Your Dark Knight players are unhappy. あなたの暗闇騎士プレイヤーは不幸です

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Originally Posted by Sacrilegion

Yeah why are you here? Things have not improved with politeness at all, quite opposite

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I'm here because everyone memes on the OF. I'm here because I enjoy tanking in vidya. I'm here because the first tank I ever learned to play in 14 was DRK in the tail end of HW. I'm here because I started to raid back in sigmascape on DRK. I'm here because I enjoy the aesthetic of wielding a massive greatsword and using dark magics, and the idea of being a mix of magic and melee attacks is up my alley.

I'm here because you're making a fool out of yourself, whining like a child that's been scolded for throwing a tantrum because mommy wouldn't listen to you demanding she buy you that candy bar.

Be upset. Be disappointed. Be annoyed and want things to improve. But do it as an adult, and responsibly. Present clearly things you're unsatisfied with, and what you'd like to see. Belittling the dev team will not get you anywhere.

For my own input I've boycotted leveling DRK at all until it's kit is addressed in any meaningful capacity. Until Living Dead is redesigned, until Blood Weapon gets a charge system like it should have had in ShB, until the leveling experience and skill acquisition is improved, and until the job's kit is reworked into a more coherent, and more enjoyable manner, I'm not going to level / play DRK in any content.

I'd love to see DRK return to a resource-juggling tank. I'd like to see MP and Blackblood have more interplay. I'd love to see bloodspiller's animation adjusted. But those are superfluous / my own wants.

When it comes to invulns here are the options available for making a recovery.

Hallowed Ground - Clemency, Holy Sheltron, heals from magic attacks

Holmgang - Bloodwhetting(can heal to full HP from nothing pretty much), Equil

Superbolide - Heart of Corundum for immediate excog heal, Brutal Shell, Aurora(not there yet but I heard the 2 charges can stack?)

Living Dead - Souleater, Abyssal Drain however these are incapable of healing your max HP to cleanse the WD status and requires healer assistance

LD is objectively bad given that you can't make a recovery and because it needs to be healed you will never have the full 10 seconds unlike the others. Or you do but you die.

So they either change it to be less of a party drain or they change it in such a way that you as a DRK want to die because it does a lot of damage by making you explode and give a debuff on the mob/boss that makes them do less damage so someone can raise you.

But given the homogenized nature of Tanks right now DRK is at a very clear disadvantage.

LD would be fine IMO if they removed the heal check requirement.

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

I'm here because everyone memes on the OF. I'm here because I enjoy tanking in vidya. I'm here because the first tank I ever learned to play in 14 was DRK in the tail end of HW. I'm here because I started to raid back in sigmascape on DRK. I'm here because I enjoy the aesthetic of wielding a massive greatsword and using dark magics, and the idea of being a mix of magic and melee attacks is up my alley.

I'm here because you're making a fool out of yourself, whining like a child that's been scolded for throwing a tantrum because mommy wouldn't listen to you demanding she buy you that candy bar.

Be upset. Be disappointed. Be annoyed and want things to improve. But do it as an adult, and responsibly. Present clearly things you're unsatisfied with, and what you'd like to see. Belittling the dev team will not get you anywhere.

For my own input I've boycotted leveling DRK at all until it's kit is addressed in any meaningful capacity. Until Living Dead is redesigned, until Blood Weapon gets a charge system like it should have had in ShB, until the leveling experience and skill acquisition is improved, and until the job's kit is reworked into a more coherent, and more enjoyable manner, I'm not going to level / play DRK in any content.

I'd love to see DRK return to a resource-juggling tank. I'd like to see MP and Blackblood have more interplay. I'd love to see bloodspiller's animation adjusted. But those are superfluous / my own wants.

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There are so many threads of coherent ideas for DRK. EW should have people fuming because we have been more than patient. When a job makes me shudder just looking at it and also makes healers want to cry, that should've been fixed years ago. Yet here we all are beating the dead horse. Fixing one or two skills isn't going to fix the issues. The whole kit needs to be scrapped and built from the ground up. When I played Rpr, I felt like I was being taunted by the developers for hoping for a DRK rework.

