Can you stop reusing models please?

Question: Where does one even begin to come up with sets of gear for places like the moon or Ultima Thule, where there's no culture or style to begin with?

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

I remember someone going over how many reskins each expansion has on Reddit, and Endwalker has more reskins then the other expansions. So while reskins aren't new, they're more common then they have been. Which is odd when the game is making bank, no?

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My question about that list. Does it increase with each expansion? Because that would be an expected trend then since the item database grows with each expansion.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Question: Where does one even begin to come up with sets of gear for places like the moon or Ultima Thule, where there's no culture or style to begin with?

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theres literally rabbits on the moon making clothes as part of their job

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

I actually explained why on page 5.



I actually made an effort to see the other side of things. I saw that we got less and asked myself why. I came to a logical conclusion. Norvrandt offered varied styles and cultures to work with, as did Stormblood.

It's honestly hard to make a proper comparison, when we're not even done with all the expansion content. About the only one to make is with artifact gear being more readily available and easier to get dye options for.




As for Hrothgar. I don't know and honestly don't care. It escaped my mind when I think of "all the complaints". Half the ones I see look cringe ignoring the hair. And an Au Ra player is complaining about it. Do you even care or are you just complaining for the hell of it? I don't really care about that answer either.

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Okay, but again. If they aren’t able to come out with new gear then at the very least the gear they reuse should be dyable. Yes i care, because players shouldn’t have to suffer due to the laziness and incompetency of game developers that are getting paid. Your logical conclusion isn’t very logical. They gave us snow themed gear for the new thavnair dungeon lmao. A place set in an arid desert….and we get snow gear….

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Originally Posted by Lihtleita

theres literally rabbits on the moon making clothes as part of their job

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You're definitely being ironic.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

You're definitely being ironic.

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no. just make gear the rabbits would make after actually talking to people from etheris. its a good opportunity to add some mildly sci-fi themed gear without breaking immersion.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Question: Where does one even begin to come up with sets of gear for places like the moon or Ultima Thule, where there's no culture or style to begin with?

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I don't know.. someone can use their imagination? Isn't it literally the job of a concept artist to think of stuff like this? :confused:

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Originally Posted by Lihtleita

no. just make gear the rabbits would make after actually talking to people from etheris. its a good opportunity to add some mildly sci-fi themed gear without breaking immersion.

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Or at this point just give us the actual ascian gear as drops. Not the bootlegged lookin shadowless gear.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Question: Where does one even begin to come up with sets of gear for places like the moon or Ultima Thule, where there's no culture or style to begin with?

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Ultima Thule is a collection of the dead people of various different planets, each with their own culture before they succumbed to Meteion's song. Gear inspired by any of the civilizations we meet in the zone or dungeon, or hell, any of the countless others we didn't meet but were supposedly sucked into the big bubble of sad would work there. The sky was the limit for that zone glam wise.

I'm still waiting for them to reuse the Plague Doctor set but make it dyable.

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Originally Posted by Lihtleita

no. just make gear the rabbits would make after actually talking to people from etheris. its a good opportunity to add some mildly sci-fi themed gear without breaking immersion.

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have you seen what the rabbits came up with? xD

I'm not terribly bothered b reused models because they tend to make some very visible distinctions... However, I'd love to see more new enemy models added. I think in Endwalker we got two or something?

But the biggest aggravator to me is not that... but the Beast Tribes. They feel really underwhelming, because races like Matanga are so important to the main story and yet their NPCs look really generic. They needed more variations at that.

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Originally Posted by Lihtleita

not only are we getting more reskins, but a lot of roles share the same model. instead of getting 7 outfits per tomeset we get like 3 and a spare shoulderpad.

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That is literally how most gearsets have worked since ARR. Occasional sets get more designs, but three or four is normal.

ARR's tome sets were Darklight (essentially the fully upgraded versions of the same repeated cowl, harness and tin-can tank reiterated since level 15), a recycling of the job gear designs, then Gerolt's Masterworks (5 designs, 1 duplicate) and Ironworks (5 designs, 2 duplicate).

