Why telling people to unsub is a horrible defense of the game.

If people are naturally moving to unsub isn't that actually proving poor design. Mindless repetition is a common problem in most games and reskinning stack markers doesn't fix the core issues. They could make raids more complex than just dodging aoes and attacking for 2 hours plus, they could incorporate jumping puzzles or memory puzzles or use of mounts kind of like destiny 2.

As far as I'm aware, Yoshi P stated he doesn't mind people unsubbing, taking breaks, and coming back whenever they want, which I'd at least say is a much healthier mindset than trying to trap people into playing for as long and often as possible to inflate engagement metrics.... but on the flip side, it also kinda lowkey implies he's expecting the people leaving to come back later, and that's a mindset the WoW dev team and playerbase were also very guilty of - "it's cyclical" "they'll all come back next expansion" "see you next patch" "it's normal during content drought" "the game's fine as is" "you think you want it, but you don't" ...over, and over, and over, and we can see where that lead to - the whole assault debacle wasn't 'the' reason for the bleeding subs, it was just the last straw for many people dealing with what was a sinking ship full of band-aids holding it together thus far.

Sure, you may call it a slippery slope from a paranoid ex-WoW player, but the parallels and red flags are definitely there.

FFXIV has the luxury of instead of saying this game is not for you, this month's sub is not for you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skiros

1. The game is deliberately designed in a way that disincentivizes players from unsubbing.

...

Obviously, the game is far from the worst in this respect. Indeed it's probably one of the best MMOs at preventing FOMO. But that is a low bar since virtually all MMOs are predatory at some level.

---

Money needs to be made and if the stats are right, savage/ultimate raiders make up the smallest percentage of players.
You could therefore surmise that the team needs to come up with a way to make this type of content worthwhile from a financial perspective.
On the account of patch releases, the target population is casuals. Being able to attract them back to the game and keep them moderately satisfied is a good thing as it allows SE to rely more on the majority population.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skiros

2. The game's community has organically developed in a way that disincentivizes players from unsubbing.

...

You might think that that is not the developers' issue, but Blizzard understood that many players stay in the game because of network effects and switching costs (https://blogs.cornell.edu/info2040/2...iplayer-games/). The game is designed in many ways to keep you in the game not just with its content and gameplay, but also with how its systems encourage socialization, bonding, and the making of friendships.

However, that is not sufficient to save World of Warcraft, and this alone is not going to be sufficient to keep FF14 afloat. Players who care less about these network effects will quit first. When your friends return to the game less and less and you stop hearing back from friends from since Heavensward, you'll be less and less disincentivized to stay subbed in the game.

Indeed, the rise of Discord means that Square Enix needs to realize that one of the huge profit-making mechanism of MMOs, the social bonds that keep the players in the game, is weaker and weaker. Telling players to unsub is bad for the game because very frequently you are also telling players to abandon their friends, statics, and communities. Even if you keep up with each other on Discord, there's no guarantee that bond will hold if you don't have another video game that you play together.

---

This is normal socialization, which I wouldn't fault the community for.
Relate your steam library to a irl game arcade. If you stop going to the gaming arcade, any bonds made there will slowly dissolve.
Tying negative words like "abandon your friends, statics, and communities" is a bit dramatic, but these things happen irl as a result of life changes, interest changes, etc. Thus it's not so impossible to happen in such a social game like FFXIV.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skiros

3. Unsubbing does not address the issue with the lack of meaningful content in the game for veterans.

Many players want to stay in an MMO and not feel burnt out. I understand that new players, especially those who have only started in Shadowbringers, find a lot to do in the game. But many veterans do not. One of the most important reasons is because an overwhelming majority of this game's content simply do not have good replay value.

A huge part of raiding is to figure out mechanics and practice until you do the dance cleanly. Once you have done that, you will always use your GCD in this particular order, barring one or two changed GCDs depending on mechanics. You will always solve this mechanic in this particular way. You will almost always optimize your rotation in the exact same way. The only exception is Black Mage, which has enough RNG elements in high-end optimization (transpose lines) to keep it fresh and different each encounter. But for the rest of the jobs, you are either dealing with RNG that requires minimal thought (like DNC holding fans for bursts) or dealing with zero RNG at all.