Living Dead is still a healers nightmare with the requirement of a 100% heal.
Enhanced Unmend is whole levels of please delete.
Two Living Shadow upgrades makes no sense to me because you won't use it that often to notice.
Dark mind and missionary seem very outdated and are niche skills.
No self sustain
TBN requires you to hold back on dps to have minimum mitigation
Delirium is a discount inner release

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Originally Posted by Sacrilegion

There are so many threads of coherent ideas for DRK. EW should have people fuming because we have been more than patient. When a job makes me shudder just looking at it and also makes healers want to cry, that should've been fixed years ago. Yet here we all are beating the dead horse. Fixing one or two skills isn't going to fix the issues. The whole kit needs to be scrapped and built from the ground up. When I played Rpr, I felt like I was being taunted by the developers for hoping for a DRK rework.

Living Dead is still a healers nightmare with the requirement of a 100% heal.
Enhanced Unmend is whole levels of please delete.
Two Living Shadow upgrades makes no sense to me because you won't use it that often to notice.
Dark mind and missionary seem very outdated and are niche skills.
No self sustain
TBN requires you to hold back on dps to have minimum mitigation
Delirium is a discount inner release

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I can agree with most of it, other than Dark Mind/ Missionary.

Magic Resistance is quite usefull for a lot of Content including: P1S (Flails & Both Phase Raidwides), P2S (Every Single Raidwide), P3S (Basically everything deals Fire/ Magic Damage) P4S (Most of the Charged Attacks deal Magic Damage, and a lot of Raidwides as well).

Yes the skills themselves are kinda underwhelming, especially if compared to a lot of the other defensive buffs that tanks have, but at least you have quite a few opportunities to use them.

That Doesn't make it any better; but i'd rather have them adjust/ Improve TBN / LD instead of changing Dark Mind/ Missionary.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

When it comes to invulns here are the options available for making a recovery.

Hallowed Ground - Clemency, Holy Sheltron, heals from magic attacks

Holmgang - Bloodwhetting(can heal to full HP from nothing pretty much), Equil

Superbolide - Heart of Corundum for immediate excog heal, Brutal Shell, Aurora(not there yet but I heard the 2 charges can stack?)

Living Dead - Souleater, Abyssal Drain however these are incapable of healing your max HP to cleanse the WD status and requires healer assistance

LD is objectively bad given that you can't make a recovery and because it needs to be healed you will never have the full 10 seconds unlike the others. Or you do but you die.

So they either change it to be less of a party drain or they change it in such a way that you as a DRK want to die because it does a lot of damage by making you explode and give a debuff on the mob/boss that makes them do less damage so someone can raise you.

But given the homogenized nature of Tanks right now DRK is at a very clear disadvantage.

LD would be fine IMO if they removed the heal check requirement.

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Wouldn't LD without the heal check is just Holmgang with a longer cooldown? I mean thats still preferable to what it is but its kinda depressing that tanks are getting so samey.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

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The weaponskill/spell split with Blood Weapon is shit. Stack system with Delirium would be better. Raiders want 5 charges/stacks.
Enhanced Unmend is shit.
It's self-sustain is shit.
Heavy Thrust Tank playstyle is shit.
Dark Mind is shit. Just absorb the magic damage as health and MP.
Living Dead is SHIT.
Salted Earth and it's Upgrade is a shit Circle of Scorn. Therefore shit.
Abyssal Drain being neutered from Stormblood and being tied to CnS is shit.
TBN is objectively shit. Given the TBN competitors that are miles better. It's still strong but is it "good". Not really. Stormyblood fun times are over brother.
Stalwart Soul and Dark Missionary not being available at lvl70 is shit.
Dark Missionary being Magic only is shit.
Living Shadow just being Scourge with a 2 min CD and a Blood Cost is shit.
Oblation being arguably worse then Rampart is shit.
Shadowbringer being Dark Passenger is shit.

That's a lot of shit to clean up.

And then there's the fact we gave away most of our utility to the other tanks, parry was scuffed, Power Slash among other skills completely removed.

The removal of Blood Price and Dark Arts I loathe entirely. Not to mention Vanilla DRKs such as myself highly preferred the clunky but fast and engaging reactive Tank playstyle that Heavensward offered instead of this slow poor man's Warrior 15 second special DRK they want to throw out at every given opportunity.

...

Only time DRK in XIV has decent sustain is in PvP. Fantastic.

But if DRK is ever looked at *properly* I'll be all for it until then if I play a Tank spec it'll be Gunbreaker.