Fast forward to Shadowbringers and we have Ronkan (4 designs, 3 variants or duplicates) Deepshadow (4+3), Crystarium (4+3) and Cryptlurker (3+4).

On those numbers it seems that the number of designs has actually gone up, but spread across more sets instead of having two low-effort sets and two fancier ones.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Or at this point just give us the actual ascian gear as drops. Not the bootlegged lookin shadowless gear.

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I thought the mage outfits were specifically the Ascian and Emissary robes? Though I never got around to actually comparing.

Would you rather all seven roles got the same black robes?

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Originally Posted by Iscah

That is literally how most gearsets have worked since ARR. Occasional sets get more designs, but three or four is normal.

ARR's tome sets were Darklight (essentially the fully upgraded versions of the same repeated cowl, harness and tin-can tank reiterated since level 15), a recycling of the job gear designs, then Gerolt's Masterworks (5 designs, 1 duplicate) and Ironworks (5 designs, 2 duplicate).

Fast forward to Shadowbringers and we have Ronkan (4 designs, 3 variants or duplicates) Deepshadow (4+3), Crystarium (4+3) and Cryptlurker (3+4).

On those numbers it seems that the number of designs has actually gone up, but spread across more sets instead of having two low-effort sets and two fancier ones.





I thought the mage outfits were specifically the Ascian and Emissary robes? Though I never got around to actually comparing.

Would you rather all seven roles got the same black robes?

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Theres differences, also missing the most iconic thing about them(hoods), and yeah thats only 2 roles out of how many? At the very least make them mogstation or something idk.But its the same problem as 9s gear in copied factory all being different from 9s' actual clothes, and being role locked.

As for the arr to shb thing.....8 year difference and one set extra is what they can come up with? And then of course we have EW with the entire missing set for the 89 dungeon AND reused, undyable gear...

No. Let's actually spell out what the 89 dungeon is. The Aetherial Sea. The center of our world. What exactly is missing from this Sharlayan-made structure going deep into Etheirys?

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

My question about that list. Does it increase with each expansion? Because that would be an expected trend then since the item database grows with each expansion.

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This is a list I made some time ago showing the development of crafted and dungeon leveling gear.

https://i.imgur.com/xVKgG5N.jpeg

Purple = Unique, new gear-set listed
Green = First time used, new gear-set listed
Blue = Re-use swapped, old gear-set listed
Yellow = Re-use, old gear-set listed
Red = No item

Based on Warrior armor and weapon
Only takes crafted and dungeon gear
Raid and tome gear are not included as they would all be unique or first time used
Item can have unique mark even if the same model is used on the same tier, example Sharlayan coat being used by all jobs from same dungeon
Does not look at dye

It does show a decrease in new gear models over time.

Gosh dang I love it when someone lays down the law like this.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

No. Let's actually spell out what the 89 dungeon is. The Aetherial Sea. The center of our world. What exactly is missing from this Sharlayan-made structure going deep into Etheirys?

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If you’re going to use the lore excuse(which is a horrible one btw) then please tell me why we got winter/snow themed sets from an undersea desert dungeon. Please explain.

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Originally Posted by Kisshu

This is a list I made some time ago showing the development of crafted and dungeon leveling gear.

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While it's a good chart overall, though I find the layout confusing to read, I think you've missed some things and it doesn't tell the full story, especially in Heavensward.

You've marked the Sohm Al weapon as unique when actually weapons from that series are all recycled from a scattering of sources, including weapons wielded by monsters and ARR crafted sets. The Foolkiller axe specifically is from the giants around Boulder Downs in central Coerthas.

And while it's true that the Woad and Sharlayan sets are unique in that they hadn't been seen before, they are extremely low on their model variety. There is only one Woad body piece model across all seven roles, essentially one pair of pants in seven variants, two models for shoes and gloves and three-and-a-half hats. Sharlayan has exactly one design for all seven roles, only different hats, and still some are repeats.

Again in Stormblood, the Shisui and Nomad sets are basically two core designs mixed-and-matched across seven roles.

Shadowbringers' Dwarven and Endwalker's Palaka sets are also low variety like this.

