Post Your Complete Garuda Weapon Set!

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Originally Posted by ShadowCadja

We must be in different servers...

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Probably..

They don't have to ban anyone. Disappearing Garuda weapons is a decent enough punishment.

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Originally Posted by Req

I am just going off of what I have personally seen on my server. Pretty much every party that goes into garuda is using the black mage method currently, I think I have seen maybe one or two parties at most that aren't. That is across all time zones that I have been out there. Theres obviously probably a few parties that I have missed since I didn't see the party of every job go in and they are on my server, but the bottom line is, if there is a simple way to do things then everyone will do it. Kind of like how after they patched moogle there was only like one linkshell that could actually win and everyone else came out dead for like a week afterwards.

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Are all of those parties successful with it?
Can mediocre BLMs do this strategy thing?

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Originally Posted by Req

Kind of like how after they patched moogle there was only like one linkshell that could actually win and everyone else came out dead for like a week afterwards.

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LMAO. Not sure if your server sucks or what but we got it within hours after the exploit fix (multiple linkshells on Mysidia).

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Originally Posted by Ruri

LMAO. Not sure if your server sucks or what but we got it within hours after the exploit fix (multiple linkshells on Mysidia).

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What is a "Mysidia?"

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Originally Posted by Ruri

LMAO. Not sure if your server sucks or what but we got it within hours after the exploit fix (multiple linkshells on Mysidia).

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^ this~~~~

I like how people who are in the same server keep saying things like, "I'm not sure what server you're from, but..." and "Not sure if your server sucks or what but..."

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Originally Posted by Denmo

I like how people who are in the same server keep saying things like, "I'm not sure what server you're from, but..." and "Not sure if your server sucks or what but..."

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Because we weren't all in different servers when Moogle came out... right....

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Originally Posted by Denmo

I like how people who are in the same server keep saying things like, "I'm not sure what server you're from, but..." and "Not sure if your server sucks or what but..."

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I don't know what server you are from, but on my server we like to talk about how crappy the players on other servers are to make ourselves feel superior.

But yeah, the biggest issue was there was a handful of players that could actually handle the dynamics of the fight the way it was intended spread out across multiple linkshells. So once the patch came alot of people needed alot of practice on how to do the fight before they could consistently win because they only knew how to win using the exploit.

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Originally Posted by Req

I don't know what server you are from, but on my server we like to talk about how crappy the players on other servers are to make ourselves feel superior.

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D'aw, so cute. Isn't he adorable?

This thread turned into lol quickly.

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Originally Posted by Denmo

D'aw, so cute. Isn't he adorable?

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You seem upset.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

Yoshida has stated quite clearly that this was not supposed to be possible for Garuda, it was a dev oversight. It was clearly an exploit by anyone that did it, and once yoshi confirmed it *was* an exploit that ends any discussion about whether its cheating or not. Yoshida confirmed it was an exploit. Yes it is cheating. There is no way around it, so your opinion, while you are welcome to maintain it, is not based on the facts of the matter right now as far as game designers are concerned. The facts of the matter are that Yoshi says its an exploit, so it is an exploit. But we all knew this before Yoshi even said it. Cheating to get rewards is not something anyone should really respect, and the OP pretty much had it coming to him by making it so obvious. I do agree ppl went too far, but they always go too far.

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So I guess groups that skipped phase 2 would be considered exploiters too as well right? What about the groups that are able to kill Miser's Mistress before she even moves rendering the majority of that encounter pointless? Or players that used certain abilities/return to territory to solo NMs back in the days? All this is just players making note of encounters and adjusting to the AI. Yoshi did acknowledge that this was oversight but at the same time commended the players for being able to do such a thing.

At the end of the day, this is good for the general populace since it allows the devs to adjust to the players ingenuity and hopefully create better encounters where the enemy AI isn't so easily abused.

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Originally Posted by Zyph

You seem upset.

