Why people still USE ACT knowing their breaking TOS ??

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Originally Posted by Rilifane

Same here.
If I frequently see hardcasted heals, lots of hots all over the place and shields before every aoe, I will tune down my own healing and likely only heal as long as it's not a dps loss or to fill gaps when I know my co healer just blew all his resources and is now out of options. If they can't even wait for their own regens to heal people and have to burst with yet another aoe heal that's on them. I will not waste resources on something that's actually detrimental for the group.
There is no point in topping people asap because if they fail a mechanic they're toast anyway regardless of their hp. The only interesting part is when the next unavoidable will hit. As long as they're above the requires threshold they will be fine. Wether an aoe brings them to 50k or 10k really doesn't matter. Alive is alive. You don't get brownie points for people looking healthy or high speed topping.

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Tbh, I don't like the fact that some healers would wait for a long time to heal while dps. I understand about regens, and it's fine to wait and be healed by one, but as a dps I've died many times while doing mechanics correctly because healers prioritize dps over heals. It's frustrating, but as a dps there is nothing I can do but wait and die at the next mechanic because not even a pot or second wind could save me.

I mostly pug, and I'd rather have my cohealer dps while only healing on heavy aoe mechs. But I don't like them not healing at all from the start. If you want to do 100% dps and 0% heal, you're on the wrong job. And I'm not exagerating, I've had healers like that on multiple "learning/practice" parties where you actually need to heal through mistakes.

If I had a static and I knew my cohealer I would't overheal as much, if at all. I know that because I have a cohealer friend and when I'm with her I rarely have to worry. I know her playstyle, and she knows mine. But while I pug, I'd rather keep people alive and clear.

What I like is you two are having a back and forth about the merits of under healing and over healing and basically out of spite you stop doing your role. It’s because of this attitude that ACT will always be banned.


ACT is about personal improvement while comparing YOURSELF to others. Not judging other people on their poor performance. If you feel so compelled, help others improve also. Stop being these nasty passive aggressive people

Overhealing equates to wasted time and resources. Overhealing, unlike DPS, doesn't make a fight shorter, doesn't save anybody and doesn't have a purpose.

While it's sometimes unavoidable, it should be minimized.

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Originally Posted by Wyakin

What I like is you two are having a back and forth about the merits of under healing and over healing and basically out of spite you stop doing your role. It’s because of this attitude that ACT will always be banned.


ACT is about personal improvement while comparing YOURSELF to others. Not judging other people on their poor performance. If you feel so compelled, help others improve also. Stop being these nasty passive aggressive people

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You don't need ACT to see a co-healer is over healing. Keeping medica 2 up and putting regen on every single person (I've seen this horror several times) and constantly healing while the tank is missing like 5% health...that's overhealing. The only difference is I don't have the exact percentage, however just physically seeing that, I will cut down on the healing and dps more. That's not being passive aggressive, that's me thinking and going "Oh I don't need to heal right now the other person is doing it....alot".

I also don't give suggestions in this game any more because people don't listen and or get offended no matter how nicely you put it. Just look at ACT/FFLogs and react accordingly.

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Originally Posted by PharisHanasaki

Tbh, I don't like the fact that some healers would wait for a long time to heal while dps. I understand about regens, and it's fine to wait and be healed by one, but as a dps I've died many times while doing mechanics correctly because healers prioritize dps over heals. It's frustrating, but as a dps there is nothing I can do but wait and die at the next mechanic because not even a pot or second wind could save me.

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If you died to regular mechanics the healer was just bad. We don't prioritize dps over essential healing. Healer dps is all about heal efficiency, not healing as little as possible. We don't want to avoid healing, we want to avoid wasted healing.

A good healer will often wait a long time to heal because the healing isn't needed yet and they have it all mapped out. A good example is e6s which has huge gaps between some of its raidwide damage and is actually one of the easiest fights to heal. It's not uncommon to leave half the team sitting below 50% for upwards of 20+ seconds, but they're in no danger at all because Assize is coming off cd 5 sec before the next damage, or a lily will be up or asylum is ticking, or an intermission is coming where a medica II can be popped.
However, most co-heals panic miles before this and top the party off, wasting the good healers oGcds and probably then going to the forums to rant about their cohealer "refusing to heal" and maybe making up a few stories about dead dps to pad their story.

