DPS/Healers pulling in dungeons

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Nah, I'll just pull a convenient pack in the vicinity. It's no big deal.

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ok you do you, just don't get mad when not all like you. mind you most will not care.

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Originally Posted by lbr

I do. If the tank is slow, I will say in the chat and tell everyone to blame me if the tank dies due to pulling too much. That does not mean I will not pull nearby packs to help speed things up.

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well may be first hear what the tank got to say before you FORCE YOUR SELF ON THE TANK? see people like you that like to force things on other players if why i really go solo in to DF things.

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

well may be first hear what the tank got to say before you FORCE YOUR SELF ON THE TANK? see people like you that like to force things on other players if why i really go solo in to DF things.

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As long as the tank does what they're already doing (mash the aoe buttons) there's 0 adaptation required on the tank's part. I wouldn't do it if it required additional effort from the tank to take over aggro. Are there any particular reasons why you wouldn't like your job being made easier by party members delivering the mobs to you?

Wait, pulling for the tank is equivalent to "forcing yourself" on them? Now that's a hot take.

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Originally Posted by Caurcas

Wait, pulling for the tank is equivalent to "forcing yourself" on them? Now that's a hot take.

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It is technically considered forcing a playstyle on another player, to be fair. Still, I think it only needs to be reported in extreme cases where there's rude language and insults being thrown around. Ideally, tanks would treat the average case of dps/healers pulling as a learning experience, but not everyone works that way.

Just kick any non-tank who think they are supposed to pull. Or if that does not work, leave the duty.

I have yet to experience someone deliberately doing this as a healer or a DPS. Though I've only started playing since December.

I will say that sometimes I just zone out and forget that I'm sprinting ahead of the tank. I don't mean to and it happens only rarely, but I think we can all agree that most dungeons are kinda dull/easy so you tend to make silly mistakes because you aren't paying attention.

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Originally Posted by SamsaraTrickstar

ok you do you, just don't get mad when not all like you. mind you most will not care.



well may be first hear what the tank got to say before you FORCE YOUR SELF ON THE TANK? see people like you that like to force things on other players if why i really go solo in to DF things.

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What exactly do you mean to imply when you say "not all like you". In your opinion should I be okay with people starting to sandbag by turning off tank stance or stopping to aoe? Do you think that would be warranted?

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Originally Posted by Tehmon

I will say that sometimes I just zone out and forget that I'm sprinting ahead of the tank. I don't mean to and it happens only rarely, but I think we can all agree that most dungeons are kinda dull/easy so you tend to make silly mistakes because you aren't paying attention.

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This one hundred million percent! You can kinda zone out during the dungeons especially as healer and it is incredibly easy to oopsie auto run into mobs/bosses. Heck some of the times I am only doing my thing placing dots onto everything. We are in the boss room that means dot the boss into filler glare spam.. wait where is tank? Ohhhhh oh shoot! Someone was in cutscene! Welp time to run out of boss room and reset.

Always throw apology into chat and it usually makes the party laugh. Can imagine many have been there before.. Especially sadness inducing in places like Stone Vigil where you cannot leave the boss arena.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

By just letting people die you're only proving that you're on a powertrip. I understand that's not the message you want to send but it is the message that's being received.

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Receive it how you want. Couldn't care less.

If you want to act like a jackass on my tank run, you'll have plenty of time to ponder if I'm on a "powertrip" when you are dead on the floor.

And I'll remind you regardless of your many thought experiments or analysis of my mental state, you fucked up.

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Originally Posted by lbr

As long as the tank does what they're already doing (mash the aoe buttons) there's 0 adaptation required on the tank's part. I wouldn't do it if it required additional effort from the tank to take over aggro. Are there any particular reasons why you wouldn't like your job being made easier by party members delivering the mobs to you?

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nvm you don't get it and its ok.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

It is technically considered forcing a playstyle on another player, to be fair. Still, I think it only needs to be reported in extreme cases where there's rude language and insults being thrown around. Ideally, tanks would treat the average case of dps/healers pulling as a learning experience, but not everyone works that way.

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dont need to be reported at all, its not the problem here.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

What exactly do you mean to imply when you say "not all like you". In your opinion should I be okay with people starting to sandbag by turning off tank stance or stopping to aoe? Do you think that would be warranted?

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what i say is talk it out so it will nit get to it. but you say you will pull extra any way. so don't be surprised if the tank don't like it

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Across all anecdotes of non-tanks pulling that I read so far, I've noticed a certain pattern.

