How does FF14 compare to WoW? (And other MMOs)

This one of those threads where you need a 10ft pole with fake hand attached to touch it safely.

Seeing the raiding argument, I think it's fine to have raiding or a raid scene because this is the kind of MMO it is, I just don't think it should negatively impact other parts of the game or for there to be too much of a raiding focus and I think the devs try to get that balance. There's more to an MMO than raiding and this one offers more than just a raiding scene and it's just one of the flavours. In this respect if you're in it for dedicated raiding, its possible WoW is better for it because they have a greater focus for it, but I enjoy the raids they have here better.

But one of the annoyances coming at it as a healer, healers ended up needing to be balanced against raid content and lower content just really gives them nothing to do. It's an awkward balance because I think easier content should still be engaging, but to balance healer against easier content would then negatively impact it on raid. This is a balance the game hasn't got right. But I point to the devs for that, rather than people raiding or wanting raid or raid balance. But I've gone to extensive length in the healer forums of how I think they could address this.

Whilst I dislike WoW and have tried to see if I like it with each expansion to see if they address my problems, at least healing regular content I am doing something and heck, I have more to do in my downtime on my Holy Paladin than I do on my SCH.

But my main loves of XIV are:
- Consistency
- Whilst I complain as a healer, I feel dungeon design, pace and flow is better.
- Story, I adore the story. It doesn't start strong and has its weak moments, but it really gets there.
- Raid & Trial design, I always enjoy how they're designed in FFXIV
- Music, I love what Soken does
- Lore, I think FFXIV has great lore, as an RPer it's a lot of fun to work with, especially as they are good for leaving space for creativity too
- Decent controller support, how controller interaction is designed is smart and works really well IMO. Admittedly it has a learning curve but how its designed is a really responsive way of doing it.
- The community

There were things I liked about WoW, playing Shaman and Death Knight I find to be fun. But what really made it hard for me to get engaged with was the lack of through-point on story. I am a sucker for story driven content, I get that's not WoW's thing, so not something I'd expect them to change if the player base is happy it nor being that way. But the point I guess I lament is that I think it has potential to grip me, which is why I try each expansion. Levelling is dull as heck. Sure Shadowlands improved it, but it's still dull as heck regardless of which expansion you choose to level in.

Neither I think are "better" it's just they appeal to different types of people based on their strengths and weaknesses and so they should, they're different games. Hence I wouldn't change anything about WoW, I'm a FFXIV player.

Good in FF14
Raiding
Crafting
Fashion/Customisation

Bad in FF14
Combat (if you ain't into Tab Targeting)
Grinding Zones (Eureka, Bozja)
PvP is the worst part of this game
People relying on mental illness as why an excuse not to tank.

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Originally Posted by Payotz

>Hunt marks
Which is pretty much added to the 450 tomestone grind. People don't do trains for fun, they do it for tomes.
Which is technically repeatable, but only for the once a week variety.

>Fates, while not very interesting they are repeatable
And so is running around the overworld and farming the 200,000 enemies down achievements.

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Spawning S ranks is fun, so yes people do it for fun or for mounts. You can also do daily hunt bills for leveling.

Fates are involved in relic weapons and in getting bicolor gemstone rewards and it's fun to do each fate at least once just to see what it's like.

I will compare to WoW because it's the only other big MMO I had years invested, though I left at the beginning of last xpac and the new one didn't look great enough to pull me back in.

Pros of XIV in relation to WoW:
- Character customization is still better, even after WoW improved theirs. It's pretty good that in XIV we get one or two new hairstyles every major patch, but even being ahead, XIV still needs to work on ading more variety to the other customization options like faces, etc.
- Armor design and visual variety.
- Mounts! Although XIV has some recolors/reskins of same models, it's not to the point that WoW has, to become a meme of Alliance only have reskinned horses
- Storyline, characters
- The way old content is not discontinued after the expansion it debuted from - it might not have extreme relevant rewards like the current ones, but still worth in a way or another - Level sync helps a lot with that too.
- Also related to above, the number of side content that you can unlock. Since it's never discontinued, they just stack... I've been playing ever since the end of HW and up to this day there are still some blue icon quests (unlockable) of things I'm yet to do
- I'm not very into crafting or gathering, but from the little I could see or experience I can already tell is vastly superior


Pros of WoW in relation to XIV
- PVP, although it was/is an endless struggle to balance;
- Raid encounters - WoW follows to more ways of approaching the mechanics by it being less formulaic. XIV right now is almost a game of learning telegraphs, and while I don't expect it to go all the other way, at least some would be great.
- Advanced dungeon difficulties/modes. This is something that XIV lacks a lot... Currently the only way to experience challenging content is to look towards an 8man group to do Savage and beyond.
- Class customization and different playstyles even in the same spec. XIV jobs do play great, but in the end, for example, every Red Mage - have - to play exactly the same way, aim for the same stats. Easier to balance? For sure, but at cost of uniqueness.
- Addons. It is a controversial topic and I don't really miss Recount in XIV, but having a - personal only - way of telling how your performance is going in real situations would be so nice. And beyond that, I miss being able to customize the game's interface.

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Originally Posted by Lubu_Mykono

Bad in FF14
Combat (if you ain't into Tab Targeting)

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It's not the tab targetting i dont like. it's the speed of it and lack of weight or substance to it all.

so many skills do nothing they exist for the sole purpose of more buttons to press. combat is so disconnected from actual bosses or whatever it's just mash buttons every second for the sake of mashing buttons.. you could for example totally remove kenki and shintenand kaiten and ogcds in general from samurai and it would look exactly the same to play. most of those ogcd animations get lost by the gcd animations anyway so all they really do is make for busy work..

skills like weight as well. you samurai can build up 3 sen. hit kaiten do your big bad midare and nothing happens... the boss doesnt stagger or flinch or anything and you dont even see a chunk of hp get sliced off.. warriors are the same with there big bad fell cleaves. or bards with there high potency apex arrows or sidewinders. there's no actual weight to anything in the combat system. even the mighty lb3 does nothing.. be in an alliance raid and watch as 3 big bad lb3s go off from all 3 parties and the bosses hp bar doesn't even move.

