What are your crazy theories after Endwalker

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Originally Posted by Shookbeast

I’m currently playing NewGame+ for just the ARR stuff (it’s been a while).

Crazy Theory: We actually DO go back in time and give Cid his goggles.

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Cid and Azem have a lot in common as well, just sayin'.

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Originally Posted by Alleluia

Livingway says Zodiark could be summoned without us feeling more than a "tug" on our aether. She never says that we'd be tempered by something of his scale. And I'd think she would have, if that were so; given the context of that conversation.

And yet, Emet outright says in Shadowbringers that Zodiark tempered "us". By "us", I assume he means the people who summoned him ie the convocation members and their underlings who were present (if any). But that is technically an assumption, so the writers could come back and claim he tempered the whole city when he was summoned if they want since they've never specified.

(Side note, if Fandaniel is any indication, we at least now have confirmation that tempering definitely does not stick with a soul once they get put thru the reincarnation rinse cycle. Which is cool.)


Hydaelyn definitely doesn't seem to temper people, which we now know is apparently perfectly within bounds of how primal summoning can work. Before EW, that was up for debate.

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Tbh I think there are two affects that can happen by tempering. Often when we discuss it, we talk of the mind alterng affect that tempering has on its summoners and those that come into contact with it.

If we consider what tempering actually is, in a base form, it is merely the atuning of Aether to a specific Element or Polarity. I think the mind altering aspect of primals is injecting that Aether polarity with the command to think of the primal, worship the primal and find more worshipers.

When Emet says that he is tempered. I do think hes telling the truth, but the tempering is merely Zodiark attuning his aether to Darkness polarity, making it a bit more active rather than the primal version.

I think this would also explain why the Ascians despite being around Elidibus, a primal, for thousands of years was not tempered to following Elidibus' every desire.
We could also argue that hydealyn's blessing of light is similiar in this regard. It tempers the Aether to be more static, thus providing protection from being influenced by other primals / aetherical polarity.

This also fits in with the meaning of the word.

Tempering:

1. improve the hardness and elasticity of (steel or other metal) by reheating and then cooling it.
"the way a smith would temper a sword"

2. act as a neutralizing or counterbalancing force to (something).
"their idealism is tempered with realism"

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Originally Posted by Anvaire

This also fits in with the meaning of the word.

Tempering:

1. improve the hardness and elasticity of (steel or other metal) by reheating and then cooling it.
"the way a smith would temper a sword"

2. act as a neutralizing or counterbalancing force to (something).
"their idealism is tempered with realism"

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Something to keep in mind is that (unless there's 1.0 history I'm unaware of) we've acquired "tempering" as a catch-all term by accident. It originally applied to Ifrit's thralls specifically, coming from the first definition, like Leviathan's "drowned" or Ramuh's "touched".

As late as level 50 they're introducing new primal-specific terms – though one they soon drop and repurpose.

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http://garlandtools.org/db/#quest/65969
Yet, just as Ifrit's tempered or Leviathan's drowned, Odin must needs have his “sundered” to offer crystals in his name─unless he drinks of the Shroud's aether.

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Edit to add: Later still, Lakshmi has her "dreamers".

If 7.0 ends up a good amount focusing on the New World and exploring/discovering the unknown regions then I think New Job theory wise they may consider to bring in the Sword/Gun job as the Corsair Job so they have one of the two new jobs focus on the expansion theme about exploring the unknown.

The sword/gun combo is a iconic priate job weapon in fantasy games and it may fit to be the 2nd Scouting Gear job since currently only Rogue/Ninja use scounting gears. Not to mention SE may use 7.0 as a opportunity to get a 2nd Scouting gear job due to how 7.0 should be the double DPS new job expansion if following new job release patterns.

This may also give SE a job that may focus on lore about the priates that never became part of Limsa Lominsa changes and thus set out into others regions they believe will allow them to continue their way of life far from Limsa Lominsa control, did not agree with Merlwyb, or explore lore about pirates and/or explorers born in the New World and Unknown regions.

Not to mention this maybe a good opportunity to revive the Corsair Job from FFXI into FF14 with a new weapon set being the sword/gun weapon since single Gun weapon is taken by Machinist already similar to how SE revived the Scythe Dark Knight from FFXI as the Reaper in FF14.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

If 7.0 ends up a good amount focusing on the New World and exploring/discovering the unknown regions then I think New Job theory wise they may consider to bring in the Sword/Gun job as the Corsair Job so they have one of the two new jobs focus on the expansion theme about exploring the unknown.

