Upcoming wipe/drama fest 8/13/2021

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Originally Posted by Ranaku

The real question is should we all make a gofundme for the OP to collect gil so he can afford enough esuna healthcare? He seriously needs some whitemages to treat this obsession with streamers/youtubers and WoW players and all this social media stuff.

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Only if I get a Cruise Chaser mount by funding him.

https://media.makeameme.org/created/...are-5c0560.jpg

i think you need some help. why are you really obsess with wow streamers playing ffxiv . You do understand that they can any game they want to and play how they want to correct? We do not need news about wow streamers playing ffxiv like every second of the week.

Yes more eyes on xiv, but we really dont need a news reporter for this.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

So a bunch of likeminded players who all know each other are going to try to tackle difficult content in a pre-orginized group with agreed upon parameters and measurements?


.. Have at it and have fun?


As long as they're not sucking some poor randoms along for the ride and abusing them.. I see no issue.

Them blatantly using 3rd party programs and mods and broadcasting it might backfire on them though.. I hope they know that.

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yeah I have no idea what this person is complaining about?

I see "A bunch of WoW raiders are coming to 14 and wanna try progging our savages and ultimates blind together on stream" and I think "Oh that might be fun to watch", I don't think about drama or anything like that. And wipes don't cause drama. wipes are part of the game especially in high end content.

I just hope they are having fun, looking forward to watch them try the harder FFXIV content out once they get used to the basics.
They've been very real on their streams, not looking down on the game or the community but just wanting to have fun.

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Originally Posted by White_Wolf_X

https://media.makeameme.org/created/...are-5c0560.jpg

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It's couldn't-
oh
the meme actually got it right
huh.

Who lives in a pineapple under the sea? Rich-Ard Nix-On... So spongy yellow and porous is he...

Pinapple under the sea...

There you go SE. Do that for ppl's instanced housing :P lol

Kind of find it funny there's threads like this trying to hype or draw attention to WoW streamers here and I don't really recall anything popping up about a bunch of popular vtubers that apparently had a party or something in this game as a stream even though they most likely had far more viewers and subscribers.

I got turned off live gaming streams because I got tired of all the people trying to sell themselves as better players than they actually are and how often I saw streamers going "plz klick subscribe", "plz like my video", "plz donate to my patreon" etc...

Given the streamers these recent threads are talking about it causes me to suspect the threads themselves are part of the latter portion of my previous sentence trying to get ppl to watch their streams.

They want to try out FF14 cause they already beat all the raids in WoW and there won't be a new one for a long time, there is really nothing wrong with that.

Who?

The main thing that bothers me about some boosters I've seen outside of not bothering to even read a guide and practice is when they talk crap about the story and say that it sucks.
Which is what Quin did and why he got a big backlash.
He approached the game in bad faith and it was really obvious.

If you're not gonna play the story then don't say that it sucks, that simple you haven't played it.

Edit: And also don't act like the game sucks because you die to really obvious mechanics with obvious tells because you boosted and have no clue what you're doing.
Basically don't be a dumbass with your complaints that's all.

WoW players are fine, WoW raiders are also fine. Regardless of who you are or where you're from, toxic behavior isn't tolerated. If people are dicks, they'll get the boot. That's all there is to it. If they're cool, they're more than welcome.
I'm looking forward to seeing them run content tbh. I saw Naguura (sp?) stream a bit and oh boy, it's going to be interesting lol. Does anyone know when they're starting? (Edit: they ran yesterday, was fun to watch)

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Originally Posted by Puremallace

Wondering what the communities thoughts on this are right now? Limit Max seems to think the community cares about them boosting given the Source Twitlonger. I see the difference between World first raiders boosting and Quin69 or LazyPeon (Might just be me).

How do you guys think this is going to go?

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I can only speak for myself, but I don't care as long as they move within the ToS.

Yes, they are using 3rd Party tools like ACT and what not, but I still don't care (SE probably does not care either) under the condition they don't misuse them on other players.