I'd rather they slow the combat down. less button spam or less apm but the trade off would be the buttons you do push actually feeling like they do something more than just add a few flashes andsparkles to what feels like a glorified auto attack.. actually see a boss flinchor stagger when a warrior unleashes a bad as fell cleave at there leg.

the same is true for all jobs even healers. I like scholar i don't like dps as scholar and thats not becuase they only have 1 nuke button. its because that nuke button doesnt do anything.. it's literally just there to keep you pressing buttons for the sake of pressing buttons when noone needs heals.. there's no weight to it no substance. thats why combat sucks.. your biggest baddest hardest hitting skills barely even tickle the bosses hp guage or do anything.

i dont want more buttons to press i just want the buttons i do press to actually feel like they do something and have some weight... some mmos are really good with this. slower combat less buttons but so much more engaging and rewarding because the they carry more substance and weight to them..

Why do we have these comparison threads. If you like wow, okay wow, if you like eso, play eso, if you like x, play x. No need for this gibberish.

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Originally Posted by Payotz

Now, do you think that many people will still do these because they consider this fun, with no rewards, no incentives, no xp?

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New Game + yes.
MSQ content yes.
Deep Dungeons yes.
Crafting and gathering no.
PVP yes.
Hunt marks no.
Fates no.

They all can be fun to different people. Just about all of them have rewards, incentives or xp behind them.

Let's add the gold saucer and treasure maps to repeatable content that many people do as well.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Let's add the gold saucer and treasure maps to repeatable content that many people do as well.

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and Beast Tribes, can't forget about those.

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Originally Posted by Edax

New Game + yes.
MSQ content yes.
Deep Dungeons yes.
Crafting and gathering no.
PVP yes.
Hunt marks no.
Fates no.

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So does this mean that Crafting/Gathering, Hunt Marks and Fates are a failed game concept?
Or does this mean that in your point of view, that this content just needs more work put into it?

And for the people who do Crafting/Gathering, Hunt Marks and Fates, do you find it fun?
If not, do you want more work to be put into it? Do you think that these are a failed game concept?
Or do you think that these could have been executed better?

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Spawning S ranks is fun, so yes people do it for fun or for mounts. You can also do daily hunt bills for leveling.

Fates are involved in relic weapons and in getting bicolor gemstone rewards and it's fun to do each fate at least once just to see what it's like.

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I mean that's the thing though isn't it. People will actually run through the FATEs once to experience it. After bicolor gemstones, it's not that repeatable anymore aside from the Relic grind.

Most content in FF14 is pretty much like that. Most of it has very low staying power, and is left like that for a very long time. I would argue that Hardcore content and PvP content are two things that are most affected by it, but that's really how I see things from my own PoV. (and before you say anything, I've had this opinion long before Ultimate was pushed back).

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

They all can be fun to different people. Just about all of them have rewards, incentives or xp behind them.

Let's add the gold saucer and treasure maps to repeatable content that many people do as well.

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Yeah and they're all good concepts. The incentives are a thing added onto the content to make it repeatable, but that doesn't make it any worse of a game concept because of it.

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Originally Posted by KenXSSS

Things that WoW has:
- Trade Chat

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From my personal experience, this is a plus. When I played WoW, I felt like I spent a lot of time needlessly paying attention to trade chat. It's easy to get caught up in the moment talking to random people... but it's like browsing 4chan; you're just talking to random people who you're never going to see again, and since the conversation isn't recorded on a forum somewhere... you basically spend a lot of time and effort typing for no long term reason.

From what I've heard, the novice network is basically trade chat 2.0.

I also feel this way about big, active discords, where I felt compelled to get involved in every conversation. But ultimately it was just a big waste of time for the same reasons. Once I left those big discords, I felt relieved, and spent my time better elsewhere.

Now I just spend a little bit of time posting on forums and really small forums, and then get on with my life.

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Originally Posted by Payotz

So does this mean that Crafting/Gathering, Hunt Marks and Fates are a failed game concept?
Or does this mean that in your point of view, that this content just needs more work put into it?

And for the people who do Crafting/Gathering, Hunt Marks and Fates, do you find it fun?
If not, do you want more work to be put into it? Do you think that these are a failed game concept?
Or do you think that these could have been executed better?

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I do not consider it a failed concept, but as executed, you wouldn't be able to dedicate a single player game around it as executed by FFXIV. Crafting and Gathering can be fun, Factorio and Stardew Valley is evidence of that. The act of clicking on a menu to gather or pushing a bunch of buttons to craft something is too simplistic to even be called a game. Hunting could be fun if the targets had any AI but they don't in FFXIV. And fates are just too simplistic in my opinion to be that much different from tedious grinding, being not that much different from SWTOR tying mobs together in a group. These concepts only work with a reward system, otherwise they're tedious busywork that few would bother without the rewards.

Gathering and crafting could be fun if they had actual gameplay involved, but as is, there's no actual "game" in the gameplay. Just the act of having to gather resources in a very dangerous area or time limits for crafting could at least add a gameplay element to it, but this game doesn't really do that. I think Fates were intended to mini-games and that could be fun, but most fates aren't sophisticated enough to be considered mini-games. If they were like the mini-games in FFVII, they could have been a really neat addition. And hunts are just mob grinding with a slightly different flavor and could have been executed far better like using the Monster Hunter crossover fight as the hunt system. As it is, you can barely distinguish the gameplay between a hunt mark and a fate.

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Originally Posted by Payotz

See where I'm going here? All of these are technically repeatable content. Technically. The main question is this, do you think that this is acceptable repeatable content for 5-6 months of content drought?

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It depends on what you want to do repeatedly.

For example:

In WoW, I'm still leveling through Shadowlands (yeah, I'm taking it very slowly there), so I'll use my BfA activities:
Daily repeats: Normal/Heroic Random Dungeon, World Quests (for reputation/pathfinder and actual guaranteed gear upgrades some of the times)
Weekly repeats: LFR
Monthly(?) repeats: Timewalking Random Dungeon

In FFXIV:
Daily repeats: Trial Roulette, Normal Raid Roulette, Alliance Raid Roulette are my main while (Expert/Leveling/MSQ/other roulettes/beast tribe depends on if I want more Tomestone/EXP/extra gear drops/certain other rewards)
Weekly repeats: Normal Raids

So, looking at what I actually like to do the most (instanced PVE content against boss enemies at a difficulty that I can simply queue for), FFXIV definitely already has more of what I want of repeatable content and it has met that expectations for 4+ years now since I started playing in January of 2017.

The only time I would stop repeating contents on FFXIV is when I'm about to abandon a character for another (like now, actually, since I'll have a new character for Endwalker), because then I feel like my effort is wasted, but I can still have fun just repeating the content if I don't think of the gains from the content.

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Originally Posted by Payotz

> The msq now is repeatable with New Game+ although as far as I'm aware the entire msq isn't there but the point still stands
Technically yes, but so is running around Limsa, and despite me enjoying running around Limsa, I don't count that as repeatable content.

