I'm back from Lost Ark

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

So instead of being the bigger people y’all resort to insulting another game and it’s devs? So much for the great community i guess :p

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We're addicted to the violence, what can we say?

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I just find it funny how quickly people are to say “go play another game” or echo yoshi’s sentiment of playing other games, yet when people make posts talking about playing said other games, many posters feel the need to bash those games. Maybe you should listen to your godly developer and be respectful of other games? No one’s saying you have to like the game but if you’re going to continuously bash it, then be prepared for some criticism abou 14 as well. What’s funny is a lot of the posters i see here bashing lost ark are the same posters who get hyper offended if you mention anything is wrong with 14.

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The issue is that a certain poster here is clearly instigating drama with their "lost ark good, FF bad" threads and this is why you see people get uppity with the discussion. Not because they're playing other MMOs and sharing their genuine experiences and how this game can improve.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

Lost Ark combat is way more fun than FF14 because unlike FF14 they did not dumb down jobs. FF14 is carried by its encounters. If FF14 didn't have good encounter design it'll be a supremely boring game.

#facts #truth #facts and logic

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Feel free to leave again :) Lost ark was the most trash MMO I've ever experienced

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

People did the math and it absolutely is unless you want to grind for years.

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That said, even I had the ability to enter the dreaded Tier 3 without spending money and I've even amassed a decent amount of cash shop currency by casually working the marketplace (you can sell honing materials to people for gold, and then trade gold for crystals). There's also a lot of horizontal progression in the game, which makes getting to the tippy-topiest of endgames unnecessary to have fun (it's why I've been selling most, if not all of my materials). The grind isn't absolutely as necessary as people believe.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

The issue is that a certain poster here is clearly instigating drama with their "lost ark good, FF bad" threads and this is why you see people get uppity with the discussion. Not because they're playing other MMOs and sharing their genuine experiences and how this game can improve.

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Which i get that, don’t feed the trolls. You can critique the poster themselves without needlessly bashing the game though. Many people like the game and even my bias for 14 aside, i do think there are some nice elements that could be taken from lost ark to 14. But seeing people just going “omg that game trash, omg it sucks so much” when meanwhile, these same people are the ones who get personally offended when you critique 14 in any way shape or form.

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Originally Posted by Payadopa

People did the math and it absolutely is unless you want to grind for years.

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What math? What content? What videos are you all even watching? You don't even have to log into your characters everyday, and still progress. The "grind" is literally 2 chaos dungeons a day, maybe 2 guardians if you feel like it, your weekly abbysal and/or argos and that's it. I can finish up everything I need to do and still progress on my sorceress in about an hour everyday - and that is me taking my time.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It isn't really 'pay to win'. I tried it out a month after launch, didn't spend a single bit of money on the store and still managed to catch up easily enough between the items I gained naturally and the generous rewards offered through the login bonuses/special events.

With Square Enix flirting with NFT's and selling dolls of comfort characters for £1000 I also find it strange to bash one game for optional purchases but ignore the other. Even if you want to go 'well it's just cosmetics' and ignore stuff like emotes and minions being tied to merchandise, to get extra inventory space in FFXIV you need to pay extra each month.

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It is sorta P2W if you want to do the highest level raid content on day 1. It's like having a Savage difficulty raid and an Ultimate difficulty raid and most F2P players would only be able to get to Savage naturally, do Savage for a month then move on to Ultimate. For example Valtan normal (1415) vs Valtan hard (1445). Most players would be able to get to 1415 naturally but 1445 is HC F2P / moderate whale ($300) territory if you want to do it on day 1.

Same goes for Abrelshud. Phase 1-2 (1490) will be available to most people easily on release, but Phase 5-6 (1530 if I'm not wrong) will require whaling to get to on day 1, but people should be able to get there within a month.

In that sense FF14 is a superior raiding game if you care about doing content fast. I have paid $13 in FF14 to be able to do DSR on day 1. To do the equivalent in Lost Ark would require $300 or $1000 or something like that.

