Locking dyable artifact gear behind a extreme trial, good idea?

In my opinion it's an awful idea. To me anything above the difficulty level of an aliance raid encounter is to much for relic related content.
Luckily AF gear this patch does not fit my taste at all so I lose nothing by ignoring it.

If they do stuff like this to the weapon quest as well I might aswell quit until 5.55 - 6.0 because there is literally nothing keeping me interested in playing right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silica-chan

In my opinion it's an awful idea. To me anything above the difficulty level of an aliance raid encounter is to much for relic related content.
Luckily AF gear this patch does not fit my taste at all so I lose nothing by ignoring it.

If they do stuff like this to the weapon quest as well I might aswell quit until 5.55 - 6.0 because there is literally nothing keeping me interested in playing right now.

---

Didn't they require you to beat certain HW primal on EX difficulty in one of the weapon upgrade quests?
I thought it was only changed in SB where they made Eureka for the relics.


And who knows maybe they keep the armour trough EX and weapons trough other means (for upgrading).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Infindox

To respond to some people on here, it's not so much that they made something more challenging. (Which I'm actually glad for) It's the fact that they made it completely pointless. People who need gear are probably already past this or use Eden/crafted/tome gear. There's nothing for Savage level players to come and get.

---

And they didn't even put a Dragon as a possible drop.

Once you've gotten what you want, be it 1 set or 15, there is ZERO incentive to go back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Melichoir

And if you consider yourself a casual, then get good...No, not even that. Get Decent.

---

Dripping in toxicity. There is nothing wrong with being casual and not wanting to be in EX content. This is coming from someone with every job at 80 and who does EX Content.

I don't do savage because I don't want a 2nd job.

But some people feel the same way about EX content, it's hard for them. It's stressful. And it's wrong for you to berate them for that.

Dont worry, next time they'll just spawn vendor so you could just buy it for 1k poetics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Melichoir

snip

---

lol *sigh* …

weird flex but ok. "git gud" is exactly why all these people who don't want it as an EX to get relic content. literally cause people like you they avoid it. You are proving the counterpoint lol.

This current EX is the easiest one they released in recent memory. Easier than Titania, Innocence, etc.

It's a major stepping stone for casual players to dip their toes into Extreme content.

And let's be honest: Extreme trials are not hardcore. I feel like many casual players and RPers stay away because of that misconception. Casuals can VERY easily clear most/all EX fights and (usually) the first two fights of Savage raids with no problems.

Locking glamour behind this should entice people out of their comfort zone, because you CAN do this content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bhatu

This current EX is the easiest one they released in recent memory. Easier than Titania, Innocence, etc.

It's a major stepping stone for casual players to dip their toes into Extreme content.

And let's be honest: Extreme trials are not hardcore. I feel like many casual players and RPers stay away because of that misconception. Casuals can VERY easily clear most/all EX fights and (usually) the first two fights of Savage raids with no problems.

Locking glamour behind this should entice people out of their comfort zone, because you CAN do this content.

---

This. Most singleplayer games of recent years have more difficult boss fights than this, and people routinely play them because nobody says "extreme" or "savage", its just the boss in front of you right now. FFXIV players are often incredibly scared and intimidated by these words, and imagine they would have to invest hours and hours every week to do these.
My relatively casual (we play 2 evenings a week, and not everyone is always there) FG clears all Savage and the occasional Ex in under 4 hours /played per week, and we arent even that good. We all have jobs, kids, and play other games.
Ultimates are a bit different, I admit.

The people who don't understand that it's not about the difficulty are, ironically, proving everyone else right for why we don't want to do the trial.

Inb4 'git gud' or 'grow thicker skin' type of comments. Keep proving my point, please.

Something I will never touch since not about to do ex duties to get it and not about to try them with ping of over 300.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Allegor

The people who don't understand that it's not about the difficulty are, ironically, proving everyone else right for why we don't want to do the trial.

Inb4 'git gud' or 'grow thicker skin' type of comments. Keep proving my point, please.