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Is this your way of saying that New Game+ isn't repeatable content? Despite the fact that this is the exact purpose it is supposed to serve? It was brought to the game specifically because players asked for a way to repeat the msq without making an alt. I find it strange that in an earlier post you praised the story but now you're comparing it to running laps in a city.

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Originally Posted by Payotz

>It seems you forgot deep dungeons exist, which are hugely popular for lvling
Which is technically added to Bozja, because you can't level from 70-80 using HoH or PoTD.
If there's a new DD expansion of HoH to level 70-80 like PoTD with Heavensward, then yes I'll take this as repeatable content.
Unfortunately, it's not.

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It's not a technicality because Bozja and deep dungeons are not the same content. Plenty of players do both. Just because you don't doesn't mean no one else does.

Never mind how Bozja doesn't give the rewards you get from completing floor 200/100 of PotD/HoH, which also have incentives for repetition due to it being impossible to get all the rewards from just one clear.

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Originally Posted by Payotz

>Crafting and gathering requires a tremendous amount of repetition
Ishgard Restoration, sure. I'll deem that as "Repeatable" content, but if you're saying that crafting itself is repeatable content, then you might as well say that practicing your rotation on the striking dummy is repeatable content.

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I didn't know smashing a dummy gave you xp to lvl up your class, and yielded items you can craft with to make other items such as gear and furniture. Thanks! I'm going to smash a dummy and get rich! /sarcasm in case that wasn't obvious

Also crafting and gathering was a thing long before Ishgard was even accessible in the game. Never mind the Restoration.

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Originally Posted by Payotz

>Pvp
Which is dead half the time, and where they can't fix because most people don't have interest in it, and they can't fix because the server ticks aren't snappy enough for split second decisions.
Ever had to CC a healer in Frontlines and then see him fly back towards his backline due to Holmgang not applying until after a second or two later? Yeah, that's the problem.
I honestly don't know how Square could fix it without fixing server backend.

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I will admit pvp appears to be suffering to some degree. I don't know a lot about it as I have little interest in it. I just know that long queues are expected due to a lack of popularity.

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Originally Posted by Payotz

>Hunt marks
Which is pretty much added to the 450 tomestone grind. People don't do trains for fun, they do it for tomes.
Which is technically repeatable, but only for the once a week variety.

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Not everyone does those only for tomes. There are other rewards you can get from doing that content. Mounts, minions, gear, furniture, orchestrions...quite a few goodies.

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Originally Posted by Payotz

>Fates, while not very interesting they are repeatable
And so is running around the overworld and farming the 200,000 enemies down achievements.

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Fates yield more xp than burning down non fate mobs. Some also give rewards like mounts and minions. I don't think they're interesting either but again...that doesn't make it not content.

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Originally Posted by Payotz

See where I'm going here?

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Yea, you're pretty ticked off that I picked apart your argument.

((Sorry if I couldn't reply fast enough. Had a wild night.))

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Originally Posted by Edax

I do not consider it a failed concept, but as executed, you wouldn't be able to dedicate a single player game around it as executed by FFXIV. Crafting and Gathering can be fun, Factorio and Stardew Valley is evidence of that. The act of clicking on a menu to gather or pushing a bunch of buttons to craft something is too simplistic to even be called a game. Hunting could be fun if the targets had any AI but they don't in FFXIV. And fates are just too simplistic in my opinion to be that much different from tedious grinding, being not that much different from SWTOR tying mobs together in a group. These concepts only work with a reward system, otherwise they're tedious busywork that few would bother without the rewards.

Gathering and crafting could be fun if they had actual gameplay involved, but as is, there's no actual "game" in the gameplay. Just the act of having to gather resources in a very dangerous area or time limits for crafting could at least add a gameplay element to it, but this game doesn't really do that. I think Fates were intended to mini-games and that could be fun, but most fates aren't sophisticated enough to be considered mini-games. If they were like the mini-games in FFVII, they could have been a really neat addition. And hunts are just mob grinding with a slightly different flavor and could have been executed far better like using the Monster Hunter crossover fight as the hunt system. As it is, you can barely distinguish the gameplay between a hunt mark and a fate.

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Hmm that's a good enough assessment. Aside from Crafting/Gathering, I do have the same opinions as you in regards to Hunt Marks and Fates, but it does illustrate my point wherein the concept of those game mechanics are bad, it's just means they're executed poorly or need more work on it. That's the same thing I feel for raiding. Raiding, as executed as it is in FFXIV, needs more work, but raiding as a game concept is not a failed concept and the a game can revolve around it as its core. The execution just needs more work put into it.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Is this your way of saying that New Game+ isn't repeatable content? Despite the fact that this is the exact purpose it is supposed to serve? It was brought to the game specifically because players asked for a way to repeat the msq without making an alt. I find it strange that in an earlier post you praised the story but now you're comparing it to running laps in a city.

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It's repeatable content in the same way as running Expert dungeon over and over again when you're overcapped on tomes is repeatable content. Calling it repeatable content is the same as running dungeons from Satasha to Matoya's on all roles, as technically you can repeat dungeons as repeatable, but there's just no incentive to do them. I view it more as a tool for story skip/job skip players to go back and play the story without making an alt.

And as for this bit here:

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I find it strange that in an earlier post you praised the story but now you're comparing it to running laps in a city.

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Yeah, cause it's literally content that's meant to be a one and done thing. The first time I got into Limsa, it looks amazing. I explored it, I ran around it, the same with other zones and city states. I have the same reaction to MSQ. I cried, I laughed, it was amazing, but will I get that same enjoyment there when I repeat it for the second time? Nope.

Saying that the MSQ is non-repeatable content isn't a dig at it. It's describing it as it is.

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It's not a technicality because Bozja and deep dungeons are not the same content. Plenty of players do both. Just because you don't doesn't mean no one else does. Never mind how Bozja doesn't give the rewards you get from completing floor 200/100 of PotD/HoH, which also have incentives for repetition due to it being impossible to get all the rewards from just one clear.

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I mean that Bozja is supposed to be the ShB replacement for Heaven or High. I'm down to do Heaven or High or PoTD casually if it means I can go to lvl 80 with it (aka, add another 50 floors to it like PoTD in HW). Is it repeatable? Sure, but it does need an expansion into ShB.

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I didn't know smashing a dummy gave you xp to lvl up your class, and yielded items you can craft with to make other items such as gear and furniture. Thanks! I'm going to smash a dummy and get rich! /sarcasm in case that wasn't obvious

Also crafting and gathering was a thing long before Ishgard was even accessible in the game. Never mind the Restoration.