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http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ln...z08go1_500.gif

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Originally Posted by Kikosho

So I guess groups that skipped phase 2 would be considered exploiters too as well right? What about the groups that are able to kill Miser's Mistress before she even moves rendering the majority of that encounter pointless? Or players that used certain abilities/return to territory to solo NMs back in the days? All this is just players making note of encounters and adjusting to the AI. Yoshi did acknowledge that this was oversight but at the same time commended the players for being able to do such a thing.

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We can go through every little situation in the game, and argue it all day. As far as I know, this is the only encounter in which Yoshi said "was not intended". So I wont say shit about anything else except Garuda. Skipping Aerial Blast is, in fact, an exploit..period. Yoshi made it pretty clear. Using developmental oversights to your advantage is the definition of an exploit. No one wants to admit it to themselves, but that is indeed what it is. Everyone knows whether they intentionally abused the exploit or not. I'm not passing judgement im delivering facts here. The fact of the matter is skipping aerial blast was not an intended mechanic, thus abusing it makes it an exploit. You're exploiting a developmental error. Finding these errors is part of our jobs as players. Continuing to exploit them is not. And Yoshi should rightly commend them for finding an error their dev team was entirely unaware of. On top of that, it takes quite a bit of damage to exploit that weakness in programming. That still doesn't change the irrevocable fact that it is an exploit. Trying to rationalize it away is just silly. Props to those who found it, but those who continued to abuse it deserve no props at all outside of being able to reach such dps numbers. We don't know for sure if the other situations you described were intended or not. We know for a fact that this one wasn't, so its the only one I can say is definitively an exploit.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

Skipping Aerial Blast is, in fact, an exploit..period.

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Guys... Guys... we are DPSing WAY too hard... we are in danger of not seeing Aerial Blast....
Dammit guys.... No more nukes... Im serious... we're bordering on Exploitative here...
Hey... Who just threw that last Thunder combo? Seriously guys...

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Guys... Guys... we are DPSing WAY too hard... we are in danger of not seeing Aerial Blast....
Dammit guys.... No more nukes... Im serious... we're bordering on Exploitative here...
Hey... Who just threw that last Thunder combo? Seriously guys...

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If you beat Garuda before Aerial Blast while prepared for it and the phases after, props to you.
If you beat Garuda before Aerial Blast while intend to exploit it as a bug or die trying, well, any n00b can do it.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Guys... Guys... we are DPSing WAY too hard... we are in danger of not seeing Aerial Blast....
Dammit guys.... No more nukes... Im serious... we're bordering on Exploitative here...
Hey... Who just threw that last Thunder combo? Seriously guys...

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If you dps too hard straight away without stopping at around 60% for the last plumes you force her to Aerial Blast much earlier and its physically impossible to kill her before she does Aerial Blast, which is why the blm burn strat involves slow dps until a certain point and than full out dps.

Its not a case of doing too much dps its a case of creating a strategy where you can avoid the hardest part of the fight.

If Yoshi believes skipping phase 2 is also unintended im sure he will design the fight so she Aerial Blasts at 50% no matter how fast/slow you kill it so you are forced into phase 2.

And surprisingly the LS's that kill it normal will still be able to kill it.

I wouldn't be so sure about the LS's BLM burning it.

Not sure why I'm replying to this but I feel compelled to state that when we first BLM burned Garuda we were not aiming to "use an exploit." Timing when not to attack and when to go full on zerg is a strategy that we used for ourselves in the past for a stronghold NM that spawns an army of adds at every 25% HP. We started this there in order to gain, save and have at the ready the kill power (TP, MP) to zerg it down before we were overwhelmed by 50 additional mobs. If we went too hard too soon we would sometimes run out of gas before it would die and be overwhelmed and killed while struggling to finish him at 5% health. That was the strategy that we used to kill Garuda before Aerial Blast. We were not plotting how to cheat the fight or take advantage of an oversight on the part of the developers. Our aim was to be innovative, not to exploit a flaw in the design.

Ironically enough, we have likely benefited from our 3:30 kill strategy less than 95% of the people who have seen and replicated it. I think we've done Garuda a grand total of six times since making the video public and feel no immediate rush to zerg all the weapons to completion since they're not that incredible and we're capable of beating it any number of ways with any number of classes.