---

You dont have a point, you just wanna feel smart and superior by playing mini-Nostradamus. Unless you want to bring up this new definition of casual: Doesnt like to, or is unable to, take part in content where they might not succeed on first try. I love how everyone likes to lower the bar of what is "the huuuuuuuuge casual crowd!!!!" to even lower levels :) Its quite amusing. For 2 decades, the definition of casual content has been: Doesnt need a ton of continuos time investment or huge organization effort to make progress in.
Casual friendly means you can take it as you got time, one step at a time, solo or with random groups. Usually, about 30 minutes is the limit, and pretty much all content in FFXIV is casual-friendly like that. I remember years and years of debates, during my more hardcore times, how raids or dungeons that take 2h+ to complete are not for casuals - and I agree. Now that I am one of those who doesnt have several hours continous game time due to a busy schedule, I find that I am still not casual, because I dare not to be intimidated by terms like savage, or extreme. I dare to try and play my class as good as I can (though I still dont use the best pots or HQ buff food only, and I am far from BiS. And most importantly, I dare to actually progress through most content, if at a slower pace.
But the "new" casuals now claim I am, again, hardcore. Thats what I find so funny. The original argument was casual is not bad, its simply less able to invest huge time and the effort that goes into maintaining 30+ people cadres for raiding. Fair enough. turns out the new casual is, indeed, just bad or unwilling to try and fail.
I imagine that in a bit, the true casual, for whom the entire game needs to be designed, is a player who doesnt like to use their keyboard other than to chat, and cannot be bothered to be all hardcore and use all their class skills IN ORDER! How dare you!
In the meantime, I ll be a filthy casual who can still complete most content, in my late 30s, with a busy job and social life. How dare I!

Why people are always focused on their belief it is because of the "difficulty"? It is not the difficulty as an "absolute" the problem, there are side matters.

What if you want to sleep at night and the only way to do Ex is to play at evening?
What if to "come in voice chat" is not possible?
What if you see some latency that makes it will end as a PL?

And the PF... waiting two hours to give up after an half because someone ragequit and go for a PF again... to disband after a new half of waiting.

If it was only that.

The Ex itslef is odd. There's no NM you can train on and...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deceptus

And they didn't even put a Dragon as a possible drop.

Once you've gotten what you want, be it 1 set or 15, there is ZERO incentive to go back.

---

More I think about what they say about the relic, more and more I expect some kind of BA-like (or Ex-like) farm in a Eureka-like world. Some talk about "difficulty"... I expect the worst grinding they ever done. Grinding fate and trashes, ok but grinding mandatory Ex...

Personally I think it's...okay.
I like the idea that you'll have to actually work hard for it in a shorter amount of time than to do hours and hours of unengaging, monotonous grinding you can do with your eyes closed. Extreme trials aren't very difficult anymore. A "casual" like me, someone who hasn't touched savage one bit, could clear them and I'm sure others can to. I've seen misconceptions that they're too difficult when the devs have expressed countless times that they've been lowering the difficulty of these fights so more people could participate in them.

I think people should try it out first before they start shying away. This imaginary divide over casual and hardcore players/content is becoming ridiculous.

Pretty sure this is the fourth time I've said this, but to all to people who keep saying this is easy and to just get gud, it doesn't matter how easy it is if your teammates aren't very good.

You can practice all you like, watch 3 different guides over the course of a week, be in a great mood, but be bogged down by your party members. In PF you're gambling with who you get in that PF, you could get someone like you who's practiced and research plus they're in a great mood, but what happens if you get someone who's just looking for a carry? Someone who's barking orders and refuses to discus strategies with the fellow party members? Someone who leaves after 2 wipes?

In the PF it is NOT about YOU getting gud, it is about the whole party cooperating in order to take down the boss, everyone must do their part if they are to take down the boss.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fhaerron

Didn't they require you to beat certain HW primal on EX difficulty in one of the weapon upgrade quests?
I thought it was only changed in SB where they made Eureka for the relics.

---

No they didn't require extrme mode for the relic weapon, just hard modes (for the weapons). The AF Gear was released as the current tomestone gear back then which either required savage kills, or the allaince raid tokens to upgrade it. (which is fine for me that raiders get the rewards earlier than the non raiders.