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Originally Posted by Wyakin

If you feel so compelled, help others improve also. Stop being these nasty passive aggressive people

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We'd like to help, but it's bannable. If you offer help and advice based on accurate figures, you can be reported for using third party tools. Nor are you allowed to press that advice on anyone if they don't want help. However, it's absolutely fine to simply kick someone for "difference in playstyle". So that's purely an Enix created issue. We're encouraged to keep quiet and boot them if we don't like it.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

However, most co-heals panic miles before this and top the party off, wasting the good healers oGcds and probably then going to the forums to rant about their cohealer "refusing to heal" and maybe making up a few stories about dead dps to pad their story.

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This so much. I lost count on how many of my recitation+excogs have gone to waste because my co-healer kept healing the tank between each auto-attack and wouldn't let any of my timed heals do their job. Sniff.

While technically against ToS, parsers are tolerated.
What is not tolerated is harassment based on parsers.

So you are free to use it for yourself to improve your performance and with your team to improve your raid experience. But you cannot use parser to attack people.

And yes, as mentioned before, this is an old topic and SE currently doesn't want to add a parser. Closest thing to a parse is the Stone Sky Sea.

With the introduction of Dancer (where your DPS is reliant on your dancing partner being the highest DPS in the party), I though they would do something more but they did not.

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Originally Posted by Drakeos

Seeing streamers using these on their stream and also non raiders (group parties/dungeons) maybe ffxiv need to add their own version of parsing to remove need of addons/plugins ???

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FFXIV need its own parse as long as it has dps checks. What they shoudn't do by any means is block ACT, if they do that there won't be any point on raiding or trying to improve, parsers are something necessary to know how good or bad you do. The tools that allow you to analyze yourself and improve should never be banned, in fact, should be included in the game itself no matter how much "toxicity" the devs think it creates because there will be always toxicity on one way or another, be it by "toxic elitism" or people that we "don't pay their sub" and take the sligthest advice as a personal offence.

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Originally Posted by Gula

Once again, an entire thread as solid proof as to why we don't need parses.

[puts up REEEE shield]

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Disagree completely. If you are sensitive to people who expect equal contributions then you should either look for a single player game or build your own pf with like minded underperforming players

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Originally Posted by AbelArchaniEA

or build your own pf with like minded underperforming players

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And wipe to an enrage at 30% as a result.

Personally i use ACT to see how i perform and how it could be improved. Nothing more, nothing less.
As a side effect it made aware of all these underperforming players, like 5k samurais in ShB, but eh.

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Originally Posted by Flay_wind

And wipe to an enrage at 30% as a result.

Personally i use ACT to see how i perform and how it could be improved. Nothing more, nothing less.
As a side effect it made aware of all these underperforming players, like 5k samurais in ShB, but eh.

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Don't you pass that literally by auto-attacking?

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Originally Posted by Videra

Don't you pass that literally by auto-attacking?

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The fight in question where i saw that player is somewhat movement heavy (Memoria Misera), but still i have no idea how they managed that with only a few deaths.

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Originally Posted by PharisHanasaki

Tbh, I don't like the fact that some healers would wait for a long time to heal while dps. I understand about regens, and it's fine to wait and be healed by one, but as a dps I've died many times while doing mechanics correctly because healers prioritize dps over heals. It's frustrating, but as a dps there is nothing I can do but wait and die at the next mechanic because not even a pot or second wind could save me.

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Being calm about low HP bars and healers not healing right away can be learned and works miles towards improving the own gameplay. Acknowledging damage patterns and knowing the times when people need to be topped at the latest to survive the next unavoidable is part of a healer's job and once you know them someone sitting at 20% will not faze you in the slightest.
Not only does it help to play far more efficiently it also helps being calmer when things go wrong and truly understand how strong some oGCDs are.