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Sarcasm aside, how am I wrong? Crafting itself is a window wherein you experience content. That's like saying NIN is repeatable content. It's not. You have to experience repeatable content through it.

Crafting what? Furniture? Oh you mean playing the market? You mean getting gil? I consider that side fluff as it necessiates the players to make the content themselves. (SE never had a hand in undercutting wars, nor do they influence the market.)

To make my point clearer, the Nin Equivalent is playing NIN in what content? PvP? Dungeons? Raids? Fates? Be specific.

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I will admit pvp appears to be suffering to some degree. I don't know a lot about it as I have little interest in it. I just know that long queues are expected due to a lack of popularity.

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Which is unfortunate really. It's really dragged down by the backend not being as snappy as it should be. There are a lot of interesting job designs in PvP that are even a lot more interesting than PvE that majority of the playerbase couldn't experience cause of how unpopular it is. (TK MnK was in there at one point. That was fun)

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Not everyone does those only for tomes. There are other rewards you can get from doing that content. Mounts, minions, gear, furniture, orchestrions...quite a few goodies.

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Which doesn't really change that most people ride the train to do them. It's repeatable once a week, but most people don't do trains for fun. Running the trains is something that players do to make the content repeatable for themselves. (God bless the people who run the trains btw). Calling it repeatable is kinda like calling raids repeatable cause parse running is a thing.

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Fates yield more xp than burning down non fate mobs. Some also give rewards like mounts and minions. I don't think they're interesting either but again...that doesn't make it not content.

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That's the main thing about it. Fates are just a tiny bit more interesting than killing overworld mobs. A tiny tiny bit. Putting incentives is a good step in the right direction, but the content as it is has no staying power. They need to put more work into it.

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Yea, you're pretty ticked off that I picked apart your argument.

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Uhh, I wasn't? Why would I be mad at genuine discussion about FFXIV content?
To give more context, the whole line was this:

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See where I'm going here? All of these are technically repeatable content. Technically. The main question is this, do you think that this is acceptable repeatable content for 5-6 months of content drought?

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To be even more clear, do you think that the state of everything in that list, has staying power for 5-6 months? If so, I would love to listen as to why.

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Originally Posted by linayar

It depends on what you want to do repeatedly.

For example:

In WoW, I'm still leveling through Shadowlands (yeah, I'm taking it very slowly there), so I'll use my BfA activities:
Daily repeats: Normal/Heroic Random Dungeon, World Quests (for reputation/pathfinder and actual guaranteed gear upgrades some of the times)
Weekly repeats: LFR
Monthly(?) repeats: Timewalking Random Dungeon

In FFXIV:
Daily repeats: Trial Roulette, Normal Raid Roulette, Alliance Raid Roulette are my main while (Expert/Leveling/MSQ/other roulettes/beast tribe depends on if I want more Tomestone/EXP/extra gear drops/certain other rewards)
Weekly repeats: Normal Raids

So, looking at what I actually like to do the most (instanced PVE content against boss enemies at a difficulty that I can simply queue for), FFXIV definitely already has more of what I want of repeatable content and it has met that expectations for 4+ years now since I started playing in January of 2017.

The only time I would stop repeating contents on FFXIV is when I'm about to abandon a character for another (like now, actually, since I'll have a new character for Endwalker), because then I feel like my effort is wasted, but I can still have fun just repeating the content if I don't think of the gains from the content.

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Interesting. Do you engage in side fluff in FFXIV? Stuff like house parties, player events, and maybe even just socializing? Or do you login to do roulettes dailies and normal raids as weeklies only, or do you do something else in the game after you've done everything? And how many alts have you made as of now?

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Originally Posted by Payotz

Yeah, cause it's literally content that's meant to be a one and done thing.

Saying that the MSQ is non-repeatable content isn't a dig at it. It's describing it as it is.

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For YOU that is the case. For those who asked for New Game+ that is not the case, and personally I have several alts so that's not the case for me either.

You are consistently mistaking content you don't want to repeat for content that is not repeatable. If you don't want to do certain content over and over again that's fine, not saying you aren't allowed to feel that way. I am saying that your preferences aren't a reference point for everyone else's preferences. (my god that last bit is a tongue twister)

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Originally Posted by Payotz

I mean that Bozja is supposed to be the ShB replacement for Heaven or High.

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Really I thought Bozja was supposed to be another version of Eureka, which is essentially what it is but improved. They both serve the same main purpose: content specific to getting relics. Its aspect of also being a good source of xp is a secondary feature. And I'm glad it has that secondary feature because you are correct, it is in a way replacing the lack of a ShB deep dungeon through the xp gains. But this still does not change what the main purpose of the content is intended to be.

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Originally Posted by Payotz

I'm down to do Heaven or High or PoTD casually if it means I can go to lvl 80 with it (aka, add another 50 floors to it like PoTD in HW). Is it repeatable? Sure, but it does need an expansion into ShB.

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I completely agree that ShB is missing a deep dungeon of its own (believe me, that disappointed me a lot) but part of the beauty of FF is old content rarely becomes entirely irrelevant due to lvl sync, players usually playing multiple classes and many rewards being cosmetic so they don't lose value like gear. Even gear itself retains value due to glam, but of course less than the point in which it was a legitimate source of a stat upgrade. Go to reddit right now and you'll see posts from people who are proud they beat floor 200 of PotD. Players are still doing that old content you do not consider repeatable.

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Originally Posted by Payotz

Crafting itself is a window wherein you experience content. That's like saying NIN is repeatable content. It's not. You have to experience repeatable content through it.

Crafting what? Furniture? Oh you mean playing the market? You mean getting gil? I consider that side fluff as it necessiates the players to make the content themselves. (SE never had a hand in undercutting wars, nor do they influence the market.)

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You forgot houses, apartments and fc rooms exist? People can do stuff with that furniture you know, and some people adore decorating. Some players change their decor to match the events in the game. I do this for my fc house, and I plan the decor well in advance of the event itself. I find this to be a lot of fun and my fc members always look forward to it. Never mind how tremendously useful housing is for those who rp.

Also again just because you don't find crafting fulfilling doesn't mean others do not. There is a person in my fc who specifically mains crafting. She loves it above everything else, and she is far from the only player like this. Many people in my fc really enjoy crafting, and many don't. It's not for everyone. But the point is that it's a source of enjoyment for many players.