How did this turn into a "git gud" argument? The issue is that relics and AF armor have always been available at a casual level with a significant time investment attached. Even in heavensward, the items to upgrade the af armor was made available through 24 mans. Putting them in an EX is a major departure from that.

If they put the best weapons in armor in the gold saucer, you'd think it was weird right? Because it's contrary to he precedent they've set since ARR

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niyuka

something something

---

See, you already got the wrong idea [and were unnecessarily snarky]. I literally said it's not about difficulty - it's not about being unwilling to put effort in learning the fight, it's being unwilling to deal with people who are unwilling to be patient, cooperate, expect to be carried, or whatever other reason that makes them act like a jerk. It's not a universal occurrence to get those kind of people, true, but some would just rather avoid such stress altogether.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eldevern

What if you want to sleep at night and the only way to do Ex is to play at evening?

---

You can try to find to do them elsewhere that fits your time and schedule. It's not impossible right now since it's pretty new and relevant.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eldevern

What if to "come in voice chat" is not possible?

---

Then find a group that doesn't require voice chat. So far with me, I didn't need voice chat to clear Ex trials, but I'd assume it's helpful for callouts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eldevern

What if you see some latency that makes it will end as a PL?

---

If you have latency issues and if you're in an NA server living in europe or the like then that is more of a you problem, otherwise this is pretty valid if you're close to the server location.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eldevern

And the PF... waiting two hours to give up after an half because someone ragequit and go for a PF again... to disband after a new half of waiting.

---

Sure, this could be true, it could be not. Though, I doubt the wait will be that long, especially when the new Ex fight is new and somewhat relevant.

To be honest little excuses like these is why people get so discouraged to do it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by E4EO

Pretty sure this is the fourth time I've said this, but to all to people who keep saying this is easy and to just get gud, it doesn't matter how easy it is if your teammates aren't very good.

You can practice all you like, watch 3 different guides over the course of a week, be in a great mood, but be bogged down by your party members. In PF you're gambling with who you get in that PF, you could get someone like you who's practiced and research plus they're in a great mood, but what happens if you get someone who's just looking for a carry? Someone who's barking orders and refuses to discus strategies with the fellow party members? Someone who leaves after 2 wipes?

In the PF it is NOT about YOU getting gud, it is about the whole party cooperating in order to take down the boss, everyone must do their part if they are to take down the boss.

---

So keep rolling the dice like everyone else does stop acting like everything must be perfect and laid out for you in order to even attempt. You're starting to act like those people who demand perfection. Content has been out for three days not three months calm yourself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deceptus

And they didn't even put a Dragon as a possible drop.

Once you've gotten what you want, be it 1 set or 15, there is ZERO incentive to go back.

---

Once you got Dragon from...lessay Titania, why go back to it? There's zero incentive. Dunno why youre making a distinction between armor and dragons. Both are drops. Hell, atleast the armor has a longer lifespan due to getting multiple sets and the potential itll add up into a second armor set down the line.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deceptus

Dripping in toxicity. There is nothing wrong with being casual and not wanting to be in EX content. This is coming from someone with every job at 80 and who does EX Content.

I don't do savage because I don't want a 2nd job.

But some people feel the same way about EX content, it's hard for them. It's stressful. And it's wrong for you to berate them for that.

---

I do love how when someone tells other players to improve to reap the rewards of content are "Toxic". It's not even quaint anymore. It's just old and tired now. Hell, the great irony is that if I ddint think people could improve to do it, I wouldn't bother telling people to improve. I firmly believe anyone can do this content. Im not sitting here making excuses and believing that it is 'to hard' or stressful for some players. If anything, saying that it is to much, to stressful, sounds like you think some or most casual players just cant cut it. You have less faith in the player base than me.

Lets be honest here. Other than the huge time sink that Eureka was, It required very little input realistically. In both Anemos and Pagos, You just had to follow the train, poke the boss and do a few heals and not get killed and voila, you get Artifact gear. Hell you could afk for most of it and still be relatively successful. This mentality that you should get Artifact gear (or anything) with little to no skill or effort is a problem for the player base. Cause it teaches casual players that skill isnt necessary in this game, forces the skill floor down, and creates a divide between the higher and lower skilled players. And when the higher skilled players get "Cool weapons and armors and Mounts and boss fights" you hear people say how 'unfair' it is.