Another thing I dislike about Lost Ark: the playerbase is obsessed with using ilvl or roster lv as a status symbol. People look down on those who have lower ilvl or roster lv. But both of those things either mean you no-lifed the game or that you whaled. Neither indicate skill. People might not like it but at least FF14 Ultimates allow you to actually prove your skill to randos. Hell mode (which is actual equalized raiding content) isn't coming out in Lost Ark for a long time so everything in Lost Ark right now can be cleared by just whaling. I do not like how so many people in Lost Ark trash on other people's ilvl or engravings as if that means they're a worse player. Hopefully hell mode comes out soon so that people can start comparing their epeens with something that requires skill.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I just don't see much point in pretending as if FFXIV is some perfect angel on that front,

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We visit the same Forums Correct? Nobody thinks FFXIV is Some Perfect Angel on ANY Front

I came back from Doom Eternal.

Wow that combat....is NOTHING like FFXIV.

Cause it's a different game. so...

I came back from Gran Turismo 7, and wow FFXIV needs to take a page from a driving sim so it caters to everyone.

Sheesh

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Originally Posted by Skiros

...

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People will still care about ilvl and roster level regardless of the equalized mode. Equalized mode means engravings, min-maxed stats, and high level gems matter more. Right now you can get away with 3/3/3 (3/3+ in reality) Engravings, heck I never even bothered to fully min-max my accessories otherwise I'd have 3/3/3/3. I just don't want to spend the gold. Argos is brain dead content anyway. The problem with Final Fantasy being a "superior" raiding game, is that the content is so few and far between. If FFXIV released high end content more often, I could get behind this argument more.

Man I just got back from Elden Ring! *points with thumb in direction of great game*

....FFXIV ... seriously.... please add dodge roll...

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

I came back from Gran Turismo 7, and wow FFXIV needs to take a page from a driving sim so it caters to everyone.

Sheesh

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I mean, we do have the Regalia. Urianger also got a driver's license while in the First.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

People will still care about ilvl and roster level regardless of the equalized mode. Equalized mode means engravings, min-maxed stats matter more, and high level gems matter more. Right now you can get away with 3/3/3 (3/3+ in reality) Engravings, heck I never even bothered to fully min-max my accessories otherwise I'd have 3/3/3/3. I just don't want to spend the gold. Argos is brain dead content anyway. The problem with Final Fantasy being a "superior" raiding game, is that the content is so few and far between. If FFXIV released high end content more often, I could get behind this argument more.

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True. FF14 has the best setup for raiders IMO, but there are also only 13-14 fights every 2.5 years. And most raiders would only really be challenged by the last two floors of Savage these days so that's like 7-8 challenges every 2.5 years.

Skiros should make a twitter and collect a follower base.

I could do this all day.....

Never played lost ark...and to be honest it could be fun?

But I ACTUALLY thought it was Diablo 3 at first glance when I saw someone playing it on Youtube.

Sounds .... meh tbh...but that's my opinion. That and I can't physically stomach games that make pay for BiS with pay to win models. *truth*

I'm not discounting the gameplay...but it's a game I have played a million times...

Diablo 2 over 3000+ hours And the resurrected Diablo 2 is an astoundingly faithful remaster. Even some of the same bugs that the 2000 version had. Like riding a bike you never forget. Had a blast with it.

Diablo 3 over 500 hours. This is basically Lost Ark imo. SOOOO....I have feel this scratches that itch. I literally have 12 Barbarian builds, 8 necro builds, 5 monk builds. As boring as the game is to play...it's incredibly deep with builds and gear.

Dungeon Siege 1,2,3. (Sadly admitting)
Titan Quest.
Dragon Age 1,2 and Inquisition (tactical view). Albeit slower combat, but still great gameplay. 2 was shite.