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That whole post spoke to me from the heart. I've been playing Dark Knight since I started to play in 5.4 and reached HW. Even without having experienced how amazing the class was back then, I still feel like the EW treatment is like a slap in the face, so I shudder to think what people who knew DRK back in 3.0 must feel like. I'm at a point where even though I want to play DRK because of the aesthetic I'm just going to go WAR anyway because I feel tired. Last night I did some extremes unsynced with a friend to fill wondrous tail... We tried Susano EX and I was tanking with a lv90 DRK. I got my shit pushed in. My friend wanted to just give up on trying, but I convinced him to try again with me tanking with a lv80 PLD and we cleared it easily. I was laughing at how ridiculous that was, at how miserably non-existant the sustain is on DRK. After having suffered through the dungeon experience of EW I'm finally done with DRK... at least until they make it feel better.

Seriously, why is oblation not straight up replacing Dark Mind. Who the hell likes Dark Mind? The only more unsatisfying ability I can think of is AST Undraw which literally serves no purpose.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

Wouldn't LD without the heal check is just Holmgang with a longer cooldown? I mean thats still preferable to what it is but its kinda depressing that tanks are getting so samey.

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The solution is very easy. DRK should have Holmgang and WAR should have Living Dead. Because WAR can come back from Living Dead and Holmgang as it works can be made to fit the DRK aesthetic.
Then again... I wouldn't wish Living Dead on any other job.

I had an Idea for a LD Rework which works as follows:

Once LD is activated all incoming Healing (from your 1-2-3, Abyssal Drain, Healing from Healers, automatic Healing over time, Pots etc.) gets "Stored" instead of applied to you. (Effect Stays like that for ~ 10 seconds)
If you happen to die in those 10 Seconds you instead drop to 1HP, Get 6 Seconds of Invuln, and as soon as the Invuln Starts you "Use Up" all of the stored Healing to heal yourself for that exact amount.
If you Don't Die in those 10 Seconds you get Half of the Stored Healing Applied to you Instantly, and Dont Get an Invulnerability.

That way DRK would be able to Heal/ save Himself, while still providing a Strong Invulnerability, without Punishing DRK or the Healer; with the added benefit of keeping true to the "You are on the Edge of Death" thematic behind the Class/Skill.

Feedback Appreciated...

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Originally Posted by Glaringsoul

I can agree with most of it, other than Dark Mind/ Missionary.

Magic Resistance is quite usefull for a lot of Content including: P1S (Flails & Both Phase Raidwides), P2S (Every Single Raidwide), P3S (Basically everything deals Fire/ Magic Damage) P4S (Most of the Charged Attacks deal Magic Damage, and a lot of Raidwides as well).

Yes the skills themselves are kinda underwhelming, especially if compared to a lot of the other defensive buffs that tanks have, but at least you have quite a few opportunities to use them.

That Doesn't make it any better; but i'd rather have them adjust/ Improve TBN / LD instead of changing Dark Mind/ Missionary.

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Pandemonium uses a combination of both magic and physical damage. Dark mind and missionary should mitigate both kinds of damage. I shouldn't be grateful for the few times I get to use them especially if every other tank can just pop one skill typically and have it translate across the table.

Wanna see something funny.

PvE

Dark Missionary - Reduces magic damage taken by self and nearby party members by 10%.
Duration: 15s
90s CD

PvP

Dark Missionary - Reduces damage taken by self and nearby party members by 10%, while increasing HP recovered via healing actions by 10%.
Duration: 10s
45s CD

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Wanna see something funny.

PvE

Dark Missionary - Reduces magic damage taken by self and nearby party members by 10%.
Duration: 15s
90s CD

PvP

Dark Missionary - Reduces damage taken by self and nearby party members by 10%, while increasing HP recovered via healing actions by 10%.
Duration: 10s
45s CD

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Yeah and bloodspiller and quietus too. Shows how much of a sense of humor they have

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Originally Posted by Sacrilegion

Pandemonium uses a combination of both magic and physical damage.

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Pandaemonium uses "a combination of both magic and physical damage" in the same sense that Black Mage does. This is really grasping at straws.

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Originally Posted by Crater

Pandaemonium uses "a combination of both magic and physical damage" in the same sense that Black Mage does. This is really grasping at straws.

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Even so, why should it matter? Why should I have to discriminate between magic and physical? No other tank has to and this isn't HW anymore. DRK is behind compared to the other tanks (dps on tank is secondary at best and if you want to dps, play a dps class then, you have 3 different categories).

