Hear me out: Should 14 have talent trees?

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Originally Posted by Denji

no.

absolutely not. all that happens is people start kicking other people from raids for not having what people have decided are the optimal talents.

square already struggles with balancing issues.

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So like now if you don't play the correct job? How it be bad? Let's say some people like the new healer and some want the old ones. Some liked bow mage some like how it's now. Builds give people what they want. so what the fear?

We have people complaining about hitting one button being too complex. Having a talent tree would be too brain intensive to even consider this to be an option. I do miss being able to spec a cleanse in swtor and swap to something else when going through different content, but the closest thing we may be able to get is something like this added to the next Bozja area equivalent of this expansion. I loved being able to have the option to make a mini build with the spells you can get. If it would every happen it would be there. I'd be all for it, that was one reason I always come back to some games because you can test out new builds and things even with a limited amount of skills in a skill tree like Pyre. Doubt it would ever be on the scale it is in something like path of exile. I love huge sprawling skill trees. [^_^] Beep Beep boop boop and deck building and things alot of people find boring.

Just because it works in one game, doesn't mean it will work in another

I liked them in old WoW up to Wotlk (After Wotlk pretty useless), but i am not missing talent trees in FF14. I just can take another job for different game play.

I understand why people like them, but back when I played WoW, everyone just did the same exact build anyways. There was always an optimal build that 99% of players used for PVE or PVP. Like, they're cool on paper but I don't see much point if everyone's just going to use the same one.

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Originally Posted by Endariel

Just because it works in one game, doesn't mean it will work in another

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Oh yeah?!

*adds another new dota PvP mode*

Just try and stop me!!

*adds bozja 2.0*

They cant balance the jobs as is with out the community complaining about balance, and then later job homogenization after balancing takes place. Talent trees would just make matters worse.
Also, builds just become choosing what is meta. Its an illusion of choice.

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Originally Posted by Lihtleita

we had job customisation and it was removed because of the community response because it was poorly implemented in FFXIV's V1

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I fixed that for you...

They would probably have to design the talents/content in a way where it didn't matter at all which talents you picked, so I'm not sure what the point would be. They'd just be giving themselves more work to do for something that wouldn't be enough for the people that actually want it. And we already have hrothgar for that.

No.

if you do this, it will increase the time they need to spend in introducing ANYTHING new to the game that is involved with figthing. I don't want to increase game dev time on something that is not necessarily going to make the game better. This can go really bad and if something is oki now, but could go super bad, for a lot of time and effort wasted, i would rather not.

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Originally Posted by Denji

no.

absolutely not. all that happens is people start kicking other people from raids for not having what people have decided are the optimal talents.

square already struggles with balancing issues.

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Rubbish.

People don't kick you from Savage PF even if you're a 0 dps healer, 70% uptime DNC, playing the job with the lowest dps or not using mitigation as a tank. I'm honestly a little tired of how the ff14 community always stifles literally any suggestion of QoL or more interesting gameplay with nonsense scaremongering. With the exception of the handful of speed runs for logs and occasional bad apples, ff14 players just don't care about meta.

I'm not sure talent trees are the answer, but ff14 classes and gear is terribly bland and boring and could do with something to spice it a little.

Square struggles with balancing issues because they push out more classes than they can handle and QA test them with a small team of unqualified staff members.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Rubbish.

People don't kick you from Savage PF even if you're a 0 dps healer, 70% uptime DNC, playing the job with the lowest dps or not using mitigation as a tank. I'm honestly a little tired of how the ff14 community always stifles literally any suggestion of QoL or more interesting gameplay with nonsense scaremongering. With the exception of the handful of speed runs for logs and occasional bad apples, ff14 players just don't care about meta.

Square struggles with balancing issues because they push out more classes than they can handle and QA test them with a small team of unqualified staff members.

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I can count on one hand the amount of times I've been kicked from a party in 20 years because of talent choices. People look at your gear, your logs, and you achieves.