They're all the same....isometric action games are great....but they are a dime a dozen. Lost ark being free is where it loses me. Any "free" to play game ALWAYS has something to keep the player hooked, and nickel and dime them with worthless digital gear that offers ZERO benefit besides "this piece of gear is .9% stronger then my last piece of gear"

*yawn*

Modern Gaming sucks.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

I mean, we do have the Regalia. Urianger also got a driver's license while in the First.

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As one does.... Forsooth

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Originally Posted by Nav_Fae

Skiros should make a twitter and collect a follower base.

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I would much rather avoid the Twitter userbase.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

True. FF14 has the best setup for raiders IMO, but there are also only 13-14 fights every 2.5 years. And most raiders would only really be challenged by the last two floors of Savage these days so that's like 7-8 challenges every 2.5 years.

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And yet....after 10 years of FFXIV...I'm still completing old content. Still finding new things to do. New things to get lost in. New people do them with.

Crystaline Conflict stole literally 9 hours of my life the first 3 days. I was hooked... Total amount of dollars invested.... $15 a month
Bozja with a fully fleshed out story, completely new progression system, rank system, relic weapon to earn, and also great alt leveling area that's fun. ..... $15 a month
Savage Tiered encounters that offer a real challenge every 6-9 months, and could take around 5 months to complete depending on your prog complete with gear, mounts, titles, achievements ...... $15 a month.
Ultimates that are incredibly involved.... $15 a month
Gold Saucer....
Chocobo racing....
Tetra Master....
Housing.... (dodges brick)
Glamour....
A real Story that spans 10 years....
Extremes that also have a fully fleshed out story....
Music....the FREAKING MUSIC....
Hildebrand.....
Heaven on high, palace of the dead.....
Maps and portal dungeons....
Seasonal events....
Unreals....
Alliance Raids with fleshed out stories....
Fast frenetic combat at high level....
Sightseeing...
Challenge log....
Achievements....
Eureka....


I'm starting to think $15 a month isn't enough....

But you get the idea.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

True. FF14 has the best setup for raiders IMO, but there are also only 13-14 fights every 2.5 years. And most raiders would only really be challenged by the last two floors of Savage these days so that's like 7-8 challenges every 2.5 years.

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P3S....get your weekly re-clear and then you might re-phrase that.

I played Lost Ark for a bit (concurrently with FFXIV) because friends were playing and had fun with it for a while before I got bored with the honing process/lack of glamour/many other features I really love in FFXIV. My biggest take away from LA is that I would love if FFXIV in the future implemented a giant zone with tons of little islands for us to explore on our own little customizable/upgradable ships - a bigger better Ruby Sea with boats? I really wanna be a pirate bunny.

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

And yet....after 10 years of FFXIV...I'm still completing old content. Still finding new things to do. New things to get lost in. New people do them with.

Crystaline Conflict stole literally 9 hours of my life the first 3 days. I was hooked... Total amount of dollars invested.... $15 a month
Bozja with a fully fleshed out story, completely new progression system, rank system, relic weapon to earn, and also great alt leveling area that's fun. ..... $15 a month
Savage Tiered encounters that offer a real challenge every 6-9 months, and could take around 5 months to complete depending on your prog complete with gear, mounts, titles, achievements ...... $15 a month.
Ultimates that are incredibly involved.... $15 a month
Gold Saucer....
Chocobo racing....
Tetra Master....
Housing.... (dodges brick)
Glamour....
A real Story that spans 10 years....
Extremes that also have a fully fleshed out story....
Music....the FREAKING MUSIC....
Hildebrand.....
Heaven on high, palace of the dead.....
Maps and portal dungeons....
Seasonal events....
Unreals....
Alliance Raids with fleshed out stories....
Fast frenetic combat at high level....
Sightseeing...
Challenge log....
Achievements....
Eureka....


I'm starting to think $15 a month isn't enough....

But you get the idea.

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Bozja fully fleshed out story? You have to be kidding lmao. Even the writer for that story knew it wasn’t fully fleshed out. They literally left it on a cliff hanger and then said that’s the end of the story enjoy. The actual ending is hidden behind cliff notes. 90% of what you mention is subjective regardless anyways.Chocobo racing hasn’t received an update in years. The card game is called triple triad not tetra master…. Unreal trials are literally arr trials with more hp and do more damage.