Even in the most current Ultimate, I have already settled into a static rotation on GNB that I execute in the exact order every time, unless I fuck up.

This goes beyond raiding. Crafting has become so repetitive now because there is close to zero incentive in doing anything more than clicking on the same macros figured out by someone else for you. At the very least, HW crafting and SB's Whistle mechanics added depth to crafting and allowed a crafter to have fun manually crafting even on simple recipes by needing to use some thinking, since the procs are going to be different every time.

So when someone says that current crafting is "content" I do not understand what they mean, because it's a chore - once you figure out the optimal rotation that minimizes the number of steps for your melds, you are done. That takes 1 minute if you are lazy and just copy the rotation from someone else, and 10 minutes if you have any level of understanding of how to build crafting rotations. Clicking on macros for the rest of the time is not content for the vast majority of players.

I can go on and on about various other aspects of the game. For example, once you experienced a treasure hunt a few times, you have experienced all treasure hunts. There is little to no variation in treasure maps - they all have the same few gimmicks (like limit cut kill orders). Once you've seen all the gimmicks, you've seen them all.

Once you experienced a dungeon, you have experienced all Expert runs for that patch. You will be doing the same mechanics in the same order every time.

Unfortunately, replayable content in FF14 are mostly out of reach for most players. Solo HoH and PotD are highly replayable because different floor layouts, different pomander drops, and even different monster distribution can alter a run drastically and sometimes even mean an easy solo run or a failure.

Feast was also a highly replayable content at the top levels when people generally know what they're doing. You are facing players who have different personalities, have different tactics and strategies. Different matchups determine what strategy you should pursue - on healer, I have to decide whether to go hard and use more Glares or focus on healing to cover weaker Platinum players.

Unfortunately too many content in FF14 is one-and-done, like the MSQ, trials, raids, crafting, treasure maps, and so on. Telling players to do insane grinds like 2000 mentor roulettes is not helpful. This kind of grind is worse than anything in Lost Ark, a KMMO. The vast majority of players do not consider such grinds meaningful content nor are they compelled to do these types of content. Telling players to unsub is not helpful and does not solve the lack of replayability of the game. Caught between the two a lot of players find themselves burning through the content in a single week even when playing at a casual pace. Were it not for Ultimate, I would have personally already unsubbed once again because I experienced all the 6.1 content in a few days playing only 2-3 hours a day. The rest are grindy achievements which are not what anybody is asking for when they ask for more content in the game.

I don't think anyone is asking for a patch to literally fill up all four months of our time. That is insane. We're just asking for the game to maybe provide us with more than 10 hours of gameplay. Replayable content is the key in doing this but they have failed in most of them so far.

---

Yes, feature scope is a thing.
I highly suspect limited housing Island:Sanctuary will be one such thing.

Also, you want replayable content but have highly criticised savage and ultimate which are the replayable content for those minded people.
People have also criticised Eureka and Bozja and Deep Dungeons, DF.
The issue is replayability has been forcibly put to the most basal level (casual) i.e. crafting (which was once considered its own endgame) in order to probably hopefully retain its base consumers.

People also play this game at an astonishingly disturbing amount. It's also many people's main or even only game. It can be a drag for a veteran if this is their one and only game (oof).
Consumption upon patch releases are FOMO induced crazes which is by no means SE's fault imho, especially at the rate which they release patches and its content.
This also ties into the above for replayable savages. If there were no sense of weekly gates or currency limitations, it'd be a one and done deal for a few weeks.
And as all us PF people know the first week or 2 is the most crucial because after those first few weeks, PF becomes a storm of chaos. This is a common mindset that fuels PF FOMO and "one and done". You even said it "at the top levels when people generally know what they're doing". Though PvP is not the dance that PvE is.
Also, we're now in the 5th expansion. SE is probably asking itself "how much more can we add to this game until disorganisation becomes a large percent of the project?".

Setting a culture of lulls and breaks are not a bad thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skiros

4. Unsubbing does not address the issue with the lack of quality or dissatisfaction with the design philosophy of certain aspects of the game.