You get the occasional bad healer who completely tunnels on dps but healing late is not inherently bad. On the contrary, it allows healers to use their whole toolkit much more efficiently. I know these healers exist, I met them aswell but you have to keep in mind that in practice parties everyone is also trying to find ways to optimize the the fight for themselves. Melees greed by jumping out of aoes super fucking late and back at the boss right away and sometimes they die from it. Lesson learned, timing adjusted. Casters greed by trying to squeeze out that one cast until they have to move and sometimes they die from it. Time to move their butt sooner or shift some GCDs around next time. And it's not a bad thing. Practice parties are not there to turtle your way to enrage, learning whow greedy you can be is also an important part.
Healers have to be allowed to do the same. They need to be given room for experimenting and sometimes miscalculating aswell.
They don't "refuse to heal", they're trying to find a way that works best to heal without sacrificing too much dps.

Escpecially during the earlier stages of a fight where not much is happening it's good to squeeze out as much dps as possible to have more room for error later into the fight. Over the course of 10min+, mistakes pile up. People losing track of mechanics and dying, rotational mistakes, letting a raidbuff drift etc.
So it's escpecially common to see healers heal quite late during the first couple of minutes of a fight because that's when there's not much going on and mistakes are less likely so they can get away with healing late or using Swift for dps/ weaving.
Or Star placement. I'm notoriously bad at aiming my star correctly when in a rush to avoid clipping...

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Originally Posted by Videra

Don't you pass that literally by auto-attacking?

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Free style SAMs can pull off some amazing feats.

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Originally Posted by Flay_wind

And wipe to an enrage at 30% as a result.

Personally i use ACT to see how i perform and how it could be improved. Nothing more, nothing less.
As a side effect it made aware of all these underperforming players, like 5k samurais in ShB, but eh.

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The last person that openly admitted that here was banned for 10 days and I actually feel this thread has the secondary purpose of tricking people into admitting it.

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Originally Posted by Rasikko

The last person that openly admitted that here was banned for 10 days and I actually feel this thread has the secondary purpose of tricking people into admitting it.

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Tbh, i find the idea of banning someone over something they said without any concrete evidence to be rather silly.

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Originally Posted by Flay_wind

Tbh, i find the idea of banning someone over something they said without any concrete evidence to be rather silly.

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Guilty until proven innocent is the approach things like this get taken sadly.

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Originally Posted by Rasikko

Free style SAMs can pull off some amazing feats.


The last person that openly admitted that here was banned for 10 days and I actually feel this thread has the secondary purpose of tricking people into admitting it.

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My post got deleted, but I didn't get banned it seems.

Edit: I got a mail with a warning stating that I can get banned on forums, or even have my FFXIV account perma banned if I violate guidelines again. Does this mean you may even lose access to the game (not just forums) by posting something against ToS?

Relevant quote from email:

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Further violations made on the forum against the Square Enix Account Terms of Use, the FINAL FANTASY XIV User Agreement, or the FINAL FANTASY XIV Forum Guidelines, may result in forum access rights being revoked, and the temporary, or permanent, suspension of access to your FINAL FANTASY XIV service account. This would mean losing access to both the forum and to FINAL FANTASY XIV itself, so please take sufficient care before posting.

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Statement about relevant guideline sections I've violated:

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Relevant sections from the FINAL FANTASY XIV Guidelines:
• Doing anything that is prohibited in the the Square Enix Account Terms of Use.
• Taking any other actions that are deemed inappropriate by Square Enix in our sole discretion.

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So yeah, make sure you don't make posts admitting that you are using ACT cause you might indeed actually get banned if someone reports it.

I had however sort of provoked the mods to ban me so maybe that was the determining factor (+the fact I reported my own post), hence that second (vague) section from guidelines I've seemingly violated.

Yoshi-P said in a live letter that he's basically fine with it.
It's a grey area but he's ultimately fine with it if you use it just for yourself. He said act doesn't hack the game, all it does it take the damage numbers and calculates it. He was giving an example that someone with a calculator could do the same thing (nobody would ever do that ofc).
He was always comparing it to like using discord which is also a 3rd party app that people be using to talk and should he start banning people that use too? So he said its a grey area.
Overall, all the ACT haters should stop trying to fight it. The ONLY way for you to get banned if you're being jerk and calling out people's dps.

The ONLY thing Yoshi-P takes issue with it is the other things ACT can do, which is someone lots of raiders know about and its the things that actually give an advantage over other players. Such at the thing that lets you see AoE's that you shouldnt be able to or the one that lets you change the waymarkers.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

I had however sort of provoked the mods to ban me so maybe that was the determining factor (+the fact I reported my own post), hence that second (vague) section from guidelines I've seemingly violated.

