Savage is way to hard nerf it please!

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Originally Posted by Kaliesto

Training with the different mechanics, normal mode can't provide that.

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PF description for a savage fight: "learning from the beginning."

if you want to experience the savage fight's mechanics, do the savage fight.

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Originally Posted by Mavrias

PF description for a savage fight: "learning from the beginning."

if you want to experience the savage fight's mechanics, do the savage fight.

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Not only that but if you're done the normal variation you've seen a lesser version of around 30% of what the Savage fight might end up being like, which isn't anything to sniff at. But otherwise yeah, the only way to train for Savage is to do Savage. You can play around with the Extremes to get yourself better accustomed to a somewhat high level of content than what the casual side of this game requires - but there's going to be no more powerful tool than just slamming your face into the Savage wall and learn the hard way like everyone else.

Savage is hard because theres 7 other people, is you can train anything solo, then even ultimate will become easy

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

For anybody who thinks current Savage is too hard...you poor poor summer children. You know not of the horrors of Gordias. That tier almost destroyed the raiding community.

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I still see Living Liquid in my nightmares sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Cirque-it

If a raid is impossible to clear using its party finder mechanic, its too hard for an MMO in my opinion.

Eden Savage 5 is WAY to hard for an MMO.

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I feel like you're the kind of person who thinks spending thirty minutes in expert roulette is normal.

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Originally Posted by Cirque-it

If a raid is impossible to clear using its party finder mechanic, its too hard for an MMO in my opinion.

Eden Savage 5 is WAY to hard for an MMO.

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Yes because content literally called savage is meant to be easy and for everyone.
Sorry, but some content ISN'T meant for everyone, savage is meant for players who actively want a challenge and find the difficulty to be fun and engaging. Besides, e5s is one of the easier ones, and im saying that as our FC static's off tank on this fight for christs sake, ot is probably the hardest job next to healer in the fight, and even i think it's not that hard once you learn the mechanics.

Theres still regular edens you know, it'd be stupid if they made savage also easy, also it's not fair to the players who want a challenge. SE keeps making the game easier and easier, people who actually want a fun challenge to do with their fc mates deserve to have some savages and ex's; theres tons of easy, yet still engaging content in the game for casuals to enjoy as is.

And why 'for an mmo'? Is it because you need actual teamwork? In that case why not join an fc, or get on discord for some callouts/coordination? Theres tools out there to make these raids more manageable, even with randos.
If you ask me, i think you're just being lazy/stubborn. We have people in our static who are totally new to raiding, die a lot, yet they STILL keep trying. Hell, the other tank didn't know what a tank swap was and i had to explain it during ruby ex, but the thing is they didn't give up and kept trying to improve, so i have mad respect for them. Players who maybe start out a little bad, but dont give up? You have my total support! Players who bitch and moan about wanting to be carried and say content is too hard though... no respect from me lmao.

Please stop pushing your selfish all about me attitudes into content. Both casuals AND hardcores deserve content, and because of that some content just isn't gunna be fun for some people, thats how life is and learn to deal with it.

I think its fine the way it is. Savage content needs to stay exactly that. Savage.

Nah git gud

Please don't demean and insults others, this doesn't help anyone.

It does get nerfed every time new savage content comes out and a mega nerf every level cap increase.

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Originally Posted by Cirque-it

Got me haha. Thats how this started for me anyway. It is also somewhat to able to experience al the cutscense in a game without having to complete the savage mode. I felt like higher Ilvl on your gear should be enough reward for HC players

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To be fair though, all the Savage players are getting is early access. Then you get Echo, better ilv and it gets progressively easier and easier. None of the rewards or cut-scenes are removed.

High ilv gear is a surprisingly minor reward for endgame players. All it really does is give you a stepping stone to E8, then let you kill the same Savage bosses you already beat a little faster. The majority of other content is synched and Normal/EX can be steamrolled with basic Eden or crafted. Since parses and meters are a big no, you don't even get to show off big numbers, very few people will notice or care.

The idea of a "Duty-Practice" mode is a good one but hard to implement. If the mechanics were forgiving and just dealt 50%, most groups would ignore them and heal through. Perhaps a system where you failed the clear if you got hit by a set number of avoidable mechanics. The practice mode could also give explanations, tips or some strats as you go (since we all just watch guides anyway and modern encounters are designed with the assumption that the regular player has guides available), but in that case should only be released a few weeks in, so the world first and hardcore groups have the fun of figuring it out. We could additionally get a Dungeon Journal like WoW got, that lists each boss along with every mechanic and what it does and a short run-down for each role.