Another thing to factor in is how many weapons and job-specific gearsets they need to build per series, since the number of jobs has gone up with each expansion. That could be eating up some of their time for making new gear models.

Pretty sure the big Z borrows a few things from Sephirot or is at least based on him. They really did our boy dirty in EW.

The way Z idles with the hand on the platform is pretty much the exact same thing as when Sephirot pops out from the pit and lays his hand on the platform to drag himself up or am i just seeing things?

Also saw it earlier, but who ever said Vanaspati final boss is new, has not done Omega 1 or S ranks in ShB, its just the Alte Roite skeleton with an worm skin.

Reuse is fine, but please a new model every now and then? I'm legit to lazy to go through every single zone and dungeon, but how many new skeletons/models did we get in this expansion?

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

As for the arr to shb thing.....8 year difference and one set extra is what they can come up with?

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I'm not sure what numbers you are adding from my post.

10 unique models in ARR tome sets vs 15 in Shadowbringers is not "one more".

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Originally Posted by Iscah

While it's a good chart overall, though I find the layout confusing to read, I think you've missed some things and it doesn't tell the full story, especially in Heavensward.

You've marked the Sohm Al weapon as unique when actually weapons from that series are all recycled from a scattering of sources, including weapons wielded by monsters and ARR crafted sets. The Foolkiller axe specifically is from the giants around Red Rim in central Coerthas.

And while it's true that the Woad and Sharlayan sets are unique in that they hadn't been seen before, they are extremely low on their model variety. There is only one Woad body piece model across all seven roles, essentially one pair of pants in seven variants, two models for shoes and gloves and three-and-a-half hats. Sharlayan has exactly one design for all seven roles, only different hats, and still some are repeats.

Again in Stormblood, the Shisui and Nomad sets are basically two core designs mixed-and-matched across seven roles.

Shadowbringers' Dwarven and Endwalker's Palaka sets are also low variety like this.

Another thing to factor in is how many weapons and job-specific gearsets they need to build per series, since the number of jobs has gone up with each expansion. That could be eating up some of their time for making new gear models.

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I agree that some sets are more alike in the same tier than others, which is something I've written in the description. The thing with Shisui gear is then that it's very different gear for male and female. If we compare this to the Imperial set that was released, it's near same for male/female, but only 2 base sets with minor variations (casters having cape vs. non on scouting+striking).

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

If you’re going to use the lore excuse(which is a horrible one btw) then please tell me why we got winter/snow themed sets from an undersea desert dungeon. Please explain.

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You speak of a desert, so I'm disregarding this. The lore excuse is solid, unlike you're knowledge of climates.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

You speak of a desert, so I'm disregarding this. The lore excuse is solid, unlike you're knowledge of climates.

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Mistyped, but what does it matter? Tell me again how a winter/snow themed gearset is lore accurate with an undersea dungeon. Now you’re just evading the question lol. Also if you’re going to try and insult someone’s intelligence, at least know proper grammar. It’s your in this case, not you’re.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Mistyped, but what does it matter? Tell me again how a winter/snow themed gearset is lore accurate with an undersea dungeon. Now you’re just evading the question lol. Also if you’re going to try and insult someone’s intelligence, at least know proper grammar. It’s your in this case, not you’re.

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Mistyped? It actually does matter.

At any rate, do yourself a favor and look up fashions from India. That's where Thavnair gains its inspiration from.
You should also check to see where the dungeon actually lies, up in Ilsabard, where it's a cooler climate.

Everything makes sense if you make the effort to look and see what's going on.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Mistyped? It actually does matter.

At any rate, do yourself a favor and look up fashions from India. That's where Thavnair gains its inspiration from.
You should also check to see where the dungeon actually lies, up in Ilsabard, where it's a cooler climate.

Everything makes sense if you make the effort to look and see what's going on.

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uhuh okay…. and the sharlayan sets in the Anamnesis dungeon make sense how exactly?

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

You should also check to see where the dungeon actually lies, up in Ilsabard, where it's a cooler climate.