I do know that JP DC actually encourages "YPYT" in most of these anecdotes that I read for their reasoning are mostly: "I thought you think you can tank better than I do so I just let you do it."

NA (and maybe EU, too?) DC on the other hand tend to be the exact opposite. YPYT is considered the outlier and would often get shut off pretty quick. If there's even any DPS/Healer pulling ahead, the tank would just pick the mob up then carry on without saying anything.

Looking at the OP's world being in OCE, I think it's because OCE DC mainly consists of players coming from 3 different DCs (for now) which obviously holds different etiquette. I.e. Kujata being the unofficial SEA region world (please correct me if I'm wrong with this one), which should be following the YPYT mentality of JP DC. I imagine when OCE became live, many of those SEA players migrated into new OCE DC, bringing the JP DC etiquette with them. Migrating players from other DC also does the same, and henceforth people are starting to see clashes in etiquette in that new DC.

As always, learn to read the room I guess. Majority will always win, regardless whether it's the pro or anti-YPYT.

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It's a difference in culture. Japanese culture generally places a much higher value in manners and etiquette which is where this supposed "debate" lies. The person being rude is essentially left to die. Where as western culture has a heavier tendency towards the excuse and a belief that everyone else has to make accommodations for what they personally want which is how threads like this end up getting made.

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Originally Posted by SleeeeeeepySleeeeeeep

Receive it how you want. Couldn't care less.

If you want to act like a jackass on my tank run, you'll have plenty of time to ponder if I'm on a "powertrip" when you are dead on the floor.

And I'll remind you regardless of your many thought experiments or analysis of my mental state, you fucked up.

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No need to ponder if you are or arent on a powertrip, you're just telling everyone that you are. Unfortunate how inconsiderate some people are in here of the time of other people.

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Originally Posted by SleeeeeeepySleeeeeeep

Receive it how you want. Couldn't care less.

If you want to act like a jackass on my tank run, you'll have plenty of time to ponder if I'm on a "powertrip" when you are dead on the floor.

And I'll remind you regardless of your many thought experiments or analysis of my mental state, you fucked up.

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Can't say I get it. It takes more effort to turn off stance and start sandbagging than it does to just run in and pull mobs off of people. And for what, because a dps dared to pull something before you decided it was time?

Anyway, I find it the funniest when tanks take this attitude and then get to watch impotently while a competent healer and dps clear a pack without them.

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Originally Posted by SleeeeeeepySleeeeeeep

Get that shit out of here.

When I tank, I watch where everyone is. If everyone's working at breakneck speed, sure, I'll sprint, gap close, pick up everything anyone pulls. Go nuts.

However, if healer's running slow at the back or isn't keeping up. Or if you don't know the layout well enough and are just pulling unnecessary shit, or etc etc. I will let you die.

It quite simply boils down to "don't be a jackass" (tanks included) and work with the general pace of the group. Don't see how this is so contentious.

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This is a small pp tank mindset no one needs lol. Don't let people die and just do your best. If you wipe you wipe. It's really not that hard

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Originally Posted by KariTheFox

Can't say I get it. It takes more effort to turn off stand and start sandbagging than it does to just run in and pull mobs off of people. And for what, because a dps dared to pull something before you decided it was time?

Anyway, I find it the funniest when tanks take this attitude and then get to watch impotently while a competent healer and dps clear a pack without them.

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That's always the funniest part. Some people are under the impression that we tanks are necessary but the reality is that we arent. I personally am a tank who wants to pull every mob myself. So I just activate sprint and it has been ages that someone actually got in front of me. I'm honestly impressed by people who do.

The group can last a while without a tank. If the tank is slower they just want to do something instead of standing around. Its not bm its that they wont die to it anyway so why wait.

DPS and Healers shouldn't be pulling ahead of the tank, with that said you shouldn't make a stink about it. If people die as a result of said pulling, that's on them. Communication goes a long way honestly, and context matters. If a particular person is trying to force you to go faster than you are comfortable with, say something politely, if it continues and it's really bothering you, politely announce it's not working and leave. Simple as that really. If you're comfortable with it and it's just annoying you, you could say something about it politely, but simply try to be the best tank you can be or again... leave if it's really bothering you or if someone starts giving you crap, it isn't worth it.