I feel like having more fights with mechanics that are not immediately lethal but instead apply Damage Down debuffs to make beating the enrage tougher/impossible would be more intuitive then having vague instakill puzzles that are almost guaranteed to cause a wipe the first few times around.

It honestly feels a bit like artificial difficulty to have to trial and error your way through a lot of mechanics step by step before you finally pass them; especially if they happen towards the very end of an encounter.

As previously mentioned, WoW has its dungeon journal to explain what each mechanic does in advance so you can actually have a vague gameplan before you go into a fight as opposed to having to reach a new mechanic and immediately wipe due to having no clue as to what it does until you've had a chance to check all of the debuff tooltips and perhaps view a video feedback to potentially gauge why/how everyone exploded.

The devs seem to thrive on this type of encounter design, though, considering the "surprise" they included in both UwU and TEA that forced people to basically rethink the entire fight and a certain mechanic respectively.

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Originally Posted by Cirque-it

Got me haha. Thats how this started for me anyway. It is also somewhat to able to experience al the cutscense in a game without having to complete the savage mode. I felt like higher Ilvl on your gear should be enough reward for HC players

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You're not locked out of the glamour rewards, you will just get them a little later if you're not up for clearing it right away. And I haven't noticed any difference in the Eden normal and Eden savage cutscenes, so glamour is really all that is left. Lots of people don't clear ex trials when they come out and farm mounts later.
Nerfing savage so people who don't care about savage itself and just do it for glamour is not the way to go as they can easily get it at a later date. Echo/ higher ilvl and you steamroll the bosses and skip the most annoying mechanics.

Any sort of practice mode that is a more forgiving version of the actual fight will lead to people learning and playing it differently. If a one shot is nerfed to only bringing you to half HP, I guarantee you that a lot of practice parties will just heal through and not remind themselves that in the actual fight, that player would've died. Path of least resistance and all that.
The best way to practice a fight is to actually play the fight. There are countless practice parties, some blind, some want guide exp, some practice very specific mechanics. You can work your way up if you absolutely want that glamour now.

What I'm all for is a smoother increase in difficulty. Ruby ex is so laughably easy that you can kill it with numerous deaths. The healing requirement is low enough that you saw solo heal parties pop up pretty quickly. You don't need all 8 players for the fight, even meteors can be played with as little as 6 if everyone runs out asap after Dalamud has fallen and during the entire first phase, there is not a single mechanic that requires everyone alive. You survive stack marks with three people, two if you have mitigation up.
It doesn't really prepare you for savage and that's a shame.

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Originally Posted by Cirque-it

If a raid is impossible to clear using its party finder mechanic, its too hard for an MMO in my opinion.

Eden Savage 5 is WAY to hard for an MMO.

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Eden Savage 5 is NOT WoW LFR.

It's whatever comes AFTER WoW Heroic raid tier. I forget what that was called...

(Eden Normal 5 is equiv to WoW Heroic - we see it as super easy, but it's got more mechanics than a WoW Heroic raid).

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I feel like having more fights with mechanics that are not immediately lethal but instead apply Damage Down debuffs to make beating the enrage tougher/impossible would be more intuitive then having vague instakill puzzles that are almost guaranteed to cause a wipe the first few times around.

It honestly feels a bit like artificial difficulty to have to trial and error your way through a lot of mechanics step by step before you finally pass them; especially if they happen towards the very end of an encounter.

As previously mentioned, WoW has its dungeon journal to explain what each mechanic does in advance so you can actually have a vague gameplan before you go into a fight as opposed to having to reach a new mechanic and immediately wipe due to having no clue as to what it does until you've had a chance to check all of the debuff tooltips and perhaps view a video feedback to potentially gauge why/how everyone exploded.

The devs seem to thrive on this type of encounter design, though, considering the "surprise" they included in both UwU and TEA that forced people to basically rethink the entire fight and a certain mechanic respectively.

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Agree with all this! <3

Join a static like literally everyone else who is serious about progressing in this game. Not difficult.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Join a static like literally everyone else who is serious about progressing in this game. Not difficult.

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I don't agree that savage is way too hard, but this sentiment, right here, is not helpful and not informed. Joining a static is not like flipping a light switch. It's incredibly hard to find a static where you will see progress pull to pull, you can tolerate (never mind like) every member, and has a schedule that works for you. You can find one of these items easily, but all three? It's not the easiest thing in the world.