I'm not really sure what the physical/magical designations add from a gameplay perspective. You already have a giant red arrow telling you that something is a tankbuster, so none of this was intended as a test of memory.

I will say that if they're committed to damage-type specific defensives, I would like to see Celes' Runic ability added to the game someday. That being said, I know that tanks aren't allowed to have fun defensive moves that provide damage benefits, so it probably makes more sense to give a ability like that to Mystic Knight whenever they decide to make it into a melee dps. Shiiing! MP!

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Originally Posted by Lyth

I'm not really sure what the physical/magical designations add from a gameplay perspective. You already have a giant red arrow telling you that something is a tankbuster, so none of this was intended as a test of memory.

I will say that if they're committed to damage-type specific defensives, I would like to see Celes' Runic ability added to the game someday. That being said, I know that tanks aren't allowed to have fun defensive moves that provide damage benefits, so it probably makes more sense to give a ability like that to Mystic Knight whenever they decide to make it into a melee dps. Shiiing! MP!

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I pitched that idea, instead we got reaper XD

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Originally Posted by Sacrilegion

Even so, why should it matter? Why should I have to discriminate between magic and physical?

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Because there's value in a layer of attack-type specificity that some of us enjoy, it allows the designers to balance skills in ways they couldn't if every skill was required to be type-agnostic, and for those of you who don't enjoy that layer of specificity, there are two tanks who never have to deal with it that you're perfectly free to play if you don't like it. I'm not out here trying to impose attack-type specificity on every tank in the game just because it's something that I enjoy, so I'll thank you not to try imposing your preferences on every tank in the game just because it's something that you enjoy.

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No other tank has to

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Absolutely untrue. The Gunbreaker counterpart to Dark Mind is Camouflage, which loses almost half its mitigative value against magical attacks. While it retains a small amount of value against magic damage, unlike Dark Mind on physical damage, it is also nowhere near as powerful against physical damage as Dark Mind is against magic damage: A high amount of specificity means greater power within that specific niche, while a lower amount of specificity means lesser power within your specific niche.

This principle is extended out to Paladin, as well: The Paladin counterpart to Dark Mind and Camouflage is Passage of Arms, and while the specificity in that case is mechanical rather than based on damage type (needs to be relevant party damage, needs to happen in a situation where people can stack up behind the Paladin), Passage of Arms is more powerful in its niche than Dark Mind is in its niche or Camouflage is in its niche - while being utterly useless outside of that niche.

On top of that, Gunbreaker's Heart of Light is the exact same skill as Dark Knight's Dark Missionary, so in that case both classes "have to worry about" whether raid damage is magical or physical. The idea that this is some DRK-specific burden to bear is just a bunch of "woe is me" self-pity.

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Originally Posted by Crater

Because there's value in a layer of attack-type specificity that some of us enjoy, it allows the designers to balance skills in ways they couldn't if every skill was required to be type-agnostic, and for those of you who don't enjoy that layer of specificity, there are two tanks who never have to deal with it that you're perfectly free to play if you don't like it. I'm not out here trying to impose attack-type specificity on every tank in the game just because it's something that I enjoy, so I'll thank you not to try imposing your preferences on every tank in the game just because it's something that you enjoy.


Absolutely untrue. The Gunbreaker counterpart to Dark Mind is Camouflage, which loses almost half its mitigative value against magical attacks. While it retains a small amount of value against magic damage, unlike Dark Mind on physical damage, it is also nowhere near as powerful against physical damage as Dark Mind is against magic damage: A high amount of specificity means greater power within that specific niche, while a lower amount of specificity means lesser power within your specific niche.

This principle is extended out to Paladin, as well: The Paladin counterpart to Dark Mind and Camouflage is Passage of Arms, and while the specificity in that case is mechanical rather than based on damage type (needs to be relevant party damage, needs to happen in a situation where people can stack up behind the Paladin), Passage of Arms is more powerful in its niche than Dark Mind is in its niche or Camouflage is in its niche - while being utterly useless outside of that niche.

On top of that, Gunbreaker's Heart of Light is the exact same skill as Dark Knight's Dark Missionary, so in that case both classes "have to worry about" whether raid damage is magical or physical. The idea that this is some DRK-specific burden to bear is just a bunch of "woe is me" self-pity.