For a time crafting and gathering was the only thing I could consistently do because of a disability that was flaring up really badly. I'm very thankful crafting and gathering is as advanced as it is because it literally kept me sane during a time when most gaming activities were out of the question. I was also able to enjoy decorating during this time. If I stayed in WoW...well pet battles would have been my only option.

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Originally Posted by Payotz

Which is unfortunate really. It's really dragged down by the backend not being as snappy as it should be. There are a lot of interesting job designs in PvP that are even a lot more interesting than PvE that majority of the playerbase couldn't experience cause of how unpopular. (TK MnK was in there at one point. That was fun)

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Yea I am aware the server tick doesn't do pvp any favours. It's easy to get into the rhythm of it in pve but pvp is a very different story. My boyfriend does a lot of pvp and while he does enjoy it he very regularly curses at the game over the server tick making it frustrating at times ;D

Again it's fine if you don't consider repeating certain content to be worth your time, but that does not make it worthless to everyone else as well. We're all different so we're going to like different things.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

For YOU that is the case. For those who asked for New Game+ that is not the case, and personally I have several alts so that's not the case for me either.

You are consistently mistaking content you don't want to repeat for content that is not repeatable. If you don't want to do certain content over and over again that's fine, not saying you aren't allowed to feel that way. I am saying that your preferences aren't a reference point for everyone else's preferences. (my god that last bit is a tongue twister)

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I'm curious, how many people do you think spend their time every content drought making an alt and repeating MSQ?
And how many people do you think uses New Game+ as their own content to do whenever there is a content drought?

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Really I thought Bozja was supposed to be another version of Eureka, which is essentially what it is but improved. They both serve the same main purpose: content specific to getting relics. Its aspect of also being a good source of xp is a secondary feature. And I'm glad it has that secondary feature because you are correct, it is in a way replacing the lack of a ShB deep dungeon through the xp gains. But this still does not change what the main purpose of the content is intended to be.

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I'm pretty sure there's a Fan letter or something where the dev team specifically said that DD was gone because those resources went into Bozja or that there's "no DD so use Bozja instead". Actually nvm, they first said it was for the farm content that's coming in Endwalker, then they kept saying that Bozja took up most of those resources instead. Can't find the source for the second part though. It's weird.

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You forgot houses, apartments and fc rooms exist? People can do stuff with that furniture you know, and some people adore decorating. Some players change their decor to match the events in the game. I do this for my fc house, and I plan the decor well in advance of the event itself. I find this to be a lot of fun and my fc members always look forward to it. Never mind how tremendously useful housing is for those who rp.

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Which I honestly consider as side fluff. Nothing's wrong with Side fluff, in fact the game thrives on it.
All I'm saying is this:

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See, there's a reason why most people's experience in the game is literally log in, alt+tab and do something else.
Not all players RP yes, that's why they need to add more content on top of it if these players don't wanna engage in the side fluff the game has at this time.
They need to add content too for these types of players.

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All in all, the real question I want you to answer is do you think that the content FFXIV has at the time has enough staying power for 5-6 months?
If so, why? If no, what can be done with it?

If you really want to know just simply go watch all the WoW refugee videos on Youtube. They are all from people who used to play WoW and moved on to FFXIV and give reviews on why and how FFXIV is better overall and their experience with both. Personally i only played WoW for like 2 weeks back in 2006 and that was it so i can't give much on this subject. But i can say that with Blizzard re-releasing WoW classic and with people not happy with the latest Blizzcon, etc., WoW isn't doing great.

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Originally Posted by Payotz

I'm curious, how many people do you think spend their time every content drought making an alt and repeating MSQ?
And how many people do you think uses New Game+ as their own content to do whenever there is a content drought?

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I never once made any mention of what anyone does during a content drought. All I have been doing is informing you that some of the things you don't find worth your time to do, others do find enjoyable. Which appears to be an alien concept to you.

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Originally Posted by Payotz

I'm pretty sure there's a Fan letter or something where the dev team specifically said that DD was gone because those resources went into Bozja or that there's "no DD so use Bozja instead". Actually nvm, they first said it was for the farm content that's coming in Endwalker, then they kept saying that Bozja took up most of those resources instead. Can't find the source for the second part though. It's weird.

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It's like you forgot that Eureka and HoH came in the same expansion. Maybe you did forget. At this point I don't know because frankly you seem to be willfully ignoring the idea that not everyone gets fun out of the game the same way you do.

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Originally Posted by Payotz

All in all, the real question I want you to answer is do you think that the content FFXIV has at the time has enough staying power for 5-6 months?
If so, why? If no, what can be done with it?

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Again here I could inform you of the many things players can do and the many things other players enjoy that you do not, which in some cases is enough for them to still have fun up until the next patch but honestly I just give up. You have no intention of trying to understand that not everyone approaches the game the way you do.

Also SE have said many times they don't want the game to force everyone to log in every single day. They want us to have time to do other things. Maybe if you're bored then do something else with your time instead of being puzzled that there are players who enjoy doing the msq more than once, enjoy crafting and a lot of other things you deem irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by Payotz

All in all, the real question I want you to answer is do you think that the content FFXIV has at the time has enough staying power for 5-6 months?

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Get the triceratops mount, which requires 1,000 S rank kills from ShB.
Get the tiger mount which requires 2,000 S rank kills.
Get the Pteranodon mount that requires work in the Firmament on every discipline.
Get all the PvP mounts that involves 100 of each activity, sometimes while with other GC.
Get all the Gold Saucer mounts, rewards and TT cards.
Get all the extreme trial and savage mounts.
Get all the relic weapons in the game.
Defeat POTD solo.

See you in a few years.

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Originally Posted by Payotz

Interesting. Do you engage in side fluff in FFXIV? Stuff like house parties, player events, and maybe even just socializing? Or do you login to do roulettes dailies and normal raids as weeklies only, or do you do something else in the game after you've done everything? And how many alts have you made as of now?

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In FFXIV, I used to do other stuff when I was in an FC and also when I worked less hours during the week. But without an FC and working more hours in the past year, I've had to prioritize what I actually have fun doing that I can do on my own. Additionally, part of the reason why I'm abandoning my current character for a new one for Endwalker is that I realize that I can have fun doing content with just one or two jobs (I used to switch jobs for fun). So I don't want to have "unfinished" jobs on my character that I won't be playing any more.

I like only a subset of the game (mainly instanced battle content), but I like it a lot. So I would finish a patch within the day it launches and then for the next 16 or so weeks until the next patch launches, dailies and weeklies are my regular gameplay, being in combat with random people playing with different gears, jobs, skills, knowledges, and personalities.