Darklight bodies are more important to us than glowing wind staves.

I will say the fight (as intended) is the most fun of any content SE has given us to date. I admit and agree that it's unfortunate few people will need it or be interested by the time the AI is changed to trigger Aerial Blast at a set HP% regardless of time or damage.

I don't think the real issue is `class stacking` or dev oversights. The real issue is limited content which we assume 2.0 will remedy. If the game has plenty to do, with high end and extremely challenging endgame content for parties as well as alliances, I highly doubt people will be that worried about who is getting Garuda weapons in a BLM party.

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Originally Posted by DarthTaru

Not sure why I'm replying to this but I feel compelled to state that when we first BLM burned Garuda we were not aiming to "use an exploit." Timing when not to attack and when to go full on zerg is a strategy that we used for ourselves in the past for a stronghold NM that spawns an army of adds at every 25% HP. We started this there in order to gain, save and have at the ready the kill power (TP, MP) to zerg it down before we were overwhelmed by 50 additional mobs. If we went too hard too soon we would sometimes run out of gas before it would die and be overwhelmed and killed while struggling to finish him at 5% health. That was the strategy that we used to kill Garuda before Aerial Blast. We were not plotting how to cheat the fight or take advantage of an oversight on the part of the developers. Our aim was to be innovative, not to exploit a flaw in the design.

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Idk why you're replying either because frankly you have no reason to defend yourself. Finding an exploit is not the same as abusing an exploit, and if it wasn't for you the exploit probably would not have been found. You should be proud. Of course if you or anyone else continues to abuse it *after* realizing it was an exploit...well then thats just exploiting. As I've said, ppl know if they intentionally exploited a broken mechanic or not. So again, you have no reason to defend yourself.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

Guys... Guys... we are DPSing WAY too hard... we are in danger of not seeing Aerial Blast....
Dammit guys.... No more nukes... Im serious... we're bordering on Exploitative here...
Hey... Who just threw that last Thunder combo? Seriously guys...

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Just lol. That's all you get.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

Just lol. That's all you get.

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hahaha... we have fun on these forums.

http://files.myopera.com/philharris/...oter_Freak.jpg

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Originally Posted by viion

Nothing changes.

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Yeah, nothing changes like how The Dreamers quests are required to complete my tracker even though they are not availble. They stare me in the eye everytime I update my pad...and it NEVER CHANGES.

Oh, you meant this...umm, okay. My thoughts are as follows:

1. Moogle had an exploit. Death wins. Remember? Some people used them, some called them things, some wanted the drops.

2. Cheating at an MMO is like cheating at solitare.

3. Its my birthday and im in Vegas and I just woke up from like 4 hours sleep from an all night crazed zerg on life. As far as I can tell, I am about 2k up and I was going to logon game on my laptop while we wait for room service, but I just can't be bothered.

4. Being just contaminates the void.

This goes back to a very old circular argument ever-present in XI.

Nothing in the world is black and white, and the same holds true for the MMO world as well. People have varied opinions; however, the group who decides whether something interesting is an example of exploitation vs. smart optimization is ultimately SE and SE alone. We as the XI/XIV community argue on the forums, but we all have varied opinions. The only one that matters is SE's b/c they are in charge of game balance. If they deemed this BLM burn idea legit, a lot of people would be frustrated, but it would be legit. Best example I can think of for this is Utsusemi tanking in XI. Far more broken than half the stuff they deemed exploit in XI but they let it be and it became common / required strategy.

To the minority of the community that actually pushes and comes up with these crazy min-max ideas like the BLM burn Garuda idea, it's not about some raging philosophical argument about game balance and exploits - it's simply about min-maxing and pushing the current mechanics of the game. We do, then let SE decide if this is exemplary strategy vs. an exploit needing a patch. It's a very necessary aspect of the community because SE cannot be 100% in catching these in testing. They rely on players to push the boundaries, then they react accordingly to preserve game balance.