The sword/gun combo is a iconic priate job weapon in fantasy games and it may fit to be the 2nd Scouting Gear job since currently only Rogue/Ninja use scounting gears. Not to mention SE may use 7.0 as a opportunity to get a 2nd Scouting gear job due to how 7.0 should be the double DPS new job expansion if following new job release patterns.

This may also give SE a job that may focus on lore about the priates that never became part of Limsa Lominsa changes and thus set out into others regions they believe will allow them to continue their way of life far from Limsa Lominsa control, did not agree with Merlwyb, or explore lore about pirates and/or explorers born in the New World and Unknown regions.

Not to mention this maybe a good opportunity to revive the Corsair Job from FFXI into FF14 with a new weapon set being the sword/gun weapon since single Gun weapon is taken by Machinist already similar to how SE revived the Scythe Dark Knight from FFXI as the Reaper in FF14.

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Wouldn't the corsair be two pistols like Merlwyb Bloefhiswyn? Did it not seem strange she had new animations we haven't seen before in 5.5 during the duty?

It would also be interesting for a pirate town, that is basically the opposite of Limsa, that is lawless and a criminal haven and could easily be placed in the South Seas or the New World. But I also think it would be weird to have a second pirate town and putting it in the new world also takes away the chance to have a colony themed town.

In memory of "those who have gone before" the Ancients, the Convocation will be reestablished however

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Originally Posted by Kesey

Wouldn't the corsair be two pistols like Merlwyb Bloefhiswyn? Did it not seem strange she had new animations we haven't seen before in 5.5 during the duty?

It would also be interesting for a pirate town, that is basically the opposite of Limsa, that is lawless and a criminal haven and could easily be placed in the South Seas or the New World. But I also think it would be weird to have a second pirate town and putting it in the new world also takes away the chance to have a colony themed town.

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While dual pistol will be interesting for Corsair, I feel that maybe used for a different job such as Gunslinger Job which maybe western theme Job for the New World side of the theme if they have a location in the New World themed around the wild west. That will then make Gunslinger the 4th Physical Range Job. We currently have 4 Tank, 5 Melee DPS, 4 Healers, 3 Mage DPS, and 3 Physical Range DPS by how SE categorize Job roles now.

This will set up the 8.0 expansion for either a Physical Range DPS or Mage DPS job and Gunslinger Job maybe a possible choice if they want to give us Merlwyb theme job if they don't give the dual pistol weapon to Corsair.

However, it is possible sword/gun weapon may not be given to Corsair as well and they go down the Merlwyb path which will lead to a different job getting Sword/Gun for a different type of theme to maybe fit the theme of one of the Unknown civilization we don't know about. I already have one guess for a long time in my signature being the Modern Assassin job as the Sword/gun job while the others is either a Demon Hunter Job or a Noctis/Yozora Job.

I dunno, I think (IMO) the reward for all combat Jobs to 90 is a sign that, perhaps, we will go in the New World.
I thought about it since the helmet is something which makes my think about the natives in the N. America.

I dunno, I think (IMO) the reward for all combat Jobs to 90 is a sign that, perhaps, we will go in the New World.
I thought about it since the helmet is something which makes my think about the natives in the N. America.

Could be cool to see a hunting knife & tomahawk wielding job, if we’re going with American themed jobs. Tomahawks were made to throw well, after all. (Though I suppose they’d have to rename it to avoid confusion with the WAR skill? Or rename the skill.)

Or a bola wielder. That’s physical ranged. Or they could make it a magic user who incapacitated/debuffed their enemy with a(n enchanted?) bola, first. Like a Brazilian red mage. lol Could be a mamool ja thing.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I agree it seems very plausible that Lahabrea is responsible for introducing tempering, but I don't think we'll be handling a split timeline again. The memory crystal has to somehow independently make its way from Pandæmonium to our present, and that can't happen if we only fix things in an alternate timeline.

(Well, technically we could fix things in timeline A while the people of timeline B (connected to ours) are doomed and send us the crystal distress signal, but that just makes things even more complicated.)

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Pardon the belated response, but I feel that I've come up with a sufficient answer for how this would work. I believe it would look something like this:

Timeline A: Someone (most likely Azem), for reasons unknown, sets a soul crystal adrift upon the aetherial sea bearing a message regarding the events taking place in Pandaemonium. Themis is informed by Azem that aid will arrive at a precise location in Elpis at a precise moment in time. But nobody arrives, and as such Themis is forced to conduct his investigation alone. After a brief foray into Pandaemonium, he is forced to conclude that the entire facility is unsalvageable and drastic measures are taken to ensure that it's dealt with. Pandaemonium is destroyed in its entirety and written off as a necessary sacrifice for the greater good, while the truth about what was happening within goes unnoticed. 12,000 years and a lot of change later, the soul crystal sent into the aetherial sea finds its way into the Warrior of Light's hands, and they proceed to make a journey through time and space to investigate...