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Tropical Thavnair itself is also "in Ilsabard", at least according to our teleport list, and the ruins are in the Bounty which is the sea south of Ilsabard and west of Thavnair. The dungeon is also specifically a Thavnairian treasure vault.

I am also confused as to why we are getting wintery fur-lined costumes from it. If there are specific Indian designs that they are based on, I would appreciate learning the context because I wouldn't know where to start looking.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

uhuh okay…. and the sharlayan sets in the Anamnesis dungeon make sense how exactly?

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You're in a mirror world. next

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Originally Posted by Kisshu

I agree that some sets are more alike in the same tier than others, which is something I've written in the description. The thing with Shisui gear is then that it's very different gear for male and female. If we compare this to the Imperial set that was released, it's near same for male/female, but only 2 base sets with minor variations (casters having cape vs. non on scouting+striking).

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I did forget about Shisui having gender differences, although that reminds me that they also used the Shisui designs as seasonal gear, so it's not unique.

(A pity they didn't include the gloves and hairpins in the dyeable seasonal version, though.)


Edit: On further thought, the Shisui gear is essentially ONE model per gender, except that some of them have the full model and some have parts of it (sleeves, drapes, etc) removed.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

You're in a mirror world. next

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But sharlayan doesn’t exist there. Also, yes like Iscah said, the ruins we go to are south of Ilsabard, and it’s thavnairian, so please explain.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

But sharlayan doesn’t exist there. Also, yes like Iscah said, the ruins we go to are south of Ilsabard, and it’s thavnairian, so please explain.

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Cut the BS already. I gave you clues. Go do some research yourself. You ask a lot, yet you can't provide anything to counter what I've brought up. Quid pro quo. Pitch sets for Aetherial Sea, the moon and UT that would have fit in at the time of 6.0

You're grasping at straws trying to quiz me about this set and that set. You have no argument, so the next best thing is to try and trip me up. I'm done with this silly game.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Cut the BS already. I gave you clues. Go do some research yourself. You ask a lot, yet you can't provide anything to counter what I've brought up. Quid pro quo. Pitch sets for Aetherial Sea, the moon and UT that would have fit in at the time of 5.0

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5.0 is ShB…. If you mean 6.0, someone else already mentioned, UT is the culmination of tons of different civilizations. They could draw inspiration from any of those. As for the moon, there’s loads of sci-fi esque gear they could use. Telling me to cut the bs yet you can’t defend your stance whatsoever. You’re trying to use lore as an excuse for the devs being lazy and cutting us out of glams when lore has never been a problem before. Why do we have skinny jeans, baseball caps, hoodies etc in game then hm? Not very fitting for the time period but they’re there nonetheless. Or how about the flying car mount, or flying motorcycle etc. I’ve countered you again and again, you just refuse to see reason because all you do is simp simp simp in any thread that critiques SE.

I'm simping? But you're the one that's putting all this effort into whining. You're badgering a player with questions better answered by the developers.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Mistyped, but what does it matter? Tell me again how a winter/snow themed gearset is lore accurate with an undersea dungeon. Now you’re just evading the question lol. Also if you’re going to try and insult someone’s intelligence, at least know proper grammar. It’s your in this case, not you’re.

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To be fair, further up in the thread you used “i” instead of “I” so it’s a bit like the pot calling the kettle black and embarrassing to call it out unless your own grammar is airtight. Proper grammar doesn’t really exist on the internet anyway so it’s a hopeless effort to be the grammar police.

And in the same post, you said “arid desert” so I don’t think that’s a mistype when you repeated “desert” in a subsequent post for a dungeon zone that spends the first third in a misty rainforest.


As for the gear itself, “darbar” is a fancy Gujarati title so I assume the fur is there to make the gear look extra princely but I agree that it does look more than a little out of place and the choice of colors doesn’t help. But the Radiants’ choice of armor is also odd for a tropical location. I guess Hannish people are built different.

It wouldn’t be the first time the gear we get is a bit weird anyway since Ala Mhigo drops far-eastern gear and the level 69 and a level 60 dungeon drop Tactics Ogre gear in a sci-fi fortress and Polynesian-inspired floating island respectively.