I'm sure it goes without saying but... telling players to unsub if they don't like healer design is even more nonsensical than telling players to unsub due to a content drought. Whereas you'll get new content if you come back to the game a year later, you are not going to really suddenly get a new healer design. If they intend on designing aspects of the game that are at odds with what you desire as a player, no amount of unsubbing is going to do anything. You will come back and face the exact same design and content that has previously dissatisfied you.

---

On the other hand, no game can provide everything for everyone.
Unsubbing may not be the answer, but feedback will do well enough and unsubbing is a form of financial feedback that SE can tangibly see.
It’s also what I suspect they’re preparing for as they start to realise that xiv can no longer be maintained or added upon because it becomes too financially and just developmentally too monstrous.

Although telling someone to unsub is highly demotivating and dumbh I think the real message is: ty for your feedback, now go play something that makes you feel fullfilled. What you want may or may not be addressed.


ps: this is me trying to see another perspective, personally i just think se invested points into the wrong stats fi you know what i mean

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DBriggs304

(Despite being a troll thread)

If it isnt fun, Unsub.
The game will go on...like, really.

---

Best advice really. As a say goes "take it or leave it".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vahlnir

It is also entirely possible to enjoy a game despite its flaws, while being able to criticize what one doesn't like. A lot of the time, especially lately, the default reaction to most complaints has been "leave then, no one cares" as if it is some sort of personal attack. A few regulars have been called out on this, and none of them take kindly to that. Well, neither do people being told to leave. It's not as black and white as some make it out to be.

---

With that said, SE is quite welcome to go in the direction Netflix is currently headed. I wouldn't want that for them, and I am sure they wouldn't either, but it is ready proof that no amount of past success can perpetually insulate from future failure... particularly due to complacence.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Allegor

As far as I'm aware, Yoshi P stated he doesn't mind people unsubbing, taking breaks, and coming back whenever they want, which I'd at least say is a much healthier mindset than trying to trap people into playing for as long and often as possible to inflate engagement metrics.... but on the flip side, it also kinda lowkey implies he's expecting the people leaving to come back later, and that's a mindset the WoW dev team and playerbase were also very guilty of - "it's cyclical" "they'll all come back next expansion" "see you next patch" "it's normal during content drought" "the game's fine as is" "you think you want it, but you don't" ...over, and over, and over, and we can see where that lead to - the whole assault debacle wasn't 'the' reason for the bleeding subs, it was just the last straw for many people dealing with what was a sinking ship full of band-aids holding it together thus far.

Sure, you may call it a slippery slope from a paranoid ex-WoW player, but the parallels and red flags are definitely there.

---

The WoW team did not have that mindset....They have literally been designing their content the last few years to be as grindy as possibly in order to maintain player retention.

The reason WoW players have been enjoying FFXIV is because they don't feel forced to log in every day like they did in WoW because FFXIV doesn't demand you to log in every single day or fall behind.

Content that "lasts" for long usually (or always) refers to content you have to mindlessly farm for hours and hours of your life.
Sounds like a lot of fun!

Otherwise, all content is going to be finite, especially if you play many hours a day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

The implication is that smart veteran players saw the problems WoW created miles away and spoke up in an effort to try and convince the development team to take a step back and reconsider their plans. Instead they doubled down on questionable design choices and the game began bleeding active subscriptions over time. Any feedback, no matter how constructive, was shot down there as well with the 'jUsT uNsUb BrO' declaration. As if people who are passionate and invested in something should just up and leave rather than fight to try and see a different trajectory embraced.

Eventually even many passionate fans left as well and all that is left today is a soulless husk. A shadow of its former glory.

I can safely suggest that FFXIV is likely to go the same way if recent rends continue.

---

Yeah, I don't think so. The problem is that everyone has their own opinion on why WoW is in decline, but the most vocal group is the hardcore contingent that always complains that the game is being dumbed down when there is objective proof that it's not. The reason that WoW is in decline while this game is growing was summed up very nicely in a similar parser debate on the WoW forums:
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...oxic/1234978/5

Quote:

---

Do you remember when you played Street Fighter against your friend as a kid and you both had fun?

This is Final Fantasy.