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Passage of arms doesn't just mitigate one type of damage and helps healers after big raid wide hits, heart of light actually increases healing recieved on top of its mitigation. Camouflage gives you mitigation (not just magic. BTW this was a DRK skill that was ripped from them and given to GNB) on top of a 50% parry rate increase. DRK has absolutely no synergy with other kit and only purpose is deliberate speed runs. No other kit has to worry whether a specific damage is physical or magic at all.

Kind of an incredible reply but probably not for the reasons you would want it to be.

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Originally Posted by Sacrilegion

... heart of light actually increases healing recieved on top of its mitigation ...

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um ... no it doesn't.
copied and pasted straight from the official ability description here ...

"Reduces magic damage taken by self and nearby party members by 10%.
Duration: 15s"

and here is the copied and pasted description for Dark Missionary available here...

"Reduces magic damage taken by self and nearby party members by 10%.
Duration: 15s"

I recommend familiarizing yourself with what the abilities on the different tanks actually do if you want to present informed and rational arguments comparing them.

DRK had its identity ripped from them and given to others and we are left with scraps of what was. Block works across the board on all attacks, with the same percentage as Dark Mind. I don't want a woe is me pity train, I want a damn rework that should of happened years ago. Instead, we get insult to injury for even daring to ask.

Okay I was wrong, sorry. Doesn't change anything though. DRK is outdated

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

Insinuating that the devs are sheltered babies that will flee at the first sign of anything mean is an incredibly self-centered and entitled outlook.

Nobody likes people being rude to them and talking crap to them in pretty much any situation and when you spend a huge part of your life working on something, to have people so flippantly denigrate and insult not only that work, but you personally, guess what it wears on you no matter how tough you like to think you are.
It is very much possible, and actually quite easy, to provide feedback without resorting to rudeness and insults. When you start using insults as the delivery mechanism for your feedback, it quickly stops being constructive criticism and becomes just criticism.
If you want people to listen to you and be receptive to what you are saying, don\\\\\\'t lace it with insults. This applies to life in general, not just here.

Also, in Japanese culture how criticism is provided and the level of direct rudeness that is socially acceptable is very different than in the most Western cultures.
When negative feedback is being presented it is often done in a softer, more round-about way that implies "it

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Firstly, Yoshi-p insinuated that his devs cant take a critical critique, not me although I highly suspect that is the case.

I will give you that culturally they may be more sensitive to western forms of criticism but the rest is bunk. We have given soft criticism for years. YEARS. I’m done softening my tone. I don’t go out of my way to be needlessly vicious but at the same time I won’t tip toe on egg shells. They have wrecked DRK & deserve to hear it loud and clear. I suspect we haven’t heard their vision for DRK bcs I don’t believe the changes are focused around what the players wanted as much as what was easy to raise the skill floor and balance out the tanks long term.

Do you really think any amount of being nice to and whispering sweet nothings into Yoshi’s ear will get him to change LD? You don’t think that was tried? It was.

Like I said, they’ve created the beast. I’ll let them prove me wrong since they have squandered all the good will I ever had towards them regarding DRK. I have a difficult time enjoying the story they created bcs my preferred job is, i believe, a wreck. If they do have a good vision or come up with a good rework I’ll give them praise, I just don’t see it though.

I have never come out and personally attacked the devs. I think they may be thin skinned if they put a job in need of a rework the most on the back burner because their fans are vocal about not liking their work product. I don’t put that in the category of personal attack.

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Originally Posted by Danelo

Firstly, Yoshi-p insinuated that his devs can take a critical critique, not me although I highly suspect that is the case.

I will give you that culturally they may be more sensitive to western forms of criticism but the rest is bunk. We have given soft criticism for years. YEARS. I’m done softening my tone. I don’t go out of my way to be needlessly vicious but at the same time I won’t tip toe on egg shells. They have wrecked DRK & deserve to hear it loud and clear. I suspect we haven’t heard their vision for DRK bcs I don’t believe the changes are focused around what the players wanted as much as what was easy to raise the skill floor and balance out the tanks long term.

Do you really think any amount of being nice to and whispering sweet nothings into Yoshi’s ear will get him to change LD? You don’t think that was tried? It was.

Like I said, they’ve created the beast. I’ll let them prove me wrong since they have squandered all the good will I ever had towards them regarding DRK. I have a difficult time enjoying the story they created bcs my preferred job is, i believe, a wreck. If they do have a good vision or come up with a good rework I’ll give them praise, I just don’t see it though.