You dont want to improve yourself to a relatively decent level of play where all you need to do is observe and learn, then you shouldnt have access to some of the more powerful and cool looking equipment in the game. You should get out of the game what you put into it.

Btw, This idea that you need to make it a second job to do Savage or EX is BS and seriously needs to stop. It's nothing but excuse making. Im by no means a top tier player, but in 2 hours of play and one youtube video I cleared the fight with people dying, not using LB for dps, and lots of mistakes. People in my FC who dont even touch savage have cleared the fight with just a small bit of time and effort. This isnt a "second job" situation. It really is a situation of being up to par skill wise and being willing to learn.

If you cant do the fight cause you keep dying to mechanics or cant keep the tanks alive or whatever and youre geared 470+, dont give me some half butt excuse about difficulty. It's purely a 'you' problem and you just need to own the simple fact that if you were better this wouldnt be an issue. And before the cute "Well I know it but everyone else sucks" excuse that weirdly gets trotted out as a response, you do realize that saying people dont need to improve feeds into that problem of it 'being everyone else'.

Stop making excuses, stop covering for other players so they dont have to improve, and just do the content. Learn, Practice, Improve, Accomplish. Cause I tell you what you. It's not the gear in the end that you miss out on if you dont do it. It's the accomplishment of saying "yeah, I did this." and seeing the fruits of your labor pay off. Its a good feeling. If you want something, be prepared to work for it. And dont make excuses when you dont get it but others do. This game isnt Dark Souls kind of difficult. It's doesnt require 30-40 hours to learn a fight or become better. Anyone can clear this fight with a bit of practice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eldevern

Why people are always focused on their belief it is because of the "difficulty"? It is not the difficulty as an "absolute" the problem, there are side matters.

What if you want to sleep at night and the only way to do Ex is to play at evening?
What if to "come in voice chat" is not possible?
What if you see some latency that makes it will end as a PL?

And the PF... waiting two hours to give up after an half because someone ragequit and go for a PF again... to disband after a new half of waiting.

If it was only that.

The Ex itslef is odd. There's no NM you can train on and...


More I think about what they say about the relic, more and more I expect some kind of BA-like (or Ex-like) farm in a Eureka-like world. Some talk about "difficulty"... I expect the worst grinding they ever done. Grinding fate and trashes, ok but grinding mandatory Ex...

---

There are plenty of PFs up all day and night, so that's moot.
Most parties do not require voice chat, especially for EX fights.
If you have latency issues that severe you shouldn't be doing party content period.
If you don't have friends to run content with you'll just have to get used to PF life. People come people go, as is their right.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eldevern

Why people are always focused on their belief it is because of the "difficulty"? It is not the difficulty as an "absolute" the problem, there are side matters.

---

Of course there are nuances like schedule conflicts. But that is still a you issue. Are we saying that you are working and sleeping only 7 days a week and you have no down time? Or are we talking about you get home from work and decide you dont want to play FFXIV but catch up on a show or movie. How you spend your free time is up to you, and why you do it is also your call. But that is on you, not the content in the game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eldevern

What if you want to sleep at night and the only way to do Ex is to play at evening?

---

There are people playing this game at all hours. Also, are you saying youre going from work to bed every day 7/12?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eldevern

What if to "come in voice chat" is not possible?

---

I did it without VC. Most PFs I see dont require it, and frankly it doesnt require VC to do. Dont get me wrong, VC is great at times. But it's not a necessity. The major coordination issues are about determining positions or preset things. If you memorize the mechanics, you dont need call outs typically.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eldevern

What if you see some latency that makes it will end as a PL?

---

Again, this is a you problem. Super unfortunate, but it's still a you issue. If you dont get to see your latest Netflix show cause your internet is bad, is that netflixes problem or yours? Hell bad latency stops you from doing most content, not just ex or savage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eldevern

And the PF... waiting two hours to give up after an half because someone ragequit and go for a PF again... to disband after a new half of waiting.