Any person not playing their job intentionally as a result of not being able to control their emotional faculties is just making themselves look like an ass. Don't be that person. No one, and I mean absolutely no one gives a crap, in the slightest, about a 'holier than thou' Tank, Healer or DPS, you aren't special, you didn't "Show them" anything other than you are an emotional wreck incapable of controlling your temper and expressing yourself properly. There are plenty of groups to join without those types of poor attitudes. So if it becomes an issue, say something, if saying something doesn't work, leave and everyone moves on with their lives.

If I tank, it's only annoying if a tryhard sprints ahead. If it's like 1-2 feet from me it's understandable. What gets me is someone pulls an enemy wondering and I have go to them to get aggro, instead of them running to my mob pack.

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Originally Posted by Tracewood

If I tank, it's only annoying if a tryhard sprints ahead. If it's like 1-2 feet from me it's understandable. What gets me is someone pulls an enemy wondering and I have go to them to get aggro, instead of them running to my mob pack.

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Yea people like that are dumb, like why wouldnt you bring any mob aggro you get into the tank aoes? It makes no sense to not stack up with the tank.

My favourite run of Sastasha ever was when I was tanking and the party decided to spontaneously work as a team. Ranged pulled mobs over from one end, other DPS opened the door and brought the other guy over to me, healer kept us alive as I AOE'd them all. It really brightened up a normally dull dungeon.

And while communication is nice, preferred even, I don't really mind being rescued forward, whether it's to make me zoom or to say "I can heal more". If my judgment was correct and it turns out they can't heal more... so what? We wipe. Oh well. Small time loss. Video games.

In general it's just not a big deal.

(Also if you're a WAR and have bloodwhetting, what on earth are you doing single-pulling. Come on.)

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Originally Posted by Tracewood

If I tank, it's only annoying if a tryhard sprints ahead. If it's like 1-2 feet from me it's understandable. What gets me is someone pulls an enemy wondering and I have go to them to get aggro, instead of them running to my mob pack.

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for real.
i have had people i've done extreme content with that still don't comprehend that they should run the mob into my aoes when i'm tanking. i have like 20 other enemies on me, sorry i couldn't immediately see that tiny add attacking you. just run a little bit past me and have them run into my decimate pls.

totally infuriating.

Oh boy, it's Every Pull Size Thread Ever again. At least it's not another thread about the housing lottery screwups.....

If I'm tanking, I'm not stopping the pull until I hit a wall. If you pull something I missed (which mostly only can happen in ARR dungeons with all of their extraneous trash mobs everywhere), bring it to me, I'm not chasing you. Not out of malice or some "you pull you tank" mentality, but because I'm busy over here, so quit running around like a headless chicken and join the rest of the party. There are a small handful of exceptions (first room of Aurum Vale, the first pull of Bardam's Mettle, Dohn Mheg where the frog adds need to be stunned before moving on so they don't buff the other mobs, probably one or two I'm forgetting), but 90% of the time, I'm playing CD Simon Says. The majority of trash mobs just aren't dangerous enough to be worth taking my time.

Honestly I’m going to make a point to ask in every PLL for Yoshi to answer who the game designers have in mind when it comes to pulling until they give us a clear answer. Like I think it’s obvious personally but it would actually eliminate these threads.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

Honestly I’m going to make a point to ask in every PLL for Yoshi to answer who the game designers have in mind when it comes to pulling until they give us a clear answer. Like I think it’s obvious personally but it would actually eliminate these threads.

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Brave of you to think any of us is listing to yoship beyond what points we already agree with.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

Like I think it’s obvious personally but it would actually eliminate these threads.

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It...really wouldn't. This debate is old. Very old, in fact. It always come to the same general consensus, that being let the tank pull. Or if the tank isn't pulling fast enough, they need to step up their game. That's all there really is to it. Let's not waste Yoshi P's time with this. lol

Doesn’t matter. May as well have something to copy and paste from the game director when these threads pop up. If people wanna keep arguing a dead topic it’s on them.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

It...really wouldn't. This debate is old. Very old, in fact. It always come to the same general consensus, that being let the tank pull. Or if the tank isn't pulling fast enough, they need to step up their game. That's all there really is to it. Let's not waste Yoshi P's time with this. lol

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I’d expect someone who doesn’t want to know the answer to reply something like this. You’re free to waste his time with questions of your own.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

I’d expect someone who doesn’t want to know the answer to reply something like this. You’re free to waste his time with questions of your own.

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I mean, I already know the answer, so...