What if I told you that you were both playing the wrong character because Blanka and Sagat are terrible and that good players play Ryu Ken and E.Honda and if you ever do a combo of less than 4 hits you’re an absolutely terrible player, and if your playing on less than rank 8 of turbo then your street fighter games didn’t even count?

In fact what if I then went further and said that if you come to my house to play street fighter I’m going to review your high scores to see if your good enough to play with me in versus mode before I let you plug in the player two controller?

This is WoW.

---

I wasn't the one who posted that, but I wholeheartedly agree with that player.

"If it isn't fun then don't play" is a terrible argument because it's really not black and white.

A game can be fun enough to play and pay for, but still lacking in many areas that cause your enthusiasm to drain faster, or be heading down a bad path in terms of design direction that will likely lead you to move on. Or it could be that the game is simply the best on the market at the time but could easily be overtaken by another game at any moment. But you still like the game overall. You want it to succeed, so you leave feedback.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Do you keep paying for Netflix if you don't like the shows? Do you keep eating at that restaurant if they changed the recipes up n you no longer enjoy their food? Why is being subbed to xiv any different? This has nothing to do with defense. It's called common sense. Don't put you money into things you aren't enjoying

---

This is a good example. What if Netflix only cancelled a few of your favorite shows. What if your favorite restaurant was still good but only changed a few items on their menu. Of course you'd still go there, but why would you just keep quiet? Then Netflix thinks "ah no complaints, we're on the right track, let's cancel the rest of the shows in that genre" and your favorite restaurant thinks their new dishes are fine and starts changing more of the menu.

Feedback is a vital part of any product that companies value extremely highly. You can like a product enough to pay for it but still have criticism and that criticism is important. How is that so hard to grasp?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clover_Blake

Content that "lasts" for long usually (or always) refers to content you have to mindlessly farm for hours and hours of your life.
Sounds like a lot of fun!

---

It actually can be.
Somehow I happily burnt countless hours in WoW chasing down 1% droprate mounts from old raids and filling out my pet tab years ago. In ff14 I just don't care. Grinds, mounts, minions and such exist but I'm not bothered. It's hard to put a finger on why that's the case here, but it is.

We've somehow fostered a community mindset where caring about earning anything is looked down on, so why bother. There's less emphasis on collections or achievements too. FF14 is the sort of game that discourages investing into it, but an MMO is exactly the sort of thing I want to invest into. I don't mean no-life, just invest. I do actually find that fun.

I think it's a reason we lost the spike of WoW players at launch so fast. WoW players wanted a game to invest into for years too (that didn't involve fomo or infinite treadmills), but you soon realize this isn't the game.

Encouraging people to take breaks has nothing to do with bad design and everything to do with looking out for the customer. I remember playing XI early on and always seeing a reminder to take breaks. The story even drops that hint every so often when the WOL is doing their thing, seemingly without a moment's rest. There's only so much for some to do because they only enjoy a certain activity and that's fine. This game (or any game) should not take over your life as it's very unhealthy to just sit around all that time.

Hulu allows you to pause your subscription for up to 12 weeks. Is that supposed to be indicative of having crappy content? No. People watch what they want and when a season's up, they take a break.

Telling people to unsub is actually really reasonable. What people don't get is that there is a difference between valid criticism and trying to change the game to what you like by crying like a baby about it.

The problem is that your idea of the perfect game might not be what the devs or other players envision.

Fact is that the game can't be everything and for everyone, the game will never be perfect for every single player and that is a fact that people have to accept. So if you feel really unhappy with the direction the game is going and you don't see any changes in your favor then yes, unsubscribe from the game and choose another game that suits you better. If you like hardcore raiding go to WoW and if you like a great Open World then go to GW2. And if you like lootboxes go to SWtoR.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

FF14 is the sort of game that discourages investing into it, but an MMO is exactly the sort of thing I want to invest into. I don't mean no-life, just invest. I do actually find that fun.

I think it's a reason we lost the spike of WoW players at launch so fast. WoW players wanted a game to invest into for years too (that didn't involve fomo or infinite treadmills), but you soon realize this isn't the game.

---

Would you please expand on this? This is the only game I play, is something I'm very much invested in, and have been for many years. I'm curious to hear why you feel differently.