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

And yet....after 10 years of FFXIV...I'm still completing old content. Still finding new things to do. New things to get lost in. New people do them with.

Crystaline Conflict stole literally 9 hours of my life the first 3 days. I was hooked... Total amount of dollars invested.... $15 a month
Bozja with a fully fleshed out story, completely new progression system, rank system, relic weapon to earn, and also great alt leveling area that's fun. ..... $15 a month
Savage Tiered encounters that offer a real challenge every 6-9 months, and could take around 5 months to complete depending on your prog complete with gear, mounts, titles, achievements ...... $15 a month.
Ultimates that are incredibly involved.... $15 a month
Gold Saucer....
Chocobo racing....
Tetra Master....
Housing.... (dodges brick)
Glamour....
A real Story that spans 10 years....
Extremes that also have a fully fleshed out story....
Music....the FREAKING MUSIC....
Hildebrand.....
Heaven on high, palace of the dead.....
Maps and portal dungeons....
Seasonal events....
Unreals....
Alliance Raids with fleshed out stories....
Fast frenetic combat at high level....
Sightseeing...
Challenge log....
Achievements....
Eureka....


I'm starting to think $15 a month isn't enough....

But you get the idea.

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https://i.ibb.co/f169WGm/Capture.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/M9QwxPM/Capture.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/bFQJ8xT/Capture.jpg

Done it all already.

Reason why I can't rly get into Lost Ark is the same as with BDO, it's too time consuming.
Imo I think FFXIV isn't time consuming enough once you've cleared the content and are just doing your weekly clears, I basically clear it in one sitting and wish I had more altho when the Savage tier is unlocked it'll be easier to find groups and just run for fun and to gear alts/ glam etc.

But I'd rather take how FFXIV is than how Lost Ark works, even with WoW it's too much for me nowadays.
Lost Ark just feels like a game that expects you to ONLY play Lost Ark, while FFXIV leaves room to play other games.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Reason why I can't rly get into Lost Ark is the same as with BDO, it's too time consuming.
Imo I think FFXIV isn't time consuming enough once you've cleared the content and are just doing your weekly clears, I basically clear it in one sitting and wish I had more altho when the Savage tier is unlocked it'll be easier to find groups and just run for fun and to gear alts/ glam etc.

But I'd rather take how FFXIV is than how Lost Ark works, even with WoW it's too much for me nowadays.
Lost Ark just feels like a game that expects you to ONLY play Lost Ark, while FFXIV leaves room to play other games.

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How long does it take someone to get to endgame from start to finish in FFXIV? I mean from ARR to EW. Lost Ark does NOT expect you to play only Lost Ark. With it's rested exp, it allows for players to literally skip several days, even a week, and not fall behind. It routinely gives out power pass skips (for free), so you can get alt characters ready to go. A 960 pass was given out for free last week. You have to pay SE what.. $25 to boost an alt job?

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Reason why I can't rly get into Lost Ark is the same as with BDO, it's too time consuming.
Imo I think FFXIV isn't time consuming enough once you've cleared the content and are just doing your weekly clears, I basically clear it in one sitting and wish I had more altho when the Savage tier is unlocked it'll be easier to find groups and just run for fun and to gear alts/ glam etc.

But I'd rather take how FFXIV is than how Lost Ark works, even with WoW it's too much for me nowadays.
Lost Ark just feels like a game that expects you to ONLY play Lost Ark, while FFXIV leaves room to play other games.

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True, but there should be more to do in FF14. Pushing all the casual content to like 6.2/6.3 (like Island Sanctuary, Criterion Dungeon, relics) just feels bad.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

How long does it take someone to get to endgame from start to finish in FFXIV? I mean from ARR to EW. Lost Ark does NOT expect you to play only Lost Ark. With it's rested exp, it allows for players to literally skip several days, even a week, and not fall behind. It routinely gives out power pass skips (for free), so you can get alt characters ready to go. A 960 pass was given out for free last week. You have to pay SE what.. $25 to boost an alt job?