The gear grind kind of directs how I approach the content, but at the end of the day, I don't choose content based on how efficient it is to get the reward, but on how fun it is. I would choose roulette over hunt, for example, even if hunt is more efficient/faster at capping the weekly tomestone (if indeed it is).

As for alts, I do not like alts, so I tend to focus on one character at a time unless I want to play on a different data center (which is rare) while keeping my current character. I do go through multiple characters because I tend to try things out, realize I don't like it, and decide I don't want to have any record of having ever done that content without finishing it on my character. So my current character is less than a year old, and it will also be replaced by the end of Shadowbringers.

Anyways, to take as an aside the earlier part of this thread I was in...

Probably best for me to go with bullet points.

Positives for WoW:
-Technically endless dungeon content that eventually becomes exceedingly difficult. Good source of challenge if I'm looking for it.
-More (not strictly better, just more) raid content.
-Personal history of play (been playing since I was a kid).
-Familial history of play (play with a lot of family, they all refuse to switch to any other MMO)
-Personally speaking, familiarity. I'm never in doubt as to where I am, what I'm doing, or why I'm doing it... even when I don't want to be doing it.

Positives for FFXIV:
-Don't really feel pressured to do any one piece of content strictly due to a bonus or benefit in another. No pressure to do crafting/gathering unless I want gil, no pressure to do PvP unless I like appearances, no pressure to raid for gear benefit in other content, etc.
-General day-to-day content is less grindy.
-Raids seem more enjoyable and simultaneously more regularly cleared by people in that content. Loot structure is solid.
-Communities are more typically together for fun/socialization while doing content, rather than being together specifically for content.
-Alts on one character. Specifically, alt professions on one character. I don't need a network of separate characters that I then have to level, gear, and train in professions. It's all on one character, and the separate classes all have the same story/zone access.
-Theme and general engagement, but that's personal taste.

Why would I waste time comparing FFXIV to an inferior game?

Wow trsnsmog is about the only thing I'd like to see. Everything else about this game is perfect for me. I don't care for what wow has devolved into and I don't care for the mythic raid/dungeon e-peen elitism. It's nice and friendly here. I can craft, run dungeons or hunts or fates or whatever and just enjoy myself. If I wanted to go hard mode then yes I could do that here too I guess but it's never been my thing. The difference here is that if I don't go hard mode on the content, it doesn't feel like I'm miles behind lioe.it does in wow. That and the story quality here just seals the deal for me. No hurrying. Just enjoyment.

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: How does FF14 compare to WoW? (And other MMOs)

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FF 14 in every aspect is superior.

In WOWs latest expac they tried to copy Palace of the Dead and it FAILED. Dismally.

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they're practically sycophantic towards it

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One of their favourite memes is "No one quits WOW they always come back".




.............Yeah, I facepalmed at that one too.

I have been playing both game for years and here is my take on this topic :

What is better in wow :

- Better raids that feels like raids and not only monsters in a box,
- Blizzards seems to have a better mastery on wow's gameplay than SE on FFXIV's gameplay (a lot of heavily recycled mechanics in FFXIV and gameplay rarely evolves while wow's is overhauled in each expansion),
- Blizzard is unafraid to change and try new stuff in each expansions (for the better and worse),
- Overall, the server feels more responsive.
- Huge world and actually very decent leveling experience since the level squish,
- More replay value in content,
- Flexible raid sizes,
- Best itemization that isn't merely a boring increase in stats with effects on some parts of gear, legendaries, trinkets, etc,
- Better character customization with specs and covenants.

What is better in FFXIV :

- Better graphisms and artistic direction (some encounters are visually stunning),
- Better cutscenes,
- Better out of combat experience in overworld content (despite it being quite small),
- Better transmogs and non battle related character customization.

I'd say better housing if everyone could access the content but how messy the system is I can't mention it. I'll also pretend PVP doesn't exist in FFXIV....

Main issue with FFXIV is content is great the first time around due to graphisms but then the existing content gets very boring.

Probably replying to ancient history at this point but...

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Things that WoW has:
- Better Transmog System/Banking/Inventory System
- Better PVP
- Trade Chat
- Better Leveling
- Better Endgame
- Larger Community, albeit more toxic
- In-Game Store that actually works and accepts your payments
- Better Add-ons
- Feels like an MMO
- Better Punishment System (this is newly added)

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Having come back from Shadowlands a few months ago...
- Better Transmog System/Banking/Inventory System
- Yes, WoW has a much better transmog system, but I disagree with banking and inventory. WoW's inventory system is tied completely to the bag slots you have and everything goes into them. Crafting materials, general use items, gear, etc. I love FF14's inventory setup way better than WoW's, especially for the gear management as someone who mained Warrior and Shaman when I last played.

- Better PVP
- Mostly agree - FF14's PvP has grown on me, but in general I do tend to miss WSG and AB.

- Trade Chat
- At least on my server, Trade Chat was a toxic cesspool of hate speech, trolling and bad faith political arguments. Trade Chat is awful and 100% should not be considered something "better".

- Better Leveling
- Matter of opinion on this - I prefer FF14's level experience to WoW's. On WoW you play through the same story over and over again for each alt you make. With FF14 you can do roulettes, Deep Dungeon, etc. and have options.

- Better Endgame
- Again, a matter of opinion. Raid-wise? Absolutely agree. Other than that, Mythic+ is boring and repetitive and I got tired of the drip feed story in Shadowlands real quick.

- Larger Community, albeit more toxic
- A larger more toxic community is definitely not a better thing...

- In-Game Store that actually works and accepts your payments
- Agreed!

- Better Add-ons
- I personally detest Add-ons and the fact that the majority of the WoW community feels they are necessary to play the game "right". If your game requires player-made add-ons to run properly, the company running the game has screwed up somewhere.

- Feels like an MMO
- I've generally found myself approaching FF14 and WoW with a similar play style; they both feel like MMOs to me. Not sure what you mean here?

- Better Punishment System (this is newly added)
- Unless this was added since December, I disagree entirely. Because of the way items for Legendary Armor dropped in dungeons, Blizzard practically begged people to bail on the dungeon after the boss that drops the item you're looking for was beaten (whether you got it or not) and you got no penalty for doing so.

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Blizzard is unafraid to change and try new stuff in each expansions (for the better and worse),

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More borrowed power and more gutted classes when its taken away yay.

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Overall, the server feels more responsive.

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The server that is shut down for 1 -`10 hours a week 52 weeks a year x 5 million players = 520 paid for hours per person per year @ $17.25 a month ( the price has gone up ) = close to 2.3 million dollars a year in paid game time that players never get to use.