The gear designers have been getting lazier though. I assume they’re a different team than the one that makes the mobs so I don’t know why the thread changed topics to it, but I noticed that miqo ears are disappearing under hats more often now as one example. Gear was blander in the 1.0 days, but it felt designed better and we could even wear visible belts on top of everything. I wonder how much of it could be the newer races taking up resources.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

I'm simping? But you're the one that's putting all this effort into whining. You're badgering a player with questions better answered by the developers.

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I mean you're the one who brought it up in the first place, so not sure why he's badgering you when all you've amounted to say is: "it's because lore" and "do the research" when you clearly don't really know yourself as to why the glamours are strange for EW so far lol. I'd still like the context Iscah asked for those wintery coats that we got recently, since you apparently know a lot about Indian fashion. If you could provide the links for that, it'd be appreciated.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

To be fair, further up in the thread you used “i” instead of “I” so it’s a bit like the pot calling the kettle black and embarrassing to call it out unless your own grammar is airtight. Proper grammar doesn’t really exist on the internet anyway so it’s a hopeless effort to be the grammar police.

And in the same post, you said “arid desert” so I don’t think that’s a mistype when you repeated “desert” in a subsequent post for a dungeon zone that spends the first third in a misty rainforest.


As for the gear itself, “darbar” is a fancy Gujarati title so I assume the fur is there to make the gear look extra princely but I agree that it does look more than a little out of place and the choice of colors doesn’t help. But the Radiants’ choice of armor is also odd for a tropical location. I guess Hannish people are built different.

It wouldn’t be the first time the gear we get is a bit weird anyway since Ala Mhigo drops far-eastern gear and the level 69 and a level 60 dungeon drop Tactics Ogre gear in a sci-fi fortress and Polynesian-inspired floating island respectively.

The gear designers have been getting lazier though. I assume they’re a different team than the one that makes the mobs so I don’t know why the thread changed topics to it, but I noticed that miqo ears are disappearing under hats more often now as one example. Gear was blander in the 1.0 days, but it felt designed better and we could even wear visible belts on top of everything. I wonder how much of it could be the newer races taking up resources.

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Did you really go through my posts just to look for grammar mistakes :p Either way, he was the one trying to call me out for BS when he’s explicitly bringing up BS excuses but funny how you don’t call that out lol.Double standard but not surprised with you. My mistype was moreso i was trying to find the right word for it, thanks to Iscah i understand it now to be tropical.

As for the glams, its been an issue since shb so im not sure how much can be blamed on the new races and how much of it is just pure laziness. We didnt get a male equivalent to the 2b glam in nier, didnt get our tataru glam, dancer and gnb hardly got any primal weapons compared to samurai and rdm etc.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

I'm simping? But you're the one that's putting all this effort into whining. You're badgering a player with questions better answered by the developers.

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You're the one giving excuses for the gear as being "lore reasons." If you're going to come out with a shitty take like that, you better be prepared to back it up or you're going to look like nothing more than a delusional simp. As it stands, you haven't been able to back it up whatsoever, and when pressured you resorts to insulting by calling peoples criticism "whining."

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Did you really go through my posts just to look for grammar mistakes :p

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I have my settings to have the max posts per page so I didn’t exactly need to search for it and just noticed it near the top of the page when I was catching up on the thread and remembered that when further down you were calling someone else out on bad grammar.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

As for the glams, its been an issue since shb so im not sure how much can be blamed on the new races and how much of it is just pure laziness. We didnt get a male equivalent to the 2b glam in nier, didnt get our tataru glam, dancer and gnb hardly got any primal weapons compared to samurai and rdm etc.

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ShB was when we the roster of races was expanded again so I think we can still blame it on the Viera. Especially with how they still seem half-done and it feels like they were spreading their resources thin back then.

We did get our kind of ugly Tataru gear for 6.1 and a coat in 6.0. At least the necklace is nice.