Timeline B: … arriving at the precise moment and location Themis was instructed to look for us. With the Warrior of Light demonstrating their martial prowess, Themis is confident that the Pandaemonium situation can be handled without sacrificing the facility or its inhabitants. This in turn leads to the truth of Pandaemonium's situation coming to light, etc.

Or in other words: Timeline A is our own timeline, while B is the branch we inadvertently caused by going back in time.

Like I said, however, it's nothing but a crazy theory, and I'm not going to get my hopes up by suggesting it will come to pass. For all I know, this could actually be nothing more than a time loop the WoL ends up setting into motion at the end of the raid by making the soul crystal themselves. But I think the part where Azem knew we'd be arriving, despite not being possessed of future sight, is a dead ringer for their involvement in our arrival. And I don't think they'd set us up to deal with Pandaemonium purely for the thrill of it.

Fascinating-- my early morning meeting got postponed which gave me ample time to while away on the forums. Many comments here were so intriguing to read, I even let my coffee go cold-- a sacrilege, I know, I know.

My personal pet theories are not wild-- just a tad eccentric and reckless-- yes, I know-- but the OP asked, and I'll shamelessly tell. My theories tend to revolve around people, places and then critical events-- in that order.

First up-- people-- and I'll commence with our old "friend" from 1.0-- Travanchet. For those who can remember, you'll also recall that the only time he shows up again is in Heavensward during the Alexander quests. Mide and Dayan essentially confirm that he was the culprit who orchestrated the original summoning of the primal Alexander and it's insane control of time manipulation. I reckon this lad could still be residing on one of the remaining shards orchestrating-- something-- but what? I will post my in-depth theories and speculations on this at a later time-- I assure you, it's reckless in it's thought process and I think the only person I mentioned it to was Moose a few years ago when I ran into him in Limsa.

Must remember that this is FFXIV-- and reckless speculation is usually required (and encouraged) provided it is within reckless wild reason. Reckless speculation is bloody good-- has immense potential to become reality.

http://i.imgur.com/HU5ihkr.png

Next on my list of "people" is Noah and the mysterious relics he nabbed towards the end of the Bozjah arc-- yes yes yes, I know-- I'll bring him up for the umpteenth time because I'm still smarting from his story not being properly concluded as we would have all wished. Which fuels our collective speculation that he quite possibly remains alive and thriving-- maybe in Corvos? I particularly loved the comments that Hemlock made in this thread --(page 6 or 7?)-- regarding the possiblity that Gra'ha could become a central figure for that region, shed his imposter syndrome and elevate into the Nuhn position (insert lovely, uplifting speech right here). Which makes me theorize that Noah could be involved in that whole shenanigans for better or worse-- and heck-- maybe we even go on another convoluted redemption arc for him.

Either way, he'll make a spiffy Trust in the future, yes? Plus Gaius-- and Livia. I think so too.

https://i.imgur.com/gyEgEZ1.jpg

There are a few more "people" I had wanted to dredge up from the intricacies of the MSQ (from 1.0 to 6.0) but I'm suddenly getting distracted by work and I need more coffee, so I need to wrap this up now-- plus I still need to finish drafting my "feel good" post to the incredible Dev Team (regarding my review of EW) that I've been sitting on for a few weeks. As such, I'll just skip straight to listing one of the tentative "places" I've been theorizing might become a possibility-- wait for it--

A new powerful empire from one of the other shards who have consolidated all the nations, races and creeds under their banner into one technological juggernaut-- see images below of their airships that make the Garlean dreadnaughts look like mere drones. What? I like the idea of having big bad empires to battle with. Now that our lovely ol' lass Venat is no more, the barriers that kept all the fourteen shards separated have dissolved and our new Imperial friends have seen it fit and proper to expand their borders to include inter-planetary domains-- they are especially keen on absorbing Etheirys. Could make for some interesting new arc provided it's not pedestrian in it's storytelling.

It's okay if you reckon I've gone mental and lost the plot-- a few of my friends already said the same when I told them on discord. It's either we get some new Imperials or some of Omega's old colleagues


https://i.imgur.com/dWkVmxY.png

https://i.imgur.com/3zt4BZZ.png

By the way-- remember how we kept running into "mirror" versions of certain NPCs from the Source while we were on the First? Rowena? Gerolt?

Well-- when you think about it along those terms, guess who happens to be the Crown Prince for these new Imperials?

Yes-- just when we thought we had enough of him-- I assure you this can happen-- the Devs love us like that. Please look forward to it.

Crap-- need to stop here an get to another meeting.




