There's too much strawmanning people who criticize the game

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Based on your forum join date, that makes sense. You've only just started playing nine months ago. Even at a rushed pace, you'll have significantly more to do than someone like myself who has been playing since 2015. When I first started, I didn't have any of the primal mounts for months. In fact, I didn't even finish Heavensward until ten months later. Fast forward to now and I've simply caught up on everything to the point where I mostly have only the new patches itself of content to consume. With some exceptions, of course. I still have collected all the Triple Triad cards or maxed out a Chocobo. But I don't feel I should be scrapping the barrel looking for things to engage with because the new patch itself had very little to offer.

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I started playing in HW. I just never got on the forums. I've done all that as well. Maxing the chocobo was one of the first things I did.

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Originally Posted by Adamantini

I just want my hats. After that... I will complain about something else

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I miss wearing helms sobs

It sure would be nice if the developers could just press the "more engaging quality content" button or the "just start the relic weapons" earlier button, but we all know that's not how that works. It's also not really an answer to the question that Vrankyl asked. It's like if you asked someone for a drink and they handed you an empty glass. It's only part of the equation.

What is "engaging quality content," and would it be engaging quality content for just you or for much of the player base? What would "starting the relic weapons earlier" actually entail? How long would an appropriate amount of said "content" take, and how would you balance that content to be doable in a reasonable amount of time by both those who can play 12 hours a day and those who can't even play 12 hours in a week? How would you ensure that it not only was "engaging" but remained of high "quality" for it's duration? How would you ensure that the rewards are appealing to enough people to make the investment in development time and resources worthwhile?

Let's say the developers said "Okay, relic weapons starting on May 5!" and they put out a quick quest that then leads into a grind where you have to do 1000 FATEs in every expansion to advance to the next step. There's your "The relic weapon starts earlier." I'm sure that's not really what anyone would want and, even if they did want that, it would completely freeze out players who had limited playing time (unless they severely nerfed that requirement later on, which would just tick off those who put in the work early).

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Originally Posted by StriderShinryu

It sure would be nice if the developers could just press the "more engaging quality content" button or the "just start the relic weapons" earlier button, but we all know that's not how that works. It's also not really an answer to the question that Vrankyl asked. It's like if you asked someone for a drink and they handed you an empty glass. It's only part of the equation.

What is "engaging quality content," and would it be engaging quality content for just you or for much of the player base? What would "starting the relic weapons earlier" actually entail? How long would an appropriate amount of said "content" take, and how would you balance that content to be doable in a reasonable amount of time by both those who can play 12 hours a day and those who can't even play 12 hours in a week? How would you ensure that it not only was "engaging" but remained of high "quality" for it's duration? How would you ensure that the rewards are appealing to enough people to make the investment in development time and resources worthwhile?

Let's say the developers said "Okay, relic weapons starting on May 5!" and they put out a quick quest that then leads into a grind where you have to do 1000 FATEs in every expansion to advance to the next step. There's your "The relic weapon starts earlier." I'm sure that's not really what anyone would want and, even if they did want that, it would completely freeze out players who had limited playing time (unless they severely nerfed that requirement later on, which would just tick off those who put in the work early).

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Finding a middle ground is not hard at all. People have got to stop using extremities like 1000 FATEs to counter arguments.

Adding a harder difficulty of alliance raids for example, doesn't take much more visual and sound assets, shouldn't take too many battle design manpower, and shouldn't need that much QC. They could make a Baldesion level content for FF14 every odd patch if they just invested a bit more. The game has plenty of content that they could make permutations of.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

Finding a middle ground is not hard at all. People have got to stop using extremities like 1000 FATEs to counter arguments.

Adding a harder difficulty of alliance raids for example, doesn't take much more visual and sound assets, shouldn't take too many battle design manpower, and shouldn't need that much QC. They could make a Baldesion level content for FF14 every odd patch if they just invested a bit more. The game has plenty of content that they could make permutations of.