Thus why "join a static" is not helpful or informed advice.

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Originally Posted by Eli85

I don't agree that savage is way too hard, but this sentiment, right here, is not helpful and not informed. Joining a static is not like flipping a light switch. It's incredibly hard to find a static where you will see progress pull to pull, you can tolerate (never mind like) every member, and has a schedule that works for you. You can find one of these items easily, but all three? It's not the easiest thing in the world.

Thus why "join a static" is not helpful or informed advice.

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If you can manage it, it is good advice. However, a lot of people like myself aren't interested in adhering to a schedule. I used to raid a lot in WoW during WotLK and Cata. It was fun, and I enjoyed some of the social aspect, but my raiding days have long since passed me by. If it is something I can't progress on my own terms then I simply don't take part. Extreme primals and the like are fine for me though. But even those I don't do like I once did. I usually manage to do one or 2 during an expansion cycle since HW. I have yet to see one that makes me want to do it in Shadowbringers, but hopefully that time will come.

Savage only requires 2 things of you - Know your class mechanics, and memorize the fight choreography. Thats it. Admittedly that is an over simplification in some regards, but the reality is that anyone can clear all the savage tiers, and all it takes is time and practice and flexibility in your thinking. What kills most people is they either panic out the gate, or they make a mistake for some reason and then panic, and that just snowballs.

E5S isnt a difficult fight. What people dont like isnt how much there is to learn, its more about the simple fact that mistakes are very punishing. You screw up the 14 rods thing (drawing a blank on name atm), thats gonna typically be a wipe. Is the mechanic itself all that hard though? No. Make sure youve gotten an orb. If youre not MT, find which side has adds, go opposite side, then find your stick and stand there. Thats it. Nothing absurdly complicated. What Ive seen people do? Panic, get greedy, not have an orb, or be out of position and miss their stick. All these things can be easily compensated for and fixed. It's not a brain buster to do, it just requires you to do it. Dont be greedy. Watch your position, stay in control and mechanic is done. Chain lightning is the same. Triangle strat? Make sure theres 3 of you, you know the order to pass it to, and make sure youre farther away from the guy youre not supposed to pass it to. Dont run up and hug a dude, Just get modestly close so you can catch/pass the CL without getting clipped. Stay in control and dont panic and youre done pretty quickly.

Cliche and mean as "Git Gud" can be, this literally is a case of get good. Memorize the fight, learn your class so you can do optimal dps adn fulfill your roll, get clears. That simple. And before someone says "Well we have to do enough DPS to down the boss" or something there of, if you havent even seen enrage cause you die to mechanics, then the "We need more DPS" should not even be on your radar. When you can get to enrages fairly frequently with few or no deaths, then you can start saying "It's a DPS issue". But dont make excuses for doing mechanics poorly and dying. Cause the bar right now to get the DPS to clear something like e5s is incredibly low so long as youve been getting Allegory gear.

Savage isn't hard really. Just watch video guides, note strat differences, know how to perform your role well, and avoid as much damage as possible and you should be set.

Both this Tier and the previous tier have been a joke. They are so simple. The problem with savage is that it is too easy now, not too hard.

Sniff Sniff...smells like a troll...

Obvious troll is obvious

https://media1.tenor.com/images/b700...temid=11281448

After working on this content for months and currently being on E8S (stuck on Icelite dragonsong) this is my conclussion on the matter

E5S = WAY too hard for a first boss end-tier savage encounter... there are people in there that are new to FF14, new to raiding, new to MMO's in general... They just hit lvl 80 want to get into Savage raids, end up in a party finder E5S encounter and have a horrific experience.... E5S needs to be Nerfed like crazy!!

E6S = Still a touch too hard for a second boss encounter, but pretty decently tuned in general. I think E6S should be as hard as E5S is now

E7S = Perfect. Its the pre-end boss to an end-tier, its beautifully designed, and is exactly what it should be

E8S = I dont really know yet because we're still working on the very last phase (Icelite song and Wyrms lament 2) I dont see how ANYONE can Party Finder this boss with a group, UNLESS every member of the group already has this boss on farm in their own respective static raid groups.... BUT... this being the very last boss of the raid tier, I guess its okay to force people into the social aspect of the game. (Either join a static, or dont clear this boss)
I just still think its a little bit hypocritical that a game whos ToS states you cant use 3rd party software has a boss thats impossible to clear without at least using a third party communications software (discord).....