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ARR to EW is more like a singleplayer RPG for the most part tho, I was mainly talking about the endgame and actually doing all of it and staying up to date with it.

Edit: You can also buy power in Lost Ark while you can't in FFXIV.
They give you boosts to get you to quicker spend money on the game because max level is where that's going to happen.
I don't think it's because they're just feeling generous.

So how much money did you dump?

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Originally Posted by Skiros

True, but there should be more to do in FF14. Pushing all the casual content to like 6.2/6.3 (like Island Sanctuary, Criterion Dungeon, relics) just feels bad.

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Even the casual grinds, like islands, don't feel as bad as some of the grinds in this game.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

ARR to EW is more like a singleplayer RPG for the most part tho, I was mainly talking about the endgame and actually doing all of it and staying up to date with it.

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Once you are at endgame, you can get your dailies and even your weeklies done on reset in a matter of a couple hours. Dailies alone you can get done in half an hour on your main. If you play alts, just add 15-30 minutes of dailies each IF you do that everyday, otherwise you can just not play your alts for days to stack up rested exp. A lot of people just let their alts stack rested exp and do the dailies then. You can save bitfrosts at locations in the world to finish up the Una's task dailies in that game in a matter of minutes as well.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

How long does it take someone to get to endgame from start to finish in FFXIV. I mean from ARR to EW? Lost Ark does NOT expect you to play only Lost Ark. With it's rested exp, it allows for players to literally skip several days, even a week, and not fall behind.

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It's all about self restraint in my eyes. Pacing, too, I suppose.

I play both ESO and Lost Ark on the side when the mood strikes me and neither threaten to rid me of my character's home if I decide to take a break. Unlike with FFXIV - and I highly doubt that I'd get another mansion if I let mine get demolished in FFXIV.

Nor would I want to play the game if I lacked access to a house since it's a huge part of the game in itself.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Once you are at endgame, you can get your dailies and even your weeklies done on reset in a matter of a couple hours. Dailies alone you can get done in half an hour on your main. If you play alts, just add 15-30 minutes of dailies each IF you do that everyday, otherwise you can just not play your alts for days to stack up rested exp.

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Honestly that's a lot for dailies alone, and actually doing the raid content is an enormous ladder that lets be real here ties into the irl cash shop.
Would you not say that getting geared and actually involved in raiding in Lost Ark is SIGNIFICANTLY more time-consuming + has RNG elements tied to the shop too?
Alts are also a pretty big deal in Lost Ark, obviously the MSQ especially from the start in FFXIV is going to be a huge time investement but I view that as a separate thing because it's not really part of the endgame.
In FFXIV I can just buy the crafted gear off the market board and be ready to go and it's not even expensive.

If you actually want to do the hardest endgame content then there's some pretty huge walls you'll run into in Lost Ark that are incredibly time consuming and full of whales.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Honestly that's a lot for dailies alone, and actually doing the raid content is an enormous ladder that lets be real here ties into the irl cash shop.
Would you not say that getting geared and actually involved in raiding in Lost Ark is SIGNIFICANTLY more time-consuming + has RNG elements tied to the shop too?
Alts are also a pretty big deal in Lost Ark, obviously the MSQ especially from the start in FFXIV is going to be a huge time investement but I view that as a separate thing because it's not really part of the endgame.
In FFXIV I can just buy the crafted gear off the market board and be ready to go and it's not even expensive.

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No. It's more time consuming to get endgame gear in FFXIV. I am locked out every week, I can't finish my tomestone gear for weeks, it takes even more weeks on top of that get a weapon. I haven't even finished my tomestone set on white mage. God forbid I try gearing my Red Mage or Tank.. I don't do savage, but that apparently has an rng element too on top of it all.