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It unfortunately does take a lot of time to do what you're asking them to do. Designing a whole area takes time. Designing compelling bosses takes time. Arranging fight timers takes time. As well as balancing out stuff and testing every nook and cranny, even if it's just a glorified corridor, takes time. It also needs a lot of time to decide on all of these things beforehand, as it does require a handful of resources.

For FATEs you literally just designate an area on the map you've done years ago and spawn in some critters.

I do agree they have a lot of content they could make permutations of, and especially if it's like... content they already have that could be repurposed (I thought of Treasure Maps in eureka before bunny fates were a thing). But it needs to be properly thought out.

Edit: Also they did make an alliance raid for the Bozjan relics. It was a mess and it's currently virtually never ran outside of once-in-a-blue-moon PF parties.

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Originally Posted by Adamantini

I just want my hats. After that... I will complain about something else

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I'll just return to being "content but disgruntled with minor things" if they fix hats or give Hrothgar proper attention.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

Finding a middle ground is not hard at all. People have got to stop using extremities like 1000 FATEs to counter arguments.

Adding a harder difficulty of alliance raids for example, doesn't take much more visual and sound assets, shouldn't take too many battle design manpower, and shouldn't need that much QC. They could make a Baldesion level content for FF14 every odd patch if they just invested a bit more. The game has plenty of content that they could make permutations of.

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The harder alliance raids would be the same thing though: content that was great when it was released, then people learn it (so its no longer challenging), and it becomes like everything else.

Finding middle ground isn't easy to do.

How do you create something that makes people *want* to grind it vs making people feel like they are *compelled* to grind it
While I wont say 'that is what killed WoW', it certainly was one of the most consistent criticisms against WoW

My solution would be to look at Everquest's Lost Dungeons of Norrath.
It had my favorite repeatable dungeon system of all time (though not without its flaws)
There were a set number of maps, but objective placement chnaged throughout them.

FFXIV could take it a step further and have bosses with varied move sets so every encounter wasnt the same

Add a degree of the unexpected to things

Deep Dungeons have some of this, but PotD is just a bit too gimmicky. I want a traditional FFXIV experience with some mystery/unknown to it

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

It unfortunately does take a lot of time to do what you're asking them to do. Designing a whole area takes time. Designing compelling bosses takes time. Arranging fight timers takes time. As well as balancing out stuff and testing every nook and cranny, even if it's just a glorified corridor, takes time. It also needs a lot of time to decide on all of these things beforehand, as it does require a handful of resources.

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They literally just need to add an enrage to each fight in an alliance raid, and overlap existing mechanics and join them with current ones. That does not take new graphical or sound assets, and will not require them to design a whole area. It's mostly going to be battle design and QC, but it's not going to require the same amount of effort as making two alliance raids. They already make normal and Savage 8-man raids cheaply by simply removing enrage and mechanics from Savage to make normal raids. They could easily do the same for alliance raids: start off with something Savage level then remove the difficult parts of it to make it normal.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

Finding a middle ground is not hard at all. People have got to stop using extremities like 1000 FATEs to counter arguments.

Adding a harder difficulty of alliance raids for example, doesn't take much more visual and sound assets, shouldn't take too many battle design manpower, and shouldn't need that much QC. They could make a Baldesion level content for FF14 every odd patch if they just invested a bit more. The game has plenty of content that they could make permutations of.

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Oh come now. They can release Baldesion content for every odd patch and yet we don't even get more than a dungeon per patch? Rather than being pie in the sky how about you actually look at the sort of content we regularly receive in the game. DRS was the last time we received anything like an alternate difficulty version of something other than a single fight.

And the reason I say 5000 FATEs is simple. It's not really an exaggeration at all. Bear in mind they did release the Bicolor Gemstone mounts that required 50000 stones per mount (or about 3500 FATEs) and some people had completed that in a week or two.
We're supposedly talking about content that will satisfy players for literal months between patches, right? That's the bar you're setting. So 5000 FATEs is actually a low ball number for something that would keep the most hardcore busy for a few weeks while still being somewhat doable by more casual players.

This is why people who criticize the game are often "strawmanned" as you put it. Because they walk up with complaints and criticisms but rarely any actual, legitimate options or direction. Heck, the best you could do when asked earlier to provide an example of content was just quote someone else (who didn't even answer the question that was asked anyway).