Now to play devil's advocate here. The real interesting philosophical discussion here should not be if this Garuda burn is an 'exploit' or not, but instead how would you feel if Legacy had done this, hidden it and farmed the crap out of it at their leisure for 3 months, then told everyone? Now that's an interesting discussion. Spoken like a true XI LM-17 I guess.

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Originally Posted by MeowyWowie

You're sad to see an exploit being fixed?

I remember a time not too long ago when people here were asking for more difficult and dynamic content. Garuda gave us that, yet 95% of the playerbase chooses to abuse an exploit rendering what is actually a very fun and tactical fight into a plain old boring tank and spank encounter. That makes me sad.

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And that is exactly it, "95% dont want to do it the legit way", why you think that is? You're missing something very big here =)

Plus what you see exploitable is not what I see exploitable, this is no different than zerging Kirin in XI.

It is a Strategy, weather you like to see it like that or not, if a country wants to invade another do they do it in a fair legit way? No, they time everything right, exploit anything they can, and nothing is pretty pictures.

Sure, it is an exploit, that does not mean it is not a strategy, even a "legit way" you will exploit something, will you exploit wind element and put wind resistance on, exploit its positioning and hide behind it, exploit plume aoe by standing far away, yada yada, everything to anti something is exploiting its weakness end of day.

As far harder fights, either you're listening to some loud people who dont speak for the majority or you're confusing this "tough fight" with something we asked for, the legit way is not really tough, its a matter of just surviving and standing in the right place in at the right time. Just like Ifrit and Chimera with "safe spots".

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Originally Posted by ChickNorris

Yeah, nothing changes like how The Dreamers quests are required to complete my tracker even though they are not availble. They stare me in the eye everytime I update my pad...and it NEVER CHANGES..

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Click the http://xivpads.com/images/icons/misc/close.png that says Add Quest to Ignore List, :/.

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Originally Posted by viion

And that is exactly it, "95% dont want to do it the legit way", why you think that is? You're missing something very big here =).

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Then 95% of the playerbase will always choose loot over challenge because they're lazy. It hadn't even been a week and people were complaining because they wanted free loot instead of something they had to work at. If most of the community can't handle a week or more of learning to beat new content then what they really need is separate baby content just for them to keep them occupied. Don't shit up what's supposed to be the hardest encounter in the game because of some people's overinflated sense of loot entitlement. Everyone should realize from what happened with Ifrit and Moogle that this will be made easier eventually. If you really need to beat new content right away, you should stop complaining about challenge and embrace it.

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Originally Posted by Raikki

Then 95% of the playerbase will always choose loot over challenge because they're lazy. It hadn't even been a week and people were complaining because they wanted free loot instead of something they had to work at. If most of the community can't handle a week or more of learning to beat new content then what they really need is separate baby content just for them to keep them occupied. Don't shit up what's supposed to be the hardest encounter in the game because of some people's overinflated sense of loot entitlement. Everyone should realize from what happened with Ifrit and Moogle that this will be made easier eventually. If you really need to beat new content right away, you should stop complaining about challenge and embrace it.

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I get your point and I kind of agree with you, but "Loot" is not the goal.

Think about it, you can die easily doing it and you have to wait 15 minutes even on a loss, and the strategy only shaves off a few minutes. The amount of losses you can get just ups the amount of loss chances at weapon.

If you did it legit, you could pretty much 100% guarantee a win, and you only need to do it 140 times to be 7/7, which is going to happen very fast weather you use this exploit or not. The legit videos are all under 10 minutes kill time.

It is just, an easy strategy once you meet the strict requirements. Its a "safe spot" strategy, like Ifrit.

A lot of people know how to do it legit, my entire LS did it legit before this came about, this is just more preferred because the legit way isnt harder, it isnt more challenging, it isnt even more fun and it is kind of a drag+cluster fuck XD so they prefer to do it like this.

It is kind of more fun for some, I find it more fun this way! XD

Can we make this thread about how the OP has his exp bar and clock on the lower right?

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Originally Posted by viion

The legit way isnt harder, it isnt more challenging, it isnt even more fun and it is kind of a drag+cluster fuck XD so they prefer to do it like this.

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We both know that's not true. Countless LS's can't beat the fight legit and are farming it via BLM burn.