*Still editing, still editing, still editing-- images of the Lindblum airship and Phoenix are concept art from FFXIII, used here to convey how I envision our potential new imperial "friends"*

Crazy theory: The shoebill is the final boss.

Srsly, what is with that bird? Even the guys in Elpis are confused.

Lyse needed an entire expansion to grow into her role in Ala Mihgo, and she had much stronger ties there to begin with, so I'm still not totally on board with G'raha suddenly putting down roots in Corvos (as nunh or otherwise), even though I know it's probably coming. It'd be too sudden a reversal from his 6.0 epilogue conversation, not to mention the very dreams that gave him hope as he stared death in the face in Ultima Thule.

However, some of his dialogue seemed to suggest the existence of a younger G tia, so if G'raha were to (re)discover he had a younger brother... We could potentially get the Lion King scenario they've clearly been dying to do since the ink dried on the Seeker tribe structure, but with G'raha and Krile serving in more of a mentor capacity.

G'raha shows up just in time to fill a power vacuum in the wake of the Final Days. The younger tia, who's been prepping his entire life for this is jealous, but eventually concedes that he can never match one of the saviors of the universe. G'raha, meanwhile, really wasn't planning on sticking around for longer than a daytrip, and now has the ironic task of helping his little brother to overcome deeply-rooted insecurities and be true to his desires, while simultaneously reaffirming his own. All of this set to backdrop of post-imperial intrigue and ancient Allagan mystery.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

Lyse needed an entire expansion to grow into her role in Ala Mihgo, and she had much stronger ties there to begin with, so I'm still not totally on board with G'raha suddenly putting down roots in Corvos (as nunh or otherwise), even though I know it's probably coming. It'd be too sudden a reversal from his 6.0 epilogue conversation, not to mention the very dreams that gave him hope as he stared death in the face in Ultima Thule.

However, some of his dialogue seemed to suggest the existence of a younger G tia, so if G'raha were to (re)discover he had a younger brother... We could potentially get the Lion King scenario they've clearly been dying to do since the ink dried on the Seeker tribe structure, but with G'raha and Krile serving in more of a mentor capacity.

G'raha shows up just in time to fill a power vacuum in the wake of the Final Days. The younger tia, who's been prepping his entire life for this is jealous, but eventually concedes that he can never match one of the saviors of the universe. G'raha, meanwhile, really wasn't planning on sticking around for longer than a daytrip, and now has the ironic task of helping his little brother to overcome deeply-rooted insecurities and be true to his desires, while simultaneously reaffirming his own. All of this set to backdrop of post-imperial intrigue and ancient Allagan mystery.

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You just have to give him time off-screen to get things done before his return in Season 2. The Scion splitting up is mostly to set the stage for them to eventually return in Season 2 (most likely with new gear as well and maybe a new Job) but first they have to do is deal with their own issues by themselves while WoL begins his/her new adventure with the new companions who will be with the Scions as WoL Season 2 companions.

That is sadly how life stories are sometimes as we are never there to see the stories of everything about a person that leads to their progress and development once their stories crosspaths with another person's story but we know they happened once we learn about it.

However, that is not a bad thing because it shows that a person like WoL is not need to be there all the time for a person to get things done even involving their own personal issues.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

You just have to give him time off-screen to get things done before his return in Season 2. The Scion splitting up is mostly to set the stage for them to eventually return in Season 2 (most likely with new gear as well and maybe a new Job) but first they have to do is deal with their own issues by themselves while WoL begins his/her new adventure with the new companions who will be with the Scions as WoL Season 2 companions.

That is sadly how life stories are sometimes as we are never there to see the stories of everything about a person that leads to their progress and development once their stories crosspaths with another person's story but we know they happened once we learn about it.

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You quoted my entire post, so I'm not really sure what you're trying to reply to (I'm assuming the first paragraph).

I'd rather not see any of our companions handled like that, personally. Alisaie went through some stuff during her post-Coil wanderings, but she was still very much Alisaie when she came back. The core of her character hadn't changed. I think the only one of our companions who really changed during the Shadowbringers timeskip was Thancred, and that not only took literal years, but dragged underlying issues he's had since 1.0 to the fore, rather than completely replacing his established motivations.

But I'd rather not get preemptively worn out over possible writing fumbles that haven't even happened yet. I was really just speculating on how a possible, on-screen, "Nunh of the G" story might play out in a way that wouldn't undermine established characterizations.

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Originally Posted by Teah_Kaye

I would like to see G'raha go on his own journey and get to explore him as a character in a setting that doesn't revolve around the WoL so much.

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I feel like Corvos would be a perfect chance to explore that.