I'm against talents in 14 strictly because I don't believe SE can balance it. If they could pull it off I'd honestly love it, but they give me little faith.

Talent trees are ultimately the illusion of choice. In the end there will be a handful of optimal builds that everyone are expected to follow by the community.

Only "talent tree" in WoW that somewhat avoided this was the artifact system because in the end you got all of the talents, save for 3 minor ones tied to loot.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

Well, it's just a me thing, call it ocd and/or taking rp too seriously, but I didn't like that I had to unlock a class I wasn't interested in, aesthetically or mechanically, and leave it there unleveled, pestering me every time I see it in my roster. That and the Amaro mount are the only reason I leveled all jobs, but if it were up to me, I'd only have 6, and only 2 of them are the vanilla jobs /shrug

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That's fair enough, we all have different tastes. I do sympathize with the only leveling a couple jobs; I was DRG/BRD/DoH/DoL only for the vast majority of my time in the game. There was a time back in late ARR where I thought it would be be a good idea to get all classes to 30 just to have them at an equal point to satisfy my need for uniformity, but I think I stopped at about 75% done. It's only been in the past few months that I've started branching out into WHM, RDM, and PLD to round out all five different roles (and unlock the glamours).

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Originally Posted by SargeTheSeagull

So lately there’s been a bunch of talk about people being really unhappy about job changes and general direction. The devs clearly want to keep the skill gap as small as possible and most of us hate their current approach. I think there may be a solution: talent trees.

I don’t mean anything as in depth as other games. Just maybe a few talents per job that slightly change how a few skills operate. For example, warrior has a talent that changes overpower from a circle to a cone. Sage has a talent that changes physis from a regen to a shield. Dark knight could have a talent that makes plunge deal no damage but applies soul survivor. Samurai has a talent choice where A: you lose kaiten but midare, kaeshi, and tsubame are guaranteed crits or B: you have hissatsu kaiten but the related skills deal less damage.
I didn’t completely think out the numbers or functionality, these are just examples.

In other words, those of us who preferred the gameplay of previous patches/expacs can have our cake and eat it and players who like the direction of job design can have and eat their cake. Would this happen? Probably not. But it could be fun to think about.

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I see where you are coming from; but, talent trees wouldn't work with FFXIV's class/job design. As opposed to WoW, the classes/jobs are designed for specific roles. As such, you can't finagle with the abilities without throwing game balance out the window.

Furthermore, player groupthink would decide which talents would be required. Individuals who choose different talents would be judged and excluded even if their talent build works well.

So, no. Not in this game. However, it could work in a future S.E. MMORPG when the classes/jobs are designed from the ground up to accommodate talent trees and various talent builds.

Talent trees have no business being in a MMO simple as that. They are fine in a single player rpgs where role/class balance is not as important.

Trees are useless since they all result in meta cookie cutter builds anyways, and you'd get kicked out of hardcore content for not following them.

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Originally Posted by SargeTheSeagull

So lately there’s been a bunch of talk about people being really unhappy about job changes and general direction. The devs clearly want to keep the skill gap as small as possible and most of us hate their current approach. I think there may be a solution: talent trees.

I don’t mean anything as in depth as other games. Just maybe a few talents per job that slightly change how a few skills operate. For example, warrior has a talent that changes overpower from a circle to a cone. Sage has a talent that changes physis from a regen to a shield. Dark knight could have a talent that makes plunge deal no damage but applies soul survivor. Samurai has a talent choice where A: you lose kaiten but midare, kaeshi, and tsubame are guaranteed crits or B: you have hissatsu kaiten but the related skills deal less damage.
I didn’t completely think out the numbers or functionality, these are just examples.

In other words, those of us who preferred the gameplay of previous patches/expacs can have our cake and eat it and players who like the direction of job design can have and eat their cake. Would this happen? Probably not. But it could be fun to think about.

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no man. people will always choose the meta anyway. its a lot of effort for something that isnt very useful.