You don't need to be 1490 in Lost Ark right now. It is completely unnecessary, and significantly more expensive (whether you are spending real money, or gold+mats) right now than it will be if players just waited until more content is released where ilvl being that high actually matters.

If that's a lot for dailies. Let's think about how long it takes to do your savage reclears every week, how long does it take for you to cap out your tomes every week. To do your weekly 24-man. How long does that all collectively take in any given week?

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

No. It's more time consuming to get endgame gear in FFXIV. I am locked out every week, I can't finish my tomestone gear for weeks, it takes even more weeks on top of that get a weapon. I haven't even finished my tomestone set on white mage. God forbid I try gearing my Red Mage or Tank.. I don't do savage, but that apparently has an rng element too on top of it all.

You don't need to be 1490 in Lost Ark right now. It is completely unnecessary, and significantly more expensive (whether you are spending real money, or gold+mats) right now than it will be if players just waited until more content is released where ilvl being that high actually matters.

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You don't need tomestone gear to raid tho, you can do it in full crafted, which you can get day 1 of a patch.

And even then, full parties negate any ilvl requirements in XIV.


AFAIK in lost Ark, no such system exists. You need the gear to even enter the raids, and to be able to do that day one costs real money.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

You don't need tomestone gear to raid tho, you can do it in full crafted, which you can get day 1 of a patch.

And even then, full parties negate any ilvl requirements in XIV.


AFAIK in lost Ark, no such system exists. You need the gear to even enter the raids, and to be able to do that day one costs real money.

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So you can buy crafted gear off the marketboard, can you not pay your way to endgame in Lost Ark? I got to 1370 in one day on Glavier. That class was released last week. By the way, I haven't spent a dime on progression.

For context, 1370 would be considered endgame, and give you access to all current raids in Lost Ark (Argos+hard mode abyss). Sorry I forgot about Velganos, nobody does him though.

FF14 is definitely hard carried by its content design, which is pretty consistently good. Even the easier battle content at least looks cool, as zzzzzzzzzzzzzz as it might be.

Unfortunately, the casual or non-battle content is usually either really dull, inaccessible (ironically), or criminally undersupported. Sometimes all 3.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

No. It's more time consuming to get endgame gear in FFXIV. I am locked out every week, I can't finish my tomestone gear for weeks, it takes even more weeks on top of that get a weapon. I haven't even finished my tomestone set on white mage. God forbid I try gearing my Red Mage or Tank.. I don't do savage, but that apparently has an rng element too on top of it all.

You don't need to be 1490 in Lost Ark right now. It is completely unnecessary, and significantly more expensive (whether you are spending real money, or gold+mats) right now than it will be if players just waited until more content is released where ilvl being that high actually matters.

If that's a lot for dailies. Let's think about how long it takes to do your savage reclears every week, how long does it take for you to cap out your tomes every week. To do your weekly 24-man. How long does that all collectively take in any given week?

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Well it's true with the timegating which is a problem I have too.
But yeah '' right now '', because Lost Ark is very behind on content in EU/NA.
That's going to change tho I mean it's like saying that you didn't need the crafted gear before because Savage wasn't out yet.

I don't think you can compare clearing Savage to doing dailies either.
I can still login and be done for the whole week in one sitting in FFXIV, whether that's a good thing or not depends on how invested you want to be in one game which was kinda my point.
If you actually want to be '' relevant/ up to date '' in Lost Ark it's going to be way more intense on like every level than in FFXIV.

I got into Savage in EW and I'll get my eight P4S clear next reset and I'll have BiS on five Jobs ( minus weapon on either MNK or SAM and DRG but 600 on all at least ) with a ton of extra Savage gear scattered around other Jobs.
It's true that there's time gating especially if you have bad RNG and don't win the chests ( which I rarely do, my RNG is shit ).
But it also leads more directly into rewards with less time invested.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

You don't need tomestone gear to raid tho, you can do it in full crafted, which you can get day 1 of a patch.