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I'm pretty sure this is the only way it would have been deleted anyway. There's lots of reportable posts that go by every day without being deleted, so aside from the most egregious cases or hot button topics I suspect the mods don't proactively delete anything unless it's brought to their attention via a report.

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Why

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Because the game has 0 built-in ways to check your performance.

How was I doing? Who knows! Clown fiesta time! Woooo!

Parsing has been something we've done in every MMO with a combat log. We had to make websites to parse them for EQ raids back in the day, and then game developers realized "If we're going to put timers on encounter length and limit participation, we should let players have some sense of how they're doing, and who is incapable of contributing the requisite amount".

That 14 pushes willful ignorance doesnt mean anyone who takes it any sort of seriously isnt going to use tools to improve themselves and improve their raid teams.

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He was giving an example that someone with a calculator could do the same thing (nobody would ever do that ofc).

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I had, at one point, something like 3000 log files for EQ in a folder for a ~6 month period of content, because we would stop a log, file it by date and encounter, start a new log per boss attempt, stop it after, run it through... logsplit? something like that we used to grep log files, it doesnt matter exactly, and use those to calculate everything, then repeat.

It suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucked, but there was no other way to do it (once content was on farm status, we just batched stuff together and did it at the end of the night).

So a few people built websites you could upload log files to that did it for you. And then we FINALLY got ways to track it in game.


Never underestimate what people will do to figure out just wtf is happening.

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Originally Posted by Gula

Once again, an entire thread as solid proof as to why we don't need parses.

[puts up REEEE shield]

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Actually I'd argue that the playerbase's general lack of interest in learning or trying to figure out how to play their classes is evidence that *something* needs to be done about making it so players are held more accountable for their performance in raids and dungeons.

I don't think you need to be pulling top damage or whatever in every single encounter in the game, especially if its not a hardcore raid or whatever, but knowing that there's a significant portion of the playerbase with Jobs at 80 that can't even manage the basic aspects of their Job? It's legitimately frustrating.

I don't parse -- but I do have nearly every job in the game leveled to 80. When you're familiar with job rotations, it isn't hard to notice when people aren't doing what they're supposed to do. I literally had a Bard in a run of Holminster Switch that *only* used Caustic Bite and Straight Shot. Stormbite was never put on any targets, Refulgent Arrow was never used, and they only played any songs when they reached bosses, and even then, they never used Bloodletter or Empyreal Arrow. Holminster is a Level 71 dungeon and they had Bard at Level 80 with Deepshadow Gear on. This person should have known better. The run took *forever* because my friend -- as the other DPS -- had to pick up this Bard's slack.

And this is a constant thing! Black Mages that don't use Enochian, Dragoons that don't use Blood/Life of the Dragon, Monks that don't even do their positionals. Healers that never use a DPS spell, and Tanks that refuse to mitigate any damage. It's a huge problem this community has -- and its just as toxic as someone yelling at another person for low DPS numbers via a parse or something of that nature.

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Originally Posted by ColorOfSakura

Actually I'd argue that the playerbase's general lack of interest in learning or trying to figure out how to play their classes is evidence that *something* needs to be done about making it so players are held more accountable for their performance in raids and dungeons.

I don't think you need to be pulling top damage or whatever in every single encounter in the game, especially if its not a hardcore raid or whatever, but knowing that there's a significant portion of the playerbase with Jobs at 80 that can't even manage the basic aspects of their Job? It's legitimately frustrating.

I don't parse -- but I do have nearly every job in the game leveled to 80. When you're familiar with job rotations, it isn't hard to notice when people aren't doing what they're supposed to do. I literally had a Bard in a run of Holminster Switch that *only* used Caustic Bite and Straight Shot. Stormbite was never put on any targets, Refulgent Arrow was never used, and they only played any songs when they reached bosses, and even then, they never used Bloodletter or Empyreal Arrow. Holminster is a Level 71 dungeon and they had Bard at Level 80 with Deepshadow Gear on. This person should have known better. The run took *forever* because my friend -- as the other DPS -- had to pick up this Bard's slack.