Side note: where is the flood of evil/toxic that people promised would happen once Asmongold joined? (No, I'm not one of his followers, I didn't even know who that was before he joined)

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Originally Posted by Silica-chan

Side note: where is the flood of evil/toxic that people promised would happen once Asmongold joined? (No, I'm not one of his followers, I didn't even know who that was before he joined)

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it already happened right at the beginning and lo and behold, many of those people trolling and bothering him had endgame mounts :^)

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

it already happened right at the beginning and lo and behold, many of those people trolling and bothering him had endgame mounts :^)

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But that couldn't been FFXIV players! Or whatever his haters used for excuse.

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Originally Posted by Silica-chan

Side note: where is the flood of evil/toxic that people promised would happen once Asmongold joined? (No, I'm not one of his followers, I didn't even know who that was before he joined)

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As expected, SE stomped on them as soon as they started getting reported. A lot of players earned bans that weekend Asmongold started and some of them posted copies of their bans on reddit. Many WoW content creators who had recently joined FFXIV remarked on it at the time to make the message clear: you can get away with that stuff in WoW but in FFXIV it will catch up to you here sooner instead of later.

That's part of why so much of the player base is loyal to FFXIV regardless of what flaws they see in the game. SE wants every player to have an enjoyable experience and they're not interested in enabling those who want to ruin things for others. Compare that to WOW where the official Customer Service response for years was "there's no rule against being a jerk".

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

But that couldn't been FFXIV players! Or whatever his haters used for excuse.

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It's weird how some can't grasp that there's considerable overlap between the various game and streamer communities.

Were those players acting that way because they're FFXIV players or were they acting that way because they enjoy harassing Asmongold wherever he goes?

If they hadn't been doing it to other FFXIV players before Asmongold showed up and only did it to him once he started playing, seems a lot more likely the latter is the reason for their behavior and not the former.

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

it already happened right at the beginning and lo and behold, many of those people trolling and bothering him had endgame mounts :^)

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Yeah I heard of that. I havn't heard of any other incident since. (outside of occasional zone congestions because ppl like to follow him around)
I was more talking about the people of this forum, claiming endless amounts of evil would join this game because of him.



What I'm trying to say is, people should try to be a bit less scared of anything World of Warcraft related, the GMs seem to do just fine. (atlast in my experience, we aren't all saints here either btw)

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Originally Posted by Silica-chan

I was more talking about the people of this forum, claiming endless amounts of evil would join this game because of him.

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just the usual bitter ex talk where scenarios are invented to appear as better than them, tbh
you'll also see those people invalidate other players' WoW experiences when it doesn't align with the ones they had, or ignore posts made by them to continue pushing that "everything about and everyone in the WoW community is toxic and bad" narrative while also usually expressing a ton of (self-)adulation when it comes to XIV
while conveniently making excuses or "forgetting" about the bad parts of it, that those are just bad apples and not the whole community (truth) - but generalising and harshly judging WoW and it's community about similar bad apples, and applying it to everyone that plays it (false)

I hope they have fun and I don't care if they use addons.

The only thing that grinds my gears is when people say Thing X sucks even though they've never tried it. Maybe they wouldn't enjoy X, but that's not the same as X being bad. You can't say that's a really bad theme park ride if you haven't been on the ride and don't have a general understanding of what a theme park ride is supposed to be like. Or maybe you don't eat meat but that doesn't mean the steak you are skipping is a bad steak.

It goes the other way too. Lots of people who never played WoW seem to have a lot of opinions about how toxic the community is.

I just consider them incredibly hypocritical.

"We want to do it blind and suffer" while at the same time modifying their games in ways that make it easier to do the content.

Lol.

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Originally Posted by Puremallace

https://www.icy-veins.com/jobs-ffxiv

^ The more attention this mmo gets the more attention it gets from professional content creators. If this happens with Icy Veins backing it then you can effectively retire every single job discord overnight especially since come Endwalker some of them will not even be supported anymore.