I have never come out and personally attacked the devs. I think they may be thin skinned if they put a job in need of a rework the most on the back burner because their fans are vocal about not liking their work product. I don’t put that in the category of personal attack.

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Exactly what I'm saying. DRK is a disaster right now and I don't care how good it can POTENTIALLY be in raids. That all will depend on the rest of your group. If your healers are less than perfect, you're dead. Dps is constantly hugging the floor, you're dead. Healer never seen living dead... we get it. It has no leg to stand on if it must fend for itself till healers get the dps topped off. Plus it's kit is janky and none of it really flows together and also its synergy is garbage with everyone else outside TBN.

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Originally Posted by Danelo

... I don’t go out of my way to be needlessly vicious ...
... I have never come out and personally attacked the devs ...

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Then what pray tell is the very post I quoted in the post that you in turn quoted?

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Originally Posted by Danelo

Unfortunately sqex devs, who have never been to a bar, heard a crass joke, been otherwise exposed to “rough” language and are unable to take harsh but constructive criticism will not see this post due to the gratuitous use of “fucking”, 1 time, early in the post.

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That sure looks like a personal attack. You are not commenting about the work itself, you are directly mocking them as people. Even if done "sarcastically" or if "it was just a joke", the target of the mockery is them, personally, not the work itself. That is not constructive criticism of their work or the game, that is a personal attack. If you can't see that, I don't know what to tell you asides from maybe advising some self-reflection on your standards for communicating with others.

I am all for people voicing issues they have with the game, I do just that frequently, I just draw the line when people act like asses when they go about it. I'm not speaking specifically about you, you are far from the worst offender, but quite a good number of posters have been going way too far with their supposed "constructive criticism".
There is nothing wrong in being upset and there is nothing wrong with being persistent in voicing that you are, but when you lose yourself in that negativity and turn things into vitriol, you need to learn to stop and dial it back, not just for the good of those you are interacting with but for your own good. That kind of anger and resentment just feeds itself and never results in anything good.

Wait, so I can’t illustrate a point colorfully? All of that says exactly the same thing: the devs seem to not be able to look past criticism that doesn’t pass a purity test. All of them have more than likely experienced those things I’ve listed because they are general life experiences.

I dislike the faux outrage shield being used to not acknowledge the forums’ criticism of DRK. That is the big picture.

If expressing my displeasure with DRK walks a fine line in the realm of sarcasm then so be it. I think your quotes of me above are a far cry from the type of personal attacks you, and I as well, mean to avoid from any future posters; From that perspective, I can see the merit here but, my post was far from something to be worthy of personal offense by the devs.

Hey devs, the majority of the issues were talking about today were brought up in 5.0 (and in one case even 3.0), and now 30 months and literal hundreds of millions of subscriber dollars later, you still haven't communicated any plan or even intent to fix them. You're right, we're being harsh. It's just you didn't know these issues existed which led us to wrongly believe you don't play attention to the forums, and we were safe to vent our frustrations to each other. Your white knights rightly stepped in and reminded us that stuff will probably maybe get better eventually though so you should gift them some sub time or something.

Very Respectfully,
DRK Players

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Originally Posted by Weetzlo

Hey devs, the majority of the issues were talking about today were brought up in 5.0 (and in one case even 3.0), and now 30 months and literal hundreds of millions of subscriber dollars later, you still haven't communicated any plan or even intent to fix them. You're right, we're being harsh. It's just you didn't know these issues existed which led us to wrongly believe you don't play attention to the forums, and we were safe to vent our frustrations to each other. Your white knights rightly stepped in and reminded us that stuff will probably maybe get better eventually though so you should gift them some sub time or something.

Very Respectfully,
DRK Players

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That is some grade A sarcasm XD

What's ironic is that they simplified so many aspects after 5.0 and now DRK has little to no self sustain. Imagine how many players will run into complications when they die to a tank buster or trash mobs in a dungeon. If part of your ToS is already draconian in measure, perhaps you'd better eliminate the chances people start arguments over why you picked a certain tank over another when you inevitably wipe.

Why then is it on the player to give them feedback when their design philosophy for example, already contradicts itself without any player input whatsoever? There's a tank with a wide array of issues that will absolutely cause friction and issues in content if not adressed sooner than later.

The reason I imagine many don't agree with the 'civil' approach is probably because they are absolutely known to cave to pressure. The Viera issue and demand for male Viera must have been the biggest expectation come forward Endwalker. Do you honestly believe they can't fix DRK? They absolutely can but refuse to.