---

I go into PF, and know how crappy it can be. Yeah this sucks, but its more an exception. Ive never had to wait 2+ hours on current content in PF and I see the rage quit typically after people on hte whole have cleared it. Honestly, best time to learn a fight is to do it when it comes out. Avoid the "Know the Mechanics or insta kick" groups cause those are traps. Btw, most people for whatever reason are scared to make their own PF. So if you dont see a PF for a learning party or prog, dont be afraid to make one. There's lots of players out there who are willing to join one, but are afraid of making one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eldevern

The Ex itslef is odd. There's no NM you can train on and...

---

I havent checked if theres a normal version of this fight honestly. If there's not, then that should be corrected. But the EX fight itself is just the normal with some extra mechanics.

They should add a alternative for people who have issue with stress. Like grind poetic or better daily roullette(LVL,MSQ,TRIAL,RAID TRIAL,ALLIANCE) you get a item. this item will require a certain amount (like EX) to have a piece of your choices. Everyone wins.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Melichoir

There are people playing this game at all hours. Also, are you saying youre going from work to bed every day 7/12?

---

There are, yes, but most serious raiding happens at a time when the 9-5 folks are done working for the day.

People like myself, for instance, aren't going to have much luck when 99% of groups raid from 6-7PM to 11-12PM when we have jobs that require us to wake up at 2 AM.

I'm a bit torn myself. :X

I've never actually completed an EX trial while it's still relevant, and so there's definitely some apprehension there about finally giving one a shot. My play time is generally spotty at best, and I have a lot of stress that goes on in my day to day (work long hours, family/small child, etc), and so I normally just shy away from anything that's going to compound that. I know how uppity some people can be when just doing basic content and I'm not sure how worth all of that nonsense will be just so I can look cute in my AF. :P

With that said, dyeable AF probably WILL be enough of an incentive to finally get my arse to give them a go. So on that front maybe SE's ploy has worked. It will finally get me to try something I've avoided all of these years. May end up crying myself to sleep nightly, but we'll see. Maybe I'll luck out and get a chill group. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarkovitch

They should add a alternative for people who have issue with stress. Like grind poetic or better daily roullette(LVL,MSQ,TRIAL,RAID TRIAL,ALLIANCE) you get a item. this item will require a certain amount (like EX) to have a piece of your choices. Everyone wins.

---

Pretty much my thought as well. I have no real issue with the EX being the quick and dirty way to get the AF gear but they should at least allow everyone else to earn it in some other way. Maybe add a way to earn it while doing the next step of the Relic Weapon process.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malmstrom

There are, yes, but most serious raiding happens at a time when the 9-5 folks are done working for the day.

People like myself, for instance, aren't going to have much luck when 99% of groups raid from 6-7PM to 11-12PM when we have jobs that require us to wake up at 2 AM.

---

Not everyone works a 9-5 job either so there's going to be people finding groups at different times. Sure it's not very common but again, it's not impossible. I work a 6-3 job, waking up as early as 4 AM, and I still found some time to clear some Ex trials. There's also your days off to attempt with groups.
Besides with what's been happening lately, a bunch of you might be staying at home. You have plenty of time to try it out.

While I found the ex-trial fairly easy and already have my Sam relic armor (and working on my pld), I do agree that relic gear is supposed to be a long, but easier grind for those who don't want to do the harder content. That was the point of relics when they were first introduced- an alternative to savage mode that allowed the player to eventually get some of the best gear, but it took a lot of time. They started to get away from that in SB a little. Eureka was definitely a grind, but could also be tough for solo players to manage due to its nature.

I enjoyed the fight and as a non-savage player, am always grateful for more mid-core content. But I'm not sure it has its place is relics.

I dislike the uninspired reuse of a content type we've seen many times before. This type of content already has enough rewards elsewhere in the game, it didn't need relic armors at all. Sure Eureka wasn't perfect, but at least Eureka was break from the endless instanced bossfights in the rest of the game and it was much more inclusive than struggling through raid finder.