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The existence of Icy Veins didn't stop class discords from being a thing. When demon hunter came with Legion, there were two Discords out there for them: Mardum and Fel Hammer. Sure it was consolidated into just Fel Hammer, but people were still fairly active on it. Guides on those Discrods have been posted on Icy Veins, but sometimes you only want to talk within a community sub-group.

There's also more resources that people use outside of Icy Veins, even blogs and community forums specific to classes and specs. Quite a few of the druid communities were still there when I switched to DH as well.

I doubt Icy Veins would demolish the Discords out there, given that they have older communities that have been established. And it would probably take a lot to eat up The Balance.

I just got home, did I miss all the pillaging and looting?

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Originally Posted by Imora

I just consider them incredibly hypocritical.

"We want to do it blind and suffer" while at the same time modifying their games in ways that make it easier to do the content.

Lol.

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Good point, though honestly Blizzard can be blamed for that. By Wrath, they were designing WoW raid content (and most of the rest of the game to a lesser degree) around the assumption that players would be using add-ons.

Those players aren't used to this game, which is designed to be played without the use of add-ons.

I don't care what these guys do but be warned there will be some petty people in there stream reporting them for third party use in game and on twitch if they are streaming it. I believe twitch also has rules against breaking TOS on the game you are playing or something. I hope they have fun though and people leave them alone to just enjoy the raids.

So what is the add on that announces people's deaths being used by healers or is it a macro? That says don't you dare die (insert player name)?
It's really annoying seeing it in party chat when you are trying to watch it for any information concerning a fight.

Hopefully the third party DPS monitors won't start beating people over the head with third party information. Seeing as how that is harassment and against TOS. Edited for clarification.

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Originally Posted by Snorky

So what is the add on that announces people's deaths being used by healers or is it a macro? That says don't you dare die (insert player name)?
It's really annoying seeing it in party chat when you are trying to watch it for any information concerning a fight. Hopefully they won't start beating people over the head with third party information. Seeing as how that is harassment and against TOS.

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typically that is a macro created by the healer so that another healer doesnt rez the same person, thus blowing a cd

I am terribly sorry that healers letting other healers know something is really annoying and you consider healers doing their job... harassment

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

typically that is a macro created by the healer so that another healer doesnt rez the same person, thus blowing a cd

I am terribly sorry that healers letting other healers know something is really annoying and you consider healers doing their job... harassment

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I never said that, I said it was annoying to have it pop up in chat. Way to take what someone says to extremes. And I should clarify the harassment comment was in people using third party programs to berate people about damage done. I should edit that. I'm terrible about not finishing a thought out sorry.

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Originally Posted by Vonleo

I don't care what these guys do but be warned there will be some petty people in there stream reporting them for third party use in game and on twitch if they are streaming it. I believe twitch also has rules against breaking TOS on the game you are playing or something. I hope they have fun though and people leave them alone to just enjoy the raids.

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I really find this silly. Only way they would get banned is if the 3rd party app is interfering with the Client. The UI plugins they are using is really close on that grey line but I think these function more as overlays vs interacting with the actual game client. ACT on the other hand the line has been clearly defined by Yoshi P himself so they are fine there.

What those guys really want is things like WeakAuras and DBM so they can have counters. This would be a PR nightmare if they did issue the bans though based on a bunch of reports that have no grounding and some are being issued because they choose to play the MMO differently. I created this post to give Square Enix a heads up of the mess that was coming with reports. It was pretty obvious.

Fun fact

Lot of people use dps meters, you might have been in duty with 7-23 people using them. And they didnt get "toxic" to you. Even more so, lot of people are using said "mods" mentioned in OP. And none of them started drama.

Addon or meters wont make you toxic, people are toxic if they so choose.

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Originally Posted by Imora

I just consider them incredibly hypocritical.