People who aren't enjoying FFXIV should unsub. It's not about defending FFXIV, it's about suggesting the most rational course of action after giving feedback.

The game shouldn't be defended at any point. If it's bad, let the subs take a deep dive and leave SE to deal with the problem, not the players.

The most we all should be bothered to do should be to just leave feedback on the different things to SE ("i like/dislike X because this or that")

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

Yoshi P said to tell everyone that isn't having fun to unsub. That is what we must do!

---

I know that you're just kidding, but the fact is that many people keep repeating this, but that's not what he said. He said to go do other things for a while. That's not the same as unsubbing completely. When new game content drops, it's normal to go hard on a game for a little while. Once you're cleared the main story, though, it's understandable that you wouldn't be incentivized to play as much. That's perfectly fine, and SE is OK with that. It's OK to not play your favorite game every single day. The fact that someone is playing it every single day is probably the reason they're burned out and bored.

This game is really good about enabling breaks. The Wondrous Tails, for example, has a two-week window, and there are no arbitrary gates on it to prevent you from filling all nine seals in a single day. Similarly, if you go in really hard, you could probably cap your tomestones for the week in a couple of days. Contrast that with games like WoW, where you have a slow anima grind that comes to a hard stop after a couple of hours, once you've done all the WQs for the day. Missing a day in that game feels terrible because everything is so time gated. The thing I love most about FFXIV is not feeling like i'm missing out on game content if I decide to have a movie night with my wife. In fact, I quit WoW for almost ten years simply because I was sick of having to constantly choose between attending the kids' sporting events/concerts/awards ceremonies and prepping for raid night. The kids were always winning out, much to my guild's dismay. I just didn't want to play a game that hurt my friends when I needed a break from it. Thank goodness FFXIV isn't like that.

Hi, I'm a 1.0 player. I've never unsubbed.

I still haven't run out of things to do. I still have a whole crapton of achievements I could earn. I still have a bunch of jobs to get to 90, I still have Eureka weapons to finish, I still have fish to catch.

Wanting more of your specific thing you like to do is fine. But that isn't the same as the game having "no content for veterans."

Wonder what will happen if enough people decide to unsubscribe and actually hurt their profits?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by myahele

Wonder what will happen if enough people decide to unsubscribe and actually hurt their profits?

---

Well the folks who have issues are just a loud minority. Can't imagine it ever having a huge impact

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by myahele

Wonder what will happen if enough people decide to unsubscribe and actually hurt their profits?

---

Careful, you're suggesting people actually take action and put their Money where their mouth is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BokoToloko

People who aren't enjoying FFXIV should unsub. It's not about defending FFXIV, it's about suggesting the most rational course of action after giving feedback.

The game shouldn't be defended at any point. If it's bad, let the subs take a deep dive and leave SE to deal with the problem, not the players.

The most we all should be bothered to do should be to just leave feedback on the different things to SE ("i like/dislike X because this or that")

---

https://c.tenor.com/900kyLMgTcIAAAAC...ense-south.gif

Having played swtor recently I really feel that xiv should atleast allow you to login to the game and let you do arr and hw stuff without a sub, so you can atleast not lose your house cause really no one can defend that.

I don't feel I get what I sub for and have to stay subbed to keep my house in case I wanna invite people over next time I feel like it so its definitely bad design.

I have never seen a leader of a product/business openly say "Please spend your money on our competitors" Sure it makes him sound nice, but that is a poor attitude to have if you're trying to put a product out.

Imagine if Sony flat out said "Just go buy Xbox, it's cool".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kyrj

I have never seen a leader of a product/business openly say "Please spend your money on our competitors" Sure it makes him sound nice, but that is a poor attitude to have if you're trying to put a product out.

Imagine if Sony flat out said "Just go buy Xbox, it's cool".

---

If anything, it says the level of confidence that the dev team has that people will return as they add more stuff. To do everything in your power to try to prevent people from leaving or they'll miss X due to not being on all the time can be bad business on its own (look at WoW). Understanding that people will leave and do other stuff before returning, accepting it, and running with it is also smart. Most MMOs tend to lose subs or active players shortly after new content is released after people have gone through it, and the devs have apparently realized that's a normal thing and are just doing their usual while trying to make quality content that will keep people coming back every patch.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kyrj

I have never seen a leader of a product/business openly say "Please spend your money on our competitors" Sure it makes him sound nice, but that is a poor attitude to have if you're trying to put a product out.