And I don't understand the arguments that claim it's a good idea to push players into EX content or get them out of their comfort zone. I've never seen any MMO where players that weren't already interested in the more challenging content "rise to the challenge" when content tries to force them. A game isn't always a project for self improvement for me, and I think it isn't for many/most people, it can just be a game where I want to have fun and spend some of my spare time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malmstrom

There are, yes, but most serious raiding happens at a time when the 9-5 folks are done working for the day.

People like myself, for instance, aren't going to have much luck when 99% of groups raid from 6-7PM to 11-12PM when we have jobs that require us to wake up at 2 AM.

---

How you manage your time and what obligations you have is not SE's problem. This doesnt even consider the ability to raid with other continents, or adjusting your sleep/wake schedule to account for it. Ive raided and have friends in both teh EU and Australia, as an example. I know of statics who do cross continental raiding schedules. So dont tell me there is no hope for you. If you want to do the content, youll find a way to do it. Like anything you want to do, youll find the time to do it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aiqa

I dislike the uninspired reuse of a content type we've seen many times before. This type of content already has enough rewards elsewhere in the game, it didn't need relic armors at all. Sure Eureka wasn't perfect, but at least Eureka was break from the endless instanced bossfights in the rest of the game and it was much more inclusive than struggling through raid finder.

---

Eureka's biggest problem was the model it used, and how to get around the crap model it fostered a system of afk farming. 70 some odd people run to a spot to spawn an NM, and 55 of them stand around doing nothing while 15 guys are busy putting in the effort. Boss spawns, turns into a clown show, and then all the people who afked around until boss spawns gets credit and follows the train on. It didnt require much actual effort. Even the NMs werent that difficult. And please no one be cute. If you were active in Eureka, you well know the mobs of people who stood around the train alt tabbed doing what ever and just waiting for the NM to spawn.

This time around, it's a lot less time wasting and more "If you want it, go get it." It's strictly more about your personal skill and involvement.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aiqa

And I don't understand the arguments that claim it's a good idea to push players into EX content or get them out of their comfort zone. I've never seen any MMO where players that weren't already interested in the more challenging content "rise to the challenge" when content tries to force them. A game isn't always a project for self improvement for me, and I think it isn't for many/most people, it can just be a game where I want to have fun and spend some of my spare time.

---

Answer me this: Do you feel that you should be entitled to some of the best and coolest looking gear or mounts in the game simply for logging in? You dont want to engage in challenging content - ok. That is perfectly fine. But what makes you think anyone should be able to reap the rewards of that content when they choose to not engage with it? You just want to chill and not be challenged , by the standards provided on what is and isnt hardcore content, standard roulettes are right there for you. Enjoy what items and rewards those yield. No one will fault you.

It becomes a problem when players see something they do want, but dont want to put in time or effort to get those rewards. They demand the content be made more accessible (aka being made easier). And the problem with a skill floor htat keeps getting pushed down? People start labeling content that is mid tier at best as "Hardcore" because theyve dropped their ability and standards that much that they cant tell its not that bad. I wasnt joking when I said if you can clear E8, you can clear this new extreme. It seems complex at a glance, but once you break it down and put a touch of thought into it, it's a lot simpler than you think and just requires practice once you know the theory.

TLDR: You want to just kill time and relax on ffxiv. I wont fault you for that. Somedays I feel like that. But dont start saying content should be dumbed down so you can have the same rewards as people who put time and some moderate effort into the game. And frankly, the better you get, the less effort you would expend to get the same rewards.

the fight really isn't that hard i don't even think there's a enrage and if there is i have never seen it even with multiple deaths from 80% of the party and a cursed double dancer run
i still think people should give it a go despite your fight anxiety or time schedule i cleared the fight at 3am teaching 7 other Japanese people Fortis mechanic with google translate
but they should also not lock job gear behind a EX trial in the future
so its a Mix bag for me.

Ex trials aren't that difficult. More importantly, if you don't want to or can't go in for whatever reasons, you can always head in later in the expansion or next expansion when it has echo and can be unsynched. People wait like this all the time for farming mounts or glam (even those that clear the ex trials day 1). This is really no different.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alestorm

Honestly as much as I want my AF gear dyable, I think I'll wait until we out gear the fight a bit more.