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Originally Posted by StriderShinryu

Oh come now. They can release Baldesion content for every odd patch and yet we don't even get more than a dungeon per patch? Rather than being pie in the sky how about you actually look at the sort of content we regularly receive in the game. DRS was the last time we received anything like an alternate difficulty version of something other than a single fight.

And the reason I say 5000 FATEs is simple. It's not really an exaggeration at all. Bear in mind they did release the Bicolor Gemstone mounts that required 50000 stones per mount (or about 3500 FATEs) and some people had completed that in a week or two.
We're supposedly talking about content that will satisfy players for literal months between patches, right? That's the bar you're setting. So 5000 FATEs is actually a low ball number for something that would keep the most hardcore busy for a few weeks while still being somewhat doable by more casual players.

This is why people who criticize the game are often "strawmanned" as you put it. Because they walk up with complaints and criticisms but rarely any actual, legitimate options or direction. Heck, the best you could do when asked earlier to provide an example of content was just quote someone else (who didn't even answer the question that was asked anyway).

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It's not pie in the sky. It's totally realistic but they just aren't pouring the resources back into this game. This is well known ever since they announced the FF16 project.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

Let me just quote someone:



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And don't forget:





^ Toxicity in full display here. I was fully expecting the very strawmanning and toxicity that I described in OP to happen in this thread once again but it is still disappointing.

Please continue barking though.

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right, i'm soooo toxic because we've given you the answer again and again, but you ignore it and continue on with your tirade. The game's content is not built to hold your attention for the 4 month span between patches, you have been actively encouraged by the developers to take a break and play something else while you wait for a new patch and new content to come out. Here's an idea, instead of complaining about the lack of content, why don't you try suggesting things they could add that would increase your enjoyment, and no, i'm not digging through your post history to find something you can easily provide.

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Originally Posted by Jason_Ashford

right, i'm soooo toxic because we've given you the answer again and again, but you ignore it and continue on with your tirade. The game's content is not built to hold your attention for the 4 month span between patches, you have been actively encouraged by the developers to take a break and play something else while you wait for a new patch and new content to come out. Here's an idea, instead of complaining about the lack of content, why don't you try suggesting things they could add that would increase your enjoyment, and no, i'm not digging through your post history to find something you can easily provide.

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Why would you even come into these threads though? If you can't handle criticisms just don't enter these threads? Coming into threads that criticize the game to defend Square Enix is just weird, when it literally doesn't affect you in any meaningful way unless you make this game part of your identity.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

Why would you even come into these threads though? If you can't handle criticisms just don't enter these threads? Coming into threads that criticize the game to defend Square Enix is just weird, when it literally doesn't affect you in any meaningful way unless you make this game part of your identity.

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Funny how people complain they get dismissed when criticizing the game but wind up doing the same thing when others come to offer their opinions and you tell them to "leave". Grow a spine.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

Why would you even come into these threads though? If you can't handle criticisms just don't enter these threads? Coming into threads that criticize the game to defend Square Enix is just weird, when it literally doesn't affect you in any meaningful way unless you make this game part of your identity.

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Not every criticism is warranted, Skiros, that's the thing. You'll always find something to nitpick in every game, what really matters is the intensity of the impact they have in the long run. The game itself does have quite a lot to it as it is. And while I agree Square could do with some well-deserved creativity for once, not everything seems to be within their purview or methods at the moment, and it's not like we have a full-on lack of content.

We don't have new content. But it doesn't mean that what we have now is unsatisfactory. They seem to be going back to older stuff to make them presentable. If we keep adding more and more without addressing older stuff as they are now, we'll risk being left with more "beta"-style content. Quality is just as important as quantity.