And this is a constant thing! Black Mages that don't use Enochian, Dragoons that don't use Blood/Life of the Dragon, Monks that don't even do their positionals. Healers that never use a DPS spell, and Tanks that refuse to mitigate any damage. It's a huge problem this community has -- and its just as toxic as someone yelling at another person for low DPS numbers via a parse or something of that nature.

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This, this, THIS. I cannot scream across how much this is the case, this is what matters.

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Originally Posted by Videra

This, this, THIS. I cannot scream across how much this is the case, this is what matters.

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There are a number of things they could do to help.

1. Emphasise Stone Sea Sky etc. when unlocking EX and Savage content. Perhaps having the first unlock of each expac have the quest take you there and award you with something for completing it.

2. Job quests. With future job quests being one at the start and one at the end of an expac. Have the first one feature a battle that walks you through the jobs mechanics. Serving as a kind of Hall of the Novice for higher levels.

3. Not personal damage meters, but personal 'scores' for certain duties. Only displayed once the duty has finished and only features your own score. It gives you a star rating for DPS(/healing) contribution for your particular job, and there's an achievement for getting 5 stars in x amount of duties.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

2. Job quests. With future job quests being one at the start and one at the end of an expac. Have the first one feature a battle that walks you through the jobs mechanics. Serving as a kind of Hall of the Novice for higher levels.

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While the intent is well meaning I cringe every time anybody suggests expanding Hall of the Novice. Compared to any other game tutorial instances I've played through HoN is head and shoulders above the rest. But that's relative and the bar is hilariously low.

• The tanks in the DPS instances don't AoE
• DPS are penalized if they hit anything other than the Tank's target
• DPS are not taught to AoE packs. Some of the blame here is class design where many don't get AoE abilities until their 30's or 40's.
• Tanks are taught AoE placement but not large pack management
• Unless you're levelling CNJ it's highly unlikely you'll do the Healer HoN.
• Healers aren't taught MP management. Again, class design. Physic is the only heal available at HoN's level.
• I don't think healers are penalized for gross overheals, but it's been a long time since I've leveled CNJ.

They need to fix the existing HoN before even thinking of adding newer mechanics to it.

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Originally Posted by GeminiReed

While the intent is well meaning I cringe every time anybody suggests expanding Hall of the Novice. Compared to any other game tutorial instances I've played through HoN is head and shoulders above the rest. But that's relative and the bar is hilariously low.

• The tanks in the DPS instances don't AoE
• DPS are penalized if they hit anything other than the Tank's target
• DPS are not taught to AoE packs. Some of the blame here is class design where many don't get AoE abilities until their 30's or 40's.
• Tanks are taught AoE placement but not large pack management
• Unless you're levelling CNJ it's highly unlikely you'll do the Healer HoN.
• Healers aren't taught MP management. Again, class design. Physic is the only heal available at HoN's level.
• I don't think healers are penalized for gross overheals, but it's been a long time since I've leveled CNJ.

They need to fix the existing HoN before even thinking of adding newer mechanics to it.

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I mean... the suggestion I just posted would come into play at level 80 in 6.0 and would be a new and different thing to HotN... so I'm not sure what your point is.
It wouldn't necessitate 'fixing' HotN because it would be different content and would effectively replace it, kinda like Trusts 'replacing' Squadrons.

Because it's the only way to measure your performance, and see if you need to improve.

Idea for in-game performance measurement:

SE maintains a database of average DPS / HPS for all max level jobs and item levels, and reports it to players privately.
So, after I've killed something, if I have the feature enabled, it reports: "Average level 80 NIN 485 DPS is 10000-17000 on this mob. You just did 2000."
It would not reveal you group's numbers, only yours against the average, so you'd know whether you need to seek improvement or not.

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Originally Posted by Videra

Nothing about ACT stresses or burns people out, it's practically what makes optimization - which many find fun - possible.

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It stresses me when I see that I can barely beat the healer on DPS. Actually, it's a sign that I should just stop running group content until I get some sleep so I can pay attention to my rotation.

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Originally Posted by SamSmoot

It stresses me when I see that I can barely beat the healer on DPS. Actually, it's a sign that I should just stop running group content until I get some sleep so I can pay attention to my rotation.

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You had me in the first half there.

ACT can only ruin one's experience if they let it. What gets me is people claim to not care about their numbers or style of play but then complain when someone calls out said numbers and style of play.