And even then, full parties negate any ilvl requirements in XIV.


AFAIK in lost Ark, no such system exists. You need the gear to even enter the raids, and to be able to do that day one costs real money.

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It's a secret, but I bought gear on SGE and jumped into P3S and healed it for my first time healing anything other than dungeons basically lol.
It was totally fine if a bit hectic because I wasn't used to it ( especially in the Fountains phase that scared the hell out of me ).

I feel like in FFXIV the difference between crafted gear and BiS isn't quite as steep as in most other MMO's.
It's obviously a big difference, but it's a big difference for FFXIV specifically.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Have you played Lost Ark, do you know what exactly they are paying for?

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If you don't think lost ark is p2w then you have definitely never played it lol.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Honestly that's a lot for dailies alone, and actually doing the raid content is an enormous ladder that lets be real here ties into the irl cash shop.
Would you not say that getting geared and actually involved in raiding in Lost Ark is SIGNIFICANTLY more time-consuming + has RNG elements tied to the shop too?
Alts are also a pretty big deal in Lost Ark, obviously the MSQ especially from the start in FFXIV is going to be a huge time investement but I view that as a separate thing because it's not really part of the endgame.
In FFXIV I can just buy the crafted gear off the market board and be ready to go and it's not even expensive.

If you actually want to do the hardest endgame content then there's some pretty huge walls you'll run into in Lost Ark that are incredibly time consuming and full of whales.

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Lost Ark content will always be relevant to your character ILVL so in reality you can progress at whatever pace it suits you while having fun. Honestly, it's more a mentality problem of "I want it now" than anything else. MMO's were supposed to be a long term hobby and some still enjoy meaningful progression.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

If you don't think lost ark is p2w then you have definitely never played it lol.

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I feel like a game that had whales complaining that they have nothing to spend their money on is hard to describe as p2w.

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Originally Posted by Driavna

Lost Ark content will always be relevant to your character ILVL so in reality you can progress at whatever pace it suits you while having fun. Honestly, it's more a mentality problem of "I want it now" than anything else. MMO's were supposed to be a long term hobby and some still enjoy meaningful progression.

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I really feel like we're just talking about different things and from different povs, I mean to some extent this is true in FFXIV too..
I am mainly talking about doing the current endgame raiding content and getting BiS seeing my numbers go up and feeling like my character is '' done '' which is what I am the most interested in.

The whole P2W thing is a touchy subject matter and everyone has different views on what it is and isn't and how much time they're willing to invest and what their goals are etc.
But to get the equivelant experience in FFXIV but in Lost Ark I just think it's true that it's way more time consuming.
It's not directly equivelant because they're different games tho.

It's the same with GW2 for example you can just buy the gear on the market board ( there's other gear too for specific content tho ).
So yeah I'd say that GW2 is even less of a time investement and that's also one of the major draws of the game.
In the end of the day Lost Ark is designed around people logging in every day and spending a couple of hours at least and if you want to actually do the equivelant of getting full BiS in FFXIV in Lost Ark then yeah you're going to be pushing much harder.

The numerical difference is also significantly higher between people who do that and people who don't than in FFXIV which is something I do care about too.
I like feeling as if the main thing that is influencing my performance is my ability to play gear isn't a hurdle I want to spend too much time on and also not something that I want to make an enormous difference.
But then you have other people who rly enjoy that, people in BDO for example who enjoy emptying their wallets or completely no-life:ing the game so that they can stomp low geared players with a blindfold on.

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

I feel like a game that had whales complaining that they have nothing to spend their money on is hard to describe as p2w.

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This is because the game is behind in EU/ NA so yeah.
It'll become more true with time I think, but what you're describing is more indicative of how slow they are with releasing the content in the West.

Edit: In the end of the day I think that yes Lost Ark is P2W.
To what extent is a different matter, I'd also say that GW2 is P2W but to a very small degree.

There's degrees to this the question is moreso where Lost Ark lies rather than if it is.