Imagine if Sony flat out said "Just go buy Xbox, it's cool".

---

No he said it is unhealthy to force yourself to try and play or be invested in a video game.

Quote:

---

海外ゲーマー
ミスター吉田、俺は『FFXIV』が大好きなんだ。でも、ずっとプレイし続けるのが辛くなってしまって、いまはゲームを休んでいるんだ。すまない。何かずっとゲームを続けるためのコツや、モチベーションがあれば教えてくれないか？
"Hey YoshiP, I love FFXIV, but it's hard to keep playing your game (because of the lack of content) and now I'm taking a break here. Sorry for asking this but is there a way or a reason to keep playing? or anything that can you teach me how to keep my motivation for playing your game?" - A player asking Yoshida during Gamescom

Yoshida's answer
無理して毎日やらなくていいよ。ゲームなんだし、辛いならやめればいい。むしろ、いまはたくさんゲームが発売されるから、ひとつに絞るのはストレスだよ。だから、メジャーパッチがでたら一気にプレイして、飽きる前にパッとやめて。ほかのゲームをやればいいよ。またメジャーがでたら戻ってくる。僕はそれがいちばんうれしいし、結果、それがいちばん長くゲームをプレイするコツだと思う。
Yoshida "It's alright not to play it everyday. Since it's just a game, you can stop forcing yourself if it's hard on you to keep that up. Rather, it'll just pile up unnecessary stress if you limit yourself into playing just that one game since there are so many other games out there. So, do come back and play it to your heart's content when the major patch kicks in, then stop it to play other games before you got burnt out, and then come back for another major patch. This will actually make me happier, and in the end, I think this is the best solution I can answer for keeping your motivation up for the game."

---

I swear this extract has been abused and misconstrued so much that it's a far cry from what he's actually stated. What else is he going to say? Go hunt for achievements, go try fishing log, go collect all the relics? People have different tastes and goals in a game so it is pointless and unhealthy to expect someone to force themselves to play your game. Different folks have different strokes, and other games do certain things much better or can act as a substitute in a content lul.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jettinson

I mean i have unsubbed for some months this year and came back for 6.1 like nothing happened... and many other people have their own reason to do. Some are not even due to the game's fault, money, free time, work etc.
It is literally a subscription, do what you need to do with your money including if you are feeling unsatisfied, feeling burn out etc

Not everybody will write an essay or anything on why they unsub. Data and money are enough of feedback in those cases.

---

I unsubbed for what seems like 3 years (since I finished the initial ShB MSQ) I completed the Extremes that were released at that time and only came back now since it seemed there were tons of things to do.

In that time I have played many games I have missed including a gem in Sekiro.

Unsub if you think the game is bad.
Do not unsub, or tell anyone to unsub, over thinking there are parts of it that could be improved to make it even better.
It's just that simple.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Minarisweet

Having played swtor recently I really feel that xiv should atleast allow you to login to the game and let you do arr and hw stuff without a sub, so you can atleast not lose your house cause really no one can defend that.

I don't feel I get what I sub for and have to stay subbed to keep my house in case I wanna invite people over next time I feel like it so its definitely bad design.

---

Exactly. The sub isn't even worth it honestly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Do you keep paying for Netflix if you don't like the shows? Do you keep eating at that restaurant if they changed the recipes up n you no longer enjoy their food? Why is being subbed to xiv any different? This has nothing to do with defense. It's called common sense. Don't put you money into things you aren't enjoying

---

The world is not in this black-and-white dichotomy either. A flawed game doesn't mean a bad game. If you hate the game then fine, but don't leave a bad taste in everyone's mouths just because you love huffing and puffing here, and wishing the death of the game that we still enjoy while giving legitimate feedback on the things that we have problems with in the game. There are shows that I still enjoy on Netflix which is why I'm still subscribed to it despite everything else.