He's already expressed interest in returning there plus the land was ravaged by the Final Days, so I think we might end up visiting the place with him in patch content. It would result in him having a diminished 6.x MSQ presence, but I think he's gotten a fair bit of spotlight as is.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

You quoted my entire post, so I'm not really sure what you're trying to reply to (I'm assuming the first paragraph).

I'd rather not see any of our companions handled like that, personally. Alisaie went through some stuff during her post-Coil wanderings, but she was still very much Alisaie when she came back. The core of her character hadn't changed. I think the only one of our companions who really changed during the Shadowbringers timeskip was Thancred, and that not only took literal years, but dragged underlying issues he's had since 1.0 to the fore, rather than completely replacing his established motivations.

But I'd rather not get preemptively worn out over possible writing fumbles that haven't even happened yet. I was really just speculating on how a possible, on-screen, "Nunh of the G" story might play out in a way that wouldn't undermine established characterizations.

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I think you are confusing personality change with character development here. Personality change is a common trait used to show character developement but it is not actual character develop but a easier way to show it if you understand what I am trying to say.

A character can go through his/her own character development while maintaining their original personality. G'raha himself literally went through this from 2.0 Crystal tower raid story to his return in 5.0 Shadowbringer. His Exarch personality and experience may have developed him greatly but his personality was still very much the same from his 2.0 days. He just had little time to show it to others until WoL appeared on the First due to how focuserd he was on his mission.

However, showing off-screen development for a character is often difficult because readers/followers of a story often want to see it happen directly especially when they can only see the story through the views of their own character. Yet to focus too much on showing it with players characters always around is one of the greatest fumbles any story writer can make as well since it shows how characters themselves can't develop in positive ways unless the Player's character is there to help them.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

I think you are confusing personality change with character development here. Personality change is a common trait used to show character developement but it is not actual character develop but a easier way to show it if you understand what I am trying to say.

A character can go through his/her own character development while maintaining their original personality. G'raha himself literally went through this from 2.0 Crystal tower raid story to his return in 5.0 Shadowbringer. His Exarch personality and experience may have developed him greatly but his personality was still very much the same from his 2.0 days. He just had little time to show it to others until WoL appeared on the First due to how focuserd he was on his mission.

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I'm sorry to confuse you. I think you just lost sight of the larger context required to understand what I was getting at.

I don't disagree with the sentiment that he needs a break (I even said as much myself in another thread), I even think there are obstacles that could arise naturally to pull him into the background for a time (losing the Allagan Eye, for one). I just don't think having him pull a Lyse and become a leader figure, in a region he has already said he has no intention of settling down in, would be a natural development, nor do I think there's anything that could believably happen to him off-screen that could enable that turn as a natural character development, short of replacing his personality.

The Exarch worked because, at the end of the day, he still retained that baseline desire to go on adventures with his hero. His lifelong dream is continued participation in FFXIV's narrative. To replace that with another goal (i.e. restoring the G as nunh) would be to suggest that his original goal was somehow deficient. Sure, there are players who don't like him, and maybe even want him dead and gone, but the story has never framed his desire to be this wandering altruistic figure alongside another wandering altruistic figure as anything but worthy. Adventures are best when shared.

For a really old and well-known comparison, take Dogi from the Ys series. He appears in almost every game in some capacity (except Ys II), and has been Adol's formal traveling companion since Ys III (well, IV but that timeline is a mess). He didn't settle down in his hometown in Felghana, and after 35 years (well, only 7 in-universe) nobody keeping up with the series really questions his presence anymore. If there's a wall, he'll be there to crush it. It's what he does.

We're definitely going to Corvos, and G'raha is definitely coming with us. I just prefer to think we won't be leaving him there.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

I'm sorry to confuse you. I think you just lost sight of the larger context required to understand what I was getting at.

I don't disagree with the sentiment that he needs a break (I even said as much myself in another thread), I even think there are obstacles that could arise naturally to pull him into the background for a time (losing the Allagan Eye, for one). I just don't think having him pull a Lyse and become a leader figure, in a region he has already said he has no intention of settling down in, would be a natural development, nor do I think there's anything that could believably happen to him off-screen that could enable that turn as a natural character development, short of replacing his personality.

The Exarch worked because, at the end of the day, he still retained that baseline desire to go on adventures with his hero. His lifelong dream is continued participation in FFXIV's narrative. To replace that with another goal (i.e. restoring the G as nunh) would be to suggest that his original goal was somehow deficient. Sure, there are players who don't like him, and maybe even want him dead and gone, but the story has never framed his desire to be this wandering altruistic figure alongside another wandering altruistic figure as anything but worthy. Adventures are best when shared.