If people do not care then ACT should not be a problem just shrug it off and move on.

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Originally Posted by Awha

ACT can only ruin one's experience if they let it. What gets me is people claim to not care about their numbers or style of play but then complain when someone calls out said numbers and style of play.

If people do not care then ACT should not be a problem just shrug it off and move on.

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It actually can ruin someone's experience if others use it as a weapon against you. I've had it happen to me while I was still learning end game rotations for my job, and was kicked out of parties and disparaged while I was in them for it. And this is part of the reason Square is against them being in the game, at least officially.

They turn a blind eye to it if people are just using it for their own benefit or maybe if you're in a static and want to help your team improve, but they still officially keep the stance that they're agains the terms of service so that they can use that as the reason to ban someone from the game who's being toxic in the use of them.

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Originally Posted by Awha

ACT can only ruin one's experience if they let it. What gets me is people claim to not care about their numbers or style of play but then complain when someone calls out said numbers and style of play.

If people do not care then ACT should not be a problem just shrug it off and move on.

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Not caring about your numbers and not caring about being harassed are entirely different things. If new players are getting lectured and insulted through every story dungeon by tryhards who pretend MSQ content requires optimal everything, they'll just quit the game.

I don't like using unsupported 3rd party software because it can cause all kinds of problems, and it is technically against the rules. Some unofficial stance that they'll probably not do anything about it isn't enough for me to risk an account I've got a lot of money invested in.

Still, I do wish their were parsers in this game. They help you optimize and DPS races make boring content less boring. We just can't have nice things because people can't keep their opinions about other peoples performance to themselves.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Not caring about your numbers and not caring about being harassed are entirely different things. If new players are getting lectured and insulted through every story dungeon by tryhards who pretend MSQ content requires optimal everything, they'll just quit the game.

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The 'tryhards' I see do this usually are players who think theyre hot 's' cause they got ACT or read a guide once. This section of the player base tends to end up being casual or midcore at most from what Ive observed - People who dont know things talking down to other players. And even then, this is a rarity. In my time playing, in all the dungeons Ive been in, Ive only seen a handful of instances of a tryhard talking mad crap to a new player. And usually that results in the party telling said tryhard to stfu or get kicked. I honestly dont see the toxic smackdown on new players being widely tolerated in the player base, particularly in casual content.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

I don't like using unsupported 3rd party software because it can cause all kinds of problems, and it is technically against the rules. Some unofficial stance that they'll probably not do anything about it isn't enough for me to risk an account I've got a lot of money invested in.

Still, I do wish their were parsers in this game. They help you optimize and DPS races make boring content less boring. We just can't have nice things because people can't keep their opinions about other peoples performance to themselves.

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I think YoshiP has stated exactly his feelings on ACT, which was more or less as official as it can get. It literally is a "Yeah its against ToS, but...We dont do anything unless we see people abusing it." Devs know people use it, and savage encounters seem to be designed with some of that in mind. As long as harassment isnt a thing, it's fine. Keeping it third party actually makes it easier for SE too. Build it into teh game, and yes people who dont know how to use it or misbehave with it will become more prevalent, and dealing with said people either means a dramatic rise in dealing with harassment, or even being able to suspend people.

Can you imagine the junk GMs and Devs would have to deal with? "Why am I getting suspended! He clearly wasnt doing enough DPS! So we kicked him for not knowing how to play! If you dont want us to use this tool, why include it!?"

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Originally Posted by Melichoir

It literally is a "Yeah its against ToS, but...We dont do anything unless we see people abusing it."

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Wasn't it more along the lines of detection would require them to do something questionably legal so not really worth the effort of attempting to prosecute usage?

I get what you guys are saying, but if a person calls out your performance in a postive or negative way the end result is someone felt your performance did not meet their standards. On a individual level it is up to you if their criticism is worth looking into or not. Personally I think people get too caught up with the how something is said and not the why. Sure words have the ability to hurt, but if someone runs into an asshole ACT or not they will be assholes.

I think people sweat the small things for too much. When I started out I ran into a rdm while leveling a dog that complained about my damage in cutters cry because my single aoe did could not keep with theirs. Even quoted the numbers. You run into number try hards in normal content from time to time. It is up to you as a person if you let their words impact your experience. When you place too much of the burden on SE or the ToS you end up with this situation where people do not use a tool that could greatly improve their play because they are afraid of getting in trouble, which possibly creates more excuses for assholes to be assholes.