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Originally Posted by Raikki

We both know that's not true. Countless LS's can't beat the fight legit and are farming it via BLM burn.

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wait, BLM burning isn't legit? that's how I do ifrit and moogle, because fuck if I'm going to struggle when I need to beat it like 90 times.

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Originally Posted by Majidah

wait, BLM burning isn't legit? that's how I do ifrit and moogle, because fuck if I'm going to struggle when I need to beat it like 90 times.

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BLM burning Ifrit and Moogle doesn't skip all the fight mechanics. BLM burning will be "legit" once Garuda is patched.

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Originally Posted by Raikki

BLM burning Ifrit and Moogle doesn't skip all the fight mechanics. BLM burning will be "legit" once Garuda is patched.

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ah no idea about that, I haven't tried garuda hard yet.
but basically they are killing garuda before it uses its 2HRs right?

seems a screw up on SE's design

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Originally Posted by Raikki

We both know that's not true. Countless LS's can't beat the fight legit and are farming it via BLM burn.

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I dont know its true, I have seen people kill it legit, there were plenty of Garuda Kills before the BLM spree happened, plenty of videos as well. You have no proof they cant do it legit, just like i have no proof they can, thus its moot.

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Originally Posted by Raikki

BLM burning Ifrit and Moogle doesn't skip all the fight mechanics. BLM burning will be "legit" once Garuda is patched.

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I skip avoiding plumes legitimately by standing in a spot i know they never spawn, skipping that game design XD

Had our first LS member get to 7/7 weapons last night. Most people have (or at least have enough headdresses) to get to 3-4 weapons now as well. We have never even attempted this fight using a BLM burn setup.

I don't understand how 90% of the community would choose to not participate in probably the most balanced and challenging fight that SE has implemented to date.

While frustrating at times to get all the mechanics of the different phases down (like any fight I suppose), the feeling that you get when you finally succeed is one of the reasons that make MMOs fun to play.

If there was a treasure chest in the cave where you enter the Garuda fight and you could either fight Garuda to try and earn the weapons or simply click the chest, would all these shells just be skipping the fight altogether? Do gamers not enjoy the challenge of overcoming anything anymore or is it really just about a virtual piece of gear?

Eh, I got a few minutes before leaving for work, so let me dissect this real quick.

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Originally Posted by viion

And that is exactly it, "95% dont want to do it the legit way", why you think that is? You're missing something very big here =)

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This is obvious. It's because they couldn't win using a legit strategy. Anyone that's been doing Garuda since it was released could tell you this. Countless shells in the zone, all of them exiting the battle dead time and time again. Once an easier strategy was shown to them they all flocked to it and suddenly shells are beating her left and right.

It just so happens that this new strategy exploits broken game mechanics by bypassing more than half of what the real fight contains. The sad part is most don't care whether they're cheating or not and will try to rationalize their opinion on the matter even though it's been confirmed by the head hancho himself that it is in fact an exploit.

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Originally Posted by viion

Plus what you see exploitable is not what I see exploitable, this is no different than zerging Kirin in XI.

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I'll agree with you here. This really is no different than a Kirin, KV, Vrtra, DL, Cirrate Christelle or any <insert random FFXI NM encounter> Kraken Club burn. However, using that strategy on those mobs was considered legit even though it was still cheesy and required no real skill, only deep pockets (Yes, I too had a KC DRK so don't try to argue KC burns were difficult).

The Garuda manaburn is more comparable to an Aboslute Virtue KC burn, in more ways than 1 but for the sake of argument I'll just list the obvious one. It was considered an exploit by the dev team and soon patched to where it could no longer be used. Sound familiar?

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Originally Posted by viion

It is a Strategy, weather you like to see it like that or not, if a country wants to invade another do they do it in a fair legit way? No, they time everything right, exploit anything they can, and nothing is pretty pictures.

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Please tell me I'm imagining things and that you didn't really compare a video game to war. Nothing is fair in war, you fight to win not play by the rules. This comment is so shortsighted I seriously /facepalmed when I read it.