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Huge world and actually very decent leveling experience since the level squish

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Except if you arent American, then your server is tied to California time which means you play in pitch darkness 24 hours a day. Want to see daylight ingame if you live in Sydney? Better log in at 2am your time then. How long has it been since players have been begging them to change or fix this..what is it...five years now?

WOW has also had a continuing issue with server lag which still hasnt been fixed.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

More borrowed power and more gutted classes when its taken away yay.



The server that is shut down for 1 -`10 hours a week 52 weeks a year x 5 million players = 520 paid for hours per person per year @ $17.25 a month ( the price has gone up ) = close to 2.3 million dollars a year in paid game time that players never get to use.



Except if you arent American, then your server is tied to California time which means you play in pitch darkness 24 hours a day. Want to see daylight ingame if you live in Sydney? Better log in at 2am your time then. How long has it been since players have been begging them to change or fix this..what is it...five years now?

WOW has also had a continuing issue with server lag which still hasnt been fixed.

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I don't get the argument regarding scheduled maintenance as people aren't logged in 24/7'. As for daylight ingame, there is an item to force daylight you can buy in the caverns of times ^^ (even though I live in europe so I have european servers)

Also I don't really know what to tell you about the lag as I haven't experienced lags since WOTLK and as I write this message, I sit at 2 ms lag.

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Originally Posted by Stanelis

Also I don't really know what to tell you about the lag as I haven't experienced lags since WOTLK and as I write this message, I sit at 2 ms lag.

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I'm not gonna lie, this is just blatantly untrue. Launch weeks regularly destroy the servers, Blizzard randomly gets DDOSed on given weeks for several hours at a time, and latency in general has gotten worse over the years. Sitting at 2ms means nothing if the actual world server latency is high due to an issue on their end. I'm speaking from experience here, given I played Legion and BFA basically most of the day every day of the week.

Somewhere in the middle, with WoW, ESO and BDO being the cream of the crop, and XIV being somewhere between GW2 and games like that. WoW looks like it will be the mmo king forever lol......
https://altarofgaming.com/all-mmos-s...pulation-2018/

XIV is a top mmo, just not the cream of the crop compared to games like BDO with insane character creation, and Wow just being....WoW.....I feel they seen the mistakes made with XIV, and their next mmo may be the cream, of the crop.

https://www.prowrestlingtees.com/pub...oman1022-t.png

FF fan, but just keeping it 100%

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Originally Posted by MonsutaMan

Somewhere in the middle, with WoW, ESO and BDO being the cream of the crop, and XIV being somewhere between GW2 and games like that. WoW looks like it will be the mmo king forever lol......
https://altarofgaming.com/all-mmos-s...pulation-2018/

XIV is a top mmo, just not the cream of the crop compared to games like BDO with insane character creation, and Wow just being....WoW.....I feel they seen the mistakes made with XIV, and their next mmo may be the cream, of the crop.

https://www.prowrestlingtees.com/pub...oman1022-t.png

FF fan, but just keeping it 100%

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character creation doesn't really mean much when you can literally ignore every other aspect of the game and brute force your way through it. BDO may have numbers but... the amount of complaints ive seen from players rivals that of WoW

and WoW has been dying a VERY slow, VERY painful death for years at this point. numbers are key in THIS CASE: WoW's numbers drop about a month after expacs, and with no content to keep anyone but the most dedicated entertained, it's going to stay like that. WoW experiences a HUGE spike every single expac, and then a drop worse than the last, every time, with shadowlands being the absolute worse. Having numbers "by your side" doesn't mean much when the numbers show you're bleeding users and you can't even keep 10% of your subscribed playerbase active for longer than the month after your expac drops. WoW has only 2% of it's subscribed playerbase active per month as of writing this - meanwhile FFXIV keeps roughly 8-10% active.

https://i.gyazo.com/4ce11b4aeedc420e...ec4d51287b.png
Final Fantasy 14 - Souce: https://mmo-population.com/r/ffxiv

https://i.gyazo.com/6b518d5a87bcd96a...86a55efbfc.png
World of Warcraft - Source: https://mmo-population.com/r/wow

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I don't get the argument regarding scheduled maintenance as people aren't logged in 24/7'.

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The fact that Blizzard doesnt refund people the millions of dollars they get from unused gametime? They pay for seven days and get six. UI also note that FRF 14 doesnt shut their servers down every week. Odd, innit?

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As for daylight ingame, there is an item to force daylight you can buy in the caverns of times ^^ (even though I live in europe so I have european servers)

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Oh you mean the toy with a 24 hour cooldown, doesnt persist through death? Or the potion that cant be bought for gold but requires grinding timewalk dungeons?

Sorry but when an MMO cant or wont manage a basic QoL like a unified time of day system, its broken. Blizzard also has a game calendar that is ALSO tied to US time....like making a calendar that shows events in local time is hard?

I hate to say this, but Blizzards favourite mantra seems to be "this cant be done". It can be done, they just WONT and they dont care.

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Originally Posted by MilkieTea

and WoW has been dying a VERY slow, VERY painful death for years at this point. numbers are key in THIS CASE: WoW's numbers drop about a month after expacs, and with no content to keep anyone but the most dedicated entertained, it's going to stay like that. WoW experiences a HUGE spike every single expac, and then a drop worse than the last, every time, with shadowlands being the absolute worse. Having numbers "by your side" doesn't mean much when the numbers show you're bleeding users and you can't even keep 10% of your subscribed playerbase active for longer than the month after your expac drops. WoW has only 2% of it's subscribed playerbase active per month as of writing this - meanwhile FFXIV keeps roughly 8-10% active.

https://i.gyazo.com/4ce11b4aeedc420e...ec4d51287b.png
Final Fantasy 14 - Souce: https://mmo-population.com/r/ffxiv

https://i.gyazo.com/6b518d5a87bcd96a...86a55efbfc.png
World of Warcraft - Source: https://mmo-population.com/r/wow

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One important point here is how final fantasy has a slow but steady increase of activity over the years even during non xpac launch months which is a sign of a far healthier mmorpg while WoW keeps getting spikes with an xpac launch that quickly vanish after many people who "gonna give it 123th chance" leave again.

WoW doesnt have a playerbase with a future, it is extremely toxic and unfriendly to new players which are pushed away by the ridiculous amounts of elitists, tryhards metaslaves and then you have the addicts and sunk cost fallacy victims who might hate the game but cannot imagine leaving because they ll lose all their manipulative time limited and exclusive rewards from years of playing bad expansions so they wont miss said rewards.