"We want to do it blind and suffer" while at the same time modifying their games in ways that make it easier to do the content.

Lol.

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... what? Their add ons don't make any of the content easier. Being able to see other players' buff timers isn't going to make E4S or E8S easier, especially when you consider any veteran static will already know all this to begin with. They aren't using triggers to actually call mechanics.

If you're referring to ACT. Well, welcome to the entire raid community in this game. Practically everyone uses them, including several streamers. They just don't happen to all show you they have them up.

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Originally Posted by Vonleo

I don't care what these guys do but be warned there will be some petty people in there stream reporting them for third party use in game and on twitch if they are streaming it. I believe twitch also has rules against breaking TOS on the game you are playing or something. I hope they have fun though and people leave them alone to just enjoy the raids.

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This is nonsense. Yoshida and the dev team have outright said they watch Savage and Ultimate prog where players visually show their parsers. So long as you don't mention it in game, they pretty much don't care.

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Originally Posted by Puremallace

I really find this silly. Only way they would get banned is if the 3rd party app is interfering with the Client. The UI plugins they are using is really close on that grey line but I think these function more as overlays vs interacting with the actual game client. ACT on the other hand the line has been clearly defined by Yoshi P himself so they are fine there.

What those guys really want is things like WeakAuras and DBM so they can have counters. This would be a PR nightmare if they did issue the bans though based on a bunch of reports that have no grounding and some are being issued because they choose to play the MMO differently. I created this post to give Square Enix a heads up of the mess that was coming with reports. It was pretty obvious.

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Timers are quite possible if you know ability timings as everything seems to be heavily scripted. There had been ability callouts and targets ("prey on <name>") since at least HW. Not entirely sure it's still around though.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

... what? Their add ons don't make any of the content easier. Being able to see other players' buff timers isn't going to make E4S or E8S easier, especially when you consider any veteran static will already know all this to begin with. They aren't using triggers to actually call mechanics.

If you're referring to ACT. Well, welcome to the entire raid community in this game. Practically everyone uses them, including several streamers. They just don't happen to all show you they have them up.



This is nonsense. Yoshida and the dev team have outright said they watch Savage and Ultimate prog where players visually show their parsers. So long as you don't mention it in game, they pretty much don't care.

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If buff timers didn't make it easier you wouldn't need to use them. These guys apparently need to use them.

Remember these aren't veteran FF raiders, they're veteran "crutched by weakauras and boss mods Blizzard expects you to have".

Default UI gives you all the information you need here. In WoW it really doesn't.

And triggers exist.

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Originally Posted by Imora

If buff timers didn't make it easier you wouldn't need to use them. These guys apparently need to use them.

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There is difference between "min maxing for good damage" that they are going for and other extreme of "slogging thro E10S and almost hitting enrage" PF parties. Do you need to know buff timers in XIV? No because everything is 60/120/160s cooldown and generally people are set on their rotation to always have it up proper.

Do you want to? Sure I mean, why not.

This could be either "we arent sure is this needed" thing or just how they want to raid. Its not hurting anyone. Its not like they are doing world first here. Contents already done and beaten. Plus if they said they go in blind, all power to them.

By the time next raid tier comes along they probably wont "need cooldown timers" (and those break on first week/days of raid anyway)

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Originally Posted by Imora

If buff timers didn't make it easier you wouldn't need to use them. These guys apparently need to use them.

Remember these aren't veteran FF raiders, they're veteran "crutched by weakauras and boss mods Blizzard expects you to have".

Default UI gives you all the information you need here.

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I like comments like these, that usually come from someone who's barely dabbled in endgame content, yet is expert enough at the game to label people with clears of the hardest content as being carried by crutches.

Good players like having tools for optimal performance. It pushes their already high ability even further and they enjoy trying to reach their peak. That's why UI's can be resized and moved around, why you have hotkeys, MMO mice, better computers, all the rest of it. Sure, FF14 is intended to be played even on a potato with an office mouse and no settings tweaked, but doing so doesn't make you a superior gamer.