I too have my grievances with the game and the dev team, as well as with the community. Just peer into any thread here with "Hrothgar" in the title. But it doesn't mean that the game is on its way down a cliff. I understand your concerns with content not being given on a regular basis, but it doesn't hurt to be a bit realistic. And keep in mind, sure, the game you like, Lost Ark, maybe has a lot of content and constant attention because it can afford to do so. Square Enix has already made it clear that the Business Division 3 studio isn't the sort to only focus on its one IP. Even if said IP is popular. Making Hrothgar hair is simple if time-consuming (and Hrothgar have known this and have been patient for 3 years). Making a bunch of content every patch is a few steps above that and there's no guarantee they can always focus on the game to deliver it.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Not every criticism is warranted, Skiros, that's the thing. You'll always find something to nitpick in every game, what really matters is the intensity of the impact they have in the long run. The game itself does have quite a lot to it as it is. And while I agree Square could do with some well-deserved creativity for once, not everything seems to be within their purview or methods at the moment, and it's not like we have a full-on lack of content.

We don't have new content. But it doesn't mean that what we have now is unsatisfactory. They seem to be going back to older stuff to make them presentable. If we keep adding more and more without addressing older stuff as they are now, we'll risk being left with more "beta"-style content. Quality is just as important as quantity.

I too have my grievances with the game and the dev team, as well as with the community. Just peer into any thread here with "Hrothgar" in the title. But it doesn't mean that the game is on its way down a cliff. I understand your concerns with content not being given on a regular basis, but it doesn't hurt to be a bit realistic. And keep in mind, sure, the game you like, Lost Ark, maybe has a lot of content and constant attention because it can afford to do so. Square Enix has already made it clear that the Business Division 3 studio isn't the sort to only focus on its one IP. Even if said IP is popular. Making Hrothgar hair is simple if time-consuming (and Hrothgar have known this and have been patient for 3 years). Making a bunch of content every patch is a few steps above that and there's no guarantee they can always focus on the game to deliver it.

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Square Enix should do nothing to improve Hrothgar hairstyles because I do not care about them. The intensity of the impact that Hrothgar hairstyles have is minimal in the long run. The Hrothgar hairstyles you have right now is not unsatisfactory. It doesn't hurt to be a bit realistic to stop asking for better Hrothgar hairstyles. Making Hrothgar hairstyles is draining dev resources and there's no guarantee they can always focus on the game to deliver it. If you don't like Hrothgar hairstyles please quit the game. Not every criticism is warranted.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

Square Enix should do nothing to improve Hrothgar hairstyles because I do not care about them. The intensity of the impact that Hrothgar hairstyles have is minimal in the long run. The Hrothgar hairstyles you have right now is not unsatisfactory. It doesn't hurt to be a bit realistic to stop asking for better Hrothgar hairstyles. Making Hrothgar hairstyles is draining dev resources and there's no guarantee they can always focus on the game to deliver it. If you don't like Hrothgar hairstyles please quit the game.

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You keep complaining about the game. Go on. Don't preach what you yourself can't do.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

Square Enix should do nothing to improve Hrothgar hairstyles because I do not care about them.

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First they came for the cat dads, and I did not speak out, because I was not a cat dad.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

So here's why I don't understand the "content drought". I don't do savage or extreme when they are current. I haven't even farmed for the ShB mounts yet. I still have plenty of content to keep me busy every time I log in. I really don't get that things aren't lasting. There's so much....

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I assume you started recently. Which yeah... you have 5 expansions of content to do. Many of us didn't, so we have nothing to do.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

It's not pie in the sky. It's totally realistic but they just aren't pouring the resources back into this game. This is well known ever since they announced the FF16 project.

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Pretty much. They are sitting pretty, because people have become used to it. It's like I was saying before today in the viera and hrothgar thread, they most likely don't want to set a precedent of players expecting higher quality, or a faster content release cadence. It already came to bite them with Ultimates. Best to set the playerbase's expectations low.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

Stop assuming that just because someone criticizes that the game lacks content, they only stick to one type of content and don't do anything else.

Stop assuming that just because someone criticizes that the game lacks content, they want tedious dailies and weeklies to artificially inflate the game time.

Stop assuming that just because someone criticizes job design, they want everything to be Heavensward levels of clunkiness.

