx,
By then your melee should be around the boss and you can pop rampart.
you will also have flash and provoke back up more or less by now so can pop them again then have TP for flat blade enm combo,
then just rinse once hate is locked you can throw a goring blade combo is aswell on every cd aswell as keeping your enm combo and SW used on every cd.

anyway not sure i typed this up right but this is the way i do it to keep hate on garuda,cc,miser etc etc.
as for the fix PLD its seems to be in the right place now imo so PLD>WAR nuff said move on!

So, I'm a really shitty PLD, I decided to play PLD at cutter's today because I just wanted to see the changes that had been made. I tried warrior first, and my hate was okay, but the whms were riding yellow hate for a lot of it. The next run I change to my derpy PLD, and I kept much better hate. For the run I went PLD on I decided to stay totally stationary and the WHM's hate was in green for the most part. At least for that fight, PLD really is a pretty viable tank. I think the only fight that PLD is not optimal for is coincutter since he does the move that can one shot.

PLD is fine now still needs to take less dmg tho, from none blocked attacks. War has an edge in dps and pld needs that edge in Taking less dmg w/o skills. Maybe i'm just use to my XI pld but I hate the fact that an pld can take the same dmg as other classes basically.

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Originally Posted by Ashiee

So, I'm a really shitty PLD, I decided to play PLD at cutter's today because I just wanted to see the changes that had been made. I tried warrior first, and my hate was okay, but the whms were riding yellow hate for a lot of it. The next run I change to my derpy PLD, and I kept much better hate. For the run I went PLD on I decided to stay totally stationary and the WHM's hate was in green for the most part. At least for that fight, PLD really is a pretty viable tank. I think the only fight that PLD is not optimal for is coincutter since he does the move that can one shot.

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You can face tank coincutter on PLD easy now and take very little damage if you time your abilities right.
i do not even move on coincutter and eat all his swings with minimal dmg!.


face tanking CC http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=PbVlHrnJZgk

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Originally Posted by Firon

PLD is fine now still needs to take less dmg tho, from none blocked attacks. War has an edge in dps and pld needs that edge in Taking less dmg w/o skills. Maybe i'm just use to my XI pld but I hate the fact that an pld can take the same dmg as other classes basically.

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Honestly, I think SE has their tanks all messed up at the moment. When I think of PLD I think of a lowish DPS that has a lot of defense, but kills slower, while warrior would be the one with less defense but can dish out the damage. I myself am annoyed about the SC nerf on high defense mobs. Even though SC was broken before, now on fights like Chim I think I could probably do equal to/more dmg on PLD then I could on WAR, and war is supposedly designed to be able to keep hate with their damage output.