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Originally Posted by viion

Sure, it is an exploit, that does not mean it is not a strategy, even a "legit way" you will exploit something, will you exploit wind element and put wind resistance on, exploit its positioning and hide behind it, exploit plume aoe by standing far away, yada yada, everything to anti something is exploiting its weakness end of day.

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That's true, but in game terms an exploit usually refers to taking advantage of a broken game mechanic (which is not OK). This is just another example of the rationalization I mentioned earlier.

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Originally Posted by viion

As far harder fights, either you're listening to some loud people who dont speak for the majority or you're confusing this "tough fight" with something we asked for, the legit way is not really tough, its a matter of just surviving and standing in the right place in at the right time. Just like Ifrit and Chimera with "safe spots".

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I'm confused by the first part of this paragraph. Are you saying that only the vocal minority has been asking for a harder game? Really don't know what you're getting at here.

If you'd actually won using a legit strategy you would know there's more to it than just standing in the right spot at the right time, although it is a very large aspect of the fight itself. You can say you have, but until i see a video of DoW doing it, like they have with every other encounter in this game, I wouldn't believe you anyways. Honestly, I was a bit surprised Mog never posted a strategy on this fight but it makes sense now I guess. Just the fact that you compared this fight to Chimera shows that you really know nothing about it.

In conclusion, I don't mean to attack you or your LS with this post. I just find it very disappointing to see people defending exploits like these. I would respect you and others like you more if you kept trying a legitimate strategy and kept failing and perhaps asking for help rather than abusing exploits then coming here on the forums and defending them after they've already been confirmed to be "not working as intended."

It's really quite sad and speaks volumes for the players in this game. Essentially "bots and RMT are the devil, but cheating is not cheating if I'm dong it."

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Originally Posted by MeowyWowie

Eh, I got a few minutes before leaving for work, so let me dissect this real quick.

This is obvious. It's because they couldn't win using a legit strategy. Anyone that's been doing Garuda since it was released could tell you this. Countless shells in the zone, all of them exiting the battle dead time and time again. Once an easier strategy was shown to them they all flocked to it and suddenly shells are beating her left and right.

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My LS can kill it normally, just choose not to, as there is no point when this is far better, plenty of other LS's do it normally and this way, depends how they feel about it.

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Originally Posted by MeowyWowie

Please tell me I'm imagining things and that you didn't really compare a video game to war. Nothing is fair in war, you fight to win not play by the rules. This comment is so shortsighted I seriously /facepalmed when I read it.

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Because maybe you're closed minded. I play games to win, i fight to win, i dont care about anything else, i play for me. So yes im comparing it to war, compare it to anything, Football, you exploit weaknesses in the team, if they shit at defense, you exploit it. etc.

cant be bothered with rest of your nonsense, just going to end up in a cycle, and i just see it as you being super jelly lol. Because not only did you complete misunderstand me with your own idiotic reasoning, you started putting words in my mouth and have a blind eye response to everything.

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Originally Posted by viion

My LS can kill it normally, just choose not to, as there is no point when this is far better, plenty of other LS's do it normally and this way, depends how they feel about it.

<snip>

i just see it as you being super jelly lol.

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http://i.imgur.com/sESgv.jpg

oh yes, "super jelly"

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Originally Posted by Raikki

oh yes, "super jelly"

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What am I looking at?

Think you missed the point of jelly, heck do you know what site i run? i know everything you done lol.

Ah i just cant take this to much, i feel like I need to write an instruction manual to my posts for ya :/ Go and fight with the internet elsewhere, or learn a calender or something lol.

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Originally Posted by viion

What am I looking at?

Think you missed the point of jelly, heck do you know what site i run? i know everything you done lol.

Ah i just cant take this to much, i feel like I need to write an instruction manual to my posts for ya :/ Go and fight with the internet elsewhere, or learn a calender or something lol.

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Do you know what site I run?

Not a FFXIV fan site that's for sure~ teehee~

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Originally Posted by Ragz

Do you know what site I run?

Not a FFXIV fan site that's for sure~ teehee~

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Curiosity is calling, damnit you!