I'm shocked how misused this statement has been lately. I've seen a few people point it out, but way too many people seem to misunderstand, I even finally made a forum account to add weight to this. Yoshi-P has stated since the dawn of this game, because he had a bunch of experience playing wow and researching it more when making ffxiv, he knew a big complaint in mmos was when players felt like they had to log in every day to keep up with everybody else, which wow has always been terrible with. I believe he has stated many times how games would use unhealthy practices to keep players constantly playing, with the goal if them giving their lives and money to the game, like time gating stuff in WoW just to keep players logging in every single day and never turning off their sub. I also believe he has said it keeps the community healthier when people take breaks and come back when they want, rather than getting burnt out and resenting the game for what feels like making you waste your time. Stop spreading false messages based off third hand knowledge please, the devs have better things to worry about, like fixing summoner and reverting the changes they did to my favorite class. Please change summoner back :c

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cid_Lufaine

I'm shocked how misused this statement has been lately. I've seen a few people point it out, but way too many people seem to misunderstand, I even finally made a forum account to add weight to this. Yoshi-P has stated since the dawn of this game, because he had a bunch of experience playing wow and researching it more when making ffxiv, he knew a big complaint in mmos was when players felt like they had to log in every day to keep up with everybody else, which wow has always been terrible with. I believe he has stated many times how games would use unhealthy practices to keep players constantly playing, with the goal if them giving their lives and money to the game, like time gating stuff in WoW just to keep players logging in every single day and never turning off their sub. I also believe he has said it keeps the community healthier when people take breaks and come back when they want, rather than getting burnt out and resenting the game for what feels like making you waste your time. Stop spreading false messages based off third hand knowledge please, the devs have better things to worry about, like fixing summoner and reverting the changes they did to my favorite class. Please change summoner back :c

---

That has nothing to do with whether there is enough fresh, meaningful content in the game though?

You can put lots of fresh, meaningful, and repetable content in the game WITHOUT making players feel like they're a mandatory chore.

Stuff like Ultimate is exactly this type of content. I am never compelled to raid Ultimates. I do it because I find fun.

Now add more fun content in the game that are OPTIONAL and can keep players engaged for a whole patch. That is all people are asking for.

ENGAGEMENT AND FUN =/= MANDATORY FOMO

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kyrj

I have never seen a leader of a product/business openly say "Please spend your money on our competitors" Sure it makes him sound nice, but that is a poor attitude to have if you're trying to put a product out.

---

It's actually quite smart because it removes any responsibility for the company to provide content that keeps you entertained long term. They know you're unlikely to unsubscribe entirely, you still have your house being held hostage, your weekly static raid or might simply decide you might as well let the sub run when the next patch is a month or two away.

However, if you say "I'm bored, this content doesn't keep me entertained for more than a week" they can say "but we told you to go play something else, it's good for your health!". The forums are happy to throw this line out at any sort of complaint about lack of content, like a company asking you to pay a sub then find another game for entertainment is a great thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaurhz

No he said it is unhealthy to force yourself to try and play or be invested in a video game.

---

I don't think it's unhealthy to invest in one game. I love investing in one MMO. I don't mean no-lifeing or anything either. I'd rather savor one game fully and take a break if I eventually get burnt out, than scatter it across 10 games where I only take bite sized pieces and never fully get into them. That's just how I am, I tend to latch onto one thing and I'm perfectly content for a few years. I've done that with any past MMO's I've played without a problem, but it's difficult to do that with ff14.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skiros

That has nothing to do with whether there is enough fresh, meaningful content in the game though?

You can put lots of fresh, meaningful, and repetable content in the game WITHOUT making players feel like they're a mandatory chore.

Stuff like Ultimate is exactly this type of content. I am never compelled to raid Ultimates. I do it because I find fun.

Now add more fun content in the game that are OPTIONAL and can keep players engaged for a whole patch. That is all people are asking for.