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Originally Posted by Cirque-it

After working on this content for months and currently being on E8S (stuck on Icelite dragonsong) this is my conclussion on the matter

E5S = WAY too hard for a first boss end-tier savage encounter... there are people in there that are new to FF14, new to raiding, new to MMO's in general... They just hit lvl 80 want to get into Savage raids, end up in a party finder E5S encounter and have a horrific experience.... E5S needs to be Nerfed like crazy!!

E6S = Still a touch too hard for a second boss encounter, but pretty decently tuned in general. I think E6S should be as hard as E5S is now

E7S = Perfect. Its the pre-end boss to an end-tier, its beautifully designed, and is exactly what it should be

E8S = I dont really know yet because we're still working on the very last phase (Icelite song and Wyrms lament 2) I dont see how ANYONE can Party Finder this boss with a group, UNLESS every member of the group already has this boss on farm in their own respective static raid groups.... BUT... this being the very last boss of the raid tier, I guess its okay to force people into the social aspect of the game. (Either join a static, or dont clear this boss)
I just still think its a little bit hypocritical that a game whos ToS states you cant use 3rd party software has a boss thats impossible to clear without at least using a third party communications software (discord).....

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Oh they are new to MMO and just hit lvl 80 ? THEY ARE NOT READY FOR SAVAGE !

Stop with the troll now

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Originally Posted by Cirque-it

I just still think its a little bit hypocritical that a game whos ToS states you cant use 3rd party software has a boss thats impossible to clear without at least using a third party communications software (discord).....

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But I saw people cleared it in PF all the time though, without using discord that is.

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Originally Posted by Cirque-it

After working on this content for months and currently being on E8S (stuck on Icelite dragonsong) this is my conclussion on the matter

E5S = WAY too hard for a first boss end-tier savage encounter... there are people in there that are new to FF14, new to raiding, new to MMO's in general... They just hit lvl 80 want to get into Savage raids, end up in a party finder E5S encounter and have a horrific experience.... E5S needs to be Nerfed like crazy!!

E6S = Still a touch too hard for a second boss encounter, but pretty decently tuned in general. I think E6S should be as hard as E5S is now

E7S = Perfect. Its the pre-end boss to an end-tier, its beautifully designed, and is exactly what it should be

E8S = I dont really know yet because we're still working on the very last phase (Icelite song and Wyrms lament 2) I dont see how ANYONE can Party Finder this boss with a group, UNLESS every member of the group already has this boss on farm in their own respective static raid groups.... BUT... this being the very last boss of the raid tier, I guess its okay to force people into the social aspect of the game. (Either join a static, or dont clear this boss)
I just still think its a little bit hypocritical that a game whos ToS states you cant use 3rd party software has a boss thats impossible to clear without at least using a third party communications software (discord).....

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If you're new to MMOs, nevermind raiding. What business do you have going into Savage and expecting an easy clear? This is content designed for more veteran players; providing them a challenge that is near entirely absent in other content. If you want something more forgiving, both Ruby Weapon and Memoria fill that void.

Conversely, I think E7S is one of the worst fights in the entire game for the precise reason you think it's great. The third boss in a tier shouldn't be the easiest yet here you have a fight where healers literally don't heal for two full minutes. Adding insult to injury, the portal mechanic has only a single deviation, which ruins the gimmick since you can easily predict it. Hence why even PF calls it "braindead strat." None of this talks about its enrage essentially boiling down to weak DPS check.

I wouldnt have a problem with this, if SE actually give us more casual level content and not put 90% of their budget into developing savage, that would be great.

Now we are down to 1 dungeon per patch from 2, this is a joke.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

I wouldnt have a problem with this, if SE actually give us more casual level content and not put 90% of their budget into developing savage, that would be great.

Now we are down to 1 dungeon per patch from 2, this is a joke.

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You do realize Savage and Normal mode are developed together, yes? The only extra development Savage gets is a bonus phase or door boss. 90% of their budget? Now that's laughable, especially when 5.2 was more or less dedicated to casual content in Ocean Fishing, Ishgard, Blue Mage and etc.

Dungeons have been reduced because people have complained they're boring. Yoshida outright acknowledged this; citing it the main reason they've decided to allocate those resources elsewhere. They certainly aren't going to Savage.

Glad I arrived after all these fun dungeons were already made.

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Originally Posted by Cirque-it

E5S = WAY too hard for a first boss end-tier savage encounter...

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I actually think E5S is fine for a starting boss. It's easy enough to get new raiders into the habit of how things go in the scene.