Why are some people so quick to assume that anyone who criticizes the game fits some X stereotype? You must really lack imagination if you can't believe someone can think that the game lacks content even when they play at a casual pace and try out all kinds of different content. You must really lack imagination if you can't believe someone can think that jobs like SMN have become braindead without being an elitist tryhard. You must really lack imagination if you can't believe someone that wishes there is more to do in the game also does not want grinds that serve no purpose.

Here is the reason why these people strawman those who criticize the game: because it's far easier to dismiss criticisms when you just assume that the problem lies with the individual and not the game.

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Why are you complaining about complaining?

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

I assume you started recently. Which yeah... you have 5 expansions of content to do. Many of us didn't, so we have nothing to do.

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It must be nice to be such a gigachad and have completed every single little thing this game offers.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

It must be nice to be such a gigachad and have completed every single little thing this game offers.

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I know right? The guy must have already cleared DSR within the week...

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Originally Posted by Skiros

Why would you even come into these threads though? If you can't handle criticisms just don't enter these threads? Coming into threads that criticize the game to defend Square Enix is just weird, when it literally doesn't affect you in any meaningful way unless you make this game part of your identity.

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Pot, meet kettle. It is almost comical, the sheer amount of irony and hypocrisy in this statement. I have never once given you crap for being critical of the game, i have stated again and again the reason why the developers are not adding more time-gated and grindy content. The problem is that you don't seem to want to engage with anyone who disagrees with your point of view and have outright dismissed several valid arguments against your threads because they weren't what you wanted to hear, and then make another thread about how we are "Straw-manning" you.

I'm almost convinced you're just a troll at this point because you haven't offered any actual constructive criticism, all you've done is nonsensically complain about the 'lack of content' and call anything that disagrees a strawman argument.

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Originally Posted by Lunalepsy

Why are you complaining about complaining?

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because he doesn't like that people are disagreeing with him and instead of going into detail about why he feels the game doesnt have enough content, and what could be done to improve it, he would rather make a new thread complaining about all the people "straw-manning" him.

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Originally Posted by Jason_Ashford

because he doesn't like that people are disagreeing with him and instead of going into detail about why he feels the game doesnt have enough content, and what could be done to improve it, he would rather make a new thread complaining about all the people "straw-manning" him.

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The explanation was already provided pages ago?

You are quite literally the quintessential strawmanner that people are talking about in this thread. No matter how many times you repeat your insinuations, they are still wrong.

I've already provided explanations, and the best you guys could do so far is "my complaint is more important than yours so shut up".

Lol?

@Skiros
"There's too much straw-manning!"
Proceeds to straw-man basically every response.
It really comes off as you call anything that disagrees with you an attempt at straw-manning you. And no, that's not me trying to straw-man you. That's genuinely what this conversation feels like.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

I assume you started recently. Which yeah... you have 5 expansions of content to do. Many of us didn't, so we have nothing to do.

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Try again. I've been playing for 7 years.

The forums are made for discussions, sharing of opinions, recommendations and alike.

If you're going to limit, how people can respond and take away valid points people have made, and label them as, "Strawmanning." Then you're not posting to have a discussion about your topic(s) but to garner support by people who share your view and your view alone A.K.A living in an Echo Chamber.

I would disagree with the lack of content to be done, and more with the likely case that there is content you're choosing not to do. Either it be content you're genuinely not interested in, or content you don't consider to be, "Content." because it doesn't match up with your idea of what true content should be.

I would tend to agree with others, who have called you out for being a Troll. Due to your poor attitude, obvious bating out of responses, and self-victimizing yourself to get whatever sympathy you can get to, "Support." your self induced plight.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

Square Enix should do nothing to improve Hrothgar hairstyles because I do not care about them. The intensity of the impact that Hrothgar hairstyles have is minimal in the long run. The Hrothgar hairstyles you have right now is not unsatisfactory. It doesn't hurt to be a bit realistic to stop asking for better Hrothgar hairstyles. Making Hrothgar hairstyles is draining dev resources and there's no guarantee they can always focus on the game to deliver it. If you don't like Hrothgar hairstyles please quit the game. Not every criticism is warranted.