---

Same here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duskane

the fight really isn't that hard i don't even think there's a enrage and if there is i have never seen it even with multiple deaths from 80% of the party and a cursed double dancer run

---

There is an enrage, saw one yesterday on my clear run. But the timer is quite lenient while his HP seems to be fairly low, so the chance of actually witnessing it isn't that high unless party fails mechanics too much. The whole fight is more about being sure to do everything right than about dps. And speaking about this... I can get why some people don't want to bother with PF. Mechanics mostly aren't complicated, there're just a lot of them, and the whole party should have a good coordination (especially on last phase), which is always a gamble in PF - you never know if your current line-up will achieve harmony right away or if you will spend 3 hours on it with some people quitting because they can't stand all the wipes anymore.

I enjoyed the EX fight and have no problems doing it myself, but I do think there should be an alternate method. I think it would be nice for tradable materials to also drop from the fight - that way people who don't want to do the EX can buy them to craft the gear and the people who don't mind doing the EX can get some gil.

In EU servers, the real rush is 18h-23h. The Ex time is most of time 21-Midnight. If you wish to do Ex another time in the day, you will NEVER fill the PF quick enough. I've tried for easier contents, the PF has never filled quick enough not not be forced to give up because of... you know real life matters (that are far more important than the game).

And even if the PF fill... we start, first wipe and... someone leaving because of... real life matters (lunch time! dinner time! My mother is back! My wife/husband is back! and so on).

Do you consider it worth to wait one or two hours to train... an half? I don't. Do you even realize you all talk about three hours of training run? I NEVER have three hours of training availabity if you add the PF waiting time, especially daytime. I can do one hour, one hour and a half, but not more (I'm already short in time when I'm waiting for the Alliance if it takes a bit of time).

Yeah sure the fight itself might not be that hard, but i strongly disagree with the idea of locking dyeable gear behind extreme trials/raids.

The rewards for extreme trials/raids should be somehow in line with what the players who do them specifically aspire to.

Getting better glamour is something that most of the player base aspires to, while only a minority of it is willing to do hardcore content. Hence, locking dyeable gear behind that content is in my opinion a plain bad design choice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Darsien

There are tons of glamour options in the game that people pour hours upon hours into to get. This is no different. Put in the work and effort, or go without.

Sorry if that comes off as harsh, but I find it ridiculous that, when faced with the options of "get better at the game" or "go without," so many are so quick to choose the latter when those same people have put in tons of time and energy into things that are, frankly, much, much more difficult to obtain.

---

I feel like some kind of contradiction in what you wrote. Could you explicit what you call "difficulty"?

Spending time (but with the possibility to interrupt anytime and as long as needed) and Ex training (when people expect you don't ask random breaks) are not the same kind of difficulty at all. The first case, there are not some kind of availability contrainst and it's not even a difficulty, just... grind when available/motivated (and doable as PU).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Darsien

There are tons of glamour options in the game that people pour hours upon hours into to get. This is no different. Put in the work and effort, or go without.

Sorry if that comes off as harsh, but I find it ridiculous that, when faced with the options of "get better at the game" or "go without," so many are so quick to choose the latter when those same people have put in tons of time and energy into things that are, frankly, much, much more difficult to obtain.

---

people are willing to git gud to beat content they want to do not for content they are forced to do.



Doing something you like and/or with friends =/= something you don't like with strangers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kraniel

Yeah sure the fight itself might not be that hard, but i strongly disagree with the idea of locking dyeable gear behind extreme trials/raids.

The rewards for extreme trials/raids should be somehow in line with what the players who do them specifically aspire to.

Getting better glamour is something that most of the player base aspires to, while only a minority of it is willing to do hardcore content. Hence, locking dyeable gear behind that content is in my opinion a plain bad design choice.

---

Dyeable gear has been locked behind savage for years, so I'm not sure what your point is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mavrias

Dyeable gear has been locked behind savage for years, so I'm not sure what your point is.

---

Yes but that was raid glamor not your basic job gear, this is an unfortunate first.