Tank main with roughly 16-17 years of MMO experience who doesn't have any speed issues with pulling mobs, by the way.

"What? Oh right yeah, you just seemed so intent on fighting those monsters that you went out of your way to grab them, I wanted to respect your warrior's spirit and let you handle them.

Shame you died tho."

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I mean, I already know the answer, so...

Tank main with over a decade of MMO experience who doesn't have any speed issues with pulling mobs, by the way.

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I've legit never had a problem with this either. But I know decent behavior vs impatience, and I know how to be respectful in a duty finder encounter. But hey, we don't have a definitive answer, maybe we'll be surprised by his answer. Or maybe they intend for it to be a gray area. Only one way to find out. By asking. Odds are, however, its the tanks. If I had to put my money somewhere.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

I've legit never had a problem with this either. But I know decent behavior vs impatience, and I know how to be respectful in a duty finder encounter. But hey, we don't have a definitive answer, maybe we'll be surprised by his answer. Or maybe they intend for it to be a gray area. Only one way to find out. By asking. Odds are, however, its the tanks. If I had to put my money somewhere.

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Tanks pulling has been an MMO staple since...well, forever, in games that utilize tanks, healers and dps. We don't need Yoshi P to tell us anything on this. Seriously. This is just unnecessary. How things have worked from the start is our answer.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Tanks pulling has been an MMO staple since...well, forever, in games that utilize tanks, healers and dps. We don't need Yoshi P to tell us anything on this. Seriously. This is just unnecessary.

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I think its necesarry. I think people need to hear it from him. But you do you. Unless you have some plan to deprive others of their free will that could potentially work I would refrain from telling others what they can feel is necessary and what isn't.

Also it was customary for a ranged class or a puller to bring the mob into the party where the tank would take over in FFXI. So its safe to say it hasn't been a staple in the other half of Final Fantasy's MMOs since they only have 2.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

Unless you have some plan to deprive others of their free will that could potentially work I would refrain from telling others what they can feel is necessary and what isn't.

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You're...something else. Take that however you want. Not trying to deprive anyone of their "free will'. Just...what? I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to disagree with others on a public forum of I want, unless you have some plan to deprive others of their free will. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

You're...something else. Take that however you want. Not trying to deprive anyone of their "free will'. Just...what? I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to disagree with others on a public forum of I want, unless you have some plan to deprive others of their free will. :rolleyes:

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I'll put a positive spin on it. Don't worry.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

I'll put a positive spin on it. Don't worry.

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Yeah, I'd expect nothing less from you.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Yeah, I'd expect nothing less from you.

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Nice edit to look less bad. I'm not the one telling you whats necesarry and what isn't or whats okay to ask and what isn't so its kind of cringe to try and turn this around. Either way Yoshi may never answer this but I think your posts say enough about you. Hope you learn to respect others questions even if you don't think they need answers in the future. The frequency this gets asked on this forums would lead you to believe otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

Nice edit to look less bad. I'm not the one telling you whats necesarry and what isn't or whats okay to ask and what isn't so its kind of cringe to try and turn this around. Either way Yoshi may never answer this but I think your posts say enough about you. Hope you learn to respect others questions even if you don't think they need answers in the future. The frequency this gets asked on this forums would lead you to believe otherwise.

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I just added to what I already said. I do that a lot with my posts, usually after a few seconds or so after I've collected my thoughts. Not to make me look less bad (truly couldn't care less about that) but to further explain myself. I'm not afraid to express my opinions or voice my disagreement with anyone. You are no different from anyone else in that regard, despite how you are trying to spin things.

Damn people still get really heated about this, huh?

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Originally Posted by Ath192

I've legit never had a problem with this either. But I know decent behavior vs impatience, and I know how to be respectful in a duty finder encounter. But hey, we don't have a definitive answer, maybe we'll be surprised by his answer. Or maybe they intend for it to be a gray area. Only one way to find out. By asking. Odds are, however, its the tanks. If I had to put my money somewhere.

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The answer is within the tos around Lethargic Play and Nescience Behavior. You are prohibited from pk'ing others by manipulating Enmity generating actions or failing to perform your role when could have.

Those who think it is acceptable can and perhaps should spend some time waiting for the GM in Goal.

I don't mind people pulling ahead of me in dungeons. However, if I get rescued to the pull because I'm 1 foot behind everyone else, I'll just leave without comment. That's not super fun or motivating to me. Seriously, you don't need to do that.