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Not that I disagree with your point. They should rework Hrothgar entirely as opposed to endlessly patching in hairstyles because of a broken race. But I'll let you try and use some self-awareness to try and figure out why the emboldened text is hypocritical coming from you.

Edit: Especially when one of your criticisms of the game has had you critiquing the character creation.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

Stop assuming that just because someone criticizes that the game lacks content, they only stick to one type of content and don't do anything else.

Stop assuming that just because someone criticizes that the game lacks content, they want tedious dailies and weeklies to artificially inflate the game time.

Stop assuming that just because someone criticizes job design, they want everything to be Heavensward levels of clunkiness.

Why are some people so quick to assume that anyone who criticizes the game fits some X stereotype? You must really lack imagination if you can't believe someone can think that the game lacks content even when they play at a casual pace and try out all kinds of different content. You must really lack imagination if you can't believe someone can think that jobs like SMN have become braindead without being an elitist tryhard. You must really lack imagination if you can't believe someone that wishes there is more to do in the game also does not want grinds that serve no purpose.

Here is the reason why these people strawman those who criticize the game: because it's far easier to dismiss criticisms when you just assume that the problem lies with the individual and not the game.

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Because the game doesn't lack content.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Because the game doesn't lack content.

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I daresay it does, especially for those of us who are all caught up with the latest patch and want something other than a lengthy, tedious grind or battle with RNG to engage with. More content that can be jumped into immediately at any time like Crystalline Conflict would be wonderful as far as I'm concerned.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I daresay it does, especially for those of us who are all caught up with the latest patch and want something other than a lengthy, tedious grind or battle with RNG to engage with. More content that can be jumped into immediately at any time like Crystalline Conflict would be wonderful as far as I'm concerned.

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But CC IS a lengthy, tedious grind.

You could hop into Eurkeka, Bozja at any time, just like CC.

The only lasting content I know of from any MMO was PvP (because people are weird) and stuff with low drop rates and RNG which required months/years of investment to complete. Which is apparently not what you want.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

But CC IS a lengthy, tedious grind.

You could hop into Eurkeka, Bozja at any time, just like CC.

The only lasting content I know of from any MMO was PvP (because people are weird) and stuff with low drop rates and RNG which required months/years of investment to complete. Which is apparently not what you want.

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I disagree with it being a tedious grind on the basis of each match being a unique experience and lasting anywhere from two to five minutes per round. If I get bored of playing a particular job, I can switch to something else with further changes the dynamic. Some days I might be in the mood to approach it as a ranged DPS and carefully pick off enemies from afar. Other days I might be feeling particularly bold and jump into close quarters as a melee DPS.

What I'm getting at is the game mode is designed to be flexible and interesting enough to avoid the intense repetition that is present elsewhere when it comes to 'content'. Sure, I could go and complete one of the achievements based around gathering resources in the Diadem but even if I split it up into manageable chunks...it doesn't change at all and just revolves around hitting up a gathering node again and again and again.

[zeroes in and flaps around in your hair aggressively shrieking]

What do you mean you want me off of you?! Stop having such a victim complex, lmao!

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I disagree with it being a tedious grind on the basis of each match being a unique experience and lasting anywhere from two to five minutes per round. If I get bored of playing a particular job, I can switch to something else with further changes the dynamic. Some days I might be in the mood to approach it as a ranged DPS and carefully pick off enemies from afar. Other days I might be feeling particularly bold and jump into close quarters as a melee DPS.

What I'm getting at is the game mode is designed to be flexible and interesting enough to avoid the intense repetition that is present elsewhere when it comes to 'content'. Sure, I could go and complete one of the achievements based around gathering resources in the Diadem but even if I split it up into manageable chunks...it doesn't change at all and just revolves around hitting up a gathering node again and again and again.

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I see your point here, but it basically boils down to "grind is subjective". I know plenty of people that hate pvp and consider anything around it a grind but love gathering and to them it's never a grind.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I disagree with it being a tedious grind on the basis of each match being a unique experience and lasting anywhere from two to five minutes per round. If I get bored of playing a particular job, I can switch to something else with further changes the dynamic. Some days I might be in the mood to approach it as a ranged DPS and carefully pick off enemies from afar. Other days I might be feeling particularly bold and jump into close quarters as a melee DPS.