For a really old and well-known comparison, take Dogi from the Ys series. He appears in almost every game in some capacity (except Ys II), and has been Adol's formal traveling companion since Ys III (well, IV but that timeline is a mess). He didn't settle down in his hometown in Felghana, and after 35 years (well, only 7 in-universe) nobody keeping up with the series really questions his presence anymore. If there's a wall, he'll be there to crush it. It's what he does.

We're definitely going to Corvos, and G'raha is definitely coming with us. I just prefer to think we won't be leaving him there.

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I personally don't think he abaddon his dream to go on adventures with WoL but this issue has been on his mind despite not speaking about it. It feels more like this was a personal matter he wanted to deal with first before setting out on his dream which he should follow through in Season 2 once he returns.

6.1 to 6.55 is meant to be the Prologue for Season 2 after all so I expected that during this time SE and Yoshi-P may use this to settle personal matters with certain characters, like G'raha, so they can determine which one of the Scions will return first during 7.0 both for plot reasons and to determine which character are going to be in the Trust for 7.X era. Along with show the aftermath of Endwalker events on Eorzea and maybe a bit on how the Final Days affect the Unknown regions we will go to in Season 2.

I also expect we may meet one or two of the new companions in 6.1 to 6.55 since they may seek to set the stage for the locations we are going to in 7.0 and the Season 2 plot through this new companion for WoL.

Scion return wise for 7.0, I expect G'raha to be the first since we did make a promise to him about going on another adventure with him so 6.1 to 6.55 may focus a bit about G'raha settling his personal matters before WoL starts his/her journey into the new regions in 7.0 so he can be there when WoL begins his/her new adventure. My other guess is Thancred and Urianger mostly due to how their reason for splitting up with the group is to go on their own adventure which most likely may lead to their return either during Prologue (aka 6.1 to 6.55) or during 7.0 during some moment when they make a heroic return.

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Originally Posted by Ramesses

A new powerful empire from one of the other shards who have consolidated all the nations, races and creeds under their banner into one technological juggernaut-- see images below of their airships that make the Garlean dreadnaughts look like mere drones.

By the way-- remember how we kept running into "mirror" versions of certain NPCs from the Source while we were on the First? Rowena? Gerolt?

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I will go even further down this rabbit hole and combine it with another theory I think I have heard on this thread. What if the ruler of this Shard conquering empire is none other then wait for it. Another reincarnation of Azem.

Someone else mentioned the possibility of facing another shard of Azem and a reflection of ourselves who had already gone to the remaining shards and forcefully absorbed the souls of the other Azem reincarnations. Well what if this particular one used both their overpowered abilities and their influence with people to instead rule their own shard essentially adapting the method of trying to stop the crime before it happens instead of reacting to it. In this what if scenario I am taking some inspiration from Injustice, similar to the WoL and Ardbert this Shard's reflection of Azem would have started off as an adventurer who helped many people over the years and toppled greater and greater foes. but what would lead them from this path of hero to conqueror you might ask. Well in this scenario just like our character and Ardbert this reflection of our characters would have traveled with a group of companions, think of them as their Scions.

Perhaps much like Ardbert's companions they are based off of the official artwork character's for various jobs that were not used in Ardbert's group. Maybe the Azem reflection is the concept art character for a new job added that expansion. Anyway going back to the companions in this other shard our character's reflection not only lost most of their companions, but lost them in an event very similar to the bloody banquet from 2.55. This city in question would also be essentially this character's starting city as well. After fleeing with their life however this reflection did not simply go into hiding but rallied the many people they had helped over the years to start a revolution overthrowing and killing the ones behind their betrayal and being named the new ruler of this city. Being jaded by the loss of their companions however the Azem reflection then went on to bring all the other nations of this shard into the fold. In their mindset they would root out all the corruption and things wrong with their world solving all of its problems through force.

Part 2 of this Theory

After the events of Endwalker like you suggested with Hydalyn now gone and the barriers between shards possibly weakening maybe this reflection of the WoL then went on to attack the remaining shards to absorb their reflections and now comes to the source for us seeking to absorb us and become immortal so they can rule over all Shard's forever and ensure the peace and security that they and their companions once strived for but sadly their companions did not live to see will never fade with an unworthy successor. As for the magiteck you suggested perhaps it was created by this Shard's version of Cid who was one of the few companions of this Azem shard who survived and who takes on a role much closer to his FF XII version, maybe even having a somewhat similar but different version of the Iron Works moto, this time being, Peace or Security through Technology. We naturally defeat them by unifying the people of the Source (it would have to be after we have visited most of the Source) and maybe the first as well through inspiration and example and not force and defeat them through the power of friendship, maybe seeing the sight of of us with our companions gives our reflection an emotional flashback to their friends to further up the feels. I know this is really fan servicey and a tinfoil theory at this point but i just think it would be interesting.