ENGAGEMENT AND FUN =/= MANDATORY FOMO

---

You can take a break from the game and play something else. Many MMOs have this problem as well including ESO btw, and the idea of it being a chore and etc is pretty subjective really. My younger brother, who has over 3,000 hours of playtime with ESO and keeps playing the game, doesn't mind the grind in ESO while I do for example. Different strokes for different people. Again, you can enjoy the game despite it's issues. It's like with food; eating the same dish over and over again would make anyone bored, so eating something else would rejuvenate you to eat your favorite dish again later.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

It's actually quite smart because it removes any responsibility for the company to provide content that keeps you entertained long term. They know you're unlikely to unsubscribe entirely, you still have your house being held hostage, your weekly static raid or might simply decide you might as well let the sub run when the next patch is a month or two away.

However, if you say "I'm bored, this content doesn't keep me entertained for more than a week" they can say "but we told you to go play something else, it's good for your health!". The forums are happy to throw this line out at any sort of complaint about lack of content, like a company asking you to pay a sub then find another game for entertainment is a great thing.



I don't think it's unhealthy to invest in one game. I love investing in one MMO. I don't mean no-lifeing or anything either. I'd rather savor one game fully and take a break if I eventually get burnt out, than scatter it across 10 games where I only take bite sized pieces and never fully get into them. That's just how I am, I tend to latch onto one thing and I'm perfectly content for a few years. I've done that with any past MMO's I've played without a problem, but it's difficult to do that with ff14.

---

The issue is not necessarily investing in a single game -- But instead trying to force it upon yourself when it otherwise may not be healthy to do so - E.g. the game taking a different direction or just generally not developing the content that you enjoy. Personally, this is my main-game and I would stand to argue I play it maybe too much sometimes - But if I find other games that tickle my fancy in other areas then I am open to -- and have played other games in the past where they have dimensions of content which I don't necessarily find in FFXIV.

Let's be honest here no one genuinely cares about the health of other people but to defend yoship, person no one really knows personally.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Minarisweet

Let's be honest here no one genuinely cares about the health of other people but to defend yoship, person no one really knows personally.

---

Whatever helps you sleep at night. Regardless of your own personal feelings, it is unhealthy to force yourself to be invested in something, especially if you don't enjoy it, or if it doesn't really have anything to offer you at the time.

Don't think anybody cares what you do with your time. personally, I'm just correcting an incorrect interpretation of what was said.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Whatever helps you sleep at night. Regardless of your own personal feelings, it is unhealthy to force yourself to be invested in something, especially if you don't enjoy it, or if it doesn't really have anything to offer you at the time.

Don't think anybody cares what you do with your time. personally, I'm just correcting an incorrect interpretation of what was said.

---

Pretty much this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cid_Lufaine

I'm shocked how misused this statement has been lately. I've seen a few people point it out, but way too many people seem to misunderstand, I even finally made a forum account to add weight to this. Yoshi-P has stated since the dawn of this game, because he had a bunch of experience playing wow and researching it more when making ffxiv, he knew a big complaint in mmos was when players felt like they had to log in every day to keep up with everybody else, which wow has always been terrible with. I believe he has stated many times how games would use unhealthy practices to keep players constantly playing, with the goal if them giving their lives and money to the game, like time gating stuff in WoW just to keep players logging in every single day and never turning off their sub. I also believe he has said it keeps the community healthier when people take breaks and come back when they want, rather than getting burnt out and resenting the game for what feels like making you waste your time. Stop spreading false messages based off third hand knowledge please, the devs have better things to worry about, like fixing summoner and reverting the changes they did to my favorite class. Please change summoner back :c

---

Stop Spitting Facts and Common Sense.
The internet doesn't like that, just be mad and twist the Devs Message to suit your Needs and Narrative.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Stop Spitting Facts and Common Sense.
The internet doesn't like that, just be mad and twist the Devs Message to suit your Needs and Narrative.

---

funny thing is that's what you lot do lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Minarisweet

funny thing is that's what you lot do lol

---

I dont recall doing that myself.

If your static doesn't speak to you outside of FF14 and doesn't have any interest in keeping up with you unless you're planning to do more raiding, then they aren't your friends.

This thread is needed again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SieyaM

If your static doesn't speak to you outside of FF14 and doesn't have any interest in keeping up with you unless you're planning to do more raiding, then they aren't your friends.

---

It's unhealthy to expect all friends to keep in touch forever long after not having mutual interests or hobbies. A temporary friend is just as valuable as a life-long friend for that moment in your life.