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E7S = Perfect. Its the pre-end boss to an end-tier, its beautifully designed, and is exactly what it should be.

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This fight is way too easy for a 3rd boss with really uninteresting mechanics and a lacking design.

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I just still think its a little bit hypocritical that a game whos ToS states you cant use 3rd party software has a boss thats impossible to clear without at least using a third party communications software (discord).....

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Discord is not looked down upon. It is used to do callouts made by your teammates and to explain mechanics during learning that you or someone may not understand. Furthermore I'd love for you to find any actual proof that SE doesn't want people using Discord.

I'm also gonna agree with the others and say that you are trolling and truly shame on you.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

I wouldnt have a problem with this, if SE actually give us more casual level content and not put 90% of their budget into developing savage, that would be great.

Now we are down to 1 dungeon per patch from 2, this is a joke.

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Eureka, Potd, Hoh, treasure Map there's plenty enough casual level content, the problem is since you can spam the their lipespan is short. Dungeon lifespan is probably just a week or two before people starg complaining just same old dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Miminming

Eureka, Potd, Hoh, treasure Map there's plenty enough casual level content, the problem is since you can spam the their lipespan is short. Dungeon lifespan is probably just a week or two before people starg complaining just same old dungeon.

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This is honestly an issue with the game as a whole. Very little of the content made offers any sort of longevity. Take Ocean Fishing. Neat idea but once you've obtained the minion and mount—neither being difficult—you have no reason to ever touch it again. Standard scrip turn ins net better numbers and don't have a two hour wait restriction.

What the dev team needs to focus on is developing content with a longer shelf life.

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Originally Posted by Cirque-it

After working on this content for months and currently being on E8S (stuck on Icelite dragonsong) this is my conclussion on the matter

E5S = WAY too hard for a first boss end-tier savage encounter... there are people in there that are new to FF14, new to raiding, new to MMO's in general... They just hit lvl 80 want to get into Savage raids, end up in a party finder E5S encounter and have a horrific experience.... E5S needs to be Nerfed like crazy!!

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If you're "new to level 80", you don't jump into Savage. You start working your way to Endgame by jumping into Extremes first. That's the stepping stone into Savage. Jumping in completely unprepared for something that actually punishes you for making mistakes (and even then, you can get away with a lot even in Savage) is only the fault of the player who jumped in expecting more faceroll content.

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E6S = Still a touch too hard for a second boss encounter, but pretty decently tuned in general. I think E6S should be as hard as E5S is now

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See above.

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E7S = Perfect. Its the pre-end boss to an end-tier, its beautifully designed, and is exactly what it should be

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In what universe is E7S a "beautifully designed" fight? As a healer, I literally do nothing but DPS for nearly two minutes straight.

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E8S = I dont really know yet because we're still working on the very last phase (Icelite song and Wyrms lament 2) I dont see how ANYONE can Party Finder this boss with a group, UNLESS every member of the group already has this boss on farm in their own respective static raid groups.... BUT... this being the very last boss of the raid tier, I guess its okay to force people into the social aspect of the game. (Either join a static, or dont clear this boss)

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E8S is honestly the only fight that really lives up to the name Savage, in my opinion. Most Savage fights now are shadows of what they used to be. That said, I do have my criticisms of Light Rampant as a mechanic - but so do most raiders.

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I just still think its a little bit hypocritical that a game whos ToS states you cant use 3rd party software has a boss thats impossible to clear without at least using a third party communications software (discord).....

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Discord isn't against the ToS lol. You're not thinking of the correct third-party tools. And it certainly isn't needed to clear any of the Savage fights. Really, the only fights that would really require Discord would be the Ultimate fights. Though, I'm sure really good players could manage that without voice chats.

E7S had potential to be a difficult fight, what with the portals and colours and such... but then it was a missed opportunity and is actually a pretty easy fight (so long as someone calls out the portals correctly).
E8S I just hate, but then I'm a melee DPS and frequently get unlucky with Light Rampant and Fake-Holy + Spiteful Dance (Shiva and Holy's on the edge and Spiteful Dance is out and then in). Really doesn't help my group doesn't do melee uptime strats, either (I'm the only melee, sans tanks). I dunno. I'd probably like E8S more if I wasn't a melee DPS .-.

Oh and the cutscene. SE stop with the cutscenes in Savage.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Discord isn't against the ToS lol. You're not thinking of the correct third-party tools. And it certainly isn't needed to clear any of the Savage fights. Really, the only fights that would really require Discord would be the Ultimate fights. Though, I'm sure really good players could manage that without voice chats.