Harassing them and being egregious won't change the situation clearly. However, if a developer tells you to be respectful and polite, then don't expect much to change. I'm shocked this was said by Yoshi P himself. This is a huge red flag.

I'd like all the complainers to also think about how the last years haven't exactly been easy on any of the people working on that game. So if you can tone it down, I think it's the very least you can do.

Except these are issues that go way back than just a couple years. PLD low on dps? Sure, we can fix that. Warrior blinks weird? Emergency maintenance, buff the shit out of them

Except these are issues that go way back than just a couple years. PLD low on dps? Sure, we can fix that. Warrior blinks weird? Emergency maintenance, buff the shit out of them

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Originally Posted by NautiaHadas

I'd like all the complainers to also think about how the last years haven't exactly been easy on any of the people working on that game.

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Shadow Bringers.

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Originally Posted by Shin96

The reason I imagine many don't agree with the 'civil' approach is probably because they are absolutely known to cave to pressure. The Viera issue and demand for male Viera must have been the biggest expectation come forward Endwalker. Do you honestly believe they can't fix DRK? They absolutely can but refuse to.

Harassing them and being egregious won't change the situation clearly. However, if a developer tells you to be respectful and polite, then don't expect much to change. I'm shocked this was said by Yoshi P himself. This is a huge red flag.

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It's a system of priority development, Male Viera in lore accuracy isn't supposed to be playable, only added in because of the fan requests, and you cannot deny the requests is roughly 5-10x larger than a Dark Knight fix. At the same time they have to meet the schedule for releases. It's not copium to admit SMN Pet Fix have been on a higher demand vs Dark Knight, and honestly I thought Dark Knight wasn't that bad in SHBs, it only feels terrible to play in EW in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Undeadfire

It's a system of priority development, Male Viera in lore accuracy isn't supposed to be playable, only added in because of the fan requests, and you cannot deny the requests is roughly 5-10x larger than a Dark Knight fix. At the same time they have to meet the schedule for releases. It's not copium to admit SMN Pet Fix have been on a higher demand vs Dark Knight, and honestly I thought Dark Knight wasn't that bad in SHBs, it only feels terrible to play in EW in my opinion.

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Bugfixes > Balance.

It makes sense because you need to gather data on how stuff performs, to figure out how you want to balance it.
If something does not work as it should the data (and feedback) you gather is skewed; which is why bugfixes are always top priority.

Male Viera was the "New Race" for this expansion.
And while that sounds stupid the upfront development for most of MViera was already done/ pulled from other Races.
Think Hyur Skeleton with the ear physics of FViera Pasted onto it, which is already like 60-70% of the Bulk Work.

Not to forget that basically after the release of ShB (after the party is done) you go back to think "What can we do now?" which means that they either gave no consideration to DRK already back then, or another project took up so much time, that they had to try and just "Wing it", after they noticed they cant get anything done until EW, by letting the C - Group made up of Interns handle it. (Basically the only way how i can see "Enhanced Unmend" being Greenlighted in the Same expansion as "Double Down/HoC", "Bloodwhetting", and "Holy Shelltron".)

What is the more Interesting Question is What Class took up so much Development?
And the anwser to that is SGE & RPR, with some odd resources also spent on completely overhauling SMN, which i admit was necessary.

And Yes DRK wasn't "Bad" in ShB it was the exact Median, Becuase the other tanks had their Base Mitigation, and the only thing coming Close to TBN was "Shake it off" which required massive investment to reach the same shield amounts (at the upside of being AoE). DRK's Damage was and is not bad, due to weaving, and that we just have a Weapon with an overall Really good Damage value, and some high potency GCD&OGCD's.

The Issue is that we cannot Self Heal anywhere as effectively as the other tanks, Half of our Mitigations only works on magic damage, and while it was a key motif of the expansion to get your main Mitigation "Upgraded" we got Enhanced Unmend, which isn't even a Trait and should have been part of it normally...

Or in other words, Beyond Reasonable doubt we got DELIBERATELY Sucker Punched, and anyone who doesn't wanna see that, is basically Just Gaslighting Temselves.

DRK in its Current state should not have been launched, and i really hope that whoever signed off this mess gets held resposible for creating it.