Long and short people need to focus on the why something is said and not focus so much on the how. Information given in a negative matter can still be helpful.

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Sure words have the ability to hurt, but if someone runs into an asshole ACT or not they will be assholes.

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The main issue is giving assholes information to act on. A piece of software that tells these people exactly who in the group they should unload their dysfunctional personality disorder on only emboldens them.

I do kind of want to try out ACT, but I'm not even really sure how talking about it on the forums is received. I used to play WoW and used DPS meters a lot, but WoW actually supported mods. Are mods basically broken for weeks every time there's a patch in this game?

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

I do kind of want to try out ACT, but I'm not even really sure how talking about it on the forums is received. I used to play WoW and used DPS meters a lot, but WoW actually supported mods. Are mods basically broken for weeks every time there's a patch in this game?

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It takes about a day usually. Last patch it was a bit longer, but the guy doing it was on vacation or something so it took about 3 or 4 days iirc.

This page in a nutshell: There are several different groups that use it. Some use it for a positive effect and others use it for a negative one instead. Because the negative ones are misusing it we can't have the shiny because it'll create more problems than it solves.

As several posters have said throughout this thread: Once you're familiar with the jobs and their skills you can easily tell when someone isn't doing something quite right. You don't need a 3rd party app to notice someone being super lazy.

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Originally Posted by GeminiReed

Wasn't it more along the lines of detection would require them to do something questionably legal so not really worth the effort of attempting to prosecute usage?

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Not really sure. I wouldnt imagine so cause other games have anti cheat software which would work plenty well at finding and banning ACT usage. The only grey thing is the nature of ACT itself. Boiled down to its most simplistic concept, ACT essentially is just your Combat log translated into an excel file. You could techincally achieve what ACT does by simply reading through your combat log and recording things. Itd take forever, but it is possible.

Im more of the thought process that not having a parser makes it extremely difficult to min/max damage necessary to clear Savage and high end content, so it's more of a necessary evil short of redesigning fights to be purely a mechanics issue with little focus on damage output.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

The main issue is giving assholes information to act on. A piece of software that tells these people exactly who in the group they should unload their dysfunctional personality disorder on only emboldens them.

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Sometimes I'm all in favor of giving them tools to dig their own graves. A lot of times that's what it takes to teach them not to be assholes.

I'd much rather have a parser built into the game so everyone has access to the information than having only the PC segment of the player base getting access to it via the third party tools. It's going to get used regardless. Better to level the playing field and give everyone equal access. Those who use the information to abuse other players will quickly work themselves into a ban. Is it a little rough on GMs at first while they get an influx of tickets to handle? Sure, but that extra load disappears fast once bulk of the bad apples get weeded out.

There are plenty of other players who would use the information to help others improve if those others desire. I used do that in WoW via Recount/Skada/Details/World of Logs/WarcraftLogs. Someone would want to improve, I could sit with them at a training dummy or run with them through dungeons and LFR then check the parse to figure what they were doing wrong or poorly, then let them know what to change to improve. I'd get thanks weeks, and even years later on a couple of occasions, because taking the time to make some simple suggestions got them on the road to playing better and playing better improved their overall game experience.

I can't do that here because the ToS doesn't allow us to have that information, and I'm not interested in breaking ToS to get it. Watching buffs/debuffs on target and party frames might give some clues about where some of the problems might lie but it's not a full picture.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

The main issue is giving assholes information to act on. A piece of software that tells these people exactly who in the group they should unload their dysfunctional personality disorder on only emboldens them.

I do kind of want to try out ACT, but I'm not even really sure how talking about it on the forums is received. I used to play WoW and used DPS meters a lot, but WoW actually supported mods. Are mods basically broken for weeks every time there's a patch in this game?

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Sure but assholes will be assholes. People need to learn that people do things like that cause they get a kick out of it and enjoy the reacation. As another poster mentioned we focus so much on the negative, and allow it to overshadow the positive. People will be jerks, we cannot protect everyone from them, and to try only impacts those who would legitimately get postive use out of it.