I can guarantee you 100% that if you forced any of the top world raiders to play on default UI with no addons in min-ilv blind content, they would run rings around any forum poster who claims they were carried by addons. Effortlessly. Not even slightly close.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I like comments like these, that usually come from someone who's barely dabbled in endgame content, yet is expert enough at the game to label people with clears of the hardest content as being carried by crutches.

Good players like having tools for optimal performance. It pushes their already high ability even further and they enjoy trying to reach their peak. That's why UI's can be resized and moved around, why you have hotkeys, MMO mice, better computers, all the rest of it. Sure, FF14 is intended to be played even on a potato with an office mouse and no settings tweaked, but doing so doesn't make you a superior gamer.

I can guarantee you 100% that if you forced any of the top world raiders to play on default UI with no addons in min-ilv blind content, they would run rings around any forum poster who claims they were carried by addons. Effortlessly. Not even slightly close.

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Aren't there also some top-end raiders who play exclusively on console as well?

Naguura boosted? Shocker, all she did in WoW to.

Why the heck is OP so obsessed with streamers etc., feels like every two days there is a new thread about some streamer doing some stuff from him.

At this point you should consider becoming a news youtuber or something, there you can blast this hollow content into the digital void.

I don't see the drama in any of the shit you listed.

Good luck to them, hope they enjoy it.

Who? Honestly, at this point, whatever they want to try and accomplish is fine, this isn't a pissing contest between the two games. However, if they muck it up and trash the game with baseless accusations and outright lies, then I would think the community will wash their hands of it.

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Originally Posted by Imora

If buff timers didn't make it easier you wouldn't need to use them. These guys apparently need to use them.

Remember these aren't veteran FF raiders, they're veteran "crutched by weakauras and boss mods Blizzard expects you to have".

Default UI gives you all the information you need here. In WoW it really doesn't.

And triggers exist.

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Ah, yes. The good old "If you use anything but standard UI, you're getting carried by [insert whatever addon they're using]" post.

These guys have next to no FFXIV raid experience and cleared e1s at min ilvl and without Echo within 6hours BLIND. That's freaking amazing. And they came up with strategies like the circle bait and invuln cheese during meteors, a strat that may go against the uptime mindset of FFXIV raiders but is the most fail safe strat there is. On their first day. BLIND.
That's sick.
But I'm guessing it's nothing for someone as experienced as you, right?

Seeing when Addle or Embolden is up doesn't suddenly tell them everything there is to know about the boss. Triggers exist but they didn't use them. Had you watched the stream you'd know that but I suppose it's easier to just assume they did.
These guys would run circles around all the self-proclaimed forum heroes even on poor hardware and without any UI adjustments. The reason highly skilled raiders tend to use addons that give additional info is not because they need crutches but because they want any information they can get. It means they have even more information to process and take into consideration when making decisions. They always aim to do more even if it's just delaying their Trick Attack for another GCD because they saw that the DNC doesn't have Tech ready right this second.
Tracking other peoples timers was common among top tier raiders in WoW. It was everyones own responsibility to constantly keep an eye an all the cooldowns of the whole raid. Is it neccessary here? No. But it prevents "X ready in Y seconds" spam in voice for highend fine tuning.
Half the raiders can't even focus on their own rotation without dying to every other mechanic, how many would actually be able to constantly keep an eye on additional info I wonder...

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Originally Posted by Wolfsbane706

Aren't there also some top-end raiders who play exclusively on console as well?

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Some of them are on console, others use fairly standard hardware without any additional buttons etc. and click a few things.
And they perform absolutely incredibly. A good player is a good player.

lmao

ITT: people thinking clearing e1s / e2s within 6 hours is an accomplishment when literally even some midcore/casual statics cleared it in 2 hours blind on day 1 without even getting close to enrage and without full crafted gear

KEK

They seem to be having a blast, and that's all that matters.