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Originally Posted by FrightfulNight

Part 2 of this Theory

After the events of Endwalker like you suggested with Hydalyn now gone and the barriers between shards possibly weakening maybe this reflection of the WoL then went on to attack the remaining shards to absorb their reflections and now comes to the source for us seeking to absorb us and become immortal so they can rule over all Shard's forever and ensure the peace and security that they and their companions once strived for but sadly their companions did not live to see will never fade with an unworthy successor. As for the magiteck you suggested perhaps it was created by this Shard's version of Cid who was one of the few companions of this Azem shard who survived and who takes on a role much closer to his FF XII version, maybe even having a somewhat similar but different version of the Iron Works moto, this time being, Peace or Security through Technology. We naturally defeat them by unifying the people of the Source (it would have to be after we have visited most of the Source) and maybe the first as well through inspiration and example and not force and defeat them through the power of friendship, maybe seeing the sight of of us with our companions gives our reflection an emotional flashback to their friends to further up the feels. I know this is really fan servicey and a tinfoil theory at this point but i just think it would be interesting.

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this kind of reminds me of jet lees the one.

I just don't see the point in striving to acquire more soul-shards. What is it actually going to add to the plot? We're already possibly the most powerful entity in the world, if not the universe, capable of beating up gods on a regular basis. The last thing the plot needs is to make us even more overwhelmingly powerful.

...especially if we're then left asking "so why are we still struggling to fight this level 99 squirrel?"

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Originally Posted by Iscah

...especially if we're then left asking "so why are we still struggling to fight this level 99 squirrel?"

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oh thats easy- its the squirrel that ferry insults between nidhogg and Vedfolnir.

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Originally Posted by Teah_Kaye

Filling out our Azem Pokedex.

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Gotta to explore them all!

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Originally Posted by Teah_Kaye

I think it might actually be Emet's familiar, it drops as a minion from Amaurot and makes an annoyed look at you when you /hug it during that Elpis sidequest. Lol.

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Possibly. Even probable, given its glare just screams "Hades" to me. Still doesn't explain why its following us through time. Or into my Pendants room. lol

And why does it only show up on the First or a place technically connected with it (Elpis)? Did it follow us to Elpis? If so, why? Or is the Elpis version the original, and the one on the First actually 12 thousand years old?

If its just an easter egg, why has it not shown up on the Source, too? Endwalker certainly had plenty of opportunity. The "Shoot the hornbill" quest comes to mind.

I know its probably just a running gag that I am taking too seriously, but I have questions!

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Originally Posted by Teah_Kaye

Shoebills look exactly like that in real life. Weird birds.

https://animals.sandiegozoo.org/site...?itok=Ce5BgDjt

I'm guessing if it is his familiar, it's just something he uses to keep an eye on things.. Which could explain why it would be in Elpis (didn't necessarily have to follow us there) and also why it would be in various places on the First and in our Pendants room (umm... creepy!)

It's definitely a running gag (and a pretty funny one) either way.

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It also basically points the way to the exarch when he collapses behind that boulder in Kholusia, if you interact with it and head the way the text says it’s looking. So it’s a running gag that can also have plot relevance.

I dunno if this is a common or old theory or what but my prediction is that the true identities of the Twelve will turn out to be Venat's collaborators, those ancients who assisted her/sacrificed themselves in the summoning of Hydaelyn. Here is my evidence:

https://i.imgur.com/OM6IIAJ.png

I would really like to get more backstory on Hydaelyn's summoning and how events lead to it. The cutscene at the end of Elpis made it seem like Venat acted independently, but we know she had allies, which kind of makes me wonder why she believed that her race was so beyond hope that she had to sunder them.

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Originally Posted by PangTong

I dunno if this is a common or old theory or what but my prediction is that the true identities of the Twelve will turn out to be Venat's collaborators, those ancients who assisted her/sacrificed themselves in the summoning of Hydaelyn.

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I hope it's just a coincidence. Having the 12 all be Venat collaborators would suck for anyone who's not #TeamHydaelyn.

I'm pretty sure the next 24 man revolves around The Twelve, so I'm sure we'll find out. I assume we'll be fighting them, or at least recreations of them. Who knows, they might surprise us. They might be vengeful spirits at this point, mad that they weren't let in on the 12,000 year plan / Sundering. Beings who expected to be leading Ancient Etheirysians got stuck Sundered and leading Sundered people or something.

Cause I mean, they sure as shoot weren't in on the plan from what we could see directly in 6.0. And if all 12 of those blokes/blokettes in the screenshot are the Twelve then that implies that lesser folk in the Hydaelyn movement made the sacrifices to bring her form about.