Just to Clarify:
I Dont wish that person any harm or Evil, i dont even want an apology.
I Just want them to finally fix it.

What hurts the most is that someone green-lighted everything. They saw what everyone else got and what DRK got and said "this is OK."

Yes, Stormblood DRK was horrible. Yes, Shadowbringers DRK was boring.

However, neither felt like they slapped a bandaid and cried out it's good.

This after years and years of feedback. Of not reworking Living Dead for 'lore reasons' or because they 'never noticed' complaints about Blood Weapon.

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Originally Posted by Mekhana

What hurts the most is that someone green-lighted everything. They saw what everyone else got and what DRK got and said "this is OK."

Yes, Stormblood DRK was horrible. Yes, Shadowbringers DRK was boring.

However, neither felt like they slapped a bandaid and cried out it's good.

This after years and years of feedback. Of not reworking Living Dead for 'lore reasons' or because they 'never noticed' complaints about Blood Weapon.

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I started Playing during ShB so i can't comment on how SB DRK was, or how HW DRK was in comparison to ShB/EW.

But i for my part liked the ShB DRK. Yes it certainly had its up and downs, but for the most part i felt that due to the high damage, and TBN, that the class was enjoyable.

After finding keybindings that allowed me to comfortably weave i had no more issues with that either.

However i feel like Living Shadow as an ability was a missed opportunity.

I Thought i'd get a mirror image of me that uses the same skills as me (at lower potency), and works as a great overlap with your Burst window in which you "Unleash your Dark Self"

What we got is a glorified Pet that deals a bit of damage with some visual effects, and doesnt interact with you the player at all, which is really boring for the concept of "Conjure a simulacrum of your darkside to fight alongside you." if you'd ask me.

If i wanted to have a Pet Fraybuncle that i can summon, i'd play SMN or SCH instead.

Also i dont get the Hate about blood weapon, I get Why it is Bad, and i'd rather have it read as "your next X gcd's restore mana" and maybe just removed and the extra mana added onto Delirium, but i dont think Blood Weapon is Horrible or completely Useless.

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Originally Posted by Glaringsoul

snip

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So for context

You've missed the dark that everybody fell in love with, and so far all you have played is this shoddy marauder knock off. You never got to experience dark when it was its own job

You weren't there when we had the depth of choosing what and when to spend dark arts and mp on
You never got to see the cool animations that everyone loved
You sadly did not get to experience having actual self heal on drk (at least in aoe)
You haven't experienced the thrill of having blood weapon provide haste
You did not have the thrill of playing a tank that rewarded skillful play with a superb gameplay loop that was different from the other tanks

So you've never had to see everything that you love and cherish get dumbed down, ripped away and nerfed into the dirt year after year with nary a peep from the devs explaining why

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

Shadow Bringers.

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The skill, the expansion, the sword. Shadowbringer

Just...can the devs bother to listen to the DRK community for once? It's about the same with DRK as it is with the Healing Community at large: We want more things to do during downtime instead of pressing ONE BUTTON(Three in DRK's case).

Just playing DRK right now I really can't get over how bad it feels. We still have Dark Mind, which is nigh useless in 90% of scenarios due to the prominence of Physical Damage(and yes, it does its job when it actually is Magic). I don't even have Dark Mind on my hotbar for this reason alone except when raiding.

Living Dead is STILL the worst Tank CD in the entire game - mainly because you die if the Healers can't burst you up to max, when one has full-blown invulnerability, one has the same at the cost of HP = 1, one has absolutely no cost and is the equivalent of Living Dead without having the issue of dying after correct usage. The community has been complaining about it since its inception. Fix it.

Also, these new 'tools' that DRK got...they're pretty sh*t in comparison to all the new tools the other three got(and yes, the other tanks' CD and gameplay flow is 100x better). Also, the capstone? Shadowbringer? The expansion? The sword? How disingenous can we be when DRK is in a bad spot for the populace? People won't want to play the job because it feels like you're just swinging a giant sword around and...well, just having nothing to do after you spam your buttons in the first 30s of an encounter.

If anything, DRK needs a rework the same way WAR got a rework in Stormblood mid-patch(which was unprecedented at the time). It doesn't take an entire expansion to fix the job - just fix the issues people have with it and try to make it "Not Warrior, Not Gunbreaker, and Definitely Not Paladin".

In this case it took them 3 and now they're working on a 4th expansion with DRK getting nothing but lazy and nonsensical garbage.