I do think they need to get primal weapons for all jobs going back through history. Missing out on the dungeon weapons for prior dungeons before the level the jobs start makes sense, but the primal weapons are purely for glamour and it makes no sense at all for them to not make them.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

I have my settings to have the max posts per page so I didn’t exactly need to search for it and just noticed it near the top of the page when I was catching up on the thread and remembered that when further down you were calling someone else out on bad grammar.



ShB was when we the roster of races was expanded again so I think we can still blame it on the Viera. Especially with how they still seem half-done and it feels like they were spreading their resources thin back then.

We did get our kind of ugly Tataru gear for 6.1 and a coat in 6.0. At least the necklace is nice.

I do think they need to get primal weapons for all jobs going back through history. Missing out on the dungeon weapons for prior dungeons before the level the jobs start makes sense, but the primal weapons are purely for glamour and it makes no sense at all for them to not make them.

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The coat was a reused outfit. 6.1 was new yes but typically we get one per expansion, we got none in shb. There's also the fact of we started getting less content overall starting from ShB onwards so that combined with the less and reused glams makes me thing it isnt just the races thats an issue. Especially when you consider after 3 years the only thing the devs could muster for hrothgar was 6 hairstyles cutting off their ears. Something else seems to be going on.

Also...yes i was correcting him on grammar because if you'd read what i said, i said if you're going to insult someones intelligence at least have proper grammar otherwise they just look equally as lacking in that department. Im not over here insulting peoples intelligence like he is lol.

Also sidenote though, another thing i find interesting we're missing out on glam wise is....veteran rewards. We lost those about halfway through stormblood and havent gotten them back, so thats even more glams we've missed out on, which couldve been a great opportunity to move those to the achievement point system since thats been lacking for quite some time now but, that would require actual effort on their part.

I never actually said anything about lore, but I couldn't be bothered to correct, lest that be misinterpreted. Clearly, I was damned if I did and damned if I didn't. You don't care for the truth, only to whine and complain and label me as a simp.

To review: my conclusion had to do with the fact that the team explores different parts of the real world and its history and through the course of the story you run into varied groups inspired by one thing or another. These were plentiful in past expansions, but here we are facing the end of the world and exploring areas where nothing really thrives. In the case of Sharlayan and Labrynthos, we've seen plenty and more of that style since Heavensward. The moon buns could potentially come up with some sort of fashion, but in 6.0 they were a little too busy with more important matters.

On the matter of new gear vs. reskins, I'm reserving judgment until after 7.0 comes out and we see all that they gave us. That's just the sensible and logical thing to do.

Don't try to call me on BS when you're bringing up stuff that isn't even related to the main topic. You really went off the rails bringing up jeans and such, items that have never had any real connection to the story and the world. It's all been map dungeon drops and mog station items.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

I never actually said anything about lore, but I couldn't be bothered to correct, lest that be misinterpreted. Clearly, I was damned if I did and damned if I didn't. You don't care for the truth, only to whine and complain and label me as a simp.

To review: my conclusion had to do with the fact that the team explores different parts of the real world and its history and through the course of the story you run into varied groups inspired by one thing or another. These were plentiful in past expansions, but here we are facing the end of the world and exploring areas where nothing really thrives. In the case of Sharlayan and Labrynthos, we've seen plenty and more of that style since Heavensward. The moon buns could potentially come up with some sort of fashion, but in 6.0 they were a little too busy with more important matters.

On the matter of new gear vs. reskins, I'm reserving judgment until after 7.0 comes out and we see all that they gave us. That's just the sensible and logical thing to do.

Don't try to call me on BS when you're bringing up stuff that isn't even related to the main topic. You really went off the rails bringing up jeans and such, items that have never had any real connection to the story and the world. It's all been map dungeon drops and mog station items.

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You inherently brought up the lore of each zone though as a point to why they did or didnt have glams. You brought up Ultima Thule, of which theres numerous civilizations we're shown they could have taken inspiration from. You brought up the moon, of which case the rabbits could have made something, but we didnt even have a dungeon on the moon so the point is rather moot.I brought up the jeans etc because it really does seem youre trying to argue the story or lore=glams. You were trying to use the geographical location of the new dungeon to try and defend the snow themed gear when in reality it doesnt work...