What I'm getting at is the game mode is designed to be flexible and interesting enough to avoid the intense repetition that is present elsewhere when it comes to 'content'. Sure, I could go and complete one of the achievements based around gathering resources in the Diadem but even if I split it up into manageable chunks...it doesn't change at all and just revolves around hitting up a gathering node again and again and again.

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But you could say that about any PvP mode, and only because it involves fighting people. Is that REALLY content the game presents? Thats more player interaction than game content.

I detest PvP so anything involving it is a terrible, boring grind to me.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

I see your point here, but it basically boils down to "grind is subjective". I know plenty of people that hate pvp and consider anything around it a grind but love gathering and to them it's never a grind.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

But you could say that about any PvP mode, and only because it involves fighting people. Is that REALLY content the game presents? Thats more player interaction than game content.

I detest PvP so anything involving it is a terrible, boring grind to me.

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PvP isn't everybody's cup of tea. No piece of content is. That doesn't change the simple fact that PvP is dynamic in a way that scripted content rarely is.

As such, it'd be neat if we started getting more dynamic content that is added in the early rather than later stages of a new expansion. On the PvE front, that means more things like treasure map dungeons and Palace of the Dead/Heaven on High.

That aside, people are already walking around in the new PvP gear locked behind series malmstones. So I daresay the 'grind' aspect isn't nearly as tedious as the likes of the dinosaur mount locked behind Diadem. Even someone who enjoys gathering and crafting is going to struggle to acquire something like that whereas they'd get the PvP gear far sooner and far more easily by comparison.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

PvP isn't everybody's cup of tea. No piece of content is. That doesn't change the simple fact that PvP is dynamic in a way that scripted content rarely is.

As such, it'd be neat if we started getting more dynamic content that is added in the early rather than later stages of a new expansion. On the PvE front, that means more things like treasure map dungeons and Palace of the Dead/Heaven on High.

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I understand wanting something sooner, but that stuff does require dev time. They can't just snap their fingers and have it appear. Also it wouldn't change the fact that others would still find that kind content boring or grindy.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

The game just isn't lacking content...
You should try and play some other MMO's and you'll see that it in fact doesn't.

Both SHB and EW were massive successes and while Covid did push them back we have a very bright future ahead and the devs have been very open about what's coming.
FFXIV is however designed to not force you to login every day and I think a lot of people are used to this in gaming nowadays with games being a second job.
That doesn't mean that FFXIV is lacking content however.



You're taking this way too literally.
A lot of what's going on here on these forums isn't actually very useful it's just screeching and people having no clue about how game dev works or what the issue even is.

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They haven’t been open about it. Outside of when first revealed, they’ve been basically dead silent on Island sanctuary outside of temper your expectations. Job design they haven’t been communicative on or explaining why they made changes. We never really got a reason as to why deep dungeons and allied beast tribe quests were cut in ShB.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

A lot of what's going on here on these forums isn't actually very useful it's just screeching and people having no clue about how game dev works or what the issue even is.

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How is this different to any other industry? It is the business's job to go through that feedback and extract what it can act upon, and find out what it's customers are saying and why. Not the job of self-appointed forum gatekeepers to try determine what is or isn't a valid complaint - those are best off being ignored.

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Originally Posted by Xirean

I understand wanting something sooner, but that stuff does require dev time. They can't just snap their fingers and have it appear. Also it wouldn't change the fact that others would still find that kind content boring or grindy.

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At least it would be them trying to make lasting content. This game has a severe lack of things to do between patches, and, no, achievement hunting (with laughable "rewards") is not lasting content.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

At least it would be them trying to make lasting content. This game has a severe lack of things to do between patches, and, no, achievement hunting (with laughable "rewards") is not lasting content.

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This statement is severely subjective. Im sorry. Ive have friends and other people, including myself busying with other things in the meantime.