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Yeah I think the whole mindset of "Discord or some other voice chat is required to play a game online with other people" is a bit laughable. Most of the instances I see people using it is mostly 1-2 people stating what is either blatantly obvious or something that shouldn't need to be said in the first place. You have those talking all the time that to me appear to just want to stroke their ego and others that appear to have mindless drone syndrome where they're incapable of doing something unless being lead through everything with a carrot. I've used voice chat with friends and such in games. However we never talk shop about mechanics or anything like that. The majority of it is random BS most often that has nothing to do with the game or in some cases random karaoke. This was during endgame content in said games. However I tend to be selective of actual friends preferring to have a small number of good ones as opposed to a large amount of ones there just for convenience. As such my friends are also able to actively think, analyze, and solve their own issues and adapt when needed. We very rarely have discussions on how to fix something or figure something out. We do however have a number of discussions on how to break something as that takes a bit more creativity in a lot of cases.

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Originally Posted by Miminming

Eureka, Potd, Hoh, treasure Map there's plenty enough casual level content, the problem is since you can spam the their lipespan is short. Dungeon lifespan is probably just a week or two before people starg complaining just same old dungeon.

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Eureka is left in dirt and empty, Potd and hoh is no longer developed and max lvl on second is 70 which takes alot from combat.
Treasure maps is something but nothing in comparison to savage/ultimate.
On top of that no hildibrand, pvp left in dirt too and empty,

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

You do realize Savage and Normal mode are developed together, yes? The only extra development Savage gets is a bonus phase or door boss. 90% of their budget? Now that's laughable, especially when 5.2 was more or less dedicated to casual content in Ocean Fishing, Ishgard, Blue Mage and etc.

Dungeons have been reduced because people have complained they're boring. Yoshida outright acknowledged this; citing it the main reason they've decided to allocate those resources elsewhere. They certainly aren't going to Savage.

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Could you tell me, what is a sense of doing normal mode anymore than 1 time? It provides abysmal and pointless gear progression, you are far better buying crafted gear.
Dungeons are boring, so cut it in half and make it even more boring so barely anyone is doing them, what a great change really.

SE handles casual content really poorly, they made all this crafting content and changes and turned it into something that is no longer worth doing. This game isnt for casuals who seek combat content, it is either for those who has hundreds of hours for a game in a month or for those who barely even understand how their skills work.
For people like me there is literally nothing to do between capping tomestones and doing boring maps, i have way more stuff to do in other mmorpgs in end game as some of them do provide different levels of difficulty and even allows for equipment progression by doing it.

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Originally Posted by Cirque-it

E5S = WAY too hard for a first boss end-tier savage encounter... there are people in there that are new to FF14, new to raiding, new to MMO's in general... They just hit lvl 80 want to get into Savage raids, end up in a party finder E5S encounter and have a horrific experience....

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Working as intended. If they just hit lv80, are new to MMO's, new to raiding and want to leap straight into Savage they're doing it all wrong. It's a good thing the first boss checks them there and says plainly "you aren't ready yet". They should clear Normal, then step to EX and become comfortable there before even thinking of Savage. It's just a shame Enix doesn't offer any warning or indication that Savage is difficult content that needs preparation and knowledge of your rotation before they have that rough PF experience. Imo that's where the problem lies. Even BA in Eureka had a warning pop up when you unlocked it.

I'd say Eden is tuned perfectly. Recently I took my casual FC (for people with Social anxiety), who most had no experience in Savage at all, into E5S. We're digging through E7 now and looking forward to E8. Progress isn't super fast but it's steady and great fun and filling the wait for the next patch nicely. Don't you own an FC yourself? What's stopping you doing the same instead of suffering through PF?

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Don't you own an FC yourself? What's stopping you doing the same instead of suffering through PF?

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i dont agree with nerfing savage or any of the anti-improvement shit the ff14 community goes through that makes them call everyone elitist for giving them advice or telling them to pull 2 groups of adds instead of 1 when they got both the experience and gear for it.

That being said this is a shitty excuse, least we forget making an fc isnt as convenient as going in pf , it was made after all for solo players, and a person may have joined an fc for various reasons besides raiding like real life friends or to chill (they can get attracted to raiding later) or it was an fc that helped them as newbies and now they dont feel like leaving .All these dont necessarily mean it would have people who hardcore raid.