Maybe they were let in on the plan, and they became bitter after a couple thousand years. Had to be sealed up or something?

Idk, we could spitball all day and get nowhere. Who knows. Maybe they were the first group of Sundered Ascians, and they were the 12 because Emet didn't/couldn't find'em all.

I have some doubts about Hydaelyn/Venat's collaborators being the Twelve due to the fact that the Paragons saw fit to have Menphina's symbol (Or at least that's what we know it as) present on their seats in the Chrysalis.

They shunned Azem for refusing to support Zodiark's summoning, so I don't think they'd want to have anything to do with a different individual who was actively working against them.

Re: 12 followers of Venat

Would add, one of the 12 is Azeyma who supposedly has something to do with Azem/is Azem...and Azem did not participate in Venat's plan. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if Azem's solution to the End of Days was the creation of these gods....moreover, I'm inclined to think they are ancient technology mistaken for gods, or just the first group of leaders in a very young and sundered world that somehow got deified.

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

I hope it's just a coincidence. Having the 12 all be Venat collaborators would suck for anyone who's not #TeamHydaelyn.

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They may all be like The Watcher, creations who were based on the collaborators.

I kinda hope that at least some of the Twelve aren't connected to the Ancients. We've got more Ancient lore with Pandaemonium and I'd rather the Alliance raid be focused on something different.

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Originally Posted by Turethir

I kinda hope that at least some of the Twelve aren't connected to the Ancients. We've got more Ancient lore with Pandaemonium and I'd rather the Alliance raid be focused on something different.

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On one hand I do really hope the theory that the Twelve are based on constructs like The Watcher created by Hydaelyn modeled off of Venat's allies to be the initial aids and guardians of the freshly Sundered World to help societies and the new life rebuild and establish themselves before gracefully leaving and allowing the Sundered to continue on without overlords or overpowered beings to support and shield them from the trials of life and thus gain the emotional strength and willingness to accept that life and thus all the suffering that comes with the joys will be outside of control (aka the point of Sundering and how the Endsinger is defeated). On the other hand, I agree that the Ancients have more than enough focus with the Pandaemonium raid, and I want Eorzean Lore to be high-lighted by the Myths of the Realm. It's in the title. Give focus to the Eorzean religion.

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Originally Posted by kaynide

Would add, one of the 12 is Azeyma who supposedly has something to do with Azem/is Azem...and Azem did not participate in Venat's plan.

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There's possibly thirteen members of the Twelve since Nald and Thal occupy a single "position" despite being two people. So there could still be twelve Venat supporters plus one.


As for the identities of the Twelve, it's already laid on pretty thick that one has their origin from Azem, an Ancient, so it wouldn't be much of a stretch to say that the others are Ancients too. The fact that there's as many members of the Convocation/Hydaelyn summoners as there are gods worshiped in Eorzea for at least 6000 years is also suspicious. On top of that, the one we do know about has connections to both groups. And then there's the fact that each of the Convocation has a real-life zodiac constellation associated with them and in Eorzea each of the Twelve represents a month and everyone has a deity they were "born under". The weird outlier is again Azeyma since her corresponding Convocation member is Azem, whose "constellation" is the sun.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

There's possibly thirteen members of the Twelve since Nald and Thal occupy a single "position" despite being two people. So there could still be twelve Venat supporters plus one.


As for the identities of the Twelve, it's already laid on pretty thick that one has their origin from Azem, an Ancient, so it wouldn't be much of a stretch to say that the others are Ancients too. The fact that there's as many members of the Convocation/Hydaelyn summoners as there are gods worshiped in Eorzea for at least 6000 years is also suspicious. On top of that, the one we do know about has connections to both groups. And then there's the fact that each of the Convocation has a real-life zodiac constellation associated with them and in Eorzea each of the Twelve represents a month and everyone has a deity they were "born under". The weird outlier is again Azeyma since her corresponding Convocation member is Azem, whose "constellation" is the sun.

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Perhaps each member of the Twelve is in fact a protector of a different Shard that tried to help keep it together. 13 Shards plus the Source, 13 members of The Twelve plus Venat.

Imagine if SE did something crazy with one of the new DPS jobs and make it have a sword and wrist launcher as the weapon of choice. Thus they give us the job that plays like Gaius but with the origin being from one of the Unknown Civilizations from Season 2 instead.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Perhaps each member of the Twelve is in fact a protector of a different Shard that tried to help keep it together. 13 Shards plus the Source, 13 members of The Twelve plus Venat.

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Watch the twelve be another Convocation Azem ran off and made after getting kicked from the clubhouse. xD