FF14 has a future because it has a better community and casual friendly design, WoW will keep their addicts hooked and elitists around but throughout the years more people leave than join the game.

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Originally Posted by SecretIsland

These two seem to be the biggest MMOs on the market right now. I have heard over and over again that FF14 has a nicer community than WoW, and my impression is that WoW is more hardcore. What are the main differences between FF14 and WoW? I would love for someone who has played both games to give us some idea on how the two games are different. (Comparisons with other games are welcome too! Always curious and always willing to learn more!)

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When I stopped playing WoW, I got suckered back a couple times by friends who were also feeling the expansion hype and we played a bit.. then they stopped and I was left to grind out whatever sidetrack I felt like pursuing. Lots of that driven by FOMO. Blizzards ever present favorite tactic to keep people playing. These things are in the game and if you don't do them NOW.. you will never have the chance to get them again. Achievements, mounts, toys, you name it there was this list of things that had to be done by whatever date or it was never coming back. Also if I wanted to do any current content I either had to suffer through some of the highest pressure and least helpful PUGs I have ever experienced (this is of course anecdotal, i am introverted and react poorly to pressure with no assistance) or I had to be in an active guild. This happened twice and each time I stopped playing sooner and sooner. I eventually just passed on MoP because I wasn't feeling it and I had started playing FFXIV so I had stuff to do.


Unfortunately this was pre ARR. FFXIV was just awful and I petered out on that too. I ended up just playing shooters and bouncing from trendy MMO to flash in the pan startups.
Then ARR dropped. The hype felt real and I got hardcore sucked in to the story and all the world had to offer for several years. During my FFXIV career I've lapsed for over a month maybe twice and each time I came back it was of my own volition. While I did have friends that surged and ebbed with expansions, just like WoW, it always just felt I enjoyed myself more even alone than I did in WoW trying to drag together people to keep on the front of progression.


So in short, WoW only had value in fear of missing things and having close friends to play with, FFXIV is persistently a world I get to live in by myself and caters to whatever I feel like doing that week even If I never add another "friend".

I very recently took a break from WoW and am giving FFXIV a try.

Unless I am mistaken, one very big difference between WoW and FFXIV is that WoW is much more solo friendly.

In WoW a player can solo from level 1- 60 (current level cap) and never join a group if that is their wish. Upon reaching level cap, the solo player still has a lot of activities available to them.

In FFXIV, I will apparently be forced to group for a level 15 story quest(dungeon) and then periodically after that just to reach level cap.

I intend to give FFXIV a fair try, but forced grouping is definitely a fly in the ointment.

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Originally Posted by KenjoKuro

I very recently took a break from WoW and am giving FFXIV a try.

Unless I am mistaken, one very big difference between WoW and FFXIV is that WoW is much more solo friendly.

In WoW a player can solo from level 1- 60 (current level cap) and never join a group if that is their wish. Upon reaching level cap, the solo player still has a lot of activities available to them.

In FFXIV, I will apparently be forced to group for a level 15 story quest(dungeon) and then periodically after that just to reach level cap.

I intend to give FFXIV a fair try, but forced grouping is definitely a fly in the ointment.

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I will say right now that the chances of anyone even talking during most of your instance "checkpoints" is pretty low. You can easily ignore any chat as long as you're doing the bare minimums of your job and be fine. So yeah, you have to "group", but at this point everyone is so much on autopilot for anything under 80 content, they might as well be AI.

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Originally Posted by KenjoKuro

In WoW a player can solo from level 1- 60 (current level cap) and never join a group if that is their wish

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That is a matter of personal definitions really, joining a group through an automated group finder gets you into a group where you dont need to talk or communicate , they might as well be NPCs and you are there to just do what your role requires.

I personally define "forced grouping" when you are actually forced to actively deal with people(talk, explain why you play X) you dont like because it is the only way to get decent rewards, aka WoW, where if you want decent gear you have to deal with the most elitist, tryhard metaslave players in existence which are obsessed over raider IO score and meta specs and FotS combs, and unlike an automated group finder you cant simply ignore them and pretend they are NPCs because there's a good chance of wiping but you have no choice because all the cool rewards and locked behind that content.

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Originally Posted by KenjoKuro

Upon reaching level cap, the solo player still has a lot of activities available to them.

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I wouldnt really say that for WoW, your main activities would be seeing the story which is timegated at the start, then mindlessly farming world quest to get rep for factions which may or may not have anything interesting and old content.

Gear progression is gone for solo players the moment you reach 200ilvl, and the hilarious part is they literally put recommended ilvl to 225 for layer 8 twisting corridors while no solo players will ever reach that. (And yeah I know you dont rly need that, I did it with 205 but that is still what the average person sees)
You could try professions but they have been gutted to uselessness so honestly, WoW does not respect solo players else we would see actually decent rewards for solo play, the hardest to achieve solo reward would be TC 8 yet half the layers give 0 rewards because blizzard cant even be bothered thinking of good rewards for content that isnt l33t groups, hell the mount you get from layer 8 is only rly useful for making grinds faster.

What makes WoW better:
- Transmog system is superior in only one way: being able to look at and try on any piece of gear in the game regardless if you have it or not.
- Mythic dungeons system.
- Mechanics are always interesting each expansion.
- Mounts and achievements are vast.
- Addons. Mostly UI addons. I don't believe in using addons that give someone advantages. I mean what's the point.
- Classes and battle system feel more engaging and unique.
- Non instanced overworld.
- The idea of belonging to a covenant with special powers is a really great concept.
- The crafting/gathering system has more monetary value due to limitation of professions.
- Not having to treat everyone as if they have some hidden fragility.
- Blood Elves. Real paladins.

What makes XIV better:
- Housing.
- Graphics.
- Story.
- Most content rewards are generally obtainable with minimal to moderate effort. Exceptions being ultimate.
- Character customisation, emotes, cpose, glamour.
- Travel system.
- Content frequency and quality.
- Consolidation of regional/language servers.
- You join a PF, you don't "apply" for it.
- Doesn't pressure you to play, no false constant sense of "missing out on something"
- Easy and cheap to jump into the raid scene.
- More generalized content outside of raiding/keys.
- Reputation gates don't include flying.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

Why would I waste time comparing FFXIV to an inferior game?

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It's a shame that WoW has fallen so, so, so low. For expansions since MoP, people would say and laugh that WoW is dead. Mentally, WoW has been dead. Only difference now is they're trying to fill a dead horse and make it look alive each iteration.